|Lightwave 3D problems with ATI OS X drivers?|
Last updated: 10/2/2003 (for *driver update* from ATI)
ATI Driver Update Posted: Bruno of ATI sent an email today (10/2/2003) that the patch for the Lightwave 3D issues with some ATI graphics chips (noted earlier below) has been posted at http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4267.html.
LightWave may hang while rotating an object or using Modeler
This information applies to the following configuration:
- RADEON 8500 MAC EDITION
- RADEON 9000 PRO MAC EDITION
(and 9000 Mobility in some PowerBook G4s
- Mac OS X version 10.2.5 to 10.2.8
- Newtek LightWave 7.5c
The system may hang while rotating an object or using Modeler
in Lightwave. This issue does not occur in earlier versions of Mac OS
Users experiencing this issue are advised to download
and install the ATI RADEON 8500/9000 HotFix for
Before you install this hotfix, please read the release notes.
If Mac OS X is updated to 10.2.6 or 10.2.8 afterwards, this
hotfix will have to be reinstalled.
The release notes mention that Alias' Maya may also be affected.
I welcome reports from those that were affected by this after applying the update. (Please include Mac model/graphics chip used, OS X version, etc. in reports. Thanks)
ATI Comments on Update to fix Lightwave3D/OS X Issue ATI wrote in reply to the OS X 10.2.5 and later driver issue with Lightwave 3D noted below:
The specific problem was identified by our engineers and it affects RADEON 8500, RADEON 9000 and MOBILITY RADEON 9000. It has been fixed for both Mac OS X 10.2.6 and 10.2.8 release streams and is undergoing additional testing. This fix will make its way onto the ATI.COM web site as a "hotfix" - it will be a single component installation affecting only the above-mentioned chips. Only people affected by this specific problem need to download the update. Another news posting will come when the file is ready for the web. "
Interesting confirmation on the models affected - a reader said a new Alum. 15in Powerbook w/9600 Mobility was not affected by the bug.
(clip from the 9/23/2003 news page)
I haven't had time to repeat the tests he noted below (last night I did try rotating characters with LW 7.5c/10.2.6 without problems though with an ATI 9000 card installed) but wondering if any other ATI card owners with Lightwave 3D can test to see if they have a problem. (See later reader reports below for feedback confirming this problem)
Im from Australia and have been a longtime reader here.
We Lightwavers are looking for a voice to help us.
We noticed you guys use Lightwave in your Benchmarks and have a huge
voice in the mac community.
Lightwave since 10.2.5 has received a nasty Open GL bug that simply
makes using lightwave (and maya now)
UNUSABLE. It freezes the system ala os9 style needing a force restart.
This happens when u rotate in the perspective view.
(see below - I could not repeat the problem here with that simple a test-Mike) Apple says its ATI's fault, so does Newtek. (I wrote a contact at NewTek to get his comments on this)
Nvidia cards do not get this problem!
This has gone ignored and denied from ATI for 8 months now!
Many posts have been started about this problem, on apples support
forums and Newteks.
The 10.2.8 update did nothing to fix this at all
We cannot use FCP4 as it needs 10.2.5 or higher.
(I don't understand that comment but asked what
OS X version is used and what Lightwave 3D version
is used. Also asked if they had run repair permissions after
any ATI driver updates - as mentioned before here (most recently on the 1.1 ATI driver installer for the 9800) it often shows a ton of corrections - literally every ATI driver file. May not matter but just a FYI.-Mike)
Ran repair permissions and etc from disk utility, about to run a fsck
in sudo now.
What i was saying before is all us lightwavers are stuck in 10.2.4
because it doesnt crash BUT we cannot install FCP4 as it requires
10.2.5 or higher.
I just installed 10.2.8 and the problem with lightwave still is there.
(using LW 7.5c he later said-Mike)
Some threads started:
(Apple forum thread)
(he later wrote)
THIS sequence WILL 100% crash lightwave (make sure you're not running anything unsaved)
- Open Modeler.
- Make sure viewports are set to the standard "Quad" setup.
- Set the shader for the "Top" viewport to "Wireframe Shade". And set
the shader for the "Perspective" viewport to "Wireframe Shade".
- Make a Box, 1m x 1m x 1m, and centered on the Origin. (You can use
the Numeric panel if you wish...)
- Drop the box tool (and don't select anything.)
- Now hit B (for bevel)
- In the "Top" viewport, use your mouse and (Bevel) Shift 2m (offset
- Now, right-drag and (Bevel) Shift 500mm (offset 0m)
- Now, right-drag and (Bevel) Shift 250mm (offset 0m)
- ...Shift 100mm (offset 0m)
(just keep bevelling and it will crash)
I'm too swamped to try this now but if any other ATI card/Lightwave 3D owners try the above let me know if you see a hard feeze or problem. Please include system/os/card/LW version details in reports - Thanks.
Reader Reports: (most recent first)
Mike, I've been having the same problem running lightwave modeler 7.5b, dual
g4 450, 10.2.6 (now 10.2.8), radeon 8500, 1.5g ram. Modeler runs
perfectly normal for awhile, then crashes. It seems to happen when
switching layers or moving in a perspective window. The clock stops
and I get a spinning cursor and no response. I have to push the
restart button and reboot.
I haven't had any problems like this under
any other circumstances. I didn't even think that OSX was capable of
locking up like this. From what I've read on Newtek forum this only
happens with 10.2.5 and above and ATI graphics cards. Apparently
Nvidia cards are not affected.
I hope somebody fixes this before my
dual g5 arrives. I'll feel pretty stupid having spent all that extra
money on a radeon 9800 when an inexpensive Nvidia card would work much
better with my favorite piece of software.
This is an extremely serious problem. We have had it since April and
communicated it repeatedly to ATI and Apple.
Lightwave Modeler crashes from just a simple rotation in perspective
mode in wireframe shaded view.
Workflow is seriously hindered.
We have sent in our crash logs, ATI admits it is a FSAA problem with no
solution as of yet. (running FSAA in Lightwave? I didn't think
it supported FSAA in LW 3D, unless using the 9800 Pro retail cards
Apple is forcing ATI cards on us with the new top end G5's. I believe
it is politics and uneducated business decisions.
The Lightwave community is outraged!
Thanks for listening,
Hi Mike, Love the site by the way - a daily reader on your site!
I thought I had to comment on the Lightwave issue as it's been going on
far too long now. I have been (notice the past tense!) using Lightwave
for months with this problem, and have literally given up on it as it
does in fact render your system useless. - I love OS X, and love it's
stability and love the fact that it's supposedly 'un-crashable'. -
However, a 5-min bout of Lightwave - swivel a simple cube or something
in the perspective window with shading on and CRASH BANG WALLOP! - HUGH
OS 9 - Style freeze - TOTAL LOCK-OUT!! Nothing gets out of this
problem - (believe me I've tried). Lightwave Updates, Driver Updates,
OS X updates - nothing fixes it.
By all accounts ATI is the culprit -I'll say it again ATI IS THE CULPRIT!!
- The OpenGL Drivers/Card compatibility needs to be fixed!!
So far (bearing in mind this is 8 months on since the problem originally surfaced) ATI has as far as 'acknowledged there is a problem', but are us Lightwave/ATI users going
to have to wait another 8 months, before we can be able to use
Dual G4 1.25Ghz, OS X 10.2.6, Radeon 9000, 640Mb RAM, Lightwave 7.5c
Hi Mike, I have had this problem for months also!
PowerMac G4 dual 500 ATI 8500
and PowerBook G4 400mhz and 667mhz
The PowerBook G4 400mhz has the additional problem of broken GL windows
which require a restart to fix. But this does not lock up the machine
like the GL rotation problem.
Some other interactive tools also cause a system freeze (like Richard
Brak's Rounder plugin ).
Sadly now Apples whole high end line features ATI cards including
laptops. This is my biggest reason for for weak interest in the G5 or
It would really be nice if someone would show a little more concern
about this part of there market.
Thanks again for exposing this problem on you site!
I am affected by this Bug as well. I am running an ATI Radeon 8500 AGP card
with 1 gig of RAM on a G4 450. After upgrading to 10.2.5 and 10.2.6 I had to
reinstall down to 10.2.4 because rotating in perspective view in modeler
froze the system. This is very repeatable under 10.2.5 and up. High geometry
doesn't seem to make a difference either. I've seen a freeze rotating a 6
poly cube. It seems that rotating fast can cause the crash as well.
After downgrading to 10.2.4 I do not experience this problem, and so will
not upgrade again until I know it's fixed.
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