Click for Laptop Battery specials!
Yosemite: The Blue and White PowerMac G3
Performance, Specs and Tips for B&W G3 Owners
Last Updated: 11/04/2000 (Related links)
Introduction: I created this page to serve as a 'catch-all' for info, specs and links on the B&W G3 Macs in case readers miss a post in the daily news. The related links articles have quite a few upgrades/guides and tips for owners of this model, but checking the main www.xlr8yourmac.com topics pages is always the best way to get the latest info and reviews/articles.
Listed below are links and information, issues and specs on many aspects of the B&W G3 model (some apply only to the revision 1 early models).
- Add a 2nd IDE drive to a B&W G3 Revision 2 (or G4 system)
- How to Install a G4 CPU Upgrade in B&W G3 including patch for firmware G4 block
(see the CPU Upgrades page for many G3 and G4 CPU upgrade reviews)
- IDE Dual Drive RAID Install How-To (hardware and software)
- B&W G3 Revision 2 Features
- Firmware Update Feedback Page (Updated 5/12/99)
- Exclusive First Look at the 3950U2B [64-Bit PCI, dual-channel U2 SCSI]
- Internal Modem Issues/Tips
- Rage128 Driver Update Feedback (1999 era page)
- B&W G3 Compatibility (most are solved now)
- B&W G3 Performance (Benchmarks and Apps testing)
- B&W G3 Gaming Performance
(1999 page - see video card reviews on main site or seach the FPS database for current results)
- B&W G3 Speed Settings [Ref. Only - Voids Warranty!]
- IDE Slave Drive Upgrade [Rev 1 Systems - Read warnings on corruption issues]
- B&W G3 Drive Mtg Kit: Illustrated instl. guide
- Overclocking Results (select BW G3 as the Mac model)
- Hi-Val 7-Beam 52X CDROM Review (6.7MB/sec in B&W!)
For other upgrade reviews compatible with the B&W G3, see the main www.xlr8yourmac.com topic links (on SCSI, IDE, Firewire, Video cards and more)
Yosemite Tips, Info and Specs:
The B&W G3 Compatibility page has a tip (fix) for owners with drag and drop problems in Virtual PC.
IDE Drives/Data Corruption with * revision 1 * B&W G3s: (Note: If your B&W G3 is a revision 2, it has a revised IDE chip that doesn't have the data corruption issue with aftermarket drives.) The B&W G3 Compatibility page has been updated with a note on addon/addin IDE drives having data corruption problems with the revision 1 (early model) B&W G3s. (This is due to the IDE chip on the motherboard of the rev 1 models- see the rev2/new features page for how to tell if your IDE chip is the revised one.) I verified that this is true on my rev 1 B&W G3 system as well (OS 8.6, Firmware update 1.02, WD Expert 18GB drive - with and w/o ATA66 mode enabled on the drive). The only solution for the Expert drive was to use the TurboMax PCI IDE card (any Mac PCI IDE card also solves the problem of course).
Update: IntechUSA.com's Speedtools drivers have an adjustable driver mode to address the rev 1 B&W G3 IDE chip issue (at the cost of performance) as does FWB.com's driver. Some have said that OS X also detects the rev 1 IDE chip and sets a lower-speed driver mode but I don't know if that's true personally. See the IDE articles page, Drive Compatibility Database and most importantly, the Rev 1 B&W G3 Slave Drive article for more info. (rev 1 problems first noted in spring 1999)
Hi-Val 7-Beam 52X CDROM Review - I saw sustained rates of up to 6.7MB/sec in B&W, with no spinup delays or noise like the current design CDrom drives. *Update* - There are some warts however, some readers reported drives that failed early, or had clunking that I did not see here (my drive is still running, but I did have a new 72x model fail within a week). Readers say the current 72x model, depending on what firmware version is in the drive, may not read some game CDs like Tombraider III and Diablo II. (No mac firmware update/flasher exists as of summer 2000).
OS 8.6: Summary of Compat. Issues and Fixes: I've created a page listing all reported compatibility issues and reported fixes.
OpenGL 1.0 has been released.
1.1 ROM Upate: David sent a note that Apple has released a B&W G3 Firmware update 1.1 for those owners that had problems installing the 1.02 update. Note that the code is the same as the 1.02 update so unless you had problems with that version you do not need to apply this update.
B&W G3 ROM Update: Apple has posted a G3 Firmware Update that is said to improve performance of PCI cards, Firewire ports and minor improvements in OS X Server. The download is available at Apple's G3 Firmware Update page Dan Knight wrote with a tip on the install:"Power Mac G3 Firmware Update 1.0.2. Instructions disagree on procedure. Read Me file indicates you should hold the programmer's button until the tone is finished (step 5). Program's internal instructions say to release the button when you first hear the tone. Waiting until the tone is done did the job for me."
3950U2B 64Bit PCI SCSI: Read my Exclusive First Look at the 3950U2B - Adaptec's OEM Mac 64-BIT PCI dual-channel Ultra2 SCSI card.
Kenneth Gan reported in the 4/16/99 main page news that his new B&W G3 addendum booklet notes the hard drive tray now supports 1.6" (40.6mm) drives. His machine had a 3/24/99 mfg date label on the box.
The Internal Modem Issues/Tips and Compatibility pages have updates including a new TIL that may address the FaxSTF crashing issues (removing FaxSTF has solved many reader reported modem/connection problems as noted at the main site news page. Also a fix for Tumbuktu problems.
B&W G3 Drive Mtg Kit: I've posted an illustrated guide to installing Proline's B&W G3 Hard Drive Bracket Kit. It's a low-cost solution to the >1.5-inch tall drive problem affordably. [3/31/99]
FireWire & U2 SCSI Update: As noted in Tuesday's News. Apple has Firewire 2.0 and OEM U2 SCSI Firmware updates. Owners of external or UW drives attached to the OEM U2 card should read the warning from a reader posted on the Compat. page. [3/30/99]
[3/22/99] - I've started a new Internal Modem Issues/Tips page with feedback on disconnect problems and promising test results with different modem scripts.
The Compatibility page has an update on Quark issues.
B&W G3 RAID Tests: Adaptec 2940UW firmware 3.0 vs 4.1 - A reader sends test data that indicates that sometimes the latest is not the best, at least for RAID in a B&W G3.
SCSI Card Firmware Updates: The Compatibility page has updates on new firmware for ATTO (ExpressPCI UW and U2) and Adaptec SCSI cards (2940UW final v4.1, 3940UW v4.1b1) for B&W G3 compatibility.
B&W G3/400 vs PII 450: Earll Murman sent a note that PC Magazine has a review of the new Mac vs a Pentium II 450. In the Filemaker Pro/Word Tests The G3 won the Filemaker tests but trailed in the Word tests (Due to the coding of Mac Office98 my PB G3/250 vs Solo PII/266 tests showed similar results in Word and esp. Excel). The B&l;W G3 also won the most of Photoshop filter tests, sometimes by dramatic margins (my Photoshop 5 Performance page shows similar results with even a dual PII 450 NT box). The PC (w/Riva TNT based video card) won the Quake Timedemo tests. I don't know how they got the 90+FPS Timedemo scores on the B&W G3, as under Rave Quake my 640x480 scores (RAVE flames and shadows enabled) were in the mid-50's as shown on my Yosemite Game Performance page. They used 1.08.2 Rave Quake according to the article, I used the latest 1.09 version). Perhaps they did not have flames and shadows enabled. You know Apple's on a comeback when PC magazines are reviewing Macs.
FireWire Hard Drives: VST Technology has a line of FireWire hard drives due to ship in April 1999. Based on the technical specifications, these appear to be based on notebook drives (for lower power/small form factor) so don't expect performance to be as good as the internal G3 IDE drives. Specs page at this time shows a max xfer rate of 5.5MB/sec (4200 rpm drive), typical read rates at 4.6MB/sec, typical writes at 3.5MB/sec. Prices were listed as $299, $399, and $499 for 2, 4, and 6GB resp. [3/8/99]
The Rage128 Feedback and Compatibility pages have an update on enabling Virtual Memory to solve problems with the ATI extension not loading. Internal modem owners reported that this was the only way to fix the problem at the current time. Watch the main site news page daily for other B&W G3 reports and related software updates in the sidebar.
The Rage128 Driver Update Feedback has updates on more issues and a possible solution for the pausing in 3D apps and games.
RAGE 128 Updated Drivers: They're finally released! - click here to get it (MacBinary 485K or Binhex 660K). See the Apple Updates page for more info. I hope this solves some of the software issues noted on the Yosemite Compatibility page.
If you missed it from the main site daily news, I posted a new article on IDE Slave Drive Upgrade. Note: this may void your warranty and offically is not supported by Apple.
The Yosemite Compatiblity page has a lot of updates including new ATTO PCI SCSI firmware.
The Yosemite Performance page has updated info with results of both Write-Through (default) and Copy-Back Cache mode tests.
The Yosemite Compatibilty page has more info on the Virtual Game Station (Playstation Emulator) with a possible fix (modified CD/DVD driver) and a reader report of problems with the Ult. Rez.
The Yosemite Compatibilty page has more info on the USB cable/port issue (very common), and my success story with the updated Jackhammer PCI SCSI card with new firmware. There's also a note there on the Adaptec 2906 (narrow only SCSI card) updates and a reader report of VGS (Playstation emulator) problems.
Yosemite in Black: Don't like that Bondi Blue? Frank Bernier sent a URL to a page that shows how to paint your Yosemite Black. We both think it actually looks a lot better in black and gray (honest -take a look at the black and gray version).
The Yosemite Compatibilty page has an update with Networking/Ethernet problem reports, solutions to Virtual PC 2.x problems, more Media 100 info (compatibility problems noted), another audio card report and a TIL on ADB AppleDesign keyboard issues.
The Yosemite Compatibilty page has an update on more audio card issues, success in adding a 2nd IDE (Slave) hard disk, and USB Cable problems.
Yosemite L2 Cache mode: Michiro Isobe wrote to say that his tests show the Yosemite's backside cache is running in 'write-through' mode vs the faster 'copy-back' mode.
Yosemite Beep Codes: The latest Macworld tip of the day had a good note on startup error beep codes for the Yosemite by Chris Breen :
- 1 beep = No RAM has been detected.
- 2 beeps = The RAM is incompatible with your Mac.
- 3 beeps = None of the RAM banks passed the memory tests.
- 4 beeps = Bad checksum for the remainder of the boot ROM.
- 5 beeps = Bad checksum for the ROM boot block.
ZIF Upgrades and Yosemite: Just a reminder - as noted previously here fixed speed ZIF upgrades for older macs will not work with the Yosemite due to the fixed bus speed to CPU speed ratio and the fact the yosemite bus speed is 100MHz vs 66MHz in the beige G3's that the ZIF upgrades were designed for. For instance a 400MHz fixed speed ZIF for the beige G3 would be set to run at 650MHz in the Yosemite since the fixed 6.5X ratio would be trying to run the CPU at 100Mhz x 6.5.
Adjustable speed models should work if the adjustment knob does not contact the ATI card, which could happen on some early models I'm told. Some adjustable ZIFs use jumpers to set speeds (like the XLR8 ZIF) so that fit should not be an issue. Later model PowerForce ZIFs also clear the ATI card in the Yosemite I'm told. If in doubt contact your ZIF vendor to see if your model will work/fit in the new Blue and White G3s.
Yosemite OEM Rage128: After looking closely at the Rage128 card in my Yosemite it does have dual notches (5V and 3V PCI). It is possible to design a card for both 3V and 5V PCI use but it remains to be seen if retail cards like the ATI Rage128 Orion, VR and Nexus will have this capability.
The Yosemite Compatibility page has updates on the Fuse capture card (new drivers), Media 100, Iomega Buz, Advansys and Formac SCSI cards.
Yosemite Bezels/Faceplates:Yisroel Jacobs sent a note that Proline has posted a page listing Bezels and faceplate options for the new G3 macs at: http://www.proline.com/Blue%20G3.html. I've written them to obtain a ZIP kit for an upgrade article on my DVD/350 (no ZIP) article. Proline made the 4-drive internal RAID bracket/fan kit used in my 8600 Internal Raid article.
The Yosemite Compatibility page has an update for Korg 1212 audio card and Fuse video capture card (updated drivers) and a report from an IDE based system owner on RagePro VR card success (a SCSI based owner reported failures of Rage/RagePro PCI cards).
The Yosemite Speed Settings page has been updated for info on the jumper settings for bus speeds.
I've updated the Yosemite Performance page with test results in Electric Image, Bryce2, After Effects 3.1 and Infini-D 4.1 (comparison scores to other systems/upgrades included).
Yosemite and ZIF Upgrades: Several readers have asked if ZIF upgrades for the original G3 are compatible with the new Yosemite models. As reported at my Yosemite page last week, Powerlogix stated theirs were. However you'd have to allow for the faster bus speed and set the ratio to 4x on the PF ZIF upgrade - as 100mhz bus x 4 = 400Mhz. The manuals, etc. were written with 66mhz bus speeds in mind.Fixed speed ZIFs will not be compatible due to the 100MHz (vs 66MHz) bus speed in the Yosemite (too high a CPU speed since the fixed ZIFs assumed 66MHz bus speeds).
JackHammer PCI SCSI Update!: Thanks to my friends at MacGurus , who sent word Hammerstorage has updated Jackhammer firmware for the yosemite at: http://www.hammerstorage.com/service/mac_os/JACK/PCIJACK/yosemite.html (Page was not responding this morning)
I've added a Yosemite Performance page with Macbench 5 test results of 350-450MHz models and comparisons to other Macs. It will be expanded in the future to show application test results as well.
[1/14/99] G3/400 Photoshop Performance:I've updated the Photoshop 5 Performance page to include results with the Yosemite overclocked to 400MHz.
CPU Speed Settings Explained: I've posted a page of Lab Notes: Yosemite Speed Settings with details on the jumper block settings and results of tests with a 350 and 400MHz system at 400 and 450MHz respectively. (This is a warranty-voiding procedure and I do not recommend it. It may cause loss of data or hardware failures.)
Yosemite and Miles SCSI Card Last night I installed a Miles PCI SCSI card (bios v1.06) in the Yosemite to allow using a external SCSI ZIP drive. The disk refused to mount at ID 6, but did mount with the ZIP set to ID 5 (might be a bad switch in the ZIP drive). More strange is the fact I could not run any Rave games with the card installed - Rave Quake, Unreal and Tomb Raider II (all run fine before installing the card) failed to detect a Rave compatible card. Zapping the Pram did not help. Immediately after removing the card Rave games ran fine. Bizarre.
[1/13/99] As reported on today's main page news, I received my 350/DVD machine yesterday. The Lightwave 3D ADB dongle works fine. I'll be posting more info in addition to my initial comments in the news tomorrow.
Apple TIL Updates: Today's main news page has daily Apple's TIL updates link which today included TIL 58241 describing three different USB keyboards Apple has shipped since the first iMac. The TIL warns only the latest 'blueberry' model should be used with the Blue and White G3 (Yosemite). Also in the updates is a link to the CPU specifications for Yosemite. More detail is provided in Motorola's and IBM's PowerPC pages.
Frank put together a page comparing Unreal screenshots of the OEM Rage128 vs Voodoo2. I hope to have an update soon with my comments and possibly tests with the latest beta driver. My Yosemite 350MHz/DVD arrived today!
iMac/Yosemite Plaintalk Enabler: As noted here last year, MacSpeech is an independent company working on Mac speech recognition products. They also are the sole source (to my knowledge) of the iMac and Yosemite Plaintalk enabler.
A reader sent a link to an Developer Note for anyone who has any hardware or software compatibility concerns about the new G3s.
USB for instance seems to have been modified slightly and may render some older USB devices unusable. DMA cards/devices MUST make the PrepareMemoryForIO call in order to work now. [Thanks Dave]
More ADB Dongle Feedback:" though i dont have a media 100 to play with or my own blue g3 what i did do was to help configure and uhmm test my good friends today....so i brought some toys after effects pro bundle, commotion, and electric image all dongled all played nicely with one another....could it be that the above post is more about an os 8.5 issue with hardware keys from different manufacturers not working well/at all together....all the keys i used today are microguard keys. i want to say that media 100's is a rainbow key or something like that...
Yosemite Ram Pricing: Ryan Tokarek sent an interesting story of Ram pricing differences between PC100 and RAM labelled for the new G3's. As noted below in the RAM section, I had no doubt that PC100 DIMMs working in the new Macs (as he proved). It seems however that some vendors may charge more for DIMMs labelled to work in the new Macs.
More On DV Capture:" Hi Mike,
I'll make this one quick. You must use Premeire 5.1 with the new Macs' 4.2.1 or 5.0 will NOT work. Also Moto DV will not work the built in Fire Wire Port of the New Macs, but Edit DV Unplugged will. You might also want to suggest to the reader to pick up the Owners manual for the New machine, all the answers are in there.
Rage128 3D Hardware Accel. Modes: After conversations with ATI, they have verified that the display modes listed on the Apple Developer Note (updated 1/5/99) are incorrect, as the Rage128 supports hardware accelerated 3D at modes as high as 1600x1200. ATI has notified Apple of the error and the page should be updated soon.
The developer note info on Z-Buffer depth and 3D acceleration do not match the specs on the retail 16 MB version at: http://www.atitech.com/technology/hardware/rage128.html. For more info on retail versions of ATI's Rage128 based Mac cards see their Mac products page. Even the retail versions of the low end Orion card shows a 32-Bit Z-buffer for instance.
Rage128 - Slower RAMDAC? Often OEM versions of graphics cards have slower RAMDACs than the full retail model (I've seen this in Matrox OEM PC cards, and others). Although I thought the Rage128 had an integrated RAMDAC, this developers docs indicates the Yosemite OEM Rage128 may also have a slower RAMDAC than the full retail version (the RAMDAC controls the screen refresh rate range - slower ones will have lower vertical refresh rates, at least at higher resolutions) [Update - this is not true per ATI, it seems the docs are in error]" Graphics Controller IC:The ATI 3D RAGE 128 GL graphics controller IC on the accelerated graphics card contains the logic for the video display. The ATI 3D RAGE 128 GL graphics controller includes the following features:
advanced 128-bit rendering engine architecture optimized to support high-speed SDRAM video memory display memory controller, built-in drawing coprocessor, video scaler, color space converter, clock generator, and true color palette video DAC (digital-to-analog converter) video CLUT (color lookup table) hardware graphics acceleration with a 16-bit Z-buffer [No 32-Bit Z-Buffer? - the Rage128 retail version has a 32-Bit Z-Buffer-Mike] accelerated QuickDraw 3D rendering up to six times that of software-only acceleration true color palette DAC supporting pixel clock rates to 200 MHz for 1600 by 1200 resolution at 90 Hz graphics and video line buffer for superior video scaling and playback quality hardware cursor up to 64 x 64 x 2 DDC1 and DDC2B+ for plug-and-play monitor support graphics control accessible through the QuickDraw, QuickDraw 3D, QuickDraw 3D RAVE, and QuickTime APIs
A separate data bus handles data transfers between the ATI 3D RAGE 128 GL graphics controller and the display memory. The display memory data bus is 64 bits wide, and all data transfers consist of 64 bits at a time. The RAGE IC breaks each 64-bit data transfer into several pixels of the appropriate size for the current display mode--4, 8, 16, 24, or 32 bits per pixel.
The ATI 3D RAGE 128 GL graphics controller IC uses several clocks. Its transactions are synchronized with the PCI bus. Data transfers from the frame-buffer RAM are clocked by the MEM_CLK signal. Data transfers to the CLUT and the video output are clocked by the dot clock, which has a different rate for different display monitors.
The 2D graphics accelerator is a fixed-function accelerator for rectangle fill, line draw, polygon fill, panning/scrolling, bit masking, monochrome expansion, and scissoring."
Here's some info on the Paddington I/O controller and Burgandy Sound chip in the new G3:" Paddington I/O Controller IC:The Paddington IC is an enhanced I/O controller and DMA engine for Power Macintosh computers using the PCI bus architecture. The Paddington IC in the Power Macintosh G3 is an improved version of the Paddington IC used in the iMac computer. The primary change is improved performance with 100 Mbps Ethernet. The changes are for internal operation and are transparent to software.
Paddington also provides power-management control functions for energy saving features included on Power Macintosh computers. The Paddington IC is connected to the secondary PCI bus and uses the 33 MHz PCI bus clock.
The Paddington IC includes circuitry equivalent to the Ethernet, ATA-3, SCC, and VIA controller ICs. The functional blocks in the Paddington IC include the following:
systemwide interrupt handling ATA-3 interface controller sound control logic and buffers 10/100 twisted-pair Ethernet controller
The Paddington IC provides bus interfaces for the following I/O devices:
56K modem card VIA system interface to the Cuda IC Burgundy sound input and output IC 64 KB nonvolatile RAM control
The Paddington IC also contains a serial interface and sound control logic for the Burgundy sound IC. The optional 56 Kbps modem uses the serial interface.
Burgundy Sound IC:The Burgundy sound IC combines a 16-bit digital sound encoder and decoder (codec). The Burgundy IC has the following sound controller features:
Digitizes analog inputs with internal analog to digital converters (A/Ds). Creates analog outputs with internal digital to analog converters (DACs). Facilitates digital audio routing between the inputs and outputs and CPU. Provides digital gain, fade, balance, and mute controls. Provides digital tone control. For additional information about the audio features, see Sound System."
Improved Rage 128 Drivers: See the Sunday morning update to the Yosemite Gaming Performance. page for important info on new drivers mentioned in a mail to me from ATI's 3D driver guru, Chris Bentley.
More on SCSI Cards: [Update- other than failures to boot from attached disks, I have recently received reports of otherwise OK operation with Adaptec 2940UW (3.0 bios or later), Advansys UW cards, and one JazJet owner. Remember to ZAP the PRAM on the first boot with a new SCSI card installed, especially if a drive is attached to the card." Hi Mike,
Regarding SCSI cards, As has been confirmed by Adaptec, their current cards will not work. Worse, when I tried to put in the 2940, the machine would not boot any more at all [He needs to ZAP the PRAM, see the FAQ-Mike]. I'll try the Initio card tomorrow [See update below on new firmware for Yosemite-Mike]. I understand they will need a firmware update to support boot drives. If it simply runs to let me connect external devices it would already be great news. The standard SCSI card in the 400 seems to be rather delicate as far as external devices are concerned. I was unable to copy my VPC drive images from an external Jaz drive, the machine locked up regularly about 1/3 through the copy. When I moved the Jaz to a 7500, they copied all right.
I also got a Keyspan USB-serial adapter and tried to connect my modem. I have not been able to get it to work so far.
Yosemite G3/400 Unreal performance: Check out the new Yosemite Game Performance page for results of tests in Unreal with identical INI files and my analysis of the results.
More DV/Firewire feedback: In response to a Firewire/DV problem reported earlier, Dan Baldwin replied:" Hi Mike--
We have successfully been capturing DV from our Sony VX700 camcorder to our new G3 400mhz using Premiere 5.1-- We haven't tried it with Premiere 4.0 and probably won't. We just followed the tips in the DV video article which is in the Firewire folder on the new G3s.
Dan Baldwin "
Pete McKeeman wrote that the issue may not be the hardware but the OS version. He said after installing OS 8.5.1. his TRV-9/Adaptec 8945/Premiere combo required a Premiere upgrade to v. 5.1 (As well as a new Adaptec update).
Booting from 3rd Party PCI SCSI Cards: Doug Godfrey writes:" According to Apple's info on the New World Rom and OF 3.0.x on the Yosimite system you cannot boot the Mac OS from any SCSI drive attached to a SCSI card if the SCSI card does not have a Open Firmware Rom. All existing Mac SCSI cards have a PCI rom and a Mac OS rom but do not have a Open Firmware Rom.
This causes the same problem for Linux and Mac OS X. Open Firmware requires an initialization driver and I/O driver written if Forth to be present on the card's Rom. Certain pointers in the PCI Rom structure point to the Open Firmware Driver. The Built-in SCSI controllers on all Macintosh systems have a Open Firmware driver (except the 6400 whose driver dosn't work).
The New World Rom does a 2 step boot process where it uses the Open Firmware Driver to load the Mac OS Rom image. If there is no Open Firmware driver then the Mac OS image cannot be loaded and the system won't boot.
All existing Mac SCSI cards lack the Open Firmware Driver in their Rom. [read on for at least one exception-Mike]
How about starting a online petition to ask the various SCSI card vendors to write an Open Firmware driver and provide a firmware updater. Doug Godfrey
See the Initio Miles/Miles Ultra2 note below. They seem to be ahead of the game. I suspect Adaptec's v4.0 bios may also have the fix. Since Apple has used OEM versions of ATTO's SCSI cards in the past I hope they will post an update to retail card firmware soon. As I mentioned at the main site - this is what I mean about early adopters and how for some businesses that can't afford a disruption in their work output, an upgrade often makes more sense than a new system.
DVD RAM/GigaBit Ethernet: A reader reports that the promised DVD RAM drives (writeable DVD)[$550 extra] are Gigabit Ethernet [$1000 extra] are now options at the Apple Store. Main order options page says that DVD RAM is planned for Feb and Gigabit Ethernet in March. If that's true then it may not be wise (or possible) to actually order those options at this time, as I was not allowed to order the SCSI Card (phone order) since it would not be available until late January. This I thought was odd (as did the order person) as my system delivery date was expected to be "in February" but the salesperson said my order would not be accepted in the computer with the $49 scsi card option checked. He and I both wondered what happens on the internet orders when that option was selected.
Initio Miles/Miles2 SCSI Cards: See the Compatibility page for a formal announcement and a $50 upgrade program for Miles cards shipped before 1/15/99. Miles U2 cards will have a free firmware update. (My guess is that the Miles cards originally did not have a large enough ROM to hold the new firmware)" Hi Mike,
Remember me? Did your graphs for Raid a while back...
Anyway, I'm the proud owner of a Blue G3 350/DVD std configuration. I don't so much lament the loss of the zip, but the modem seems to be a hinderance. Having to do e-mail from another machine. Anyway, it looks like the modems are on generally short supply.
I do have a problem which I'd be interested in whether anyone else is experiencing. I cannot move DV from my Sony TRV9 into the Blue G3 via the built-in Firewire. I previously was using a Radius MotoDV card and software. This still works when I move the Radius Firewire card into the G3. This seems superfluous, due to the built-in Firewire. The Apple notes say to use Premier, and I've tried that (version 4.2.1), but it does not see the camera. The MotoDV software, without the MotoDV card also does not see the camera when connected to the Apple Firewire ports...
is anyone successfully moving DV into the G3 via the built-in Firewire? [if so please contact me-Mike]
Many thanks. I believe your site continues to be one of the best sources of real, experimentally verified information. Keep up the good work.
-- Glen Speckert
If you have a workaround or comments on other FireWire issues please contact me.
G3 Modem Details: Joseph Veit wrote in response to rumors the new G3 internal modem used the CPU as as a DSP. According to the Apple TIL 58188 it's the same modem as the iMac and PowerBook G3. That may not be good news, as I hope it doesn't have the same disconnect problems many (including me) have reported on those machines.
I hear that some early Apple store buyers of 400MHz G3's are saying they recently got mails saying their orders are due on 1/14. I ordered the day of the Keynote (2PM eastern time) and my order was still shown as not being built (step 2 of 5) when I cancelled it yesterday.
More on Midi via FireWire or USB: Thad Brown, my Audio Guru sent some promising news:-The next NAMM (North American Music Market, Not Another Music Messe, Need Another Murky Membrane . . .) show is at the end of this month. NAMM is the Comdex of pro and semi-pro audio instruments and recording gear. Expect many product announcements then reagarding USB/Firewire audio products.
-USB has plenty of bandwidth for MIDI. Lots. Some manufacturers may go straight to Firewire so that they can do audio and MIDI on the same cable, but USB has much more bandwidth than current serial, and that can get over a hundred channels of MIDI.
-Apple has not yet implememted audio over USB for Macs. This is not the fault of the manufacturers, and they all have said basically the same thing, but sorta off the record. "When it's ready from Apple, we're ready to do it."
-Yamaha is pushing their own supuerset of Firewire products and enhancements specifically for pro audio. They are not a company to be toyed with, so we will see much more about this soon I am sure.
The Memory section has been updated to reflect a correction - according to the developer note the Yosemite does take advantage of lower latency (2CAS) DIMMS, but can't do it on a per-slot basis. Memory timing is set by the slowest DIMM in the system.
Bruce Modell sent a note on USB modem drivers [not verified - and these companies may offer drivers in the future]:" Modems: Neither the MultiTech USB (128968) or the 3Com USB (108985) modems have drivers that work! There is an internal modem port on these machines, but we have nothing that will fit! The best solution that we have so far is to sell the Addonics WebShuttle (122280) 10BT to Serial Internet Sharing Device and an external serial modem like the Hayes 56k ext (110198)... The only other thing that you will need is a CAT5 Crossover Cable (086875) or a hub. The web shuttle is $141 and a 56k ext Hayes modem is $62 with purchase of a G3 ( new model) "
Has anyone verified if the $99.95 BestData V.90 USB Modem (listed below) from MacConnection works? If so, please contact me.
G3/DVD: Several readers have asked and as I expected, there is no TV out on the DVD option.
Why is Yosemite 300MHz slower?: Several readers noted the MacBench scores for the new PowerMac G3/300 were lower than the previous G3/300 model. Reason? the new G3/300 has only 512K of backside cache - the old model had 1MB. 350 and 400MHz models have 1MB of cache.
Audio Specs: Features and specs are listed at this Apple TIL.
Advansys SCSI/G3/VM issues: A reader replied to the post below on low cost Advansys (ie JazJet) SCSI cards as being one way to add SCSI to the Yosemite. His PF G3 upgraded Mac had some VM compatibility issues with the card however:" I saw a recommendation for PCI advansys cards on the site. Well, one problem with the advansys, a g3 card, and vm is if the vm storage file is on an advansys-controlled drive and vm is on, you will experience type 113 errors. This occurs with RamDoubler and VM.
No idea if this is related to the retrospect/g3 card problem or not, tho. Manny Veloso "
$99.95 USB Modem: As noted below - BTO models only have the internal modem but USB modems are one option for others. I'd mentioned that 3COM has had a USB modem on the market for some time (mac drivers status unknown). Barry Martin wrote that the new MacConnection catalog lists a BestData USB 56kFlex/V.90 external modem for $99.95.
ZIF Upgrades: I asked PowerLogix if their ZIF upgrades are compatible with the new G3's and they said yes. Their 400MHz ZIF upgrade (reviewed here) is therefore an upgrade path for lower speed models. (Prices will drop in the future I'm sure - just good to know the ZIF module is the same as the older G3 line.
Speed Adjustments: [Update - I posted the world's first page (to my knowledge) on Yosemite Speed settings a few weeks back] Kevin I. Glattfelder reports there is a "warranty void" warning tape and jumper block on the Yosemite, similar to that on the previous G3 models. I wonder if the same jumper block settings apply. I'll be exploring that more when mine arrives. See below for updated Modem information also.
Audio/Midi Limitations: Thad Brown, Guru of our Audio Column writes with some important warnings on Yosemite's audio/midi capability:Mike,
Here's the update on audio/MIDI on Yosemite
Reader Gary Zimmerman pointed me to some links in the developer section that the audio inputs have changed very little for Yosemite. It's still 16 bit 44.1 kHz converters, with an input on a stereo eighth inch jack. Hey, but it will still run your plain talk mic. In all seriousness, this audio hardware is essentially what was in Macs two or three years ago, which is sort of a drag, since everything else has been updated since. Word to Apple, just put a simple S/PDIF digital audio I/O on the boxes, or cut some deal to add it real cheap as an option. That simple change will turn those Yosemite boxes into the best choice for home audio anywhere.
On the MIDI front, Opcode announced some time ago that they will support transfer of MIDI data over USB in their industry standard OMS spec. That said there is still no way to use that. A source tells me that a well known MIDI hardware vendor is planning a solution for current serial based MIDI interfaces, but this is just rumor. As far as I know there is no reliable way to get MIDI data in and out of a new G3 box. I would advise buyers to be very careful if they plan to use the new G3 for music. It will probably be just fine down the road, but I have never been a fan of buying expensive things because they will work later on.
On the horizon, Firewire has been touted as the protocol/cable that will some day carry hundreds of channels of audio, MIDI, control data and also keep your toast from getting burned all at the same time. Sad to say but as of now, if you had to do an audio MIDI/project today, the iMac and Yosemite are just not options."
Expansion Options/Issues: Some insider info on expanding the Yosemite:
"On the customization and expansion fronts....
I can get a zip bezel and I can add ATAPI zip drives to the front of the Yosemite
That's it for removable media.... aside from replacing the CD/DVD drive. The area above the CD is air but the irregular shape prevents easily doing removable media there (and you would have to route a cable a long way)
Below the CD is only a small area appropriate almost exclusively to a Zip drive. you could fit a 3.5 or jaz there but it would be tight, cabling should make it ATA and I don't think ATA jaz drives are abundant or too supported on the mac right now.
It looks like a lot of people are going to be springing for those SCSI cards, perhaps expansion chassis as well... A gigabit Ethernet card needs a 64 bit slot (it would be really bandwidth starved on 32bit) An expansion chassis also needs a 64 bit slot for the same reason. some of the apple options are also going to need an internal PCI slot.
expansion in the Yosemite goes like this to get lots of stuff.... and effectively use bandwidth..
CPU | | | ---> | | | | ---------> | | | | ---------> | | | \ | | | \ | | | \ | | | \ | Prime Second \ Expansion 66MhzPCI 64bit PCI \ Chassis (already used valuable \ (keep your old with ATI Card) Bandwith \ Drives and cards here) \ \ built in I/O Does not like a lot of current Devices
Add this to the bandwith complexities of the Motherboard itself (it has grackle, paddington and DEC PCI bridge chips arbitrating) and the situation looks complicated.
I wasn't so much complaining at the bandwidth but at all the choices. The Yosemite appears to have the potential to have a lot of bandwidth I'm just mindboggled as a service person who has to figure out viable upgrade options (and connectivity options) as well as trouble shoot problems.
Andy Ithanko wrote about JADTy connectivity. (Just Another Damm Thing to go wrong). I am terrified of the serial/scsi/local talk adapters plus troubles implementing firewire.
I've had a ton of troubles explaining iMac Updates and driver updates to the consumer crowd who just want to print on USB. Thankfully we did not have to explain Momentum's iPrint. Now I'm going to face the content creation market (who can be much more demanding on a bad day) and explain to them many new technologies as well as how many adapters they need for their "dependable" LaserWriter plus. I'm going to explain I can only add a zip drive inside the case and please wait while external firewire devices are developed for the market or buy a SCSI card. I'm going to watch some of there faces drop as I add up all the cards and adapters they need and be called the next day when one thing or another does not work.
Remember a 6400 could have a jaz, zip or CDR added to the top bay. The blue and white? a zip only."
I can't comment on Yosemite IO performance (yet) but remember that PC motherboards have dual IDE, dual USB, dual serial, PS2, up to 6 PCI slots, onboard U2 scsi and in some cases 100-baseT all on the motherboard. It remains to be seen how the serial FireWire performs with many devices attached.
Benchmarks: For a complete list of MacBench and Game benchmarks - see http://www.apple.com/powermac/benchmark.html
Myth II Smokes on Yosemite: Kelly McDowell wrote with a link to an Apple page showing Myth II running 75 fps on the G3/400, 47% faster than the PII 450 with Voodoo2. See http://www.apple.com/powermac/splash/crush.html for details
Audio Issues/Questions: From our latest Audio Column Issue #30. Thad Brown asks some important questions on Yosemite's audio capability:"Could somebody who is at MWSF PLEASE ask an Apple rep about the new G3 boxes and tell me about the audio built in? I'm not kidding, at all, I have yet to see even a single word about audio on those new boxes. I can see from pictures of the back that it will include the often inconvenient eighth inch mini jack. But will there be an A/V model with RCA or even balanced inputs? Are the converters 16 bit or 24 bit? Sample rates?
Also, before you go buy a Yosemite box for pro audio work, take note that there appear to no serial ports of any kind, so MIDI will be an adventure. In fact, for people with a couple of Studio 5s or MTP boxes, that may just be a deal breaker. Any info would be welcome."
Note there are USB to Serial adapters that might be one solution. On the PC there are I think.
Lack of built-in SCSI: If you don't want to use up a PCI slot for the $49 SCSI option (not avail. until late Jan.) and only need slower device support, a USB to SCSI adapter may be the solution. http://www.2ndwave.com/ has a USB to SCSI adapter for a list price of $79, available late January according to their web site.
MacBench 5 Scores: Some may be disappointed in the CPU score of the new models, in the 1330 range which is no better than current G3's with a 400MHz ZIF upgrade (see my PowerForce G3/400 ZIF review). As I've noted in several links in the G3-ZONE news, bus speed does not really seem to boost preformance in most applications, and certainly not in MacBench. However Photoshop and games are areas where bus speed does seem to matter. The highest PSBench and game framerates I've ever recorded were both on Apple G3 based systems. Bus speed and improved PCI performance over older Macs is the reason why. Remember that MacBench is just one benchmark. Tweakers are curious to know if there are motherboard jumper settings (bus speed/CPU ratio) for overclocking (warranty voiding!) I'm sure. I'll explore this in detail as soon as my system arrives.
Lightwave 5.6 OpenGL Performance:" Hi Mike,
Just wanted to let you know that the new Hardware accelerated Mac Lightwave can be seen at MacWorld in the ATI booth running on a RAGE 128 (FAAAAASSSTTT) and should be released very soon.
Lightwave 3D Engineer"
Game Performance: I've gotten a report that Rave Quake on the Yosemite 350MHz model delivered 45 fps on the Timedemo demo1 test [note - the new Rage128 beta drivers delivered 55.3fps at 640x480, all features on -see the Yosemite Game Performance Page for more details]. That's pretty impressive based on framerates I've seen even with the Game Wizard Voodoo2 which delivered 38.4 fps with a G3 CPU card running 322MHz with a 221MHz backside cache speed.
Video PCI Card Slot: The 32-Bit, 66MHz PCI Slot that houses the Rage128 Graphics card (16MB SDRAM, not faster SGRAM (Sync Graphics Ram) is fixed at 66MHz and 3.3v so it can't be used with other PCI Cards. Not a big deal since most owners would never want to use it for other cards. The Rage128 OEM Card and the yosemite connector for it has reversed connector notches so it cannot be used in any other PCI slot.
DVD: This option includes both the DVD (IDE) drive and a MPEG decoder module that piggybacks on the Rage128 video card. See the press release on the Rage128 from Apple. More technical details are included at ATI's site and at the Apple G3 Developers site.
Memory: With a 100MHz system bus technically only PC100 spec (Intel's certified program for 100MHz bus SDRAM DIMMs) should be used. In some rare cases I've seen 66MHz SDRAM run fine at least in 100MHz bus PC systems. Most SDRAM has a SPD [serial presence detect] chip (now required) - it contains the memory timing parameters that is used by the motherboard bios in PCs, but not sure if/how Apple uses this information. I'd suggest only PC100 rated DIMMs be used. Current street prices on PC100 128MB DIMMs is in the $175 or so range. There are 2CAS (Column Address Strobe) timing PC100 DIMMs available at additional cost which I've just learned that Grackle will take advantage of *if* there are no slower DIMMs installed.
According to the developer note:
"The Grackle memory controller IC is configured to detect devices with a CAS latency as low as 1 and as high as 3. The Grackle IC is configured to support the slowest SDRAM bank it detects in the system."
2CAS DIMMS are usually 10% or so higher in cost and as stated above you would have to remove the stock DIMM and use all 2CAS to see any benefit (if the dev note is indeed true - I have 3 memory timing tests I may run when I get more 2CAS DIMMS). Since a 66MHz to 83MHz bus speed boost made little to no difference in any apps tests I ran 2CAS memory is not worth it on this machine. I've run generic PC100 DIMMS at 112MHz bus speeds fine and 2CAS DIMMs as high as 124MHz bus speeds reliably in PCs.
Note that the official specs say 125MHz/8ns spec'd chips need to be used remember the chip rating is not the only factor as the DIMM circuit trace design, layering, etc. affects operation as well. This is why the PC100 spec was created - with design guidelines to ensure reliable 100MHz bus speeds for an assembled dimm.
USB: Sources tell me there is still no booting from USB devices. USB is the only serial ports provided. 3COM has a USB V.90 modem but I'm not sure if it will work with the Mac. Others may also offer USB modems.
ROM: Like the iMac, the Yosemite uses a shadowed ROM scheme - loading the ROM into system RAM (faster) but that consumes 3MB of system RAM.
AV Ports: Except for the audio jacks, FireWire is the only Audio/Video input source (3rd party solutions will address this I'm sure).
ADB: Unlike the iMac - the new G3's do have ADB ports so you can use a real keyboard ;-)
Power Supply: Like the original G3, you need to ensure the AC switch is set to the correct voltage (115/230V). Primarily a concern if you order a G3 from a non-authorized dealer that may have a Euro-spec model (this was reported early on in the G3-ZONE troubleshooting page). Monitor power jack does not switch off with the system power (cost saving decision I assume).
Yosemite Photos: Colin Anderson sent a URL to an Apple page that has some nice photos of the new PowerMac G3s
Yosemite $50 SCSI Card Option: [Update: I hear that Apple may be using the better (bootable) 2930 card for the $50 option now] I just received this important information on the $49 SCSI option that I mentioned in early January's main site news:" A note about the $50 SCSI option, it is for a narrow 25 pin card only. Apple is offering a U2 card and Ultra2 drive separately, but the $50 SCSI option later is a new Adaptec 2906 card which is just a low end SCSI 2 card with a 25 pin connector.
NOTE: The 2906 card does not support boot devices from it. This is the only SCSI card that Adaptec will offer that doesn't support booting from a device connected to it. Adaptec will also offer a 2930 variant that supports SCSI II with a micro 50 connector and it will be bootable. "
Assuming this is true, then it's not something I would want to use up a PCI slot for. If you order your G3 with a SCSI hard drive (vs. IDE) I believe you get a Wide SCSI capable card, Ultra2 SCSI perhaps. However the $49 'SCSI Slot option' appears to be little more than a interface for legacy SCSI devices. I'll save that slot for a Ultra2 SCSI card. Several readers also commented that the new models may be available from other retail outlets soon than orders from Apple's store (I hope not...).
An insider that has seen Quake on both the Rage128 Yosemite and a Voodoo2 3dfx equipped Mac tells me that they are virtually identical in appearance. And according to Apple's demo yesterday at Macworld the Rage128 is faster than a PII 450 with (one) Voodoo2 card. Their tests in Quake and Dark Vengence showed the Yosemite 400 with Rage128 card to be about 20% faster than the PII 450 with Voodoo2. I can't wait to run my own comparisons. Watch our Unreal news page for details (we'll update the many comparions of performance linked there).
Yosemite Interal Modem: [Updated] - These can now be ordered as a $100 kit from the Apple Store and are expected to be available at retail dealers soon.
Yosemite G3 Specs and Features: A reader sent a link to a complete list of features, interfaces and complete technical information on the new G3 models. There is also a PDF File (974K) with complete developer info.
For general info on the new G3 line, see Apple's PowerMac G3 page.
This page will be updated with additional information in the future. If you have comments or input on the new Yosemite G3's please contact me.
Back to G3-ZONE for more Apple G3 Info
Back to XLR8YOURMAC.COM (If you're trapped in a frames site - click here to clear frames)
Copyright © 1999.
No part of this sites content is to be reproduced in any form without written permission.
All brand or product names mentioned here are properties of their respective companies.
Users of this web site must read and are bound by the terms and conditions of use.