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Feedback/Reports on ATI 9/1 ROM Update:Return to News Page

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Feedback on ATI's 9.1 ROM Update
(For Radeon AGP/PCI, Nexus128 PCI and Orion PCI graphics cards)
Published: 10/1/2001
Last updated: 10/12/2001 for more reports
(Links to some pages at ATI revised in 2003 since they were moved.)

ATI Comments on 9/1 (Sept. 2001) ROM Update Issues:
I've been talking with ATI and they have been monitoring this page of ROM update reader feedback. Here's a clip from the most recent mail from ATI on the issues:

" Hi Mike,
The next release will be based on fixing both of the side effects associated with the latest ROM update. The cause of the missing display controls has been found, and we are fixing it now. The IE mouse cursor problem is already fixed in our in house ROM. We need to develop the display control fix, run a full qualification of the ROM update, and prepare customer support prior to making the release. I can't be more specific about a release date though. "

They also asked for more verification on the report of the video out port and/or DVI port not working after the update. If you're seeing this problem after the update, please let me know the details. (One reader said that zapping the pram helped, but others have not reported the problem).
ATI has also posted a page on the issue of some seeing corrupted screens after waking from sleep in OS X 10.1. (I did not see this on my PCI Radeon in the 66mhz slot of a B&W G3 connected to a 15" Apple LCD running 10.1.)

ATI's Sept. 2001 ROM Update page lists/links to tech notes on the following issues:

Although not listed on that page, the previously mentioned issue (below) with corrupted screens after wake from sleep is now at http://mirror.ati.com/support/infobase/3932.html.


I applied the ATI ROM update (extender extension - the AGP Radeon doesn't get the flash ROM update of the PCI model) and have seen no problems so far (but then I didn't see any before, at least with my card and monitors). However there have been problem reports primarily from PCI Radeon card owners (that card is the only one that has the Flash ROM update to actually update the card's onboard ROM.)

This page lists reader comments on the update from from Nexus128, PCI Radeon, and AGP Radeon card owners. Many noted improvements, but there were some problems reports especially from PCI Radeon owners. The latest reports of Video out and DVI not working are disturbing but others later noted their DVI and Video out worked fine.

For now, I'd caution PCI Radeon card owners about flash their card yet, especially if you are running Apple VGA displays. ATI is working on another update to address the issues noted like the loss of monitor controls with Applevision displays, so if you can wait for the next update, I would. AGP card owners or Nexus128, Orion, etc. cards don't get flashed, so there's no changes that can't be undone. (If you have an existing ROM extender extensions file back it up in case you want to revert to the older version)

If you sent a report about OS X, please note if you manually copied the ROM extender file to the OS X directory noted in the readme file and posted here earlier today.
Note: If you can, test Video out and DVI ports on Radeon cards to see if they are still working. (Esp. for PCI Radeons where the card is flashed with a new ROM version, although most that have tested this said it was OK.)

My Experience with Flashed PCI Radeon and 15" Apple VGA/ADB LCD Display:
After a few reports of problems with this pair after the update, I checked my flash updated PCI Radeon card in a B&W G3 (sole card in 66mhz slot) with my 15" Apple LCD (model with VGA and ADB connections). I can still use the display's buttons on the panel fine (one reader noted he couldn't) and didn't lose any resolutions, but I do not have all the software control options for optimizing the display that I did with the OEM Rage128 card.
I did not test the Radeon in the B&W G3 before the flash update to see if the software controls were there however. (I.E., I'm not sure the flash update affected this but from reports below I suspect it did.) If I swap the OEM Rage128 card back in the system, I still have the LCD software control panel options available even with the new ROM extender extension enabled. I have not checked to see if Video out and DVI ports are working after the update, but the reports of this problem are rare and not typical I think.

Reader Feedback on the 9/1 ROM Update: (most recent reports first) There's past reports here from PCI Radeon owners that zapping the pram (a good tip for video card issues in the past when changing cards) fixed a "loss" of video output. Another reader replied it also solved his problems:

" Mike,
After zapping the PRAM 3 times in a row I'm happy to report that up to now the problem seems to have been cured. :)) Don't really know whether it's been fixed for good though, so don't take my word for it, I'll let you know asap on any progress on that front.
Regards, Jim"

With over 1000 emails received since the ATI update, I asked Jim to send a note on his system, card and problems he saw with after the update.


" Hi Mike. I'm the user who reported the problem with scrambled screen display after waking from sleep in OS X.

ATI apparently is taking this problem seriously. At least, they've added a page to their technical issues area about it (http://mirror.ati.com/support/infobase/3932.html).
Thanks again for your site.
Neil F. "

I did not see this problem so far on my PCI Radeon in the 66mhz slot of a B&W G3 connected to a 15" Apple LCD running 10.1, but some have reported it.


Pram ZAP Fixes Loss of Video-Out:

" Mike,
(I posted a few days ago about loss of TV-Out in my Beige G4 with PCI Radeon)

As an update to the problems I was having..
I was trying to turn off startup memory testing, so I zapped my PRAM 3 times, which made the computer boot up about 20 secs faster. Anyway, I was plesantly surprized when I checked, my TV-Out was working 100% again. Obviously, I recommend a PRAM zap to anyone having difficulty with the ROM update
-Dan "


" Hello Mike, I have had a rather strange experience with the TV out on my Radeon pci card. I have a B&W G3 400MHz, 384 system ram, and two ata HD's, one of them running 9.2.1, the other running 10.1.

Now here's my story, I apply the rom to both OS's, restart into 9.2.1 to see how everything is working, I look at the control strip resolution and realize I've lost all of my TV resolutions. After trying out different things I call ATI and they can't do anything about it, they even told me they thought it was a hardware problem with the card itself. Well then i restart the computer again (with all extensions enabled) and I look at the monitor control strip and see that the TV resolutions are back again. So I try out 640x480 NTSC, the computer screen flashes once, then redraws the icons, menus, and control strip on the screen. Nothing happened, so I look at the control strip again, the resolutions are now gone. So I restart again and try out 640x480 simulscan, did the same thing. So I rebooted yet again, now rather than selecting a resolution I went into the ATI control panel and opened up the Mac2TV window. The options were all enabled, before they had been grayed out. So without closing the window I select a resolution from the control strip, the screen flashed, as I expected, but the options in the Mac2TV window were still there. Then I clicked the ON button, and it asked if I was sure if I wanted to switch resolutions so I clicked on the ok button. Nothing happened, then I clicked it again, and this time when the menu came up I hit the enter key on the keypad, now the display was finally on my TV! Then while it was on my tv I closed the window, reopened it and now the options were grayed out.

This made absolutely no sense to me and only frustrated me, so I decided to see how things were in OS X. I had never before been able to get video mirroring on OS X. Now suddenly i click on the resolution switching menu and see that they are all there, and they work perfectly. Then my computer goes to sleep, I try to wake it, it doesn't wake up, I have to force restart, when the computer is on again I don't see any of the TV out options, and haven't since.
Mark G. "


" Mike:
Hi. I applied the ATI patch to my Radeon in my S900 as part of my upgrade to OS 10.1. I applied the patch and now I have zero video out. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Bill R. "

I suggested he try zapping the pram, which one reader said helped.


(reports from 10/4/2001 follow)

A Forum regular and author of the 2001 iBook Overclocking Guide noted he lost DVI output after flashing a PCI Radeon:

"After flashing my Radeon with the new firmware my 18.1" LCD is no longer recognized...seeing as how DVI output was the PRIMARY REASON for my purchasing the card...I am not a happy camper...is there a way ATi could release the old rom so I can flash back till they have all the issues worked out, or is my LCD investment going to be useless because of a ill fated update release?
Tycho "


" Just to let you know. I have flashed my PCI Radeon and followed the uneasy MacOS X instructions.

The TV-out still works. And even better than before :
The TV is the only monitor connected to the Radeon (I have an ADC flat 17" studio display connected to an AGP Geforce 2MX) Before the update, I had to switch the monitor resolution to NTSC then back to PAL in order to have correct colors on my TV after restart in OS X. Now it keeps the right PAL settings and displays nice colors.

One new thing (I do not know if it is due to the ROM update or to the OS X 10.1 update), is that I have only have 2 resolutions (800*600 NTSC and PAL) listed, as I had a lot more before (as for example 832*624 PAL).
Regards,
Jerome. "


" Beige G3, OS 9.2.1, NO PROBLEM with ROM update and s-video out.
GREAT SITE!
Andrew M. "


" Hi, Mike,
Thanks again for continue your wonderful site. It is my first resource for anything to do with Mac hardware. I recommend it constantly to others.

I have a G4/733 (pre-quicksilver) with a Rage 128 Pro AGP and a Radeon Mac PCI. I have a Mitsubishi Pro 900u attached to each card. I recently flashed the ROM of the Radeon with the latest ATI frirmware. Here are my observations.

In 9.2.1
After reboot, I lost the ColorSync profiles for both monitors and the resolution and startup monitor settings were changed as well. Originally, a "900u" monitor profile showed up as a choice in the ColorSync Profile list of the Monitor Control Panel. This is no longer listed and both monitors are set at "Generic RGB". I have since re-selected my chosen resolutions and set the Radeon back as the startup monitor.

IN 10.0.4
First reboot into 10.0.4 resulted in a grey screen on the Radeon monitor, incrediably long boot time, lots of beachball spinning, the Rage monitor being set to 640x480 and set as the startup monitor . As in 9.2.1, I had the Radeon monitor set as the start up. The Radeon monitor was not accessible by mouse, and the system was extremely sluggish. I tried to adjust in the Monitors Panel but the system froze. Forced reboot resulted in me getting back my original settings! No problems.

Subsequent boots into 10.0.4 from 9.2.1 have had the same problem, long boot, no Radeon monitor support and 640x480 on Rage monitor. An immediate restart via the Apple Menu again corrected the problem, again.

I wasn't too concerned with the problems in 10.0.4 since I will be receiving my 10.1 update on Friday and will reinstall the OS, but the latest boot into 10 was the longest and appeared unsuccessful. I left with the machine about 15 minutes into the boot process, then, upon return found it un-wakeable from sleep. I hit the restart button and was greeted with the Radeon returned as the start up screen and a traditional, quick boot. Unfortunately, I launched Quake III and was told that my video card does not support OpenGL. I have Q3 set to use the Radeon for display. I am going to run some diagnostics and hope things get better.
-- Michael S. "


" I have a 8500/180 upgraded to a Newer G4/400 with 352M and an ATI 128 Nexus.OS X 10.04
I haven't been able to Boot into OS X since DP3 because of kernel panics. after installing
the ATI Rom update I still cant! it used to kernel panic then i could type r to reboot ... but now it crashes so hard the reboot from the debugger doesn't respond .. I will try after I upgrade to 10.1. If you have any ideas let me know
Thomas "


" Hi Mike,
This is weird...
I applied the update to both my Radeon PCI cards on my beige G3 and now the system will not boot up from my internal software (FWB 4.5) RAID 0/1 array. It was working perfectly just fine before I updated the Radeon ROM. No other changes were made. By the way, I must thank you and your website for the information on how to build the RAID which I have been using for a couple of years or more.

After some digging around and formatting, clean installs, etc., I found that the only way to boot from the RAID is to set startup to the internal IDE drive and then hit comd-option-shift-delete.

Also, when I upgraded to OS 9.2.1, the RAID booted up fine but I had to downgrade to OS 9.1 for the system on the IDE drive for it to boot from there. I guess that it may be time to get a new SCSI card as I suspect that the firmware may be incompatible. MacResq has ATTO cards for $70-80 which may be just what I need.

Beige G3/500 386MB RAM
Jackhammer ultra SCSI PCI card (1.4.5 firmware)
2 x Quantum Atlas II drives
internal Quantum IDE drive
2 x ATI Radeon PCI
2 x Apple 15-inch Graphite LCDs
Apple DVDROM
OS 9.2.1
Thank you very much, R
PS did not notice any changes in the Radeon functionality. "


(reports from 10/3/2001 follow)

" Mike,
Just applied the patch to a Retail Radeon PCI in a Beige G4. I thought everything was great.. but on closer inspection it appears I have lost all tv-out capabilities (doesn't recognise my TV as being plugged-in). Also, in the monitors cpanel, I now have no advanced features for my AppleVision 750.

I usually watch a few movies a week on my TV through the Radeon, so this is going to be a bit of a pain.
-Dan
(Dan later wrote a pram zap fixed that - see the 10/5 reports above) "


Latest Report on PCI Radeon Video/DVI Ports after Flash Update:

" Mike-
I have a PCI Radeon ( DVI -> Planar 17.4" LCD ) in my B&W. I flashed the card, and it actually works much better. Previously I would occasionally get whacked out color (greenish) patches after long periods of use. That issue seems to be gone, and all 3 outs seem to still work fine. (VGA, DVI, S-Video).

Didn't even zap PRAM or anything. Just ran the updater and rebooted. X.04 and X.1 both boot happily now as well. (No beachball hang)

Here's my system:
B&W rev A w/ Sonnet 500 G4
Radeon (DVI -> LCD Display)
Stock Rage[128] card ( Apple Studio Display 17" )
gigabyte RAM
Tempo IDE card
triple HD's
Stock DVD player
PYRO Case + Sony 12xCDRW Spressa Drive
cool-Mark "


" B&W G3/350 Rev.1 (came with the ATI Rage 128 Pro with piggyback DVD decoder) Installed Radeon Mac Edition PCI retail card installed in PCI/66 slot; moved the original graphics card to a PCI/33 slot. B&W Apple 17" Studio Display on the original card, running at 1280x1024; old DEC 21" VGA monitor on the Radeon, running at 1600x1200. Mac OS X 10.1

Installed the ROM upgrade; no changes (other than the black box cursor flicker).

However ... Since upgrading to 10.1, whenever the system goes to sleep and wakes up again, the monitor attached to the Radeon card is garbled. This is consistent whichever monitor is attached to the Radeon card, and whether or not I have a monitor attached to the other card. The ROM upgrade had no effect on this behavior.

(If anyone wants to see what this looks like, I have photographs of the screen, before and after sleep, located at www.jlc.net/~faiman/ati_before.jpg and http://www.jlc.net/~faiman/ati_after.jpg.
Neil F. "


" Mike,
Installed ROM update yesterday. Machine is 9600 with xlr8 G3/400 zif card running OS 9.1 with Radeon card attached to Eizo Ti66 (19/20inch) monitor. Minor problems before installation (screen flickering between dark/light) that has completely disappeared. Machine appears to be faster (technical and actually speed tests beyond me), and colour stability. Warbirds plays and looks much better. Overall I feel a very valuable improvement (but maybe me just wishing so to avoid feeling daft!).

Only minor problem is that the choices of resolution were far more limited in 'show recommended' in the control panels no 1024x768 were shown. However, when 'show all' choices was selected the 1024x768 were listed and function. This maybe due to some problem between the Mac and the Eizo monitor as the refresh rate is very important. If a fast refresh rate is selected I get the black screen of death.
All the best and thanks for running the valuable site,
Paul "


" Hi Mike,
My system is a Rev. 1 B G3 350, 448 RAM, ViewSonic G790 19", with OS9.2/OSX 10.1. I was using an old Radius card for my second monitor (in OS9; it did NOT work in OSX), so I swapped up to a PCI Radeon Mac Edition 32 for the primary monitor and the OEM Rage128 for the second (for Quark, Illustrator & Photoshop palettes).

I downloaded the ROM upgrade 10/01/01 and received the Radeon ($199. less $20. rebate, Outpost.com) 10/02/01. Following installation instructions, I did see the "Display Jitter" problem upon restart. I applied the ROM upgrade (NOT manual installation) and the Jitter was gone. (Performance: Great picture; "Tomb Raider II" looks fabulous: I can finally see where I'm going! And OS X seems much crisper and a bit smoother.) After adjusting the Display settings and a restart in OS X, both screens are functioning well.

I have seen just one glitch, in IE 5.1 as reported earlier: "Drawing artifacts to appear in IE when moving the cursor on text. The I shaped cursor causes ghost black blocks to appear randomly for 1 frame in the cursor area. IE causes the cursor to switch between the I shape and the arrow shape very quickly when it is moving above text." Removing the ATI Xtender may fix the problem in OS9 but had no effect in OSX. I will report my results with graphics programs soon.
-Robert L. "

I think once the PCI card is flashed, removing the ROM extender file will have no affect and the extension I believe is just for cards that do not get their onboard ROM flash updated. (ATI commented the extension is not needed in OS X once for PCI Radeons that have been flashed.)


" Mike,
I applied the ATI ROM update to my machine and by simply rebooting, it did not appear to have done anything. However, after shutting the machine down and bringing it back up the next morning, I indeed noticed a difference. Specifically, the "shimmeries" on text are gone now. Other than that, my machine functions just like it always has.

My system: B&W G3/450, Mac OS 9.0.4, ATI Radeon PCI in the 66MHz slot. My monitor is the Apple B&W 17-inch CRT.
Thanks again for the site. It has been a real help many many times.
Jeff "


" I applied the rom update to my 400/G4 agp with OS X 10.1 and retail radeon.(installed the rom extender in osX) I have the same issues as many others, namely the cursor in IE 5.1 in X flickers and drove me so nuts that I had to remove the rom extender from X. All then went back to normal.
Mechanic "

AGP Radeon I assume since if flashed the PCI version doesn't need the file in OS X.


" I applied the update, and no more kernel panic. I have to have two monitors plugged in. Right now, I plug an old 14 inch VGA into the Radeon and my 20-inch Apple Multiscan into the onboard. Then I boot into OSX. Then I go to the display preferences and switch the menubar to the Radeon-driven VGA monitor. Then I switch the apple monitor to the Radeon (using the VGA adapter) and unplug the VGA monitor.
Yippee...OSX accelerated with my Radeon.
Mike
7300
g3/400 sonnet card
radeon mac edition pci
9.1 / 10.0.0.4 "

I asked if he could test video out to see if it's still working.


" Dear Mike,
After updating with the new 9_01 ROM update, the Graphics Accelerator extension is now "X'd" out at startup. Also, I cannot open the ATI Displays control panel. I get an error that says "ATI Displays cannot find any ATI Display product". I have an ATI Mac Radeon card in a 9500 with OS 9.1
Regards, Bill T. "

I don't see this problem here with a flashed PCI Radeon. I asked he double check to make sure all extensions required were enabled. That error message sounds like the one seen when trying to use the ATI Control panel with an OEM card (even OEM/BTO ATI cards can't use the control panel, only retail cards).


(reports added 10/2/2001 follow)

" Hi Mike,
PPC 8500 + XLR8 G3 400mhz + Mac Radeon PCI + ViewSonic VP150m (MVA panel VGA + DVI). The ViewSonic works great on the DVI socket of the Radeon.

This morning I found the ATI ROM Update and applied it to the card, because I also experienced display jitter. After reboot the screen appeared in the chosen resolution of 1024x768 60hz (which was new, because it always started up in 640x480). Then I zapped the PRAM as I always do after attaching new hardware. But after reboot, the card appeared to be dead. No signal anymore from the DVI or the VGA socket.

I attached the ViewSonic to an old Formac Proformance 3 card (VGA) and got the screen back online. The Radeon was send back to the vendor. I hope this is an incident (but a rather annoying one).
Hans R.
The Netherlands "

Although very rare overall, there is a chance of failures when flashing firmware.


" Hello,
I tried updating my Retail Radeon AGP in my QuickSilver 867 in OSX 10.1 but it caused some drawing artefacts to appear in IE when moving the cursor on text.

The I shaped cursor caused some black blocks to appear randomly for 1 frame in the cursor area and sometime also a ghost of the arrow cursor.

I noticed that IE causes the cursor to switch between the I shape and the arrow shape very quickly when it is moving above text.

Removing the ATI Xtender fixed the problem.
Ben M. "


" I've been suffering from artifacts with Photoshop 6 (running or having been up) with my G4 400DP with an aftermarket AGP Radeon card. Technical help could only suggest a fresh install of ATI 1.1.1s/w. Which didn't have any effect - The problem has persisted through the upgrade from 9.1 to 9.2. after a slow flurry of correspondence with the techies all has remained silent. The only thing I can discover about this type of problem with MacFixit- it has occurred in conjunction with another manufactures graphics card and Quark...
Much head scratching later this ATI update comes along and upon a restart the artifacts immediately appeared without Photoshop even up and running. Admittedly nothing has happened since (2 days). But I wait to see if the pretty patterns occur.
I found the best temporary trick to clear the be artifacts is to close the effected window and reopen. Or if it was on the desktop switch off 'ATI Graphics Acceleration' from the menu bar, open a folder and literally rub out the errant pixels! then switch it on again. Not the most elegant solution for an otherwise stormin' graphics system.
Waiting and watching
Ta,
John "

I've never seen this issue here with an OEM or Retail Radeon AGP card in my systems using Pshop 5.5.


" Hello Mike.
I installed the ROM updater in OS 9. I have a B&W G3 with newertech G4/450. I have the PCI Radeon in the 66Mhz slot hooked up to DVIator into Apple 17" LCD. I havent' noticed any differences as far as black screen or the dreaded kernel panic. but I do see a few glitches in MSIE 5.1, such as putting the cursor on a link. I noticed this even before I applied the updater.

I had difficulty powering up the LCD after the hook-up of the DVIator but then I tried to hook-up the USB from the DVIator to one of the USB ports from my powermac. After that I can power-up the entire system through the power LED located on the 17" LCD.

When running in OS 9, (I only use this OS for CD to CD burning and DVD playback) I noticed a crisper movie playback... Oh I forgot to mention that I have the stock apple CD-ROM with the ATAPI toshiba combo SDR-1002. I am unable to install the DVD player in OS 10.1. as well as not able to do CD to CD copying.
I hope this helps a few of your readers.
RitcheRR "


" Applied the ROM update to PCI Radeon card in beige G3 desktop (OS 9.1, Powerlogix 466 Mhz CPU, Apple Studio Display 17" LCD via Dr. Bott's DVIator).

The update adds (emulated) 800x600 and 1024x768 to the Studio Display's capabilities-prior to the update selecting either of these resolutions resulted in wavy lines and extremely bad quality-the update makes these resolutions quite usable.
The "black on restart" problem is not fixed, however.
James N. "

I asked for more info on the "black on restart" (no video?) comment.


Another DVIator user comments:

" I applied the ROM Xtender in OS X and noticed that there are some screen draw issues in IE. On the plus side the update allows me to use my 17 inch Apple flat panel/DVIator combo with retail AGP radeon at a resolution of 1024x768, which was not possible before.
QS dual 800MHz
1.12 GB RAM
Retail Radeon AGP
Dr.Bot DVIator
OS X 10.1
-jd "


" Hi Mike
I used the update on the retail Radeon card in my PM 9500/G4-450 with an Apple 15" TFT Studio Display. After the update I've lost all the LCD specific controls in the Monitors control panel in OS 9.1. I even tried OS 9.0 and an adapted OS 9.2. Now I can't adjust the position of the picture, the white & black level, the sharpness and the tracking !!! Because of the ADB-connection of the display, I can't even use the manual controls and the On-Screen Display.

I want my controls back or I want a ROM-Downgrade on the ATI support site.
This should be a warning to other readers.
Thanks
Robert F. "

I asked if disabling the ATI ROM extender card (I doubt that would help with the PCI Radeon which uses the Firmware flash updater - I'm assuming it is a PCI Radeon since a 9500 was included in the comments).
One Tip for adjustments - try disconnecting the ADB connector (power off just to be safe). With the ADC connector disabled the adjustment buttons on the display should work.


Another 15" LCD (VGA/ADB model) noted a similar problem after the update:

" I did the rom-update on a retail radeon pci in a blue/white g3. lost all functions on my apple studio display (15" lcd, analog connector with adb). it is still recognised as a apple studio display, but when I touch any of the display adjustment knobs in mac os 9.2.1, the monitors control panel opens only the generic controls for a standard display. didnęt lose resolutions though. under mac os 10.1 I get the standard osd from the monitor itself, not from the os. btw, got the same "feature" with redraw problems in internet explorer.
greetings, willi "

I've updated a PCI Radeon and own one of these LCDs so I can test this personally soon.


I'm not sure from the following report if he's tried the ROM update extension or not:

" Mike-
I've had an issue with my Apple Studio Display (15" LCD with the pedestal and DVI input) not being able to boot into OS X. It would work fine with my 17" Apple Display (which has its own set of problems- don't get me started). I've been running the Radeon AGP card and have suspected a driver or firmware issue all along. I've not been able to get resolution from Apple or ATI. OS X.1 has remedied the problem and I suspect the cure lies in the extended ROM instruction set you're talking about.
Scott M.
(he later wrote)

G4 400-gigabit-Radeon AGP(retail)-512MB -IBM 40Gig 60GXP w/ Apple LCD 15" (DVI). Prior to OS 10.1 my machine would not boot into OS X with the LCD monitor connected. It would boot into OS X.04 w/ my CRT connected. Since the upgrade the LCD monitor has worked great. The only missing feature is the lack of feedback (no display) of the brightness controls as well as no software adjustment.
The manual addition of the ATI ROM extender has made no determinable difference in OS X and only seems to cause the screen to "go black" for a moment while booting into OS 9.21. I do not see this same effect when operating in X and causing "classic" to boot. "

With my G4/500 DP w/AGP Radeon I see the same switching at boot (monitor resets twice) but seems ok otherwise after the update.


" Hi Mike. The update worked just fine for me. I have yet to notice any difference whatsoever.

Beige G3 MT 266 AV
ATI Orion
OS 9.2.1 / OS X 10.0.4

PS: Any word on whether the built in video capture card is supported in OS X? I can do Video/Audio IO with it in 9 (if a monitor is connected to it) but have yet to find a way to use it at all under OS X.
Thanks,
Ray "

I really don't know about that - my Beige G3 is the BBS server now so I can't test OS X on it. I asked why not update to 10.1 and test it (you can get the update free at some apple dealers). There's so many benefits from 10.1 that I really don't see the downside for most users running 10.0.4. (I had one Beige G3 owner report noting a problem with the onboard SCSI however. Some others in the past have noted it enabled IDE Slave drive support even for Rev A Beige G3s.)
If any Beige G3 owners with the AV personality module test to see if image capture works let me know (news@xlr8yourmac.com)


" Last night I applied the new ROM update on my Beige G3 with ATI Rage Orion PCI card. I'm also running OS 10.1 and after the update, 1152x870 became an available resolution for my Sony CPD-200ES. This was never supported in OS 9.x on my machine.

After shutting down and restarting (I can't restart directly because there is still an unresolved issue after installing a Firewire Direct PCI card - the monitor won't power up if I don't shut down and then start up), I get the happy mac, but as soon as the login would normally show up, the screen goes gray. I can type in my password and I hear the drive crunching. I am able to put the system to sleep, and then wake it up, but the monitor remains gray. I'm going to hook up an old 15 inch monitor and force the card to reset its resolution.
Barry Wolf

Beige G3
500/250 NewerTech ZIF
Firewire Direct PCI card
Keyspan USB 1.1 PCI card
ATI Rage Orion PCI card
448 MB RAM
Matshita CD-RW
Internal and external SCSI drives
OS 10.1 "

I asked if he manually copied the ROM extender file to OS X as noted in the readme file (a reminder was posted in yesterday's news with a highlighted copy of the instructions for OS X manual installs of the file). If he did the manual copy of the file, removing it should solve the problem I'd think. (there's no firmware update to the Orion cards, so it's all software extension based changes.)


" No problems, no enhancements, no nothing, just :-)
(beige G3, 500Mhz, Radeon PCI, OS X 10.1) (Do I have to install the "ROM extender" with my PCI?)
Alexander (Germany) "

I'm not clear if the flash updated Radeon PCI Cards need the ROM extender file copied to OS X. (overloaded here so I'd need to read the readme file again.) If you're not having problems - I'd leave well enough alone however.

" I did the rom-update on a retail radeon pci in a blue/white g3. lost all functions on my apple studio display (15" lcd, analog connector with adb). it is still recognised as a apple studio display, but when I touch any of the display adjustment knobs in mac os 9.2.1, the monitors control panel opens only the generic controls for a standard display. didnęt lose resolutions though. under mac os 10.1 I get the standard osd from the monitor itself, not from the os. btw, got the same "feature" with redraw problems in internet explorer.
greetings, willi "


" I have the same refresh problems as reported on your website. It appears that when the mouse cursor is placed over plain text (especially in IE), there is a lagging flicker trying to follow the mouse cursor. It's annoying enough to cause some havoc. I applied the update to my ATI Radeon Mac Edition PCI on a B/W G3. This effect does not occur on anti-aliased text. It only occurs when the mouse cursor is placed over plain "rough" text.

There were no problems with my video card before updating the ROM.
SSW: Mac OS X 10.1, B/W G3 (upgraded to G4/450 - XLR8), ATI Radeon Mac Edition PCI, with updated ROM and ATI ROM Xtender installed into Mac OS X.
Hubert C. "

Sometimes the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule applies, especially on firmware updates that are not reversable. (I assume on flashed PCI cards that disabling the rom extender has no effect, since they have the updated firmware flashed into the PCI card)


" Mike,
I used the updater on my beige G3 300, with the PCI Radeon. I've noticed no problems. Since I installed the Radeon I haven't been able to play GL Quake 0.7 (the new 0.7), but now it works just fine. :)
Pomira "


" Hey again Mike,
I downloaded the ATI ROM update you mentioned on your site, and it installed without problems. I have an ATI Nexus 128 in my Blue and white G3 (66mhz PCI slot). I an running OS 9.2.1, and OS 10.1, and I have not seen any problems so far. If anything happens later on I will drop you a line.
Interestingly enough I saw a speed increase in Unreal Tournament, but only by 2 FPS (Running in native OS 9.2.1, not classic). I really don't think this update was necessary for me, because this card worked fine for me in OS 9.1, 10.0, 10.0.1, 10.0.2, and 10.0.4, and all the resolutions were all unlocked, because I am running a BNC monitor through a BNC to VGA converter.
Thanks!
John W. "

(I assume he means the standard VGA to BNC monitor cables.)


" Mike,
I have already tried all your suggestions (ATI ROM extender in OS X directory, setting Radeon display as primary/startup display), but my particular machine simply won't work with a Radeon if there isn't a monitor attached to the built-in video as well. But this isn't an issue for me, since I usually have two monitors attached to my machine anyway. Nonetheless, I am still thrilled (despite this issue) to see a PCI powermac (other than a 9500 or 9600 series machine) run OS X with an ATI Radeon.
Regards,
David
[he later wrote]

Forgot to mention an issue with the new ATI ROM update. Since upgrading the ROM, my AppleVision 1710 no longer supports automatic color calibration and geometry controls. It seems that ATI has broken AppleVision support. "

Another 1710 owner noted problems like this in yesterday's reports (below).


" Mike,
ATI Radeon works in my PowerMac 8500 running OS X 10.0.4!!! I booted off the OS 9.1 CD (since I don't have a bootable OS 9.x on my hard drive) to install the ATI ROM update. The only time I get a kernel panic with this card now is if I don't have a monitor or VGA adapter hooked up to the internal display. I haven't yet tried the OF trick to disable the internal video that has been discussed in the forums. Aside from setting the monitor on the Radeon card up as the main display I didn't have to change anything in OS X to get the card working.
-Jesse"

(B&W G3 and later models can boot into OpenFirmware. Earlier systems can't. Unless the wording above is not what I think he's saying.)


This Radeon AGP owner noted a problem with the ROM udpate extension in OS X 10.1

" Hi Mike,
I've had a bit of trouble with the ATI update. Details of my system:

G4/450 Tower AGP
10.1
384 MB
Radeon Mac Edition (AGP)

I booted into 9.2.1 and ran the installer as directed. After rebooting (to allow flashing?) [no - the AGP cards are not flashed. The extension loads to patch the ROM. only the PCI Radeons use the flasher as noted in the readme and flash rom application-Mike] I then installed the ROM Xtender file into my os X partition. After rebooting into 10.1 I noticed a problem. Driving my 19" CRT at 1152x870 @ 75 Hz I noticed a dark horizontal bar moving slowly down the display. It was quite distracting once you noticed it (the bar was somewhat faint). I removed the ROM Xtender file and rebooted then all was well again.

On another note I was hoping to pick up the Radeon VE as a cheap PCI card to drive my second monitor. Any word on a release date for that card? Currently I'm using a Voodoo3 which works, but with no acceleration at all under 10.
--
John M. "

One reader posted a note in the forums that he called ATI and was told the VE has been delayed until late October.


" On my machine (Beige G3/266 with a NewerTech G4/400 ZIF upgrade, a SBL, and a Radeon PCI) the machine would kernal panic every time I tried to start it up through OS X (PB and Final). Now, after installing the ROM update, it starts up fine, and runs smooth.
Go figure. Thought the problem was the SBL. Oh well, at least it works now.
Cheers,
Paul "

SBL = Sound Blaster Live I assume.


" I have two radeons in my system, both retail.
One of them is AGP and the other is PCI. Update only worked for PCI version. There is no performance or any other improvements, I can see. However at the startup; AGP monitor turns off then around 3-4 seconds later turn on again and continues to startup without problem. So, update add around extra 4 seconds to my startup. Good job ATI. Keep going. Well I hope they do something about this, may a rom update for AGP?
-- Bahadir C. "

The ROM extender file is the update for cards that are not flashed (ie non-PCI Radeon models). it loads at startup to patch the card's rom via a temporary patch in memory. (this has been done before by ATI - my G4/500 DP already had an older version of the file installed)


" Mike, Just wanted to let you know that the latest ROM update posted by ATI seems to have fixed the problem with using ATI video cards with OS X on pre-beige G3 PCI powermacs. I have a PM 7500, Sonnet G3/500, running OS 9.1 and 10.0.3, and an ATI Radion. Up until today, I have never been able to use my Radion with OS X. I am happy to report that I am using OS X with two monitors connected to both the Radion and built-in video, and it is accelerated. However, OS X doesn't seem to want to work with only one monitor connected to the Radion. Perhaps adding a VGA adapter to the built-in video will solve this problem?
Regards,
David "

doesn't help he later said.


(10/1/2001 dated reports follow)

" My monitor resolution is set for 1280x1024. At start up the resolution would be 800x600, until just before the extensions would start to show, then it would switch to 1280x1024. With the update, it now starts immediately at the chosen resolution.
Beige G3
PCI Radeon
Nick Scott
(OS 9.2.1 on a 30 gig Maxtor (7200rpm), and 10.1 on a 13 gig Maxtor(5400rpm) Both are on a Sonnet IDE PCI card.) "


" Hi Mike,
I installed the update today on my PM8500/G3/400 MacOS 9.1 with ATI Nexus 128 card. Installed fine and restarted OK with no problems since. Haven't noticed any change to performance yet.
Regards,
Mark Srebnik "


" I have a stock AGP Rage 128 and an extra Nexus 128 ATI card running in a Dual 450 G4. The Nexus card lost all but one resolution after updating to OS 10.1. I was considering going out and getting a new card but after doing the manual OS X ATI rom update, all my resolutions returned. I am very pleased.
Kev "


" Hello Mike
I used the update on the retail Radeon card in my PM 8500, since I did the update I've lost all the Geometry, Color & AV controls in the Monitors control panel in OS 9.1, I did the usual stuff pram zapping etc etc but to no avail, my AppleVision 1710av is now recognised as a "Display". I'm not that bothered about it, I'm hoping the kernel panic is fixed in OS X so maybe I can install that on it.

It's likely that this issue would also affect 750 & 850av's and the ColorSync derivatives.
Please warn you readers.
Thanks
Regards
Mick Bramley "


" Hi there Mike
This ATI update is excellent. It brought back all the functionality I needed from 9.2 and 10.0.4. The TV out works again. Also, before this update, I had problems with the display preference crashing in 10.1. That's gone as well, and all the resolutions are avalible again. I love 10.1 and now I love it even more! Bring on those drivers every vendor!
Cheers!
P. "


" i have done everything the tech support asked including the ROM xtender still have redraw errors they can't answer why

after flashing an ATI RADEON MAC EDITION PCI with the 9.01 update just listed on there site in a digital audio 466 with 768mb of ram. when moving the mouse under mac osx the screen fails to redraw correctly mostly in internet explorer. it happens in all resolutions and bit depth. did everything the tech support says to and still have the problems.
Scott H. "


" Hey Mike:
Tried the updater to my DP 500 with the retail AGP Radeon card.
As far as I know the ROM update only applies to the PCI Radeon. But there is still a new ROM Xtender file installed into the system folder.

After installation, reboot....during startup the monitor does goes off for two seconds and and turned on again....after the boot up the monitor resolution is set to 1152x768 by default, finder quits (when I first got my Radeon card the finder quitted once).
I also have to recalibrate my monitor again......
Pollux "

I asked for more details like OS version used, if there could be any extensions conflict, etc. I updated my DP 500 with retain Radeon AGP (same system) without problems (running OS 9.2.1 and OS X 10.1.


If you've applied the update, please send me your comments. (Please include details on your card type/model, OS version used, system and if running OS X, if you copied over the ROM extender file to OS X.)

Related Articles:
For a full copy of the ROM Update Readme file including OS X (manual install) instructions, see this page. The ATI 9/1 (Sept. 2001) ROM updater is available at http://mirror.ati.com/support/drivers/mac/atimacrom901.html.
For reviews of ATI graphics cards and others - use the Video topics page link below.

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