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Powermac G5/iMac G5 USB and Firewire Device ReportsReturn to News Page

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G5 owner Feedback on USB and Firewire Devices
Reports Last Updated: 1/18/2007
(Via vt6306 4-Port FW400 PCI card report)

Tiger/OS X 10.4 Notes: Unless otherwise noted, the reports below were from before OS X 10.4/Tiger was released. Initial reports from Tiger users reported that some cards now supported deep sleep (although connected devices can still prevent deep sleep). The May 4th, 2005 main news page here has a Summary list of Tiger/PCI card sleep reports. (Also there's a note/tip on Tiger restart/shutdown problems due to some 3rd party startup items.)
NOTE: Before buying a Firewire hub, make sure you read the reports below on failures with some brands/models of Firewire hubs. (Blown hubs due to the G5's FW bus Voltage being above some hub's rating, although it's under the FW spec max.) Also read the PCI card reports before buying a Firewire or FW/USB card for a G5 tower.


- Report Categories -
= Firewire/FW+USB Combo Hubs | USB 2.0 Hubs
Cameras/Scanners | PCI cards/Other Devices =

This page is a catch-all for G5 owner reports on USB and Firewire devices (any problems, tips, notes on compatible devices, etc.). As is possible with any 'rev 1/rev A' design - it appears that there is lower than expected performance with the G5's firewire ports (that hopefully will be fixed in later models that have later logic board/chipset revisions). Even testing a single Firewire400 drive (200GB oxford911 bridge based case) shows lower performance on my Dual G5/2GHz than even a PowerBook G4 Alum. model. (Appx 5MB/sec lower performance than the G4 in tests with that drive.) Not a show-stopper for home users but disappointing. (Performance is also reportedly lower with high end FW800/RAIDed drives.)
Also as a FYI (not limited to the G5, also seen on other USB 2.0 port current macs like a PB G4/17in 1.33GHz) - tests with a FW400/USB 2.0 hard drive (200GB/7200rpm model used) show USB 2.0 rates about 50% slower than Firewire400. For G5 specific tests see this page (also includes links to non-Mac site tests of FW400 vs USB 2.0).

For Info/reports on RAM, PCI cards, Tech Docs, Software Updates, etc. - see the previous G5 Tech Docs/Compatibility Info/Updates page.
I decided to separate Camera and Scanner reports and other 3rd party USB and Firewire devices. (Also you can post USB and Firewire device reports in the database here selecting PowerMac G5 as the mac model.)

If any other G5 owners have seen any problems with any 3rd party USB or Firewire devices, let me know (include system/OS/device details, your boot rom version reported by Apple System Profiler (i.e. did you update to 5.1.4 firmware), etc. - Thanks. If there's PCI card deep sleep problems, try tests w/o any devices connected to the PCI card.)
Also for USB problems, test with devices plugged into the Mac and the keyboard if you see a problem to see if it's common with both. (Ditto for any problems using Firewire devices, PCI cards, Hubs, ports on displays, etc.)

General (no addon devices/cards) onboard USB or Firewire Problem Reports:

Blown LEDs on Firewire Cables: (from the August 2004 news pages, in reply to posts there on problems with MacAlly FW/USB 2.0 Hub and D-Link FW/USB 2.0 Hubs being damaged (blown caps, etc.) due to firewire bus voltage - see info/reports below in FW Hub section.)
Note that the official Firewire spec notes voltages from 8 - 30volts (with a 10% design margin, up to 33V which is what some older apple spec docs note), so clearly some firewire devices sold today are not designed for the upper ranges (G5 firewire bus no-load voltage is 25V per Apple developer docs, ditto for some prev. models like the MDD G4)

" ...I thought I'd mention that my 867MDD and a G5 at my work place blow out LED lit Firewire cables from 2 different manufacturers. (specifically QVS's Firewire Cable with blue LED's in each end)
Nicholas S. "

I asked Nicholas if he had spoken to the cable vendor about this (and if they've posted any notes on this issue at their product pages.)

(from Nov. 17th, 2003 email - see later Dec. 11th update/info below)
"USB freezes on G5:
On a G5 2x2GHz 8GB RAM OS X 10.3 Panther with no other USB peripherals than the Apple keyboard that shipped with the computer, the Apple mouse that shipped with the computer, the old iMac mechanical mouse, OR a MacAlly icemouse ALL would freeze the USB bus repeatedly and quickly, up to several times per minute, sometimes for a short moment, sometimes requiring deconnection and reconnection of the USB connector. This machine runs some Firewire peripherals, and a 21 inch Sun monitor.

This is, politely put, *extremely* irritating and until there is a definite fix, a rather good reason not to buy these machines and keep monitoring the user forums and boards until this issue is fixed. While any legal fine print may give Apple the right to sell computers that don't meed advertised specifications (such as 'you will be able to use a mouse'), this should not play out in reality. If USB can not be implemented in a way that it delivers solid connectivity, it must not be used. It's as simple as that.
Wolf S."

On Nov. 10th the 10.3.1 update was released but assuming he applied that with no help but I'll ask. I have not seen this with my Dual G5 2GHz (in either 10.2.8, 10.3 or 10.3.1 using the mouse connected to the keyboard which is connected to the rear USB port).
Wolf later wrote that he thinks the problem is due to the quality/shielding of the cables of the device:

(Dec. 11th, 2003 mail)
"no and honestly we don't believe os x or even mac has to do with it any more. our latest update:

1) we have researched the subject with different systems and different mice (mouses?). initially, we thought it's a dual monitor OR g4/g5 problem

2) there is a theory saying the thin usb cables are shielded not enough; thicker are better

3) in complete analogy, firewire problems are reported to occur with thin cables such as isight -camera-dropouts with the cable that it gets delivered with

4) i can reproduce the usb-mac-mouse freeze initially posted as dual-monitor-freeze:
- on a mac g4 or g5 or emac with any mouse with a rather thin usb cable
- on an acer veriton 3500 (NOT A MAC AT ALL) with the same mice .. as long as the cable is curled up and close to the computer
- not on any of these with a really rather thick usb mouse cable (logitech first pilot wheel mouse or weirdly enough , microsoft wireless optical mouse).

5) in entire analogy again, i fixed our isight camera problem with a THICKER firewire cable. less elegant, but..

i have to say that our hardware is close together, closely spaced i mean, in an office with large crt monitors, so if anywhere there is supposed electrical interference, then, here's the location. so that'd explain why we get the usb mouse AND the isight lock-up problem in the same place.
wolf"


G5 Owner Reports on Cameras/Scanners: (most recent first)

Another Microtek 5900 Scanner Problem report:

(added 8/30/2005)
"Just thought I would let you know that my microtek 5900 does not work on the G5 either. Same problem as yours (he's referring to a previous reader problem report on the 5900-Mike). I have not bothered to fix it. Or try for that matter. Interestingly enough they say that Tiger does not work with 5900. Well it does, it's just the G5. Have ccd this to sales @ Microtek, but doubt it will do any good - as long as they can sell the stuff - with no support!!!
Worked on the G4 - but not the G5.
So for now I use the scanmaker on the G3 laptop.
All 3 computers are running Tiger 10.4.2.
As far as Microtek support, they are bloody useless, worse than Epson support, if that is possible. :-)
Mike R. "


Canopus ADVC-100:

(added 8/18/2005)
" I saw the article about Canon cameras not tolerating other FW devices on the same bus (see post below from GL2 owner) and wanted to share a problem I've had.
Here's the short version: I've discovered that using a Canopus ADVC-100 with an external hard drive connected does not allow the Canopus to be detected by the software I'm using (ProTools 6.4). It worked fine when I was working off an iMac G4 800. My point is, the problem may not be isolated to Canon products.

G5 Dual 2.0 (March '05)
External FireWire Hard Drive (Generic but with the Oxford 911 chipset) Booting 10.3.9 off the FW HD (ProTools 6.4 does not run on Tiger) Canopus ADVC-100
Thanks for posting the original article. I couldn't figure out what was going on. I guess I'll buy a FW PCI card.
-James "

Although there were no video/capture devices used, a G5 owner wrote he's not had a problem with other multiple firewire device use:

" I have five firewire devices, external HD, two scanners, two printers, connected to my G5 2.3GHz w/tiger10.4, without a problem. Oh, and sometimes an iPod.
cheers, William "

Problems if both Canon GL2 + FW Drives connected:

(added 8/17/2005)
" Just purchased a new dual 2.7GHz G5. Problem started when I plugged the Canon GL2 into the front firewire port. However, after several installs and being told by my local apple store that it is a software problem I came to realize that the camera works fine if there is no external drive connected.
I have a new 500 GB OWC elite AL and a 500 gig lacie big disk. Both interfere with the computer/camcorder interaction. Things seem to work fine if they are ejected/unplugged and I reboot. Any body else experience this?
thanks
-David "

I asked him if the problem was performance related (slow) or is it just not recognized? (Even the iSight has been reported to cause some performance problems if used simul. with other FW devices.)
Some other reader's replied to this post:

(added 8/17/2005)
" Hi Mike,
This is a followup to the fellow who reported the problem with having a GL2 and a FW hard drive on a G5.

The problem seems to have existed since the original G5 dual 2.0 and the Canon GL1, and (apparently) never fixed. I've heard that the XL1 also has the issue, so it seems consistent with Canon's higher end cameras but I have no verification of this myself.

I've had the same problem on both an old G5 dual 2.0 and a dual 2.5: having both the GL2 (or 1) on the same FW bus as a FW HD causes the Mac to not interact with the camera properly. I've only tested with OWC FW800 drives, so I don't know if it's universal to all FW drives (but I have read on CreativeCow forums about similar issues, so it seems not to be unique).
You can't capture or export to the camera with Final Cut or iMovie at all (it's been a while since I bothered to try it, but I believe Final Cut just does a beachball when you try a log and capture; unplugging the camera is required to stop it).
The only consistent workable solution I've found is to buy a PCI Firewire card and keep the camera isolated on its own bus, which is what I am doing at our office. It's sucks having to tie up a PCI-X slot for s a workaround, but at least it works.
Jee H. L. "

Mike Mihalik of Lacie wrote:

(added 8/17/2005)
" Mike,
This is a rather old problem. Many posts on this at Apple Discussion forums.
Most Canon camcorders cannot tolerate other FireWire devices when connected to the same FireWire bus. Problem is more prevalent with FW800 devices and interfaces. This problem may also occur with some other audio and DV FireWire devices.

Why is this a problem: the 1394 devices with the problem expect to be the only FireWire traffic on the bus; switching the speed down to S100.
There is no firmware fix.
Also, since all the built-in ports share the same FireWire bus (essentially a hub), it doesn't matter how the FireWire devices are connected. So even a separate hub will not fix the situation.

The solution:
- add a second FireWire bus to the computer, using a PC Card if a laptop, or a PCI card if a PowerMac.
Mike "

There's reports on Firewire PCI cards and FW/USB combo cards here as well as a past post from a GL2 owner on problems solved by a front FW port panel replacement (see report directly below).


The dual G5 owner that reported problem (dropped frames) in an earlier report below with a DV camcorder wrote that replacing the front panel board solved the problem. (As far as I know the front and rear ports are all on the same FW bus.) Farther down is another G5 owner's comment on a Firewire cable swap solving the same problem on his system.

(added 3/5/2004)
" Thanks for posting my e-mail on your web site.
I have good news for G5 users experiencing video capture problems with the front FireWire port. The Apple Store replaced the front panel board on my G5, and my video capture problems have gone away.
Thanks again,
Tony

Subject: RE: G5 Dual 1.8 with front port firewire problems
Tonight I tested my G5 after the folks at the Old Orchard Apple Store replaced the front port panel; they did NOT replace the logic board.

I'm glad to say that the video capture dropouts that I was previously experiencing are no longer present in the front FireWire port. Hats off to the Apple Store Genii and repair personnel (specifically Shane, Eric, and Ryan).

For any G5 users out there who think they may need the same front port panel replaced, let me describe in full the symptoms that I experienced.

System Configuration
Dual 2.0GHz G5 with built-in Bluetooth
512 MB RAM, ATI Radeon 9800 (128 MB)
Boot ROM Version: 5.14f0
MacOS Version: 10.3.2

FireWire Devices Tested
Canon GL2 MiniDV Camcorder
Maxtor One-Touch 200 GB USB/FireWire external hard drive

Experiment 1

  1. With G5 and GL2 powered on, connect GL2 to G5's front FireWire port.
  2. Insert a pre-recorded MiniDV tape into GL2 camcorder.
  3. Launch iMovie and set switch to Import Video.
  4. Click Play button in iMovie to trigger play of MiniDV tape in GL2 camcorder.

Observed Behavior with GL2 Connected to Front FireWire Port iMovie video playback exhibited a low frame rate that suggested that frames were being dropped. Audio exhibited a stuttering effect where sound would cut in and out with a rapid frequency on an on-going basis. Occassionally iMovie would display the blue screen and show "Camera Disconnected", but then video playback would continue within a fraction of a second. Importing video fails due to excessive dropped frames or lost connection with camcorder.

Observed Behavior with GL2 Connected to Rear FireWire Port iMovie video playback was not 100% smooth, but the framerate is considerably better than playback from the front FireWire port. Audio playback sounds continuous and has no audible dropouts. iMovie detected that the camera was connected continuously and did not falsely detect disconnections. Importing video is successfully completed. The observed behavior seemed NORMAL and acceptable.

Experiment 2

  1. With G5 and Maxtor FireWire drive powered on, connect Maxtor drive to G5's front FireWire port.
  2. When drive is detected, open drive in Finder and attempt to copy a large (40 GB) video file from the Maxtor drive to the G5's internal hard drive.

Observed Behavior with Maxtor FireWire drive connected to Front FireWire Port.
The FireWire drive remained connected throughout the file copy. The file was successfully copied to the internal hard drive with a transfer rate between 5-6 MB/s. The copied file seemed to be intact when played back from the internal drive.

Observed Behavior with Maxtor FireWire drive connected to Rear FireWire Port
Same behavior observed when connected to front FireWire port. These observations suggest that the problem with the front FireWire port is not seen with hard drive FireWire devices but the problem is only seen with video devices.

Conclusions
It seems that the problem is only detectable when a video FireWire device is connected to the front FireWire port. A FireWire hard drive does not seem to exhibit any problems on a G5 with a bad front FireWire port, BUT THIS DOES NOT PROVE THAT YOUR FRONT FIREWIRE PORT IS OK.

Suggested Actions for Concerned G5 Owners
I have no idea how many G5's are affected by this specific issue, but the only way to help Apple is to perform your own controlled experiment. Disconnect all devices except for a video FireWire device, and try this device in both the front and rear ports while capturing video.

If you find that your front FireWire port exhibits capture or playback problems, you can report the issue to Apple technical support and provide your G5's serial number. Hopefully Apple will soon have enough data to issue a formal statement about the status of this problem. Apple's technical support line can be reached through 1-800-275-2273.

If you have the same symptoms as I described and need an immediate fix for your front FireWire port, then I suggest having your G5 serviced by replacing just the front panel board that houses the power switch, headphone jack, USB port, and FireWire port. Your service center may need some lead time to order this part, so you may wish to call ahead to check to see if they have it in stock."

(Tony's email above is a copy of what he posted in the Apple Discussion forums thread on the problem.)

Another G5 owner wrote that a better quality firewire cable helped:

(added 3/5/2004)
" I had the same problem (dropped frames with DV camera) with the front firewire port and switched out the cable and it went away- it could be because of the location it doesn't respond well to lower quality cables.
Eric R. "


(Tony's original posting about the DV camera/front FW port issue)

(added 3/5/2004)"
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G5/G5_usb_firewire_reports.html (this page)
I read the problem described about the DV camera capture problem with the front firewire port on the G5 on the page above.

I am experiencing the exact same problem with a new custom-built dual 2GHz G5 I bought in February 2004 (with Bluetooth). I updated the OS and firmware to the latest version, 10.3.2 and 5.1.4 (I think). When I connect my Canon GL2 camcorder to the front firewire port, I get dropped frames and stuttering audio as well as random disconnects. When the same Canon GL2 camcorder and cable are used connected to the rear firewire port on the G5, capturing works fine.

I brought in my Canon GL2 camcorder and cable to an Apple store to try the same experiment. The front firewire port on the store's single 1.6GHz G5 HAD NO PROBLEMS. The rear firewire port worked as well in the store. Unfortunately I did not capture the firmware and OS version of the store's G5.

I have seen several threads on Apple's user forum regarding this same problem, so I called in to Apple support to see if they had a technical article regarding this issue. Apple says that this is a known "hot" issue that has been escalated to their engineering group (the highest it can go). There is no known root-cause of the problem, but users have reported in the user forum that replacing the logic board has fixed it. The best that any user can do at this point is to report their G5's serial number to Apple and have them associate it with this issue and to try to get their logic boards replaced. By reporting this information to Apple, it will help their engineering team troubleshoot the root-cause of the problem. There is currently no public Knowledge Base article available, and I was not given any expected date to publish such an article.

Here are the related Apple Discussion topics:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?13@@.688f8ae6
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?13@@.688db762
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?13@@.599e4e24
http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?13@@.599e4c82
Tony "

See Tony's later report above about swapping the front panel board solving the problem.



(added 2/9/2004)"
Regarding problems with the Dual G5 and Canon Digital Rebel... (previous report below)
I've had absolutely no trouble transferring photos from my EOS Digital Rebel to a 2GHz Dual G5 (using the front ports)- either with a Lexar FireWire CompactFlash Reader or directly with the Canon-supplied USB cable. I'm using a Transcend 256MB CompactFlash card (which I highly recommend). The camera is running firmware 1.1.1 and the G5 is 5.07f0.
It also works fine on my Dual 1GHz Quicksilver at home. Both machines are running OS X 10.3.2.
Best Regards, Shannon C. "

As I mentioned last week in the news page (and below), I also have had no problems with a G5 (Dual 2GHz w/5.1.4 firmware which is the latest available to date) transferring files from a Digital Rebel (firmware 1.1.1 w/512MB Sandisk UltraII High Speed CF card installed.)


(added 2/9/2004)"
Being an owner of a dual G5/1.8, I recognize the problems with onboard USB I bought my computer last november with1.5Gb Ram installed. Downloading from virtually any Digital camera ( Eos 10D, Olympus C550, Sony and also my USB Imagetank) were unsuccessful. Also my USB memorystick works unreliable. I found out, that it has something to do with the amount of Rambanks installed. Specifically: If (in my machine at least) I have Dimms installed in J11 and J12 then downloading is successful. However if i increase the number of installed Dimms, the errors start occurring again.
It is not related to the brand of memory. It works with apple supplied Dimms and also with only third party dimms. Testing the hardware with all Dimms installed does not reveal any error. My computers romversion is 5.14f0. for the moment I stick to 512Mb because USB is then fully functional.
Paul W
(he later wrote)
I forgot to mention that the data in all the USB devices appears not to be affected by the corrupted downloads. "

I have all dimm slots full in my dual G5 (3.5GB ram, 6 512MB dimms (CL3) and the two original OEM samsung CL3 256's) - no problems importing direct from the Digital rebel camera via the front USB port (not tested other methods yet)


(added 2/9/2004)"
I had the same problem on my Dual G5/2 gig and, after a tremendous amount of hair-pulling, reinstalling, trying multiple CF card readers, etc. I finally discovered that it was due to a pair of bad aftermarket ram (replaced with no problems). Running the Hardware test disk isolated the problem.

After pointing this out on the Apple discussion list, many others who had the problem found that they also had bad ram.
Tim S."


Canon Digital EOS 300D/Digital Rebel owner report on CF card/xfer corruption problems. (Not running latest 5.1.4 G5 firmware, if that matters.)

(added 2/6/2004)
I've got a dual 1.8 G5 running 10.3.2. I keep having problems with data transfer over USB.

I have a Canon EOS 300D digital camera (known as Digital Rebel in the US) and when I plug it in, the data on the CF card gets corrupted. I can transfer the JPG's but they are corrupted when I try to open them. I thought it was the camera so I tried using a card reader, the SCM ZLL combo CF/SM reader. Same problem.

When I read out my Hyperdrive 2.0 256 mB USB Flash Memory key, all data gets munched up. EPS files won't read, PDF corrupted. JPG's Corrupted...

On other machines (we've got all G4's running 10.3.2 in the rest of the company) the same data is perfectly OK, except for anything stored on the Canon camera. That data is irreparably broken and forever lost.
Peter de F.
I asked Peter some questions)

Does your G5 have the 5.1.4 firmware update installed?
No, I just discovered it's 5.12f2. Strange that Software Update didn't inform me of an upgrade. I'll look into that.

Does the Canon Digital Rebel have the latest firmware in it?
Yep, 1.1.1.

Are you plugging direct into the G5's USB port or are you using a USB hub?
(some prev. G5 owners reported problems with USB hubs - see reports here)

I have tried the camera on all the G5's ports and the ports on my Apple Studio Display 21 (CRT). All symptoms were the same. The USB Flash key was tried on all ports and results were the same. It doesn't work on the keyboard, I get the "too much power" error.

After I mentioned not seeing a problem here w/Dual G5 (5.1.4 firmware) and a Rebel camera w/512MB Sandisk UltraII CF card he wrote
I'm using an Lexar 256 MB 8x CF. But because the flash memory key has the same issues, I doubt that it has anything to do with the CF or the Rebel's firmware for that matter.
I'm going to upgrade (the G5 system) to 5.1.4 (firmware) and I'll let you know what happens. "

I also asked him if the CF card had been formatted in the Camera. I tested a Canon Digital Rebel (1.1.1 firmware) with Sandisk UltraII 512MB CompactFlash card installed in the camera directly connected to a Dual G5 (10.3.2/all updates incl. 5.1.4 firmware) and iPhoto imported the images from the camera/card fine (no corruption issues).
Peter's comments reminded me of another Digital Rebel owner's problems with a Magicstor Microdrive 2.2GB (CF type II hard drive):

(reader mail from last fall when rebel 1.1.1 firmware was released)
" I thought I let you know about the problems with Magicstor Microdrive 2.2gig CF II and the Canon Digital Rebel. Unless you eject the microdrive before the camera powers itself down, or you power it down, it will never turn on again. So basically if you never turn off the camera, you'll never have a problem. Obviously leaving your Camera on is not a solution...
I was hoping the new fireware update would fox the problems with the magicstor, but it doesn't. "


Unknown brand/model DV camera issue:

(added 11/4/2003)
"When I connect the DV camera using the front port, it doesn't work (lots of lost frames in capture etc.), however the back port works fine. Heard of this?
Jon"

(See later reports on this - including a reader saying a better cable helped and another saying swapping the front panel board solved it.) I asked Jon what OS X version he was running and also what boot rom version he has - ASP will report the boot rom version. mine is 5.0.2f2, many later G5s had 5.0.7.(Note - after this was first posted Apple released a 5.1.4 firmware update) Although you'd think that front or rear FW ports would not matter, I think there was one other report like this in the past (but not typical). My Dual G5 front FW port works fine with my old Panasonic PV-DV910 Camcorder. If anyone else sees a USB or Firewire device problem with a G5, let me know. (Include your OS version and System Firmware version.)


" 10.2.8 update seems to have fixed my problem (freezing iPhoto when connecting a Canon S50 camera - see previous report) completely
Adam "

If anyone else sees a USB or Firewire device problem fixed in 10.2.8 for the G5, let me know.

(Note - Camera reports below from Oct. 2003 were from G5s using 10.2.7 - before later OS updates and firmware update that may fix some previous problems)

(added Oct. 3rd, 2003)
" More info on the Olympus C3000z and Logitech wireless mouse USB conflict... I tried again, this time plugging the camera into the keyboard's second USB port. While the mouse didn't lock up, it did seem very sluggish, almost like the batteries of the mouse were running out. I tried again with the camera plugged into the front, and one again the mouse stopped moving.
There is definitely some conflict/problems with USB on the Dual.
John T.
(I asked if he had tried the USB ports on the keyboard and for his system details (just for the record in case later firmware updates or OS X updates affect any of these sorts of problems)-Mike)

Yes, it's a Dual G5. Only difference from stock is 1gb memory. Running 10.2.7. I will get the boot rom version tonight when I get home.

I tried using the keyboard USB ports last night, and while the mouse did not freeze up like when using the front USB port, but there was a definite conflict. When the camera was being accessed, the mouse would be sluggish - move the mouse and the cursor would jump around the screen. "


(added Oct. 3rd, 2003)
" I recently got a 1.8 G5. I use an Olympus c3020 camera on USB and a Canon Lide50 scanner also on USB. Both are connected to a standard USB hub. (So no USB2 with the scanner).

The camera works just fine with iPhoto. The scanner works fine with the supplied software. It came with Photoshop Essentials 2 and a plugin. BTW, this is a really great deal the scanner was ~$100 bundled with PS Essentials 2 which retails for almost that much.

The system is 10.2.7 with any security updates and 1.5GB RAM. No other upgrades.
Chad "


" I also have a problem connecting my camera to my g5. I have a Canon s50, when i connect it to the computer, it opens iphoto and soon freezes.
I also have a usb card reader for the flash card, and when i connect it to the g5 the same thing happens.
My old sony digital camera has the same problem with the g5.
All 3 items work fine with iphoto on my powerbook.
Adam M.
(Update:)
10.2.8 update seems to have fixed my problem completely Adam "

I wrote Adam that there's a Oct. 1st 2003 firmware update for the S50 (and some other Canon models) at Canon's firmware updates page. The S50 specific 2.0 Firmware update page doesn't mention improving problems with USB connections to computers but I asked if he tried it to report back. (He later wrote it didn't help - but 10.2.8 did.)
I booted the Dual G5 here and connected my Canon PowerShot S230 (firmare v1.0.2 applied some months ago) and it worked fine. (iPhoto launched and imported the images from the CF card in the camera OK.)


Here's the first USB Scanner problem report from a G5 owner:

" Since I received my G5, I have had problems with my microtek 5900 usb2 scanner. I know the scanner is working fine because it works fine with my emac.
The application I use is scanwizard 5 v 7.10 from microtek. This app has three components, the first is microtek scanner finder that scans the USB ports to find the device. There seems to be a problem with this app and the G5 because it hangs if I start the G5 with the scanner connected and on. If I do the startup without connecting the scanner and plug it in after, the scanner finder finds the device and I can use it.
The second app is microtek scanner config and this one seems OK although it depends on the scanner finder (if no device is found or scanner finder hangs this app also hangs). The third app is microtek scanwizard 5 wich also seems to have a problem with the overview button (or the automatic overview in basic mode), which also hangs the app.

To my comprehension there seems to be a USB problem and also probably a software problem. I have called Microtek support and they told me that some G5 owners had no problem with the scanner and the same software but others had the same problem I had. They think it might be related to different rev. of G5's.
Thanks Jean D. "

If any other 5900 Scanner owner has used it with a G5, let me know. (Other scanner and camera reports are also welcome - Firewire or USB.)


G5 owner reports on Firewire (or Combo FW+USB ) Hubs:

IOGEAR GUH420 Combo Firewire/USB Hub Failure:

(added 7/12/2005)
"I recently purchased a PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0ghz after they announced the 2.7 duals at Apple.com. It's running Tiger (10.4.1).

I bought an IOGEAR GUH420 Combo Firewire / USB Hub. After a day or two or use the unit was extremely hot and I noticed a visible crack on the white casing. There are LED indicators for connected devices, and while the green LEDs (signifying USB devices) still look fine, the orange ones are either extremely dim or non existent anymore. This may well have to do with the problems mentioned on your page about G5 Feedback with (some) USB/Firewire hubs. (see reports on MacAlly FW/USB Hub failures below. Reportedly due to device not being designed to tolerate the FW bus voltage in the G5, although it's within the FW spec. Down the page here are also links to vendor pages on this issue. The Dlink DFB-H7 FW/USB hub is also not compatible with G5s due to the firewire bus voltage rating.-Mike)
I've contacted Iogear and am awaiting
I would recommend that any G5 owners stay away from this HUB, as the Mac may well be responsible for blowing it up. I'll contact you again if they have a resolution to the problem.
Thanks, James "


More Reports on MacAlly FW+USB Hub Failures:
(Note - some G4 owners also have reported failures with this hub, not just G5 owners (see Nov. 5th report below) and the Dec. 6th, 2004 news page had a MDD G4 owner's report on a similar failure of this hub that he said damaged the FW ports on his camcorder and FW HDs)

(added 2/1/2005 from 1/23 mail)
"Hi. I recently purchased a HUB-UF, s/n 000276. I used it for a few days with all the USB ports filled, and it worked fine, no sleep issues or any problems at all.
But last night I connected the Firewire and heard the loud pop. I pulled the FW cables and everything seems ok--I need to check the FW now. I'm going to call Macally US tomorrow.
-Jim
(I asked to verify if his system was a G5)
Yep, G5 1.6GHz "

I suspect it's blown a capacitor (at least) - see previous reports on this issue below from the last year.

(added 11/16/2004)
"G5 2 X 2 Ghz PPC 970 V 2.2 "week of 07/06/04 cork" (mfg plant)
Hub macally (S/N) # 4153 0003 82
Power Supply # 0044 0140 20
PS dead after plugging in FW cable, tried with other PS 12V (from a FW disk) dead too !!
Paid 99 euro for it on a special shop for Mac
Was working very fine on Imac 800 Mhz.
-Fricotin in barcelona / spain"

Although one recent report said using it without the AC adapter seemed OK (but not sure if any others would survive that way either), personally I would not recommend using this hub with any G5 (including the iMac G5). I linked to the MacAlly page they posted on this problem here back in August, but I think they should include a warning on the device (a label at least) until they can solve this problem.

OWC's Jamie Dresser wrote:

(added Nov. 5th, 2004)
"Our MacAlly rep just called - they are going to be issuing a product warning on this item, blaming the higher than spec'd output of the FireWire on the iMac G5 and Desktop G5. (But as I mentioned before - the FW400 spec I saw lists bus power max of 28V - and some other G4 towers have 24V+ FW bus voltages, so I'd not use one of these with them either.-Mike)
He said we should not sell them for either of those models. Our site reflects this information already.
Sincerely,
Jamie Dresser
Product Manager & New Product Development
Other World Computing, Inc."

(added Nov. 5th, 2004)
" Have you had any comments from folks not getting responses from macally? I've sent them 4-5 emails on this subject and haven't gotten any replies back....

I blew another one of these. (I asked to be sure but assuming this is a G5 system owner) This time the capacitor actually blew up. It was working fine before with the power supply hooked up but without any FW devices. I decided it was time to try it out FW to see if it worked. I plugged in the FW cable and held my hand over the hub to see if it'd heat up again and everything seemed fine. I turned around to do something else and pop the cap blew.
S/N 34220018
-Paul H. "

(Post from the Nov. 5th, 2004 news page follows)
The previous 2 reports (below) were from iMac G5 owners on burned out MacAlly FW+USB hubs, similar to the previous reports here from G5 Tower owners on that Hub model. (See august dated reports below for details and info/links to vendor pages on the problem.) Another reader sent comments on the MacAlly FW+USB Hub he used with a G4 Cube and a G5 Tower:

" I had trouble with the Macally firewire/USB combo hub with my Cube. The first one I owned, I used the external power supply and had similar melting experiences to those you've reported. (as I mentioned in earlier reports - some other macs have 24-25V FW bus power specs and the sawtooth model dev docs note 30V FW bus power, so this problem can happen even with pre-G5 macs although Macally and dlink both mention G5s in their pages on the compat. problem. Dlink specifically mentions the fw bus voltage-Mike)
I did find with the replacement unit that the first time I plugged it in with the external power supply, I smelled burning plastic. I unplugged it at once, and was able to get it before any permanent damage had happened.

I now use it with my G5, but NOT with the external power supply, and all has worked well.
Mike D. "

I asked him what the serial number of the Hub he has was just for the record (as the question of later S/Ns having the problem came up previously.) (BTW - The Dec. 6th 2004 news page also had a report from a MDD owner on a similar failure of this Hub.) Personally I would not recommend using this hub (with any mac) but if anyone else with a new one finds using it with a G5 without the external P.S. avoids the problem, let me know (include the serial number of the Hub in reports -thanks).

iMac G5 reports on Blown MacAlly FW+USB Hub: (Updated Nov. 4th, 2004)
Yesterday's news had an iMac G5 owner report (see below) on a burned out MacAlly FW/USB hub with a recap of the same problem seen with that hub (and a Dlink model) noted in the past here from G5 Tower owners. (reportedly the FW bus voltage although under the spec max, must be too high for those hub designs/components). Another iMac G5 owner wrote he's seen the same thing:

" I recommended the MacAlly FW+USB Hub to a friend mainly based on the nifty combo design that also seemed to be a great match for his new 20in iMac G5. I helped him install the combo hub and ran into an incident remarkably similar to Todd R's report (here) on 11/3.

The hub was initially hooked up to the iMac G5's USB2.0 - the hub at the time was self-powered using the MacAlly provided power adapter. The USB hub worked fine for a good hour or two, it was only after the Firewire cable hooked up to the iMac did things really start to go haywire.

The hub just stopped - LEDs quickly went out and every attached device lost power. The power adapter LED flickered, dimmed and also went out. The smell of burning plastic was unmissable - it took a few seconds to figure out that the hub itself was culprit. The side of the hub (I think) nearest the power supply jack was absolutely scolding hot. Certainly hot enough to melt the adjacent white plastic case over a roughly one-inch area. There was a slight bulge or bubbling of the case right by the power adapter jack. I didnt notice any discoloration on the case. Everything was still gleaming white.

We didn't have any success in getting the toasted hub to power up again after that. He did manage to get an exchange from J & R - which was where the hub was originally bought. The replacement did exactly the same as the first. This time we were ready to unplug as soon as things got even slightly warm. Within seconds of attaching to Firewire port on the iMac G5, the hub LEDs dimmed considerably. Same for the power adapter only at this time it was blinking rapidly while dimming. The hub case was very warm in the same region as the first burned-out MacAlly combo hub.

These things need warning labels. We were just fortunate to be in the same room at the time the hub overheated. Had we walked out for a couple of hours, things could have been pretty serious. Based on the two incidents (more than that - G5 tower owners also reported the problem here earlier this year) - Id strongly advise G5 owners to exercise extra caution when using Firewire ports on the MacAlly FW+USB Hub.
Simon S. "

Actually they should -NOT- use that hub model with a G5 at all based on the reports here in the last few months unless they revise the design to solve this problem. Last night I checked the iMac G5 developer docs (firewire ports section) which notes the FW bus voltage is (nominally) 24V (vs 25V for the G5 tower specs) and although the dev docs say it's regulated, some other sources say it's not. (As I mentioned here back in august (below), I checked my 2003 G5 tower FW bus voltage - it read 25.06V, but I was not able to monitor the voltage under load or over time using just my voltmeter and two thin probes in a FW cable connector. I can't recommend you try that as it's -very- easy to short the probes.)
Some other macs have lower FW bus voltages than the G5s, but at least one has higher specs as I mentioned when this issue came up originally back in August. (And unlike other macs in the past, the iMac G5's firewire ports have power present even when the system is off apparently.)

If you missed it when this issue came up back in August, see below for links to the MacAlly and Dlink pages on specific models that have this problem, as well as the past info and details from G5 tower owners. (And blown LEDs in some FW cables were also noted there in the general FW feedback section.) There's also reports here on other FW hubs that did not have this problem.
But if there's any doubt - verify with the mfr of any FW hub you're considering for an iMac G5 or G5 tower that they have tested it with those systems before buying it.

(Nov. 3rd update follows)
Back in August I posted warnings here and at the main site news page on damage to some specific FW + USB Hubs from MacAlly (HUB-UF) and Dlink (DFB-H7) when connected to a PowerMac G5 (see below), reportedly caused by the hubs not being rated for the bus voltage of the G5 - which although higher than some older macs, it is still below the firewire spec. of up to 30V (and there should be a 10% margin in the design).
An iMac G5 owner wrote he also saw damage to a macally hub (due to the same issue I'm sure)

" I purchased a MacAlly USB2.0 + Firewire hub from Amazon.com recently.

I connected it to my new G5 iMac and connected the external power supply. Connected a USB printer to the hub. No problem at first.

Later, I was upstairs and one of my children told me they smelled plastic burning.

My wife said it seemed to be the new computer. I thought maybe the iMac was running hot. It felt a little warm, and I didn't notice the smell being strong.

Later I tried to connect another USB device to the hub and noticed that the new device did not power up. Then I noticed that no lights were showing on the hub. Unplugged the power supply to the hub and then noticed that the lights came on? Looking more closely at the hub, I saw that it was severely melted on the side to which the Power Supply connected. I quickly removed it from my system,

No apparent damage to my computer or peripherals.

The serial number on the hub is 4143000863.
I mailed the hub back to amazon.com and then, later, wondering if this was a common problem, I searched with google and found this article. (there were several news page posts on this earlier this year - see below for previous reports/details.-Mike)

I feel lucky that it didn't damage my computer or set my wooden desk on fire!
Todd R. "

Warning/Notes on Some G5 Incompatible Firewire Hubs: (August 24th, 2004)
A reader sent links to the known problems with PowerMac G5's firewire bus and some hubs like the MacAlly FW/USB 2.0 and Dlink DFB-H7 FW/USB 2.0 Hubs:

Another reader replied with more details:

" Mike, The problem with the MacAlly hub is that it cannot tolerate the higher FireWire bus power voltage of the G5.

The FireWire spec states that bus power may be in the range of +8 to +30VDC. (Actually some apple's dev docs I've seen note 8 to 33V, perhaps the extra 3v at the high end is for a 10% margin.) The G5 supplies +25V, which is considerable higher than previous PowerMacs. (I was sure I had seen 24V (no load) voltage on even the B&W G3 - so I checked apple's dev docs and 24V is shown on pin 1 of the B&W G3 FW400 pinout. Also 25V is listed per Apple's dev docs for the PowerMac G4 - same as the PowerMac G5 dev docs (all 3 versions of the G5 dev docs). So either the Apple dev. docs are wrong or the actual voltage is higher than Apple's spec for the G5. Spot checking other models shows the eMac spec'd at 17-24V, the iMac G4 Flat Panel specs show 12V for the 15in/17in and 24V for the 20in model. The Feb 2000 PowerMac G4 (aka Sawtooth) dev docs shows 30V per the dev docs. (All specs at no load)-Mike)

Looks like the onboard power converter cannot handle the entire range of potential FireWire bus power....I confirmed this info with one of my Taiwan engineering friends.
It is a good hub, and I own several of them. I just don't connect them to my G5.
The D-Link may be suffering a similar design flaw.
Mike "

BTW - I checked the no-load FW400 bus Voltage on my early DP G5 and it read 25.06V (agrees with apple spec for G5, and same voltage listed in the MDD G4 docs).

He's a report from a Dlink Hub owner confirming their note in red (ref: DLink DFB-H7 hub support page w/warning) about the G5 firewire bus voltage issue:

" Sure enough I had my DFB-H7 D-Link hub connected to my G5 2.5Ghz via USB and Firewire and suddenly I heard a loud pop and my iSight and FW compact flash reader stopped working.

After reading what was going on I decided to void my warranty "But they will probably take it back. I reassembled it pretty good" and opened up the hub. One of the capacitors near the voltage regulator had exploded leaving marks on the case and spreading it's internals all over the inside of the hub. I wonder if this has anything to do with all those leaking and exploding capacitors that plagued the electronics world last year.
James "

I asked James if he still had the blown capacitor (to read its rating and mfr ID.) The MacAlly Hub FAQ page also notes some G5 owners reported a "pop" (goes the cap...) when connected to a G5 Firewire bus. Some other hubs do not have this (design) problem. If any G5 owners are using a Hub not already reported here, let me know and I'll add your info. Thanks.

Here's two previous G5 owner reports on using the MacAlly FW/USB Hub:

(added 8/24/2004)
" RE: Macally HUB-UF (Hub)
As per your on-line query regarding usage of the Macally HUB-UF.
I purchased TWO of these USB 2.0/FIrewire hubs (Serial Numbers 3472000248 and 310100331) - yes I DO have a lot of peripherals - through my Universities computer store. I hooked them up to my dual 2.0 G5 powermac (with the supplied power adapters plugged in as stated in the manual) and they both died within a week.

Furthermore, I bought one of the new Macally PCI combo Firewire/USB 2.0 cards to replace the dead hubs. Initially, it appeared to work okay in the G5 but occasionally USB and firewire devices connected to it "just would not be there". More importantly, I discovered that the G5 COULD NOT BOOT FROM THE CD when the card was inserted in any of the 3 PCI slots (G5 fans reached maximum speed though when trying to boot from the CD....). This is not a problem with a different manufacturers combo PCI card which has worked flawlessly. I moved the Macally combo card to a dual 1.42 G4 Mac in my lab and everything seems to be ok there - more testing is required though as that machine is not heavily used.

At this point I will not purchase any future Macally products nor do I recommend others to buy these particular Macally products.
. Mark S"

Another failure report on the MacAlly FW/USB hub from a G5 owner:

(added 8/24/2004)
" I have one of these HUBs also bought from buy.com around the same date as the original poster (a MDD owner in the 8/24 news page reported his S/N 4xxxx MacAlly hub had a PS short/meltdown shortly after using the AC adapter) and mine is broken as well (or at least the power supply is). The hub seemed to function OK until I plugged in the power supply, upon doing that my G5 immediately shut off (which was rather interesting). I booted the machine back up and noticed that the HUB was getting incredibly hot around where the power supply is connected. I unplugged the power supply and everything has been working OK.

As a test I hooked up an universal RatShack power supply set to 12V center positive and the HUB did not get hot and seemed to behave correctly (i.e. I could hook up high power USB devices to it). The radio shack supply only provides 800mA vs the Macally's 2.5 which might make a difference if some part in the Macally hub can't handle that much amperage.

I just tried checking the Voltage and Amperage coming out of the Macally adapter but I think its totally fried now...

I've sent several emails to Macally tech support which have all been ignored. Kind of disappoint because this hub has a really nice design....

The Serial Number 4143000511
Paul H "

I asked Paul if he heard the "Pop" mentioned in the MacAlly FAQ item on G5 problems w/this hub and he said no sound was heard.

" Hi Mike. I have had no problems with Macally (HUB-UF) USB 2.0 and Firewire Hub attached to twin 1.8GHz G5. Usb attached devices: Epson Stylus Color 900 printer, Epson Expression 2400. Firewire attached devices: EZQuest BOA CDRW 24X10X40, EZQuest COBRA+ 60GB HD
Glenn M "

Glenn's report is one of the few on the MacAlly FW+USB Hub model that did not note damage when connected to a G5's Firewire port. (Perhaps it's an earlier model with higher FW voltage rating. I'd personally not connect one of these to a G5's FW ports after reading the other warnings - and MacAlly's own page warns of this also.)


Belkin 7-Port FW Hub: (Jan 20th, 2004)

"Hi Mike, Had Problems with my iSight camera in combination with the 7Port (FW) Hub from Belkin. The camera works if connected directly to the G5. (Does not work over the Belkin 7Port HUB. )
The error message is.
Your Camera is in use by another Application
(that error message rings bell, from the older page here on iChatAV beta reports)

Same Problem with my Firewire 400 20GB external Disks. Both are not working. (if connected to the hub I assume)
It worked with 10.2.8.

My configuration is, G5 1,8Ghz, 1,5GB RAM, 160GB Maxtor and 160GB Hitachi, OS X 10.3.2
Regards
Cutuna A.
(I asked if he had applied the 5.1.4 firmware update for the G5)
Yes. Firmware is 5.1.4.
The FW Drives are Oxford 911 (FW400) Chipsets.
Same Problem with my Cube. 450Mhz. The Pyro Camera is not recognized. "


G5 owner reports on USB 2.0 (only) Hubs: (see above for Firewire Hub reports and warnings from Dlink and MacAlly on their Combo FW/USB Hubs)

(Feb. 25th, 2005)

" Hi Mike
I've been using a Keyspan 4 port USB 1 (1.1) hub for years and it's worked fine. I just bought a new Belkin 7 port USB 2.0 hub and it doesn't seem to work with my MOTU MTPAV midi interfaces. On every cold boot of the computer the midi interfaces are not recognised until I unplug them and plug them back in. This has never happened with the Keyspan hub.
-Kevan S.
G5 Dual 2GHz, OS 10.3.8
MOTU MTPAV (2)
Belkin 7 Port USB 2 hub (this is the black one with 5 ports on the back and two facing straight up on the top)
BTW This hub also gets incredibly hot. The Keyspan barely gets warm. "

I asked if he has to unplug/replug the Mini interface every time he boots (cold start).


(Jan 14th, 2004) Here's the latest G5 owner reports on them from last night and this morning.

Another (OK) report on the Adaptec USB 2.0 hub:

" I am using the Adaptec XHUB7+ without any problems so far. The USB 2.0 Hub has external power, a great overall quality and looks very stylish on your desk.
I have connected a HP 5550C scanner along with an external DVD-RW/DVD+RW drive. Everything works fine.
Hope I could help,
Kind Regards,
Sebastian M. (Cologne, Germany)
For Details look at this Adaptec page. "


" Hi Mike,
Dual 1.8s here with Stratitec USB 2.0 4 port hub. If I have my mouse plugged into it, it WILL eventually freeze the entire computer playing in WarCraft III Frozen Throne.
This is my 2nd hub and I've tried both the stock 2.0 ports and 5port USB 2.0 card I have installed. I currently have my mouse plugged directly into my USB 2.0 card-- no freezes.
John "


" Just thought I'd mention that I was having all kinds of USB 2 problems -- randomly dropped connections to USB devices, thumb drives that wouldn't mount, and corrupt photo transfers from a Compact Flash card reader (2 different makes.) I finally pinpointed that the problem was my third-party RAM. After running the Apple Hardware test disk and getting memory errors, I took out the RAM and everything worked fine.
I think this is worth a shot for anyone having USB 2 problems.
Best, Tim S. "


" Belkin 7 port USB 2.0 hub on Dual 2GHz G5 running Mac OS 10.3.2. Have APC back-UPS 1000 RS, Epson Perfection 1670 scanner (USB 2.0), Telex M-560 microphone, VST floppy disk, Epson Stylus C80 printer, so far connected, two top ports still free.
Things seem to work just fine. Not currently using PowerChute software for APC unit though. G4 user suspected PowerChute, but G5 user finds it works fine.
Bradley D. "


" Hi. Love the site. I have a Keyspan 4 Port USB 2.0 hub on a PM G5 Dual 2Gig, running OS X 10.3.2.
Hooked up to the KeySpan hub, I have an HP 952C, HP 5150, Epson Stylus Photo 900 hooked up via an Ambicom Bluetooth printer module, and my Apple keyboard.

I have not had any problems with anything hooked up to the hub.

I do have a strange problem with sleep on my G5 though. When it goes to sleep itself, no issues. If I manually put it to sleep, 3 minutes later the fans begin to speed up. After 4 or 5 minutes the fans are blowing away. Once I wake it up (it always wakes up) the fans stop?
Regards, Rich "

If the G5's fans are running when it's in 'sleep' mode, then the system is not really in deep sleep. if the OS is not running and the system isn't really in deep sleep there's no fan/thermal control, so the fans run (i.e. a fail-safe mode). The same thing happens when in FW target disk mode and when running the Hardware Test CD. (Try disconnecting any attached 3rd party devices including the hub as a test.) This same issue (fans running in "sleep" mode) has been reported also with some PCI cards that are not deep sleep compatible.


" Mike,
No problems with my $19.95 Stratitec 4 port USB 2.0 Hub, bought at Sam's Club. The System Profiler says it's got an NEC controller inside.
I have a Keyspan twin serial adaptor (for a Palm Vx and an X-10 controller), a Canon i850 printer, and a Canon Lide 30 scanner all connected to this powered hub and have had no issues.
Steve S. "


(Jan. 13th, 2004) In reply to two previous G5/USB 2.0 Hub problem reports (below), two other G5 owners wrote saying they're using USB 2.0 hubs OK:

" Hey there, I have an Adaptec XHub7+ (7 port USB 2.0 "hi-speed" hub) connected to a Dual 2.0 G5. So far I've had no stability problems. The Adaptec hub has the following peripherals plugged into it: (And up until last month it also had a Handspring Visor Prism Sync/Charging base plugged in.)

  • Epson 1280 USB printer
  • Emagic AMT8 MIDI interface
  • Emagic XSkey dongle
  • Logitech MX700 wireless mouse base station
  • Griffin iMate
  • Belkin 4 port USB 1.1 hub (which has the following plugged into it)
    - SanDisk SD card reader
    - Novation Remote 25 MIDI controller keyboard

You might be wondering why I have a 4 port hub plugged into a 7 port when I'm not filling all the ports of the 7. The reason is because the MIDI controller that's plugged into the 4 port gets its power from the USB hub (it has a wall-wart for power), and for some reason the Adaptec hub (which also has a wall-wart) doesn't supply enough power for the keyboard, so I had to keep the Belkin hub.
Ed (aka FreakTornado)
The G5 is running OSX 10.3.2 with 1.5GB RAM "

A G5 owner w/Belkin USB 2.0 Hub wrote:

" Mike,I have a Belkin 4-port USB 2.0 hub connected to my Dual 2GHz G5. No problems at all. Connected to the hub I have:

  • Epson Perfection 2400 scanner (USB 2.0 device)
  • Canon i950 Printer (USB 1.1 device) (my Canon i900D is has a USB 2.0 interface.-Mike)
  • Generic external USB 2.0 case with a CD/RW drive

I normally don't sleep my machine but the few times I have it woke without issues. The URL for the hub I have is here
It's been replaced by another model.
Bruce "

Two G5 owners previously reported problems with USB 2.0 hubs:

" New 2gb DP w/3.5GB RAM running 10.3.2, all known updates applied.
Keyspan USB hub removed per Apple's advice after computer wouldn't wake from sleep (hub was fine on 2 previous G4's). Still having a problem with Kensington Turbo Mouse Pro randomly freezing the machine, both when plugged directly into the USB port and into the keyboard. The mouse worked fine on 2 previous G4's. There are no additional cards or devices plugged into the machine.
David W.
Subia Albuquerque "

This G5 owner reported problems with USB 2.0 Hubs connected to a Midi Interface:

" Hi Mike, I've read the G5/USB FAQ on your great site. Nevertheless, I have encountered a strange problem when trying to use a MOTU MIDI interface behind a USB 2.0 hub.

I'm using a MOTU micro lite MIDI interface. It works as advertised, when connected to an Apple G5 directly. When using a USB 2.0 hub between the Mac and the micro lite with the micro being the only device present on the USB hub, erroneous MIDI data is sent from the computer to the MIDI device. For example when using a motorized fader box connected to the micro lite, when moving one fader with DP 4.11, other faders get updated with erroneous values.

This is the third USB 2.0 hub of two different brands that I'm testing, all of them showed identical behaviors. So I figure that it's not the hubs' fault.

The micro lite's manual states that ANY USB hub would do fine. This does not seem to be the case. As I need a hub I'd like to request your help on how to attach a hub for a second micro lite I'd need to integrate into the setup.
system info:
Apple G5 2x2GHz (I asked if he had updated the G5 firmware to 5.1.4-Mike)
OS X.2.8
USB 2.0 hub of two generic brands, different USB 2.0 compatible cables tested, powered and un-powered operation modes tried
MOTU micro lite as only device, MOTU-supplied USB cable
MOTU MIDI Driver usbx_1.22
MOTU PCI-424, 2408 mkIII + 308
DP 4.11

Thanks for ANY hint on what to try, I'm kind of desperate!
Regards, Torsten B
(I asked if he had updated the firmware to 5.1.4)
Yes of course, I had forgotten to mention this. So far no response from the maker of the MIDI interface. Ill keep you posted in case they do have something to say about this. "

If any G5 owners have used a USB 2.0 hub without problems, let me know the details.

G5 Owner Reports on other USB and Firewire devices or PCI Cards:(most recent first)
(Note: for previous Tech Info on G5 PCI card compatibility and notes on PCI Audio Cards, SCSI cards, etc. - see the PCI section of our G5 tech info page.)

Via vt6306 4-Port (3 ext./1 internal) FW400 PCI card:

" Thanks for all the helpful info...
I have a Dual G5/1.8 PCI-X running 10.4.8. Seemed to have blown my firewire ports a few weeks back and started looking for a PCI firewire card. Heard good things about the VIA chipset, so I tried the VIA VT6306 3+1 firewire card (listed as PCI 2.1 compliant, which is what the G5 requires).
No complaints--works great in the top slot.
Seems to support deep sleep and is generally more robust than the built-in firewire was (before it died). I can now use some old cables that I couldn't use with the built-in firewire, for instance. (I asked for more details on this. I've not had any problems using various FW cables with my 2003 G5 tower onboard FW, although there's been notes here in the past on blown LEDs on some FW cables that have them (due to G5's onboard FW voltage, also see notes here about some FW hub issues like that - due to hubs not rated for voltages that are in the upper side of the FW spec).-Mike)
Haven't tried target disk mode.
http://www.meritline.com/via-vt6306-4-ports-pci-to-ieee-1394-firewire-controller-card.html - $12
-Chad W. "
OrangeUSB 2.0 and Sonnet Tango 2.0 FW/USB cards:

(added 1/19/2006)
" I recently retired my dual 1.25Ghz G4 PowerMac and replaced it with a dual 2.7Ghz. After years of having Deep Sleep problems with the G4 due to PCI (USB and Firewire) card incompatibilities, I finally set out to try to solve the problem for the G5. When I first moved my existing PCI cards to the new G5, the Deep Sleep problems continued. But, after a bit of research on xlr8yourmac.com, combined with some good old fashioned trial and error, I finally came up with a combination of two PCI cards that (together) give me an additional 2 external Firewire 400 ports plus an additional 6 external USB 2.0 ports and do it WITHOUT any Deep Sleep problems.

As other owners have already figured out, it's not so much "the card" as what's plugged into the PCI card. With regard to Deep Sleep on the Mac, these aftermarket PCI cards just don't seem to like any kind of "storage" device attached to them. But, for me at least, Deep Sleep works just fine with my other non-storage devices.

So, here's the scoop on my hardware and what's plugged into each:

* Orange Micro "OrangeUSB" USB 2.0 PCI Card - This card has four external USB 2.0 ports. The four peripherals I have plugged into those four ports are: Epson 2200 printer, Epson R200 printer, Dymo LabelWriter 330 printer and Brother MC-8440 printer.

* Sonnet "Tango 2.0" Firwire/USB Combo PCI Card - This card has two external USB 2.0 ports and two external Firewire 400 ports (plus one of each as internal ports - currently unused). One of the external USB ports is taken by my Harman/Kardon SoundStick speakers and one of the external Firewire 400 ports is taken by my iPod. The remaining two external ports (one USB and one Firewire) are currently unused.

* I am also using all of the G5's built-in rear ports as well. The G5's two rear USB ports are taken by my keyboard (Apple) and by my SanDisk Multimedia Card Reader (for Compact Flash, Secure Digital, etc.). The G5's rear Firewire 400 port is taken by the cable to my Mini-DV camcorder. The G5's rear Firewire 800 port is taken by my external hard drive enclosure.

That's it. A grand total of eight rear USB ports (7 taken), three rear Firewire 400 ports (two taken) and one rear Firewire 800 port (taken). With this arrangement, my G5 (Mac OS 10.4.4) enters Deep Sleep and wakes from Deep Sleep just fine.

I should point out that the "culprit" peripherals that caused Deep Sleep problems when they were plugged into the PCI cards are the external hard drive (when using Firewire 400) and, more importantly, the SanDisk Multimedia Card Reader (USB). The Deep Sleep problem always followed these two devices. Interestingly, my iPod (also connected via Firewire 400) doesn't cause any Deep Sleep problems.

So, there you have it. I'm not sure if other G5 owners will be as "lucky" as me but I think they can greatly improve their chances if they change their connections around to keep "storage" devices away from the PCI card ports.
Mark "


Sonnet Allegro USB 2.0 PCI Card Report

(added 1/17/2006)
" Your site has been indispensable for finding a new USB 2 card for my G5 Tower (Original 1.8ghz single processor system with PCI-X). I purchased the Sonnet Allegro USB 2.0 PCI Card (www.sonnettech.com/product/allegro_usb2.html) at the Macworld Expo (SF 2006).
It will deep sleep in my tower with nothing plugged into it.
However, it appears on my system if I plug in any device that draws power from the card then the computer will half go to sleep where I can't wake it up anymore. The system stays on but the monitor turns off and I can't wake it.
If I only plug in devices that have their own power sources then the computer will sleep just fine. Right now I have a printer and a UPS system plugged in and it sleeps. If I plug in my USB card reader that draws power from the card, or my keyboard or mouse, it won't sleep properly.
Hope that helps,
Steven M. "


Another SIIG FireWire 3-Port PCI-X Card Report

(added 8/30/2005)
"Based on the SIIG FireWire 3-Port PCI-X Card Report below, I got the same card from the same supplier. Made sure it was the exact same model number, (Part #: nn-400m12-s6) which is hard to find. Installed in the newest version of G5 dual 2GHz, running 10.4.1 and 10.4.2.
Computer can deep sleep even when plugged in devices are on, including a Samsung T-165 HD tuner. Computer wakes properly too, after a months use, it is a great success.
-Mapster "


OWC FW400/USB 2.0 PCI Card:

" Recently purchased Other World Computing OWC combo USB 2.0/Firewire 400 card. Initially web site did not indicate G5 incompatability and I was assured by sales rep that there shouldn't be a problem but if there was they'd take care of things. Thats nice! Price was very attractive so I bit. Anyway the card has the NEC chipset and under Tiger 10.4.2 I can put my G5 1.6ghz, 2gig ram, Radeon 9800 SE system into sleep but it will not wake up. Only a hard reset will bring things back. This is with either with nothing plugged in or an external western digital media center hard drive with firewire. At times when the machine was sitting idle at log on the screen the fans would gradually ramp up into leaf blower mode until I did a hard power down. (if the OS isn't fully loaded/running, there's no system fan control and the fans will ramp up to full speed as a 'fail safe' mode. You see this for cards that don't support deep sleep and either don't allow full sleep or don't properly allow waking from sleep.-Mike)
Once card has been removed there is no problem in putting system to sleep and no further fan hijinks. Ironic that I had ordered another such card in the interim and revisited the OWC site to find that they've added extra material to the card description that says it is not G5 compatible. Needless to say the two cards are going back. Hope this helps someone.
-David "


Another Adaptec Duoconnect PCI Card report:

(added 7/25/2005)
"Adaptec DuoConnect and G5 with PCI-X
According to Adaptec, the DuoConnect (AUA-3121 or AUA-3020) are both compatible with 3.3v PCI and PCI-X slots however I have been unable to get the card to work reliably in my Dual 2GHz G5 with PCI-X.

If I plug in a single FireWire device, it works fine. If however I plug in even a single USB device at the same time as the FireWire is plugged in, the FireWire device stalls for 30 seconds at a time.

Has anyone else encountered this problem or actually made this PCI card work in a PCI-X Dual G5? Adaptec is pointing the finger at Apple's drivers or an incompatibility with the G5 PCI-X slots.

(For the record I asked John for his OS X version and examples of devices he connected that showed the problem.-Mike)
Initially I had connected 3 USB devices - an APC UPS, a Brother MFC-5200C printer/scanner/fax, and an old Imation Superdisk. These seemed to work fine although they are all USB 1.1 devices. I also had connected a LaCie AIT-2 tape drive via FireWire. Retrospect 6 would lose connection with the tape shortly after starting a backup, so I thought maybe it was some sort of Retrospect incompatibility. I then tried a LaCie d2 DVD-RW tape connected to the card instead of the tape. This is where I was able to begin to see the slowdowns and time them. When I would try to copy something off the DVD, the activity light would come on for a second then go off for almost exactly 30 seconds. Disconnecting all the USB devices would allow the DVD to resume normal operation after about a minute.

I tried various USB devices, both 1.1 and 2.0 and even tried putting the DVD-RW on the USB side.
I tried the card in both slot 4 and slot 2. Initially I was on Server 10.3.7. I upgraded to 10.3.9, then 10.4 and 10.4.1 with the same results. (The 10.4.2 update may also not have helped but I would have tried it since it was posted some time back.-Mike) I even tried a clean install of 10.4 Client on a FireWire hard disk (attached to an internal port). Always the same result.

Below the final email exchange with Adaptec. Some of their comments were always of the "did you try this" category, and occasionally they would give me Windows-only replies like "this card doesn't work in multi-processor machines" and point me to a support bulletin, only to find out that the "single processor only" was for Windows 2000 or XP. Some were more blatantly wrong or contradictory like "did you connect power to the card". One response told me that the AUA-3121 was just different packaging from the AUA-3020 (which I have) but was same exact card. A later response after they told me to connect power to it stated that the older AUA-3121 had a power connector but the AUA-3020 did not.

I have given up, I wasted many hours on this card. The card seems to work OK in a Blue & White G3, but is totally uncooperative in my early PCI-X G5 Dual 2GHz.
John D.
JEDtech Consulting, LLC"

I don't own one of these cards personally but there's 2 previous DUOconnect PCI card reports below from owners of PCI-X slot G5 macs (including dual processor models). They generally commented on deep sleep support however.

SIIG FireWire 3-Port PCI-X Card

(added 6/29/2005)
" Hi Mike, I thought I'd add this nice bit of news to your PCI card database reports. I have a Rev. A 1.8GHz Dualie/Radeon 9650/160GB & 250GB HDs/6GB RAM/Bluetooth/Airport Extreme G5 PowerMac, which is my main machine for work. It's a great G5, and does what it's supposed to do without a whimper, but as you know there are only two FireWire 400 ports on the back, one in front.

I have a 160GB backup FireWire HD, recently added a second 400GB FireWire backup HD, and also have a couple of cameras, plus a second DVR-109BL (BK?-Mike) in a FireWire case, so I was hurting for ports. Didn't want to go with a FireWire hub, as I've heard nothing but problems with I/O issues using them. So I spent about an hour on Sunday using Google, PriceGrabber, PriceMac.com, and BizRate trying to find a PCI-X compatible 3-port (or more) FireWire card.
I finally went directly to SIIG's web pages and they had quite a few options, but there was one FireWire 3-Port card that was made specifically for the Mac, which surprised me. I thought I'd be stuck with the Belkin unit, which apparently doesn't allow Deep Sleep, and only has a 1-year warranty. Anyway, to make it short, the SIIG web page specifically says that this card is compatible with PCI and PCI-X Macs, both 3.3 and 5-volt slots. Here's the page:
http://www.siig.com/product.asp?query=nn-400m12-s6&pid=986

So I found Upgrade Source for a vendor, and ordered it online Sunday evening--it cost=$34 with no tax, free shipping. I just finished testing it in my G5, and am happy to report that under Tiger 10.4.1 it supports Deep Sleep, even with three active FireWire devices attached. I burned a DVD using MTRipper and Popcorn just a few minutes ago using the DVR-109 external burner hooked up to the SIIG card, and it worked perfect. Also, I transferred one of my photo albums with about 1.8GB data from the G5 to my new FireWire Drive, with the drive hooked up to the SIIG card, and all is well.

So we have a winner here. I don't know how many G5 owners are using this card, if any, but I didn't see a rating for it in your database. I hope this helps someone, sometime, getting a FireWire PCI-X compatible card. Oh, the best part, it has a Lifetime Warranty!
Best Regards, David C. "

Another Adaptec DUOconnect FW/USB 2.0 PCI card report:

(added 4/1/2005)
"I have seen mostly negative reports on PCI firewire/USB cards on your web site. (as far as deep sleep support, which can be affected by attached devices.-Mike) So, I didn't expect much when I put an Adaptec Duoconnect card in my new G5 dual 2.5. I find it working fine, including deep sleep support (light pulsating, fans stopped) with the my iSight and an Epson Perfection 2450 Photo connected to the firewire ports and an iPod dock connected to a USB 2.0 port.

Sleep doesn't work with an iPod in the dock, though. Even if I dismount the iPod first, the computer will go into deep sleep but will not awake if I leave the iPod in the dock.

Since this meets my needs, as long as I remember to take the iPod out of the dock before putting the compute to sleep, I am happy.
Mike "

There a past report on the Adaptec Duoconnect card below from summer 2004 that reported a problem with deep sleep support with some devices connected, but didn't test w/o anything connected to the card.

Sonnet Allegro FW400A PCI card:

(added 3/30/2005)
"I am writing you to report some problems associated with the installation of Sonnet Allegro FW400A PCI card onto my G5 dual 2.5 Ghz.
The G5's built-in firewire ports stopped functioning all the sudden, after a force reboot. (although the FW ports could have failed, I asked if he tried resetting the NVRAM via Open Firmware (see FAQ). If they still didn't work I'd boot from the hardware test CD and run the tests but I'm not sure it really functionally tests the firewire ports. (when my Cube FW ports failed the HW test CD would not show that.) If after resetting the NVRAM even target disk mode fails, then the FW ports must have failed.-Mike) Installation of the Allegro card seemed the best move because: 1) I'm in the middle of a large project and can't let go the CPU for weeks, and 2) I could utilize extra firewire ports.

After installation, I have noticed the following:
1) The presence of the PCI card itself does not allow the CPU to go into the 'deep sleep' mode. This is quite irritating, especially when you leave the computer for a while, then come back to find the CPU half-asleep with fans blowing like mad! The machine would not go to deep-sleep with or without devices attached to the port.

2) While in the Firewire target disk mode, the Allegro card won't function at all. This is just inconvenient. While I don't know much about what goes behind the target disk mode, I assume the card's driver has nothing to do with it. I could however boot the CPU with an external Firewire hard drive (an iPod, that is) connected to the Allegro card; this way I can run DiskWarrior and other drive utilities nicely.

Beside these two issues, I see no problem with it. My CPU configuration is as follows:

Machine Model: Power Mac G5
CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (3.0)
Number Of CPUs: 2
CPU Speed: 2.5 GHz
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 1.25 GHz
Boot ROM Version: 5.1.8f7

Allegro FW400 Firewire PCI card:
Type: ieee1394
Bus: PCI
Slot: SLOT-4
Vendor ID: 0x11c1
Device ID: 0x5811
Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x11c1
Subsystem ID: 0x5811
Revision ID: 0x0061

System Software Overview:
System Version: Mac OS X 10.3.8 (7U16)
Kernel Version: Darwin 7.8.0

I hope the information above can be helpful. Thank you very much for your time.
Sincerely, Oki M. "

Koutech FW/USB 2.0 PCI Card

(added 2/1/2005)
" hi mike, per one of the recommendations from a reader (I didn't find any past reports here or on the pre-G5 Firewire/USB card feedback page on any Koutech cards-Mike), i purchased a Koutech PCI card with FW and USB 2.0 for my Powermac dual 2.0 G5 (rev. A) running 10.3.7. i got it from newegg. the newegg site lists the card as "OS X compatible" so i was excited, as the price is very good. i installed it first in the middle pci slot (#3) and nothing showed up in ASP. i then installed it in slot #2, right next to the video card - and nothing showed up in ASP. finally, in slot #4, i was able to get my FW hard drives and iPods to show up.
but when i forced the computer to sleep, it woke up with nothing mounted on the desktop. i unplugged all the FW devices and replugged them and nothing happened. finally, when i restarted with everything plugged in, the USB devices plugged into the G5 itself did not work. i had to shut down via the G5 power button. i just removed the card completely and everything works fine again.

this is disappointing, as both the koutech website and newegg said the card was "OS X compatible". now, it may work in G4 powermacs, but not in the G5, so it may indeed be OS X compatible. however, neither the box nor the instruction manual lists or notes OS X compatibility.

any thoughts would be appreciated and if anyone has found a G5 compatible FW/USB 2.0 PCI card, i would definitely buy it. none of the reported cards so far seem to work sufficiently well.
thanks, grant"

Sonnet Allegro USB 2.0 PCI Card:

(added 2/1/2005 from Jan 26th email)
"I tried. I read posts on many boards and your great set of feedback reports and finally settled on a Sonnett Allegro USB 2.0 PCI card (with NEC chip). (no other reports here on the Allegro card before) I pulled the card out today.

Here's my set-up
2.5GHZ G5, NVIDIA 6800GT, 4GB RAM, OSX 10.3.5. 23" Apple Cinema Display

Here's my USB devices connected
Apple keyboard
Logitech MX700 mouse
Wacom Graphire3 tablet
Epson Stylus 1270 printer
Griffin Powermate

I tried every combination of G5 USB ports and the Sonnett card ports. I had a few but bothersome no wake from sleep episodes. In addition some of the USB devices lost their connection even without the wake from sleep problem. I unpluged everything from the Sonnett card and got rid of the sleep problem but still had USB devices get confused or unresponsive.
All of these USB devices were working fine before I installed the card.
Mike"

Another Sonnet Tango Combo Card Report:

(added 8/20/2004)
"Just thought I would give you an update on the Sonnet Tango 2.0 ... I think the reason that the cards don't support deep sleep is because they are drawing power all the time when peripherals are attached. (if the attached drive is AC powered (like a 3.5" FW drive), it does not draw power from the card. However bus powered drives do of course, as do some other FW and USB devices. However the reason I ask to also test w/o any devices connected to cards is that some devices do not support powering down/sleep mode themselves and therefore could be a factor in the system having sleep problems.)

I have a dual 2g G5 Bought in December 2003. I installed the card - it said Rev B on it (Not sure if past reports on this card were using rev B models or not) - and without anything attached, I put the G5 to sleep. No problems. Deep sleep. (assuming all fans Off, and G5's power LED pulsing.)

I attached a couple of firewire drives (MacAlly PHR100AC) (are they bus powered or AC powered?) and put it to sleep ... Hit and miss ... Mostly miss. (As a test, try dragging the volume (drive Icon) to the trash to unmount it and then see if the system will deep sleep. May not but I'm just curius.)

Most annoying thing was that when the fans revved up to hurricane force, I could not wake the machine. I had to do a power-button shutdown and then restart. BUT if I dismounted the drives AND powered them off, the system goes into deep sleep.

Tried the same with the USB 2.0 connections. No luck. The card is always drawing power and that keeps the system from deep sleep.

I was able to "prove" that by using a little mini hub I have for my PowerBook. The green lights always stay on. (if the hub is not AC adapter powered then you're seeing the card supply USB power to it which is normal.)

So my guess is that until Apple or somebody is able to :shut down the card" they will not support deep sleep when things are attached.
Stephen "

Actually that really isn't the problem - if the attached device does not support sleep mode, nothing apple can do about that normally. And some cards just do not allow deep sleep even with no devices attached as reported here previously (and on the non-G5 reports on Firewire/USB card deep sleep support). I hear from a FW800 card vendor that 10.4 is claimed to solve the FW800 card deep sleep problem which happens even if no devices are connected to it.

Lacie FW800 card w/10.3.5: (Updated - system not really in deep sleep)

" Hi Mike, Been reading that people have problems with Deep Sleep with PCI cards installed. (with many but not all types of cards - FW/FW+USB cards seem to have had the least success in general though, and no FW800 card to date has been reported to support deep sleep (in any mac).)

I just got a LaCie 2 Port FireWire 800 PCI Card:

   Type:	ieee1394
   Bus:	PCI
   Slot:	SLOT-3
   Vendor ID:	0x104c
   Device ID:	0x8025
   Subsystem Vendor ID:	0x55aa
   Subsystem ID:	0x55aa
   Revision ID:	0x0001

Letting the G5 go to sleep with internal HD spinning down etc. seems to work fine... The fans do not go in to full hurricane force. Quiet as a mouse. (I assumed he meant the fans are totally OFF, with system power button LED pulsing, but when I asked to verify that he wrote the fans were still running - So the system is not really in deep sleep. I asked if he would test w/o any devices connected to the card.)
Just tested again with 8 x IBM 160GB Drives in Rack-mount Googie FireWire HD enclosure attached to internal FW400 and ADVC-100 A/D Converter attached to FW800 PCI Card.

Internal SATA drives goes to sleep.
Monitor goes into deep sleeps
External FireWire HD's goes into sleep and wake up correctly.
External ADVC-100 A/D Converter on FW800 PCI Card works after wake.
Internal fans still turning but very quiet, turning over really. LED on front of G5 is steady, not pulsing. (emphasis mine, since fans still running/power LED not pulsing the system is -not- in deep sleep mode-Mike)
Ethernet connection to ADSL hub, OK on wake.
D-Link USB Bluetooth module, Ok on wake.
I don't know if this is the deep sleep everyone is talking about, (it's not) I do know that I couldn't ask for more. I rarely let it sleep... From what I've been reading I thought the fans would wind up to full blast, similar to removing the plastic door.

Setup is:

   Machine Model:	Power Mac G5 (Single)
   CPU Type:	PowerPC 970  (2.2)
   Number Of CPUs:	1
   CPU Speed:	1.8 GHz
   L2 Cache (per CPU):	512 KB
   Memory:	2 GB (8 x 256MB, 
   half original matched pairs from Apple, 
   half  match pairs from Crucial)
   Bus Speed:	900 MHz
   Boot ROM Version:	5.1.4f0
   System Version:	Mac OS X 10.3.5 (7M34)
   Kernel Version:	Darwin 7.5.0

Only problem I've been having is after switching users about 3 to 4 times, suddenly the mouse, not the computer, freezes, always in the login panel. I tried a deferent mouse and keyboard but made no difference and still happens with new updated 10.3.5. Luckily I can login and restart using the keyboard. I read of 2 other people having similar problem on the Apple Forums.
Keep up the great website.
Regards,
Charles T.
United Independent Pictures Ltd. "

One dual G5 owner with 10.3.5 freezes over time said removing some 3rd party addons solved it (report on the 10.3.5 feedback page here) - may not be a factor though (not sure if Charles has any 3rd party OS software addons).
If any other readers have tested deep sleep with a FW800 PCI card (any brand) let me know (include system/OS/card details in reports - thanks).


Sonnet Tango FW/USB 2.0 Card:
An early model G5 owner wrote that unlike the Dual 2.5GHz owner report (below), the Tango card didn't support sleep in his system:

(added 8/12/2004)
" I had the same card for a week in my dual 1.8 G5 (revision A) running 10.3.4 (this was prior to the new release). It did not wake up from deep sleep, even with all devices unplugged.

I was extremely disappointed when Sonnet would not refund my shipping either way (!!) when they expressly stated that the card was G5 compatible and confirmed this in emails to me. "Works in our machine" doesn't do it for me. I paid $20 to rent a card I couldn't use. Thanks guys.
Kazys V
(most cards that don't support deep sleep never really allow a power down, so the fans ramp up to full speed (failsafe mode since no OS running/no fan control software running). I asked him if the system actually went into deep sleep (no fans running, etc.))
No fans running, no wake up. Didn't matter if mouse was in usb port on monitor, on front of g5, on back of g5 or in card.
I guess that it went into deep sleep is "progress"! "

Here's the report from the Dual 2.5GHz owner:

(added 8/9/2004)
"Mike, Last night I installed the Sonnet Tango 2.0 USB/Firewire card in my (new rev) Dual 2.5GHz. This card has 2 USB 2 and 2 Firewire 400 ports. It seems to support Deep Sleep with devices attached. With attached devices powered down, Deep Sleep is normal with nearly instantaneous power up. With attached devices powered up (iPod or a FW depot drive), the machine takes a long time to go to sleep (20 to 30 seconds), but then wakes up and the devices are mounted. It seems as if the drives are being unmounted before sleep, but I must check to make sure.
With just my scanner and printer attached, deep sleep is normal. The iPod is the only powered device I've tried, and it works fine.
Of course, it's not PCI-X--but losing all the tangle of cables to/from my USB and Firewire hubs makes it worth it.
Jeff
(I asked if the systems fans stayed off in sleep)
Yes, all the system fans are off, and they stay off. This is something I haven't been able to do in several years, I don't remember which of my "primary" desktops with their various cards supported this feature last. "

I wonder if the new firmware/later OS X Build is a factor (I hear from a developer that 10.4 will have a fix for the FW800 PCI card Deep Sleep support problem also.)


CompUSA FW/USB 2.0 PCI Card: (Not G5 compatible)

(added 7/28/2004)
"Hi Mike, here's some info about the CompUSA USB 2.0/1394 Card in the G5.
I bought the CompUSA SKU#306475 USB 2.0/1394 PCI card today hoping it would work in the G5. I had checked the graphics at http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86513 ("How to Identify 3.3V and 5V PCI Cards") and the PCI card is a 32-bit 3.3v universal card but my Dual 2ghz won't power up with the card installed. I get a quick relay click along with a flash of the power light then it goes dead.
I installed the card in my Dual 533 G4 and the machine powers up and shows up under the profiler in 10.3.4 with all the ports. I've read success stories about the Adaptec DuoConnect in the G5 so I'm going to exchange this card for the Adaptec and give it a try. (Note: See the report directly below - G5 owner said the DuoConnect had sleep problems.) A heads up for others looking at using this CompUSA brand card in the G5. Brad "

FYI - Back in 2001 the older page here on CompUSA (boxed) FW/USB combo cards had notes and photos (down the page there) on more than one Compusa combo card design but not sure that is still true. (I.E. in the past the actual OEM supplier of the card/card chipset had changed.)

Adaptec DUOConnect combo FW/USB 2.0 PCI Card:

(added 7/23/2004)
"I have a Adaptec DUOCONNECT combo FW/USB 2.0 card plugged into my Dual 2GHz G5. I have the deep sleep problem with the inability to recover. A reboot must be initiated to start up computer. I have a FW DVD/Combo card reader/printer/Palm hooked up with none of the devices on.
I am returning the card today.
Thanks, Michael K.
(I asked if the card would allow sleep (w/o fans running - deep sleep) if no devices were connected to the card - and if having the combo drive On (but no media or discs inserted) mattered.)
Have returned the card to CompUSA. It had one "powered" device hooked up, a card reader (LED) and it caused the machine freeze in the deep sleep cycle. Did not try with devices removed. "


Belkin PCI Firewire400 (FSU501-APL) Card:

(added 4/2/2004 from email on 4/1)
"I bought a Firewire 400 PCI card from Belkin (FSU501-APL), and I've been noticing the exact same problem that the other G5 owner reported. (one of the earlier reports below)
I have a Dual 2 GHz G5, and I'm unable to get my computer to go to sleep without some of the fans coming on full blast. If I remove the card, the problem goes away. (this is due to the fact the card is not letting the system go into deep sleep - and w/o the OS running no fan control software is running - so the fans default to high-speed mode as a fail-safe-Mike)

Additionally, if the card only works in a 100 MHz PCI-X slot. I originally added it to the 133 MHz slot and the system would not recognize it.
Brett B. "


New Motion FW400 PCI Card

(added Feb. 6th, 2004)
"I recently upgraded to a G5/1.6GHz and tried one of my New Motion FW400 3 Port PCI cards to overcome a problem with my Canon DV camera's requirement to have a FW BUS all to itself.

Using 10.3.2 It worked fine...the only thing that happened was that sleep mode problem when the box thought it was an air-conditioning unit and ran the fans flat out. (i.e. no Deep Sleep Support, so fans run at full blast)
Cheers, Ray B. "


Lacie Firewire800 PCI card report: As with all Firewire 800 PCI cards to date that I know of, a reader noted it didn't support deep sleep. (Note: Lacie replied to this post suggesting connecting a spare HD power connector (4-pin molex connector) to the FW800 PCI card aux. power connector. For the G5, this means you have to use a "Y" adapter cable to split the Optical drive Power connection to have a spare power connector and route it down into the PCI slot area. A Lacie FW800 card owner wrote this did not help the deep sleep problem.)

" G5 2GHz Dual Processor, osx 10.3.2
firmware update is current at: 5.1.2
(actually 5.1.4 is the latest version - update released in dec. 2003)
product: LaCie Firewire 800 PCI Card

Issue: When I put the computer to 'sleep' - about 3 minutes passes and then the 2 main processor heat sink internal fans start slowly revving up to maximum speed. (it is worth noting that the other internal 2 fans remain at 'sleep" speed) The two main fans will remain on seemingly indefinately (the air is quite cool exiting the housing) and spin down when the system is 'awoken'. The card works as expected when the system's not asleep - and I can wake and re-initiate deep sleep repeatedly without any kernel panic or such nonsense.

* short of hardwiring a fan interruptor switch into the case I'm not expecting a fix at this time - I have contacted LaCie and am awaiting a response from the technical support group. It's a ongoing problem and maybe Apple will fix it in an upcoming patch or .. maybe not. (this is a card issue usually)
Sam Y. "

If anyone ever finds a FW800 card that supports deep sleep - let me know.


Macally FH-CARD6 (6 Port FW card) Low Write Speed/No Deep Sleep Support: (from a reader mail Dec. 30th, 2003)

" Today I installed a Macally FH-CARD6 6 port firewire PCI card in my dual 2gHz G5. It works and I'm thrilled to have more firewire ports, but I noticed in sustained data transfer tests that the firewire hard disk drives that are plugged into the FH-CARD6 have 'write' results that are much lower than the write results of the same drive hooked up to the G5's built in firewire ports. (I'm using Intech SpeedTools to test the data transfer rate.) With a FWHD connected to the G5's FW400 port I get read and write test results of 29-31 mbps for the 'Extended' test. When the exact same drive is hooked up to the FH-CARD6 the results are 27-29mbps for the read but only 12mbps for the write. I tested three other firewire hard disk drives and the result is always the same - a much lower write rating for the drives on the FH-CARD6. I tested the PCI card with OS10.3 and OS10.3.2. The results were the same. All the firewire hard drives are OtherWorldComputing Mercury Elite enclosures with IBM 120gb drives installed.

The G5 does not support deep sleep with the FH-CARD6 installed. I read of this on the Apple discussion boards and expected it. The screen does turn off when Sleep is selected but the fan noise does not change. With the card removed the computer becomes completely silent when sleeping.
Joel
Peregrine Video Production"

I asked if he had applied the G5 firmware update 5.1.4 released early this month which was said to improve PCI-X performance but not sure it would affect this card. (I also asked how real world file and folder duplicate tests compared.)

Iogear MiniView Model GCS102 U (2-port) KVM switch:

(added 11/7/2003)
" I have an Iogear MiniView Model GCS102 U (2-port) on a G5 tower and the keyboard is fully functional. I liked it so well that I bought a MiniView III 4-port and was very disappointed - it had the keyboard problems you are discussing.
Theresa H. "

For the latest reports on KVM switches, including some that were reported as fully functional w/Apple keyboard special keys supported - see the Nov. 2003 posted article with Reports on KVM Switches with Macs


Dazzle DV Bridge:

(added 7/26/2004)
" Mike, Just wanted to let you know I've had no problems using my Dazzle with my new 2.0 G5 this is a newer rev machine (B?) ROM ver. 5.1.8F2
I used Final cut pro to import video thru the Dazzle as well as play it back out.
-Doug"

The first (and only) report of a Dazzle DV Bridge problem must have been due to something else (not the device).

(added 10/15/2003)
" On your page discussing deep sleep issues with G5's and usb 2.0 and firewire PCI cards, a reader mentions that his Dazzle Dv Bridge does not work. (one earlier report below)
I writing to clarify that I have this same bridge and it works flawlessly connected to the rear firewire 400 port. No configuration or tricks.
maxwell "

Only one early Dazzle owner report mentioned a problem (and there's been several OS updates since then.)

(added 10/3/2003)
" Hi Mike, My new G5 does not work with the Dazzle Hollywood DV-Bridge. It recognize the Bridge as camera but does not import any DV-stream or shows a picture.
Regards, Cutuna A.
Powermac G5 1.8Ghz, Firmware (boot rom) v5.0.1f1. "

I asked if he had tried front and rear FW400 ports and cycling the switch on the DV-Bridge and he said that didn't help. If any other Dazzle DV-Bridge users try it with a G5 system, let me know your results.

MacAlly (FH2UF24) and FWDepot U2FW-PCI01 Cards

(added 10/14/2003)
" G5 FW card deep sleep...Well kinda...on MacAlly (FH2UF24) & FWDepot U2FW-PCI01 DOES NOT work in a G5...

System: Dual G5 - 2.5 GB RAM - 10.2.7 (later upgraded to 10.2.8, but no changes in the report below)

After reading some of the posts on your site about deep sleep/USB/Firewire boards, I purchased the Macally USB 2.0/Firewire (FH2UF24) and installed it in my new Dual G5....(without installing the power cable that came with it...see below).

The system recognized the board and the ports were functional with out installing the drivers, and the drivers that came on the CD-ROM were not the latest drivers so I went to the website and downloaded them (USB2EHCI_v3_1_2.pkg as of 10/2/03) and installed on 10.2.7 that came installed on the Dual G5...

I experimented with several USB & Firewire devices and had some success with Deep Sleep...When I just connect the Sound Sticks/Harman Kardon Speakers or the Apple Pro Speakers, the G5 will go into deep sleep and wake from sleep with no problem...

But when you have any sort of powered device i.e.: Firewire card reader, Canon Scanner 1240 and even the Apple Pro keyboard with Mouse, etc., then deep sleep does not work... (this is not unusual - see past reports. This is why I ask to test with and w/o devices connected as the device connected can prevent deep sleep.-Mike)

There is an included cable in the box to provide power from your computer's power system, but with the tight new design of the new G5, they do not use the traditional 4 pin power supplies inside the computer that were used on hard drives, CD_ROM drives and fans inside the older G4's, G3's and other PC's. I will have to explore how to connect to the system power with the correct type of cable.

The .pdf manual includes this note:

    USING POWER CABLE
    Under normal circumstance, by using power from computer's PCI slot, PCI-USB2.0/ FireWire Adapter functions properly in supporting USB and FireWire devices. However, if there are many bus-powered devices connected or many FireWire devices are daisychained, the PCI-USB2.0/ FireWire adapter may not work properly. That is why we include a power cable for your convenience. When connected between PCI-USB2.0/ FireWire adapter and your computer's power supply, the power cable provides enough power to PCI adapter card so there will not be power issue. After you install PCI-USB2.0/FireWire card into the computer, please connect the included power cable as depicted below.

So it seems this seems to come down to power issues and not just software issues. (FYI - since day one of Firewire - even apple notes that only one bus powered device can be used at once on the FW ports due to power (current/source) limits of the bus. Bus power limits does not have anything to do with the card supporting deep sleep however. There's also limits to the USB bus power.-Mike)

When I spoke with (Macally) tech support before buying (to make sure it would work in the G5) they said it would and that it was a 3.3 Volt card.

UPDATE: 10/13/03
I also purchased the FWDepot Firewire/USB 2.0 Combo PCI card - U2FW-PCI01 to give it a try.

System: Dual G5 - 2.5 GB RAM - 10.2.7

WARNING: I could not get this card to work in my Dual G5...Computer would not boot at all!

In retrospect, in reviewing the specs on the FW Depot website, it look like it is a 5W (5V) card - quote from FWDepot web page: "Mini 4-pin DC +12V and +5V power connector for IEEE 1394 and USB Bus Power" (that is just a note on the Power supply connection - the card takes a connector from the Power Supply which has +12V and +5V DC. Hard drive/CD drive PS connectors all have these voltages on them for drive use, the card just uses this connection as a source of additional bus power, that does not mean the card signaling is 5V. If it was a 5V PCI only card it would not physically fit in the G5's PCI slot - as 5V only PCI cards do not have the Keying slot (cut) in the connector. However not sure why this card would not even boot in the G5 (assuming the card is OK) unless it has an address space issue or some other problem.-Mike)

In reviewing the G5 Developer Notes here is a direct quote from them:
(this was noted some months back here on the G5 tech info page, etc.)

    "The expansion slots accept PCI or PCI-X cards with either 32-bit or 64-bit address and data buses. The expansion slots support universal and +3.3 V cards, but not 5 V signalling. The cards are required to use the standard ISA fence described in the specification.

    Note: 5 V keyed or signalling cards do not work in the Power Mac G5 computer.

    The expansion slots support all the required PCI signals and certain optional PCI signals. The PCI slots support the optional 64-bit bus extension signals and cache support signals.

    The PCI slots and the AGP Pro 8x slot carry the 3.3 V_AUX power and PME signals to allow an expansion card to wake the computer from sleep mode. "

There are similar chips in the bridge (a TI) but different NEC chips...(see attached photo from ASP).

So, unfortunately, this Combo Card did not work for me IN A G5 DUAL...but maybe someone else will have a different experience...
best
Todd B.
Corporate and Editorial Photojournalism

(he later wrote with a reply from FWdepot on the card problem in the G5)

Here is a response back from FW Depot on the Voltage of the Firewire/USB 2.0 Combo PCI card - U2FW-PCI01 card:"

    " We have confirmed with our engineering team that the card is compatible with both 3.3 and 5V slots so it appears there may be something else going on, especially since you tried with the internal power connector which would override the PCI bus power."


Adaptec Fireconnect 4300 PCI card:

(added 10/9/2003)
" I just did some research yesterday and ended up with an Adaptec Fireconnect 4300 that does work in my dual G5. It does wake from sleep as well. (see his later email/update below - it does not support deep sleep-Mike)
Before purchasing this, I was investigating the Belkin offerings. The F5U501 (see G5 owner report below on this card) that was mentioned is an older configuration than the newly offered F5U502 which now sports the "universal" connector like the Adaptec has (2 slots on contact strip). While I haven't tested the 502, I suspect that it probably would work properly.
I've got to say that Belkin would have had my business if they had responded to a query I made more quickly, but the Adaptec was the same price at $50.
Regards,
Stefan G.
(the next day he wrote)
Hi Mike, I'm using a G5 dual. I just wrote yesterday saying that I purchased a Adaptec Fireconnect 4300 card and that it worked fine and woke from sleep fine on my G5.
However, come to find out it has another strange symptom. After a few minutes of being asleep, the fans go on FULL BLAST and very loud. This stops the minute the computer is brought out of sleep. To double test, I took out the card, and the full blast problem hasn't recurred.
Have you hear elsewhere of this issue? "

That's a sure sign it's not supporting Deep Sleep. With the OS not running and the system not fully in deep sleep mode, the fans will spool up to full speed as there is no thermal/fan control software running. The fans failsafe mode runs at full speed without any control software running to ensure that the system does not overheat. (The same thing happens in FW Target Disk mode and when running the hardware test CD.)

Anyone else see this? If any other G5 (or other Mac) owners have a Firewire or USB CD/DVD burner, I wonder if you could check for this. I noticed something recently (already applied the 10.2.8 update so not sure it happened with 10.2.7) when I'm burning from Toast6 to my Firewire cased Plextor PX-708A I see the USB mouse (connected to keyboard) "pulse" (LED goes bright, then dim, then bright, etc.). If anyone else notices this (or doesn't) let me know.


Belkin Firewire 400 PCI Card: (from a G5 owner post)

" I have a Belkin 3 Port PCI Firewire card F5U501 that worked fine in my G4. I called Belkin to ask if it will work in the G5, they said no problem. But there is a problem in sleep mode! With card installed, sometimes I come into room and computer appears to be asleep, but fans are running high speed and loud! I tap keyboard to wake from sleep, computer comes on and fans quiet down. I take out the card and I don't have the problem. Belkin says Apple has had an issue with sleep and pci cards for several years now. Apple says it is an issue for Belkin to resolve...
Does anyone have some info that may help? Is there a card out there (preferably other than Belkin since they weren't very friendly/helpful) that will work?
Peter T. "

This means the card doesn't support deep sleep mode. If any G5 owners try a Firewire PCI card (FW400 or FW800) please let me know your experience (compatibility, deep sleep support, etc.)


Here's a sample of some G5 owner reports that noted problems using the USB ports on the back of a 17in Apple Display in Apple's G5 forums:

(added Oct. 3rd, 2003)
" Before receiving my G5, I could plug an Apple Pro keyboard into the back of my Apple 17" Flat Panel (it has two USB ports on it's back). This was helpful in that a USB extension cable wasn't required to run the keyboard below my desk to the the G4 tower I was using. Instead it was a short distance to the Flat Panel's port.
Now, after receiving my new G5, I can no longer use the Flat Panel's rear USB ports for my new G5 keyboard. It will sometimes work for a while, but eventually I end up with no mouse or keyboard action. I've got the G5 keyboard plugged into the rear of my G5 and all is well. But still, this is a quirk that I hadn't expected.
Howie
My G5 bootrom version is 5.0.5f0 (From Apple System Profiler) "

I'm not sure what the cause of this is or if it affects other Apple ADC or DVI LCD display USB port use.


" I have a Logitech cordless optical mouse. The receiver is plugged in to the rear of the keyboard - the keyboard and a printer are plugged into the rear of the system. I wanted to download some pictures I took with my Olympus C3000 camera, so I plugged it into the front USB port.
When Image Capture came up and I moved the mouse into it's window, the mouse froze. I thought the system had frozen, but I could command-tab to other apps. If I unplugged the mouse receiver from the keyboard and plugged it back in, the mouse would move again, until I went to Image Capture. I also noticed the LED on the camera that indicates activity to the memory card was blinking, like it was trying to read from the card, even though I hadn't started the transfer yet. I ended up plugging the Apple mouse into the second USB port on the keyboard and then the cursor worked fine, even with the receiver still plugged in. The Logitech mouse still would not work. When I was finished transfering pictures, I quit Image Capture, removed the Apple mouse, and removed/inserted the Logitech reciever and everything was fine again.

I'm going to try again tonight to see if there is some sort of conflict.
John T."

Another G5 owner replied:

" Mike, I just bought a stock Dual G5. I have a 4 port ioGear KVM switch that switches between a Dual G5, Dual G4/450 and a PC. The keyboard/mouse is a Logitech Navigator wireless unit. The keyboard receiver plugs into the switch and the computers plug into the KVM.

The G5 will not take eject commands from the keyboard. (Update: for later reports on KVM switches - some fully functional (special keys, etc.) see this KVM switch reports page-Mike) The mouse works fine. All of the other computers operate normally with the keyboard and mouse. To workaround the problem I enabled the eject menu on the G5.
David B. "

Another reader replied to the G5/KVM switch report (below)

"I recently installed an IOGEAR MiniView III here at work to switch between my PowerMac G4/450 and my Dell (config unknown, don't care). I have an Apple Pro keyboard and a Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer hooked up to it and not only does the eject button not work, neither do the volume controls nor the mouse buttons other than the left & right.
It appears the KVM switch does not pass these inputs. This is quite frustrating since everything worked fine when I was using my LaCie monitor to switch between the two. Trouble is, the input hooked up to the Dell "blew up" when I put a faster video card in that system. Had to go with an external solution as a result. The Belkin SOHO KVM I tried previously had even worse results (phantom keystrokes, etc.) than the IOGEAR.
Hope this helps.
Sid B.
Design Coordinator
Nanometrics Incorporated"

Another reader replied with a KVM note:

"Mike, Just wanted to let you know that the problem a user was having with the IOGear KVM not working with the the special function keys on the apple keyboard is well known, and has been an issue since the 3nd revision of the MiniView KVM (and from other manufacturers). Other special keys and hot keys do not work either.

(Update For the latest reports on KVM switches, including some that were reported as fully functional w/special keys supported - see the Nov. 2003 posted article with Reports on KVM Switches with Macs-Mike)
Check this link:
http://www.iogear.com/support/til/index.php?func=TILDisplay&TIL_ID=10068
    "USB devices, specifically mice and keyboards, are each given a VID number (Vendor Identification) upon release. This VID# is read by your computers' OS's and the device installed; however, since many mouse and keyboard manufacturers hold the rights to the VID# of their product, we cannot "emulate" or "copy" it without their written consent.
    At the release of our MiniView II KVM, we anticipated this to be resolved shortly; however, that has not been the case in our dealings with many mouse and keyboard manufacturers. Currently, we are only able to "emulate" a standard, full-size USB keyboard; however, keyboard shortcut keys (E-Mail, Internet, Eject, Volume, etc.) are not guaranteed to function. We hope to support these features in the future in both our current and future line of USB KVM products. The same holds true with mice. Since we are only able to emulate the standard, Microsoft-compatible Intellimouse (Two Button with Wheel), any extra features on mice are not guaranteed to function.. "

I had a Miniview II that died, replaced it with a Miniview III. Since the MVII DOES pass the VID and the III does not, I ended up selling the III and getting another II just because of this reason. Why have multi-button USB devices if none of the special keys work.
-Eric

If any other G5 owners have seen any problems with any 3rd party devices , let me know (include system/OS/device details, your boot rom version reported by Apple System Profiler, etc. - Thanks.)
Also test with USB devices plugged into the Mac rather than the keyboard if you see a problem with keyboard port use.

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