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Reader Reports on ATI Radeon/Rage128 April 2002 driver updateReturn to News Page

Reader Reports on ATI Radeon/Rage128 April 2002 driver Update
Published: 4/9/2002
(Updated 5/6/2002 for OS X 10.1.4 Compatible installer update)
(Updated 6/24/2002 for note on June 2002 driver udpate)


June 2002 Driver Update for OS X 10.1.5/OS 9.x On 6/24/2002, ATI posted another driver update. The installer updates drivers for Mac OSX (Mac OSX 10.1 to 10.1.5) as well as for Mac OS9 (9.2.1 or higher). This update includes a number of improvements, details of which can be found in the Read me which covers OS 9 and OS X info, game notes, etc. To download the drivers, go to
http://www.ati.com/support/drivers/mac/macos-june-2002-update.html

(Previous driver update info follows)

Installer Update for OS X 10.1.4 (from the 5/6/2002 main news page) ATI has updated the March 2002 driver update installer so that it installs all files if run under OS X 10.1.4. (The previous installer was made for OS X versions up to 10.1.3 - if ran under 10.1.4 it didn't install all the driver files, usually only the ATI utilities.) Get the updated installer at
http://ati.com/support/drivers/mac/macos-march-2002-update.html.
Note: I've had a Radeon 7000 owner say the above update solved the corrupted video after wake from sleep in OS X that was seen w/10.1.5.

Radeon 8500 Firmware Update: (from the May 2nd, 2002 www.xlr8yourmac.com news page)
ATI posted a v126 firmware update to the Radeon 8500 AGP card for those owners that have an early shipping card. Use Apple System Profiler (or the ATI Displays Control Panel in OS X) to check your 8500's firmware. If the last 3 digits are 123 (BIOS 113-85710-123), then this -126 update should fix problems that you may have seen in OS 9 with the -123 rom cards in Macs that have 4x AGP. (2001 Digital Audio and later models like the Quicksilver have 4x AGP slots.)
See http://ati.com/support/infobase/4021.html for notes (The mouse appears frozen or One or more displays appear blank in OS 9) and a download link to the firmware updater. (I always run firmware updaters after a clean boot into OS 9 - not from OS X/classic.)
Before applying the firmware update make sure you read the Release Notes.



On 4/9/2002 ATI posted a page with the March 2002 Radeon driver update (they later said these drivers are not fully tested on all cards/configs.)
The requirements note OS 9.2.1 or higher (due to OpenGL version required) and OS X 10.1 or higher. Here's the official list of supported cards:

    " RADEON 8500 MAC EDITION
    RADEON 7000 MAC EDITION
    RADEON MAC EDITION
    RAGE 128 Mac products such as RAGE ORION,
    NEXUS 128, XCLAIM VR 128 "

The basic drivers should also work with OEM Radeon and Rage128 cards and onboard Rage128/Mobility chips also - less the ATI retail card control panels and video out features which don't work with OEM cards. See the Readme file for install info (run the installer in OS X and then reboot to OS 9 to run the installer again to update the OS 9 drivers. Just in case, I always like to make a copy of my current OS 9 drivers before updating. And if you're running OS X 10.1.2 and update to 10.1.3 after the ATI driver update, you'll need to reinstall the ATI update.)
This should also fix the 8500's OS X/dual monitor scrolling issue noted here last week and add FSAA support for the original Radeon (as well as reportedly increasing 3D performance at least for the 7500 and 8500 cards.)
I welcome feedback on these drivers from readers. (Please include your graphics card, systems and OS details in reports. Thanks!)

NOTE: As I said in the news post please note your system details and card info (AGP or PCI card, AGP or PCI mac, etc.) Several reports didn't note AGP or PCI card or AGP or PCI mac, etc. (A "G4/400" could be a Yikes G4/PCI or a G4/AGP Mac - and "Radeon Mac Edition" could be a PCI or AGP card.) If you want to compare performance, remember to run tests *before* the driver update as well as after. (Thanks...)

Note: For a list of what each ATI extension does see the Video cards section of the FAQ. (Specifically the Q: What is the purpose of all those ATI Graphics card driver extensions? item)

DVD Playback Issue (flickering blocks/corrupted image): I didn't see this at first but after a reader reported he saw it after running a game of Unreal Tournament X, I was able to repeat the problem here (using an 8500 Radeon AGP). I ran a quick game of Quake3 (opengl of course) and exited the game - then ran the DVD player and saw the same 'flickering blocks' in the image. I don't know if this affects other card models but ATI is aware of the issue. Rebooting is the only fix so far. (Logging out and logging back in did not help in my experience.)


Reader Feedback on the April 2002 Driver Update: (latest reports first)

= Quick Links to Reports by Card Type =
Radeon 8500 AGP | Radeon 7500 AGP | Radeon AGP | Rage128 AGP
Radeon PCI | Radeon 7000 PCI | Rage128 PCI (Orion/OEM/VR128)
(Onboard Graphics chips)
Rage128 Mobility | Radeon Mobility

8500 Radeon Owner Comments on Startup Items: A Radeon 8500 AGP card owner that still had dual display/OS X problems (clicking on a scroll arrow showed display text inside the file open dialog which I could not repeat here) wrote he found a solution related to his OS X startup items:

" I installed the new update and still had the classic problem. I then ran Red Faction {which worked properly before} and had stripes through the display. The game was unplayable. I rebooted the machine and still had the same problems.

I remembered running an update for something else that installed a program in the startup items in the login panel. This update did not correctly update the startup panel item. Grasping at straws I opened the login panel preferences and removed the ATI monitor. I then re-added it. I also made it the first item to run. [I asked Mark for a list of his other startup items to note here-Mike]

Everything, including classic is working properly now. My guess is that making the ATI monitor launch first is what fixed things although I haven't tested moving it back. It was last previously.
Do you know what this app does?

Please report this to ATI for me as I have given up all hope of getting any customer service from them. If it wasn't for sites like yours there would be no support for some products. Thanks again and keep up the great work!
Mark "

Another Radeon 8500 AGP owner report:

(added 4/10/2002)
" Good gravy! This update is great! Quake III is very fast 1.3.1b4. Not that it was not fast before this update, but a very nice improvement. I would say about 30 to 50%. How do I get a demo to run in that? [See the Q3 FPS Q&A in the gaming section of our FAQ. (the bold/red "Got Questions?" link on the main front page-Mike]

Red Faction looks and plays soooo well at 2x FSAA @ 1024x768. How do I get the FPS in that game? [I don't know - tried searching the web and found cheats but no FPS rate info. If anyone knows write me.-Mike]

Unreal X. How do I turn on FSAA? [See the Gaming section of the FAQ-Mike]
Frames don't seem any better that I have noticed. Fast, and plays very well, but not any different than before the update. To late now :) .
The last update to UT X made my mouse feel great so I am way to happy with that alone...

G4/AGP (400mhz original) upgraded to a Dual 500mhz sonnet encore duet
1gb PC 100mhz 2-2-2 Ram
OS X.1.3
15" Apple Studio display (tripod stand) @ 1024x768 32bit
Ati Radeon 8500 AGP 64mb Graphic card

3 HD (all 7200rpm and ATA 100)
20gb Maxtor (2 Partitions OS 9 (10gb) OS X (10gb)
45gb Maxtor (music, games, and applications)
80gb WD (Music and video 2 Partitions)
dj "

Blocks in DVD Playback

(added 4/10/2002)
" I have a bad DVD playback problem with the new ati march drivers. I have a g4/450/8500 The 1.0.0 drivers work well for dvd playback. The new march drivers cause many square blocky artifacts to appear all over the screen during playback. They go away in fast forward. They don't appear in static screens either. I reverted to the first drivers and the problems are gone. It's a shame as the game performance looked very good with the march drivers.
HenryIV
[ He later wrote]
Well, I reverted to the 1.0.0 drivers and then booted to os9.2.2 and applied the up-date there. DVD worked fine in os9. I then booted back to 10.1.3 and re-applied the march 2002 drivers. For some reason this seems to have fixed it as now DVDs play fine with no artifacts. Lord knows why, but its better now. Thank goodness. "

As noted in an update above - the 'blocks' appear if the DVD player is run after a game like Quake3 or UT X. (Perhaps any OpenGL game, at least with the Radeon 8500). Rebooting is the only fix so far. (Logging out and logging back in did not help.)

(added 4/10/2002)
" Hi Mike,
So far I have to say that I am disappointed, as far as game performance is concerned. I bought this card for the dual display capability, the quality of the 2d output and performance that I thought would rival that of my flashed Visiontek Geforce3. It does not deliver the latter.

dual gigger [Dual 1GHz G4]
768mb ram
Radeon 8500 mac edition AGP
Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2060U
Envision 7100e LCD

In OSX my fps (compared to 1.0.0 driver release) went from 120 fps to 122-130 fps
In OS9 my fps went down from 120fps to 100fps!?

I am likewise disappointed by the ATi display control panel which seems to do nada. I have gotten used to windows control panels which allow one to turn FSAA on and off manually as well as anisotropic filtering.
Thanks for the great site. I just wish I could register for the forums :-(
Tim"


Radeon PCI Reports:

(added 4/17/2002)
" Installed the March 2002 Retail Update yesterday on my G3 upgraded 8500 running a PCI Radeon. Didn't notice any speed increase in Quake 2, but Unreal Tournament seems a bit more responsive. I only have a 400MHz CPU so this will be the limiting factor for me.

However, a bug in MacDraft I reported earlier to ATI is now gone. Previously if you selected any of the drawing tools and before you actually used the tool, moved it around on the screen, random stray dots appeared on the drawing surface. This does not happen anymore.
Thank you ATI!
"

(added 4/11/2002)
" Hi there, I just wanted to tell you that after installing this update (besides everything running well with the OS itself) I ran a quick Quake II (FruitzOfDojo- latest OS X version) time demo and my fps had shot up from a paultry 34fps to a more acceptable 48fps! Even before seeing the numerical result the demo was noticeably smoother and displayed a lot more frames whereas before it was noticeably choppy. This still doesn't really compare to the 59.8fps I'd get on average in the latest OS 9 version but it's a hell of a lot better.

My setup: Blue G3/500/384MB RAM/MacOS X.1.3/Retail RadeonPCI in 66MHz slot and a SWEEET Razer Boomslang 2000 (sorry, HAD to throw that in!)
Peace!
Ralph
PS for those who don't know, the commands for running the Quake II timedemo are:
timedemo 1
demomap demo1.dm2"

(Reader FYI - this info on FPS testing in Quake2, Quake1, Quake3, UT, etc. is also in the FAQ's Game and Game Controllers section. Way down the list of Questions there since it's info posted for several years now.)

(added 4/10/2002)
" Hi Mike, ...I've yet to do much testing, altho hopefully I'll have time for some more tomorrow. For now:
Beige G3 w/450Mhz/1Mb OWC Mercury ZIF @ 466Mhz, 512Mb RAM, PCI Radeon OS X (10.1.3)
====
ATIRadeon.kext 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRadeon8500.kext 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRadeon8500DVDDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRadeonDVDDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRadeonGA.plugin 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRadeonGLDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128.kext 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128DVDDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128GA.plugin 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128GLDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128GA.plugin 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRage128GLDriver.bundle 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATIRageProGA.plugin 1.1.5-> 1.1.9
ATITVOut.kext 1.0.1-> 1.0.1 (altho modification date has changed)

Interesting that the RagePro Graphics Acceleration plugin has been updated altho whether any actual code has changed is doubtful (no difference on my 6Mb on-board RagePro, still unrecognised). At least ATI are keeping the RagePro stuff in the code-base leaving the doors open for some support in the future, altho as time goes on this becomes more unlikely. Also the ATITVOut kernel extension has been modified, but the version number not changed. It's nice that the ATI Displays app fully supports the Radeon now with the DVD and Mac2TV controls.

I've had a quick look at FSAA on the OttoMatic demo and it's looking good, not quite up to what I remember the V5 managed, but given the different techniques used that's not surprising. [For 8500s that support TruForm, that makes a very noticeable different in OttoMatic as I noted in my Radeon 8500 review. I think TruForm could be far more beneficial than FSAA in my opinion.-Mike] Hopefully this form of FSAA will be implemented in more games (both new ones and older releases via patches) and the next version of OpenGL will have shader support for those lucky enough to have 8500's!
All the best,
ben "

Radeon PCI + GeForce2MX AGP Owner Report:

(added 4/10/2002)
" Mike-
I attempted (twice) to install this update on my 533DP G4 running MacOS 10.1.3 without success. I have a dual-monitor setup with the OEM Geforce2 MX AGP card (17in ADC CRT display) and a Radeon Mac Edition PCI card (ColorSync 750 display via VGA). The updater installs only the ATI utility application (big whoopee), a scriptlet in the utility folder that I cannot deduce the function of, and the readme file. Despite having a laundry list of X files that are supposed to be updated, none of the System files were touched. The installer appears to know it's doing nothing, because it doesn't ask for a restart when completed. As this is a Mindvision installer, I am not able to peek inside the installer package to check what components are there and compare the versions of the components to what is already there.
Craig
I asked if he tried with the ATI card's display being the primary (menu bar) monitor and he later wrote

Mike-
Here's the followup. I retested this in a number of different ways last night, and still no joy.

1) set menubar to ATI screen before install
2) set menubar to ATI screen, logout, login and install
3) run Vise installer as root using Pseudo repeating #1 and #2 above
4) set menubar to ATI screen and login with startup items disabled (shift key)
5) set menubar to ATI screen and reboot before installing

The installer fails after authenticating ATI part 2 with 16 items remaining to install, although it then says the installation completed successfully each time. The installer logfile just shows the utilities being installed and none of the components. The installed ATI display utility does identify the card properly.

The only things I didn't do were attempt this in single user mode, moving the Radeon card to a different PCI slot, and pulling the Geforce card. I doubt single user will accomplish anything, and I'm not at all keen to crack the case of the machine just to get a patch to run. It doesn't look like permissions are messed up for any of the target files that should be replaced or the parent directories. Sigh. I need to file this as a bug report with ATI-do you have a contact for this?
Craig "

I'll forward Craig's mail to my ATI contacts.

(added 4/10/2002)
" Dear Mike,
I'm experiencing problems with the ATI March Update 2002. My system is a beige G3 Mac upgraded with Newer G4 card running at 433MHz with 576MB memory, Radeon PCI card and MacOS 9.2.2 US. Installing the update froze my system. Reinstalling the former drivers v1.1.1,the problem was gone. Conflict Catcher reported that the ATI Driver Extension (v2.8.5) was using more system heap that reqesting and that I should disable it if I was experiencing any problems. The only way to avoid frozing the system was to install the initial drivers.
Hi from Greece
-John A. "

More Radeon PCI/Beige G3 owner reports:

(added 4/10/2002)
" Dear Mike,
Currently I am running a Beige G3 desktop with an ati radeon pci in OS X 10.1.3. I notice smooth performace with this update. Very nice performance and window resizing is smoother as well. Less hesitation on window drawing/moving. Very glad I purchased the radeon pci for OS X use!
Christopher S."

(added 4/10/2002)
" See if anyone reports this.
Radeon Mac Edition [not the 7000 I assume]
Beige G3
Has allowed me to run OS X on Beige G3 and I have been happy with that. Installed March 2002 Retail Update (the new one) in both 9.2.1 and 10.1.3.

The image quality to me just wasn't as crisp-I have an excellent Trinitron monitor.
Went back to Jan 2002 Retail Update in 9.2.1-images crisper again

(NOTE: The drivers that came with the Radeon Mac Edition never would install: I tried the CD; copied the installer to a hard disk and tried extensions on and extenions off, downloaded the same installer-in all cases CRASHED. Fortunately, the Jan 2002 drivers installed.)

In OS X, it will be a task but I am tracking down everything in the installation log and destroying and I have the original 10.1.3 drivers safely on another computer to copy over.

I think Apple has a much better handle on ATI's own boards than ATI does.
[Actually ATI supplies drivers to Apple, always has as far as I know.-Mike]
Sincerely, even if a minority report, David"

Radeon PCI/B&W G3:

(added 4/10/2002)
"Blue & White G4 (ZIF upgraded)
896MB ram
Mac Radeon Edition PCI
OS X 10.1.3

The installation went well, but it took a while to reboot. The "One Moment Please" window was on for a minute or so before the actual reboot. Upon reboot, the computer seemed like it was going to work, but froze with a gray screen. Flashing the PRAM 3 times in a row (I learned this from Apple Tech Support) fixed the problem and everything works great now.
Tommy "

Zapping the pram (I always recommend at last 3 chimes before releasing the keys) is an old tip when you see quirky things after video card/driver updates, etc. (or even CPU upgrades, or CDRW drive swaps sometimes.)


Radeon 7000 PCI/B&W G3s:

(added 4/11/2002)
" Hey Mike :)
System Specs:
B&W G3/400 (rev. 2)
Radeon 7000 PCI (replaced OEM Rage128)
896MB ram
OS X 10.1.3 exclusive
19" KDS Avitron primary
15" Sony Multiscan 15sx secondary (on DVI port with included ATI adapter)

Update ran smoothly with the exception of idling upon clicking "reboot". It didn't "freeze up" as I could still right click on the icon in the dock and have the various options available. However quitting the application didnŐt do anything. After a force quit I re-ran the installation again (to be safe). This time my options were "continue" and "quit"...the "reboot" button had disappeared. After a reboot everything went fine.

I've read reports of the 2nd display having "fuzzy" text, however I have never seen this, before nor after the update.

Quicktime would play a rather large mpeg (vcd) file around 10fps before the update, after in the high 20's, provided I didn't adjust the brightness or contrast, which dropped back to the previous frame rates. While the driver update did help improve playback drastically, I also suspect the CPU is a major factor here. Windows Media Player playback gained a very much needed performance boost...if you discount the video quality, the speed was right up there with Quicktime...amazing :)

DVD playback hasn't seemed to change, however (and I have no clue if this was the case before the update) playing a DVD full screen on the primary works fine...until I click on a window on the secondary monitor. DVD Player then exits full screen, opting for it's largest windowed size. While this may be intentional, it's a tad bit inconvenient, as I would love to browse the web or check email on the 15" while watching a movie full screen on the other. I guess I'm just picky like that :)

I don't use iTunes visuals very often, so I can't report on any performance issues.

I'm also not a gamer, however I do play The Sims, which gained a decent speed boost. That could be because of the reboot after the update and not the update itself (I only reboot when an update requires it).
Brent R.
http://www.damaged.net/~buzzcut/ "

(added 4/10/2002)
" So far, so good.
Installed the update on Blue + White Rev.2 with XLR8 G4/500 and Radeon 7000, PCI obviously on both OSX 10.1.3 and 9.2.2 on separate partitions.

Update went fine first time on both systems. Seems a little smoother in most apps, particularly in IE on OSX.
Peter L "

And another B&W G3/7000 Card owner report:

(added 4/10/2002)
" Hi Mike,
I'm running a Blue and White G3 rev 1 350Mhz machine with a Radeon 7000. It enables adaptive deinterlacing for DVD playback under OS X (previously only available under OS 9). Other than that, there don't seem to be any differences in performance, but no problems as well.
Jeff"

Radeon 7000 PCI/PowerMac 7500:

(added 4/10/2002)
" PowerMac 7500
G3/266 on XLR8 MPe card
OS 9.1
OS 10.1.2; 10.1.3 right through Java update and the latest security update XPostFacto 2.1.1 and the new beta version. Can boot between 9 and X, reboot in X flawlessly Radeon 7000 PCI with new (March 2002) drivers
NO GO in OS X.

Installed drivers before card, CUDA, PRAM, etc., re-installed drivers after card; adapter on onboard video, adapter off, no internal VRAM-JUST NO GO Otherwise great system, I have burned CDRs at 24X through Firewire on this setup
David S."

There's been an issue noted with the 7000 daul output card and OS X in Beige G3 and older machines since mid-January here on the 7000 owner reports page (acknowledged by ATI). Again I hear an OS X update will be required to fix this issue.

Radeon 7000 PCI/Beige G3:

" Hi Mike,
I have a Radeon 7000 in my Beige G3. The March update seems to work fine, and even improves performance. In the Quake 3 1.30 time demo I scored 8 or 9 FPS higher after the update. Funny thing about the FSAA though. In Red Faction it seemed to greatly slow down the game, and the main menu wouldn't even load under 4x FSAA.
With no FSAA enabled it ran normally (800x600, 32-bit for all settings). QuickTime performance shows no change, either negative or positive. The dual-monitor support still works (I had installed the 8500 update). That's about all I have to report.
Will G. "
Radeon 7000 PCI/Beige G3:

" Hi Mike, I have a Radeon 7000 in my Beige G3. The March update seems to work fine, and even improves performance. In the Quake 3 1.30 time demo I scored 8 or 9 FPS higher after the update. Funny thing about the FSAA though. In Red Faction it seemed to greatly slow down the game, and the main menu wouldn't even load under 4x FSAA. With no FSAA enabled it ran normally (800x600, 32-bit for all settings). QuickTime performance shows no change, either negative or positive. The dual-monitor support still works (I had installed the 8500 update). That's about all I have to report.
Mark S. "

I don't know what his problem is but I cannot repeat this here - I installed the update, opened PShop 5.5 (runs in classic) and did a 'file open' - hit the scroll arrow, etc. - no image oddities.

Radeon 7000 PCI/Beige G3:

(added 4/9/2002)
" Beige G3/500
OS 9.2.1
768mb ram
ATI Radeon 7000

ATI's newest driver update seems to have killed Unreal support. I have tried Unreal 1.0, 2.2.4b1 and 2.2.4b7.

All three versions will either
1) Crash with Error 2 when using software rendering

2) fail to display any kind of picture when using Glide support (can quit back to finder) Note: Glide mode is for 3dfx cards only-Mike

3) completely lock up the system when using the Rave mode (requires complete system reboot)

Haven't tried anything else with the card yet.
Joel
He later wrote
Here is a followup to my earlier email.
I have tried Unreal and SixtyForce 0.6.0 with the new software update. As long as either program runs in windowed mode, they are fine. but if I try to run them in full screen, then I start having the problems I mentioned earlier. "

Radeon 7000 PCI (assume Beige G3):

(added 4/9/2002)
" No beige G3 Radeon 7000 Mac edition OS X support! Not for me anyway. I have tried the "remove other driver" trick but no luck !
Keeping the card and waiting ...
BR / JG "

(He didn't note his System details - I'm assuming a Beige G3 or earlier Mac.) Back in January here the 7000 reports page noted the issue with Beige G3 (and earlier macs) with OS X and a dual head card like the 7000. The info I have (as I said several times before) is that an OS X fix will be needed to address this.


iBook Reports:

(added 4/12/2002)
" I installed the ATI driver update on my 500 MHz iBook with Rage 128 Mobility the day it came out. At first, I didn't notice any problems (or enhancements for that matter). But recently, I tried to play Star Trek Voyager Elite Force and the Sims Livin' Large, but had problems. Elite Force wouldn't fully load, and The Sims froze in the middle of the game, force quitting solved both of these problems.

To try and fix this, I logged out and in again, but no go. Also, I noticed that while logging out, the menu bar turned the OS X blue color, and the dock reverted to just the background. So, I reloaded the old ATI drivers from the backup I made sure to do, restarted, and now everything seems to be working fine. So, keep those old ATI drivers around, you may need them.
Mike V."

(added 4/11/2002)
it has made os 10.1.3 so much smoother, genie effect, dock, multiple windows and screen redraw in apps that use OpenGL heavily on my 500MHz ibook dual usb 192mb ram ATI mobility Rage 128 2xAGP
Ed J.
Graphic Designer/Digital Manager "

(added 4/11/2002)
I installed the update last night on my 2000 Firewire iBook SE (Rage 128 Mobility) running OS X 10.1.3. As far as I've been able to tell, it did help. Scrolling seems to be faster and graphics seem to paint faster in Internet Explorer (once they're rendered off-screen). Of course, I haven't run any objective tests, so my observations are entire subjective. However, I have definitely seen no ill effects.
Alan S. "

PowerBook G4 Reports: (most recent first)

Just a FYI - I installed the driver update in OS 9 and OS X on a PowerBook G4/667. I tested DVD playback in OS 9.2.2 and OS X 10.1.3 - I see no problems at all (no varying brightness, no blocks in the image, etc. - even after running an OpenGL game like Quake3). I verifed that the drivers were installed although the "ATI Monitor" was not shown as a startup item after the install on my PB G4. (It is for desktops, at least with the 8500 AGP card.) I'm not sure why some reported DVD player issues after this update. I do not have any 3rd party OS X appearance/utilities, etc. installed however and the only OS X startup item I have (shown in the login panel) is the Itunes one.

(added 4/11/2002)
" Hi Mike,
I installed the new drivers on my TiPowerbook 667 (rev.b- Rage M6). I'm running OSX 10.1.3 No problems that I can tell. I tested the video out (using the sVideo-->composite adaptor-->TV) and it works. Looks like there are more options on my TV for PAL and NTSC. I have a Panasonic XFSeries TV and the new drivers show lots of resolutions:

My TV didn't work with any of the PAL resolutions (I had hopes I could get the TV to work with a restart when it detected the while the computer put out PAL signal, but no go.)
I opened the system profiler and looked at my ATI extensions:

I still can't watch a DVD on the second monitor (e.g. tv) unless I put the menubar on it and then start the DVD player. That's a bit kludgy. I hope it can be fixed. But shift the Menubar over and the DVD starts right up on the TV.

I watched a DiVX on my TV, worked fine in QT full screen on the TV monitor. Subjectively it seemed cleaner than it used to, but not dramatically.

Scrolling long text documents/pages in OmniWeb seems significantly faster.

Unreal Tournament seems faster. Just running around I'm getting around 65 fps average (widely varying of course). I haven't benched it with a standard demo, but it does seem faster. Nose against a wall my peak frames go to 95 now when before it seemed more limited. Beginning fly through fps peak around 114.

One visual oddity- the grenade launcher just shows a progressing series of semi transparent black squares instead of a smoke trail. Strange bug.
[I've seen this for years with OpenGL UT and both Nvidia and ATI cards - not a problem with Rave mode that I have seen.-Mike]

---
Some older info-(Using the old Video drivers and 10.1.3):
Last weekend I hooked the Powerbook up to a friend's HDTV (ProScan, I think). We used the SVGA second monitor port from the Powerbook. Popped in some DVDs.

WOW! It is an amazing difference. Running Princess Mononoke at 800x600 progressive is phenomenally better than a regular interlaced TV. Same with stuff like the Matrix and Pixar films. The picture quality is much more stable and linework is much cleaner. We all immediately experienced TV envy. :-)

We also played Unreal Tournament on the 36" HDTV. Utterly decadent. Worked beautifully, except UT would crash on start if it didn't find the network. Found this out the hard way when we discovered a loose ethernet cable would cause a crash on start. Probably just needed to change the settings.

I can hardly wait till HDTV's mature as a standard. Apparently you can get ones like what we were watching for around $800 now (they list around $1500 if I recall correctly). At that rate they are tempting even if all it's really good for is watching DVDs.
Hope you haven't covered this all to death on a day I missed. :-)
Ashby "

(added 4/11/2002)
" I have a 550MHz PowerBook G4 Ti. With the new ATI drivers, everything seems fine except for DVD playback. The DVD plays, but the video brightness goes from dim to bright and then back to dim on 10 second intervals. Restoring the old drivers fixed the problem.
Mike G. "

(added 4/9/2002)
"Hey. I have a G4 PB TI, 500Mhz with the ATI Rage[128] Mobility 8 MB (of course all factory built from Apple). I noticed you said this update would work on non-retail cards, so I gave it a shot and it works great.
I have a dual monitor set-up in my office with a Viewsonic P810 21" monitor and I have to admit everything looks crisper in OS 10.1.3. The dock animations are more fluid and there isn't any more ghosting of open folders on the desktop. I guess the update wasn't really made for my setup but it has been great so far.
Matthew M. "

A PowerBook G4/550 owner (which has the Radeon Mobility chip) wrote:

" I installed the new drivers on my TiBook 550 running OS X 10.1.3...I rarely use OS 9 anymore. The ATI Displays app still lists my RADEON Mobility as a "Powered by Unknown ATI Graphics" message [NOTE: as I mentioned for years here in articles and the FAQ and again today in the news post for this driver update - the ATI displays control panel is *only* for the Retail cards!- Mike] -
and does not let me set any options (like DVD deinterlacing or FSAA) although it will give basic info under the "Display Info" and "Profile" tabs.

The good news is that now all of my games that support FSAA (Red Faction [v1.2 update-Mike], SpiderMan, and the Realm Wars Test) actually turn FSAA on. It is most apparent on Realm Wars because you can toggle between no FSAA, 2x and 4x in game and the results are readily apparent. At 800x600 32-bit color FSAA 2x seems to give some smooth results with a negligible drop in frame rate (non-scientific, just my opinion) but 4x does not work at that resolution...in Realm wars does not allow any movement until you drop back to 2x in the others it just gives you a black screen. Drop to 640x480 and 4x works just fine and greatly improves the visuals for such a low resolution...but I think I still prefer 800x600 with 2x FSAA - it seems to be a good compromise between resolution and smoothing.

Is there any improvement in performance? It is hard to say but I am sure someone (maybe me) will do some benchmarking in the near future. I hope ATI/Apple releasing an update that will allow OEM RADEON users to take advantage of all the new features this update brings to the Mac...although enabling FSAA is a step in the right direction. I might have to install the OS 9 version of this update and see if DVD deinterlacing or other options are available there.

I hope other OEM ATI users try this update and let us know how it works for them. I am sure there are plenty of RADEON Mac cards that were ordered with the G4 out there...not to mention all of the Rev. B TiBook owners. Maybe someone can devise a hack that will allow us to turn on DVD deinterlacing...hint, hint.
Good luck,
Scot O. "


Radeon 7500 AGP/Dual G4/800:

" Hi Mike!
..this is not an update.. This is a miracle...
Over 45fps @1280x1024 FSAA on
In Unreal Tournament (prewiev X)
Standard G4@800mhz Ati 7500
Simply amazing.
Daniele T. "

I'm assuming he has a 2002 Quicksilver since he noted a 7500 Radeon, which is available at BTO only with new 2002 G4s. (See the Video topics page, Graphics card section for previous Radeon 7500 vs Geforce4MX tests - before this driver update however.)


Rage128 AGP and/or PCI card Reports:

(added 4/11/2002)
" Hi Mike,
Sawtooth 450 with AGP Rage 128 and PCI Rage 128 retail cards. 640mb ram, OS X 10.1.3

Update installed fine, seems to run fine, except for screensaver mode in OS X using Technichron.saver.
With Technichron selected, the screens flash white patches intermittently. AND, when I open screensavers in the Systems Pref Panel, the whole System Prefs app crashes.
Removing Technichron from the Library>Screen Savers doe solve the problem, but I've grown attached to this cool little app (free) I hope the authors can fix this wee bug soon.
Pete McK"

(added 4/9/2002)
" Just installed the drivers on my G4 dual 450, with 1 AGP and one PCI ATI Rage 128 Pro. So far everything seems fine. The ATI Displays Utility starts but does have an error on statup:

A startup problem has occurred. Cannot connect to ATITVOut Kernel Extension. Some features not available.

Probably due to the fact that these are OEM cards and not retail, and thus do not have the TV Out. Not able to make any modifications through utility, but does show general information and recognizes as ATI card (Unrecognized ATI card). Have not tested to see if there are any performance gains yet, but have also not experienced any problems.
-Louis D. "

(As noted in the news post today and for years here - the OEM cards cannot use the ATI control panel which is for retail cards only.)

XClaim VR128 PCI/Beige G3 reports:

(added 4/10/2002)
" I'm running on a Beige G3 (upgraded to G4/500, overclocked to 525), 512 MB RAM, OSX 10.1.3, QT 5.0.6. I've got a Rage 128 Xclaim VR. Feels snappier, but I haven't run any actual tests. Still no support for the video input options, which is quite upsetting. I'm going to assume ATI has ended Mac support of video capture, since we've not seen a Radeon card with capture.

No problems in the short time I've used it, though the ATI Displays app describes my card as "Unknown ATI Graphics." Odd, since I'm only using the ATI retail card, not the built-in ATI Rage IIc (which was very unstable).
A question for other users: does this enable DVD play on older Macs running X?
[OS X's DVD player can work on Rage128/Radeon equipped older Macs - but the 10.1.3 update caused many reader's DVD players to stop working - even the 3.1.1 update didn't help. (See past article here on OS X DVD player problems, which has some tips for dual monitor users that helped some, but not all cases.)-Mike]
Bryan B"

Another VR128/Beige G3 report:

(added 4/9/2002)
" Hi Mike
Great site, I just saw your news about the ATI drivers update and thought I'd share my experiences with it. Machine is a Beige MT G3 350mhz G3 (clocked to 433), 768ram, pci ati xclaim vr 128, pci USB, pci firewire, cdrw, and DVD running osX 10.1.3.

After installation and upon reboot into the finder I notice that I now have all of my resolutions back on my Sony 17" HMD-A200 flatscreen crt monitor. I also have the selection of 800by600 60Hz simulscan to mirror on a tv and monitor and also have back the 800by600 60Hz and 832by624 60Hz tv output back. Finally since osX beta I can use my tv as a viewing platform for my digital movies/games/other software. Full screen output to my Sony VVega 27" flatscreen tv via svideo looks great playing back a dv video fullscreen in itunes and in final cut pro 3.

Itunes also feels faster on the visualizations, compared to about 6 fps full screen I now get over 10 fps full screen with my monitor set to 1024by768 @ 85Hz. Playing mpg movies on osX has always resulted in 30fps movies playing at roughly 2-5 fps and probably 20fps at fullscreen, but since I have installed the quicktime6 beta and upgraded to the new ati drivers I now get 30 fps playing a 30fps movie in normal/double/and fullscreen mode.

I have yet to try quake3 or unreal tourny after the update, but will (even though this old mac runs osX games pretty sparsely.) Only other thing I wish ati would update is the tv tuner xlcaim video player which has been hardly updated in the almost three years I have owned this card, a osX app to watch tv on would be great. Oh well I can wish cant I:) Keep up the good work.
Sandy "


Radeon AGP/G4 400 AGP Systems:

(added 4/11/2002)
" I DL'ed these drivers last night. I ran Red Faction in 2x FSAA @800x600x32 and it ran/looked great!

Also did a time demo in Q3A and I got nearly the same FPS that I always get. (105-109fps time demo with my regular playing settings, got 106.4 last night)
Overall I love these drivers
BTW: This was in OSX 10.1.3, have not tried them in OS9 yet.
Machine Specs: 550MHz G4 7410 (DA chip) in Gigibit G4 with OEM Radeon, 480MB RAM, few HD's.
Stuka" "

(added 4/10/2002)
" Dual 500mhz G4
OEM Radeon AGP
Retal Radeon PCI
OS X 10.1.3

Using a standardized framerate test in Warbirds III (OS X version), I went from (average/peak) 29/32 fps to 45/54 fps! Almost a 100% improvement!

The Warbirds folks are saying that the improvement is from ATI finally enabling hardware ŇT&LÓ (Texture and Lighting?).
-Ken"

(added 4/10/2002)
" I got a G4 450/AGP with a Radeon AGP retail on OSX 5Q110. I must say the DVD De-interlacing feature is really stunning, It does produce some artifacts sometime, but you really need to put your nose on the screen to catch them. Now for the speed, I haven't do real technical test, but the first thing I notice is the windows drag; no more jerk, it's perfect. Now the picture follow the frame when you're dragging the DVD Player window. Dragging a quicktime movie window while playing is more smooth no sound jerk, but still not perfect.

A other interesting thing, before the upgrade every time a program changed the resolution i have got a system.log message like this:
Apr 4 04:06:46 cyberia mach_kernel: .Display_Rage128: user ranges num:1 start:9c008000 size:3d2c80
Apr 4 04:06:46 cyberia mach_kernel: .Display_Rage128: using (1152x870@75Hz,32 bpp)

Now there is what i got
Apr 10 00:44:53 cyberia mach_kernel: .Display_RADEON: user ranges num:1 start:9c008000 size:3d2c80
Apr 10 00:44:53 cyberia mach_kernel: .Display_RADEON: using (1152x870@75Hz,32 bpp)

This is a really huge update, but still need little work. ATI should [have] made a preferences panes with its Ati Display program. Something should be really great is to Apple to include the de-interlace feature directly in the DVD Player and don't have to restart the DVD Player every time you need to toggle on (I'm sick to be forced to watch those FBI warning every time). And the last thing that i'm really not sure who are to blame is every Carbon OpenGL applications seems to crash shortly, I really don't know where it came from, but I don't got this problem from the start, and reinstalling OSX wasn't the answer.
Etienne G. "

(added 4/10/2002)
" Hi Mike,
After a long limbo, I finally installed the ATI update.
System Specs:
G4-450 1GB Ram
OS 9.2.2
2 Radeon Mac vga cards (AGP and PCI both retail) with dual 15" Apple LCD monitor
update went fine, a long wait after restart, little scared but it worked. I did not notice anything on performance issues.

ATI rom extender always delays the system boot-up. So I always disable this extension (I don't know what it does?). [It's basically a firmware patch/update for the retail cards - fixes some issues according to past reader reports - when copied to OS X past owners noted it solved IE issues for instance. See previous Video page articles here on ATI driver updates. -Mike] After disabling startup speeds up almost 4X. With the old drivers and Rom extender extension off, I used my systems over 6 months with no problem.
Bahadir "

Radeon AGP/Dual G4/533:

(added 4/9/2002)
" mike,
the mouse-driven flickering is finally gone in IE! haven't noticed any other changes, except that i had to re-correct the image position on my samsung monitor (the earlier drivers had shifted it slightly to the right.) i'm real happy to be flicker-free, FINALLY.

RADEON mac edition
g4 dp 533
os X 10.1.3
best,
tl
p.s. the install includes an app that displays monitor and video card info, and allows turning on/off 'adaptive de-interlacing', which 'improves display quality of interlaced dvd content'. "

(Just some reminders: Adaptive deinterlacing for DVD's was in a previous update. The ATI control panel only works with retail cards, not OEM versions. The Jan 2002 update was reported to fix the IE flickering as noted in the past article on those driver here on the Video topics page, Graphics card section.)

Radeon AGP/G4 400 AGP:

(added 4/9/2002)
" Well I downloaded and installed the new drivers this evening and removed it three re-starts later. I got several freezes of the desktop in the finder and "bad", incomplete refreshes. G4/400 [AGP], Ati Radeon [AGP] retail, OS 9.2.2.
Best wishes
Reiner "

Radeon AGP/G4 400 AGP:

(added 4/9/2002)
" Great FSAA on my retail Radeon Mac Edition (Original) with 32MB of VRAM. Look at http://lokasdesign.netfirms.com/driver/ for before and after FSAA shots. Though the 4xFSAA is great, I noticed quite a drop in FPS.
[he later sent system details]
Here it is:
Mac OS X 10.1.3 (5Q110)
512MB of RAM
400MHz PowerPC G4/AGP
AGP Radeon Mac Edition

Not yet tested the adaptive de-interlacing for DVDs, but I can only assume it works. :)
Adam F.
GameSCOUTER Multiplay Service
Administrator "


Other Graphics Card Related Articles: See the Video topics page for articles/reviews of Mac Graphics cards, driver feedback reports and more.

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