|Feedback on ATI October 2002 Driver Update|
(Updated 10/29/2002 for Oct 29th Driver Update Links)
Reports Last Updated: 10/31/2002, 1:45 PM Eastern Time
Do Not Install Oct. 2002 drivers in 10.2.3:
Over the last month I've had several problem reports from (mostly Beige G3) readers that installed the Oct. 29th ATI driver update in 10.2.3. (The suggestion I had was to reinstall 10.2.3 update from the download 10.2.3 installer, which seems to be a general fix.) Since the Oct. 29th update was posted before 10.2.3 was released, I'd not install it over 10.2.3. Since 10.2.3 was noted to have OpenGL changes, I never considered installing the Oct. 29th drivers. (Even though in the past ATI's X driver updates would not install in OS X versions later than when they were posted.) Just posting this as a reminder and a note for anyone that did install them in 10.2.3 to try re-applying the 10.2.3 update.
Oct 29th ATI Driver Update (to address issues with prev. Oct. Update): (from the Oct 29th main news page - email from Bruno of ATI)
New release of October software update posted today (October 29-2002).
(that page notes Oct 29th date and links to this
Oct 2002 Driver update D/L page which should have the revised installer/files.- Mike)
This release addresses the known issues mentioned in your reader reports with RADEON 7000 and Warcraft 3, Maya, Lightwave and the Sachs Marine Aquarium screensaver (Mac OS X 10.2.x issues). It also addresses the previous inability to disable the ATI Config Menu icon in OS 9 after installing the new Version 3 ATI Displays and a small number of other issues we managed to squeeze in fixes for.
Anyone running Mac OS X 10.1.3-10.1.5 would not need to reinstall, but should use this new update for any installed instances of OS 9 or upgrading to 10.2.x in the future.
Please read the included readme file, which may also be found on our download page.
Note - Later in the day the D/L page linked to 4 ATI tech notes on what the Oct. 29th driver update fixes (bugs present in the previous Oct 2002 update)
(previous page info follows)
This page has reader reports on the ATI October 2002 driver update for OS X 10.1.3-10.2.1 and OS 9.x. (See the update's Readme File before installing and note that there's verified Radeon 7000 card issues with Warcraft III and this update, and perhaps other apps/screensavers also with the 7000 card.)
Some of the emails I've gotten on the update do have some positives though - such as a PCI Radeon owner noting it solved the problem he had with the OS X DVD Player. And AGP Radeon card owners in general noted better performance with the update.
Reader Reports: (most recent first)
Do Not Install the Oct. 2002 drivers in 10.2.3: See Top of page above for why and a tip on fixing problems if you did.
I welcome other reports on the Oct 29th driver update (pros or cons). (Please include your graphics card and system/OS details)
Note - also send problem reports to ATI even though you may only get an auto-reply back - or let me know if it's ok to forward your email to my ATI contacts.
This reader noted the latest update fixed an issue he had with
a G4 upgraded beige g3 and ATI's extensions. (I've seen some similar
reports in the CPU upgrades database in the past)
I'm very excited, because for me this upgrade works great! After
installing an OWC 500Mhz ZIF earlier this week in my beige G3
desktop, OS 9.2.2 wouldn't boot UNLESS I disabled the ATI Graphics
Accelerator (it would boot until the startup partition and the trash
were visible, and then it stopped - nothing happening anymore).
Reinstalling the first October Update didn't help. I mailed OWC and
ATI. In their first reaction, both sent autoreplys with standard
workarounds, not specific to my problem. ATI Europe wasn't even aware
of the existence of a Radeon 7000 Mac (at least in this reply). I was
just preparing for a long troubleshooting process, and also I was
about to ask you about a (more or less) similar report in your
database by Niall Julian on 3/12/2002, hoping he found a solution.
But suddenly, I can enjoy my upgraded Mac! I'll check OS 10.2 later,
hope it's better now I have doubled my speed... I'll have to do a lot
of work in 9.2.2 first (which was annoying slow without the graphics
Note: I'm puzzled why ATI named this update EXACTLY the same as the other.
Thanks for keeping up your great site!
Beige G3 desktop (rev. A)
OWC 500Mhz ZIF
Radeon 7000 Mac
Mac OS 9.2.2
Mac OS 10.2 (not tried after installing the ZIF)
Wacom ADB tablet
I refer to the latest update as Oct 29th since that is when it was publicly posted (and the released date on Burno's link above). Burno of ATI said the readme is dated Oct 18th, but the installer is dated Oct 23rd. However since it was only available starting Oct 29th and the installer is titled the same as the earlier release, I'm calling it "Oct. 29th" to distinguish it from the earlier Oct. update.
Oct. ATI update
Radeon 32mb DDR PCI
BW Mac with XLR8 G4 500
I am not an "everyday-user" of lightwave, but i have common OGL display
errors in the modeler app. Every shaded/textured mode is not updated
correctly... Objects turn semi transparent after a tool change/action, and u
have to move the viewport to get a proper refresh... sometimes a little
quadratic artifact is displayed in a viewport.
Though everything seems much faster since my last use (in spring/summer).
Layout: Only tested some sample scenes. The shaded texturemodes seems to
work correctly (NO errors like the modeler) Could not dig any deeper at the
moment. Have mercy;-)
This was in reply to a prev. OS 9/LW report which
mentioned a layout texture issue (linked picture attached, highly compressed jpeg).
I have an ati8500 mac edition running on a 533mhz and a 128nexus for a
second monitor, Maya 4.5, OS 10.2.1
So i did/follow all the steps to get maya running without any problems,
or at least i think i did, i got the upgrade Oct29 and did a repair
perm., and i notice that if i add a polygon and only polygon model to a
scene (ie. sphere) with some texture, maya will crash the whole system
after doing some zoom in really close to the model, i can move the
mouse but thats about it, this is similar to problem i had back when
os10.1.9 (10.1.9?? 10.1.5 was the last pre10.2 version-Mike), where the monitor res have to be change because 1600x1200
wouldn't work, that solution is not working now either, tried few
monitor resolutions and same thing, system wont respond just the mouse,
no force quit either.
I wrote to my ATI contacts about this.
The graphics update from the 29th was intended to repair an issue with
Maya. This issue causes a kernel panic when trying to quit Maya 4.5
with a Radeon 7000 installed (I've read similar reports for other cards
elsewhere). Maya 3.5.1 PLE would cause a kernel panic when tumbling
the view. The problem with 4.5 has been fixed, however, a new one has
cropped up. Whereas the previous drivers would cause a kernel panic
when trying to quit, the new drivers cause the program to cause a
kernel panic when using hardware texturing and modifying any settings
I have also contacted Alias/wavefront about this problem, although they
seem less willing to make changes as my post on their support boards
was deleted a day after I wrote it. I am very impressed with the speed
at which ATI attempted to solve this problem... its very unusual (ask
anybody with an SiiG ATA 133 card that keeps the computer from deep
sleep) that a company will make such efforts so rapidly after the
release of a new set of drivers.
I also sent this report to ATI for investigation.
I have a ATI mac edition 7000. Using 10.2.1. This update fixed an
issue with screen effects for me. Some the texture's and/or displays
had not looked like they did before Oct 19 updater. Especially, the
"Old Glory" screen effect. Looks alot better now. And a rare screen
corruption issue. I had tried to reinstall the July 2002 updater but,
said I already had the files I needed.
I am happy with this update so far.
Only good things to say. The original Oct02 update seemed to be
associated with OSX instability - 2/3 kernel panics since install.
After the updated update there have been none. Beige DT with G4 update
and Radeon 7000. OSX10.2.1, 768 meg ram.
This is my configuration
G4 400( at 500) 704 MB ram
flashed Powercolor Radeon 8500(275/275) 64 MB DDR
20 and 40 GB Harddisk
Mac OSX 10.2.1 (I dont want to boot in Mac OS 9)
My only problem is: I am not able to switch to 16:9 for TV output
in 10.1.5 this was never a problem
I can't select 16:9 in ATI Display Utilities
all formats 4:3 and 16:9 are greyed out
I deleted the preferences files but there is no change
Any thing other works great
I thought this driver will fix my problem but nothing no chance
Now I able to create DivX Movies on my MAC
But I cant watch them in 16:9 on my widescreenTV
The quality of playback on TV in 10.2 is better then in 10.1.5
If anyone else sees this problem let me know. (Regardless of the fact you may get an auto-reply, also remember to send problem reports to ATI as well.)
I don't now if you remember my problem, with a formac Gallery and a radeon 700
pci (my computer : g4 450 agp).
Just to tell you that the last update don't change anything for me : monitor
preference panel quit when i launch it, because of an displaydescriptionError ...
Another Formac LCD owner reported the same thing (Oct 29th update didn't help).
ATI is reportedly looking into this.
After the latest ATI update, I could no longer boot into OS 10. I updated
10.2.1, and my 10.1.5 and OS 9.2.2 installs. (three hard drives)
I also did the Stuffit update, but i can't believe that's the problem.
Here's what I see.
OS 10.2.1 starts with the apple screen, and then hangs with a small black
bar over the apple on the AGP monitor. OS 10.1.5 hangs at the checking
disks screen with a kernal panic. OS 9 has no trouble.
I upgraded my 10.1.5 disk to 10.2, then 10.2.1, and it is working.
This is the first major trouble I've had with OS 10. I repaired and
checked the disks, but nothing brought 10 back until the upgrade install.
My main 10.2.1 is still unbootable, but I can limp along with this
Hopefully, I can get my main 10 disk repaired.
(I wrote asking what ATI card, system detail, etc. and he replied)
Sorry I forgot to include that information. I was thrashed last night.
G4 400 GigE
1GB ram, 20, 40 80 GB hard drives
ATI Rage 128 AGP, ATI Radeon Mac Edition PCI
After troubleshooting all last night and now in the evening, I found the
culprit. A few days ago, I got tired of seeing the OS 10.2.1 warning from
the IOKITUSBREADER.kext (for my Lexar GS-UFD-20SA-TP card reader) so I
clicked "Repair". in the past, I would click "Don't use" or "Use".
Everything seemed fine then, but now I recall seeing an icon flash by
just before the gray Apple appears on bootup. I think it looked like the
startup disk icon with the question mark.
Anyway, things worked until the other day, when I installed the ATI
update and other stuff.
What put me on to the USB kext was after I updated OS 10.1.5, I got the
same warning again. I clicked "Don't use", and then checked the
System/Extensions directory. My old Jaguar had the extension, my new Jag
didn't. I trashed the kext and the old Jag booted.
Moral of the story:
Beware of kexts needing repair.
Hi, I just did the Oct. 29 ATI update on my G4 400 AGP with the built
in video, OS X.2 (up to date). The reports on versiontracker said it
should work on my system so I tried and it installed ok. When I
restarted it went through startup ok, but when the desktop should show
up it just shows the blue backgroung screen (it hasn't loaded the
backgroung picture). The mouse cursor is visible and moves around, but
nothing else is on the screen. I was able to connect to the file
from my powerbook so I know the OS is working in there somewhere in
there. I will work on fixing the problem when I get home from work.
(he later wrote)
I repaired the disk and permissions several times and even ran disk
warrior. It didn't seem to help anything. I even removed all the
stuff installed by the ATI update and replaced it with the older files
from another partition. Nothing has fixed the problem so I am not sure
if the update is the problem, or if installing it just triggered
another problem. I may just need to start over with a new system
install if I can't fix the problem.
BTW, it is the Rage 128 card.
Great site. I love all the information that you provide.
Well I have just installed this update on my Ti 800mhz G4 Powerbook. All
seems perfectly fine and dandy. This update even sees my 7500 card in the
ATi displays, which I never remember it doing before. Also this is the same
in OS 9 but, you get the memory usage selection as well.
I have had no boot up problems or any weird glitches as of yet and I also
have not played any games with it yet. I will try Quake III later once I
get the chance to see if it gets any faster.. Also I am running 10.2.1 and
OS 9.2.2 with the latest updates you can have at this point.
I hope this helps some...
On my iBook 700 12.1" Combo with the "Radeon" 16MB graphics card,
SereneScreen's Marine Aquarium is still screwed up... The front
lighting (in the screen saver there is an option to adjust the back
light and the front light separately) has no effect, so it is still
(first broke with the first Oct. update) ugly...
B&W with owc g4 550 clocked at 600
sonnet ata 100 card
40 & 20 gig hard drives ata
1 gig ram
radion 7000, orion rage(128)
os 9.2.2 10.2
the new update seems to work fine, even diablo ii seems to have no
issues on millions of colors and open gl, i even get my second monitor
back after shut down, may have been 10.2 update.
aquarium issues seem to work fine, rebooted and ran perfect... so far
Mike, I have a G4 450 AGP With Powerlogic G4 1GH cpu. New Radon 8500. After
latest ATI Oct.29 upgrade, My Maxtor 40 gb takes 2 minutes and 15 seconds to
cold boot. I have moved back to the board terminal where it boots in 1
minute 13 seconds. (Board terminal?-Mike) Powerlogic is no help because the L3 cache is not active
until boot. Great site, Thanks.
Strange... no other reports like this so far. I asked if he had added ram
recently which also increases cold boot time (ram test).
Noted your posting about the OCT 29 ATI upgrade.
I noticed that under 9.2.2 that this "new" upgrade has broken OPEN GL
in Lightwave 6.5 and 7.5 so that whenever you view motion paths in
Layout (user is in OBJECT mode), the texture on objects vanishes into a
tiny badly drawn object in the upper left hand layout window.
(Note - Bruno F. of ATI (marketing or QA guy I think) said that
there's no OS 9 OpenGL changes in the Oct. 29th update, compared
to the original Oct. update I assume. So not sure why this happened
if it was OK with the first Oct. 2002 update-Mike)
Setting Layouts' mode to CAMERA will make the motion path vanish, at
which then the texture appears on the object as it should.
This problem does not occur under 10.2.1 or new OS builds I cannot
comment further on.
I have a picture if you would like me to send that shows the problem in
(I wrote Kurt to ask for more info such as what ATI graphics card he was using)
ATI Radeon 8500 AGP for the MAC, system 9.2.2, QT 5.0.2,
Power Mac G4 450 MP. No other graphics board installed. Open GL
1.2.4. Screen rez was 1200 by 1024.
Lightwave was the only application running when I noted the failures.
Picture is attached.
One reader that had previously noted a Maya 4.5 problem (below) in OS X
with the first Oct 2002 update posted in the forums that the Oct. 29th update solved that problem. He's using OS X 10.2.1 however, not OS 9.
Although I thought there was a comment about permissions being fixed for this update, this
Radeon 7000 owner noted a problem:
I just wanted to let you know the problem I had with the latest ATi
update (Oct. 29, 2002)
Power Macintosh G3 Minitower
OWC Mercury G4/533
768 MB OWC RAM
OrangeMicro USB 2/Firewire PCI card
ATi Radeon 7000 PCI card
IDE bus 0: IBM 120GXP 40 GB
IDE bus 1: LG GCC-4120C DVD-ROM/CD-RW (and)
Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 15 GB
Mac OS 10.2.1
(almost everything was chosen using your site's resources! unbeatable!)
For the record, this machine has been the least problematic Mac I've
encountered (I worked for a Apple Authorized Service Center this
summer, I've seen some ugly situations). In fact, I have a friend who's
stock G4/733 has more issues than this machine.
I went to download this update right away, since WarCraft III bit the
bag when it came to the October update. The installer ran just fine,
and everything looked in the clear. Why should I doubt that this would
work, as the last three updates have been cake? I signed off the
machine and pushed "Restart" at the loginwindow. I waited the usual
minute for the monitor to come on (as the Beige G3s don't like to show
the boot image on the Radeons...video only after we get the "Welcome to
OS X" window), and.........nothing.
I got annoyed and began to fuss with all the PRAM resets and such. No
luck. It booted into OS 9 just fine. I couldn't see a problem.
Regardless of the fashion I wished to enter OS X, the machine just
wouldn't have it.
I removed the Radeon...no progress. The only difference was that,
because it was on-board video, it showed the grey Apple...but no "spiny
thing" that would normally accompany a successful boot beyond the ROM.
I pulled the other PCI cards to no avail.
I finally resigned myself to reinstalling the OS (my home directories
and other data files are on a separate partition...no problem with
losing any data). I then requested the help of my friend who owns the
aforementioned G4/733. We threw my drive in the G4 and ran the 10.2
Install CD. The first thing I did was run Disk Utility. Lo and behold,
the permissions for all of the ATi kexts were wrong. (gasp!) Once they
were fixed, I decided to forgo the OS install and just pop the drive
back in the Beige G4. Crossing of the fingers ensured that it booted
properly. Everything was intact, and everything seems to be working
So, moral of this story is to Repair Privileges on your boot disk after
every OS component installation. This would have likely saved a
Again, thanks for the site!
I've commented several times in the news over the last few months that
after installing 10.2 and running repair permissions showing a lot of corrections,
I routinely run it after any OS X update. (Including IE 5.2.x).
One of the readers that reported issues with the prev. driver update and
his Formac LCD wrote the update didn't solve that problem:
Hello again Mike,
I wrote earlier about some sort of bizarre incompatibility between the
October ATI drivers and the Formac Gallery 1740. It seems that the new
update has not fixed the problem as of yet. This time I learned my
lesson and made sure to backup using Carbon Copy Cloner before
installing. And sure enough, after installing the newest update, the
Monitors preference pane crashed as before.
This time I tried hooking up another display (an old graphite Apple
Studio Display 15 TFT screen) and it worked flawlessly. I was able to
change resolutions and bit depth without crashing. It is puzzling since
the Formac doesn't require any drivers to run, so this issue could be
specific to my Radeon AGP and Formac Gallery combo. It runs just fine
using the drivers that come with Jaguar... so all fingers point to the
Note - reports listed below were before the Oct 29th 2002 revised installer was released which should address the Radeon 7000 issues, 3D apps problems with Radeon to Radeon 8500 series cards and TV out in OS X problems noted with the original Oct. 2002 driver updates. (See above ATI page links for specific notes on past problems.)
Reports from the first Oct.2002 Driver Update: (before Oct 29th revised updater)
i noticed inverted colors on a G3 BW with Radeon 7000 and the shareware
I couldn't fix the inverted colors after several restarts, but
switching the ColorSync-Profile for a second fixes the problem.
I asked what OS version he was running and he said OS 9.2.2. (There's definitely Radeon 7000
driver issues with the Oct. 2002 update, at least in OS X.)
I have problem with WC3 too after installing the ATI update. WC3 v1.03
was running fine on my TiBook 550 ( Fall 2001) [Radeon Mobility 16MB chip-Mike] but since the ATI update. There are problems with some of the characters and with the
I asked what OS version he was using (please include details like that in reports) - he later said 10.2.1. Maybe not only the 7000 radeon has problems with the Oct 2002 drivers.
Just wanted to let you know that I have also seen the inverted colors
on OS 9.2.2. After launching the game "Realmz" the colors become
inverted and it does require me to switch the color sync profile to fix
I have also experienced screen corruption when switching from full
screen to windowed mode in UT and Unreal. I did not get this in the
last driver update. I have a RADEON 8500 in a PowerMac G4/400 (upgraded
processor to 550) with 576megs of RAM.
I asked Edward if the Oct 29th update helped with this problem and he said no.
okay the machine
B&W g4 600mhz (owc 550 g4 ziff running at 600)
Pioneer dvr 104 internal
sonnet ata 100 with current firmware
1 gig ram
40 gig and 20 gig hd, 20 3 partitions, os 10.2, 10.1.5(bkup), os 9.2.2
radeon 7000(retail), rage orion (rage128 chip based), 21" nec, 15" pallet monitor
did the ati october upate, no apparent problems noted, went to the
screen savers, as all the horror seems to start there, most seemed
normal... except the marine aquarium, on the orion card everything was
normal, on the radion, a very cast blue, and fades to total black, also
had some pixeled issues, wow that sucks
(the Oct 2002 driver update has some 7000 Radeon bugs - noted
by the image problem in Warcraft III reported early on. I can't remember
now if the WCIII and other issues were reported in OS 9 as well as
OS X however. Check past reports here and in the forum links below.-Mike)
checked photoshop etc, everything seemed pretty normal, but if one
thing is bad so is something els, so i downloaded the 10.2 update from
app, and reinstalled onto the system.... hoping since it had new video
( ati specific) drivers it would over write the october update, and it
did, back to normal.. very bad update, the video card people just blame
apple for the problems...? my dvd playback is fine and everything is
working, including the aquarium, easiest way back i have
found.....short of complete reinstall.....
only thing wrong was wake up from deep sleep radion would be corrupt and
just show garbage, i can live with that over bad color and screen
The fix for the Radeon PCI/corrupted video on wake from sleep was
noted again here in last month's news page.
("Tip for PCI Radeon Card Corrupted Display After Wake from Sleep in OS X 10.2"
I.E. Copy latest OS 9 ATI ROM Xtender file to OS X - but that file is normally installed by ATI OS X driver updates.)
I installed the update a few days ago, both in Mac OS 10.2.1 and 9.2.2
(I don't use the latter regularily) and it works allright. I've got a
Gigabyte Maya AP64D-H ATi RADEON 8500-based card with 64MB DDR. I
haven't noticed any performance difference.
Your site rocks! Keep up the good work.
One thing I noticed after applying the October ATI update was that the
fan on my powerbook seemed to kick on with almost no provocation. After
removing all the usual suspects (suspect fonts, prefpanes, startup
items; all these have been known to get the fan working - Retrorun is a
guaranteed fan starter) I was left with only the ATI update as the
culprit. I retrieved the 10.2 ATI drivers from the Install CD with
Pacifist, repaired permissions with Disk Utility, and now my fan again
runs very infrequently.
I've not installed the Oct 2002 ATI update on my PB G4/800 DVI (Radeon 7500 mobility) but the fan still runs at high speeds sometimes, but not often except when running 3D games (which kicks the fan on high pretty quickly as noted in my PB G4/800 review). Maybe the new drivers better enable Quartz Extreme and therefore exercise the chip more?
After using the new ATI update for a few weeks now I have noticed some
issues that I have not seen before.
Using a shareware game named Realmz caused all my monitor colors to
alternate...I thought at first that the monitor colors had been switched to
256 color, but it seems that all the colors changed more than just inverted,
so what was Blue was then Red, what was Grey was yellow and so on. It was
very disconcerting. several reboots did nothing to fix the problem. Finally
I rebooted with Extensions off in OS9.2.2 and all seemed well.
I checked my Preferences and listed by date modified and noticed one ATI
preference had changed at the time of when I tried to play the Realmz game
it was ATI Theater Preferences. This is similar to a previous problem I once
had in the past when I first got the Radeon 7000. A problem with this ATI
Theater file. Deletion of this file seemed to be the cure. Since this has
been the 2nd time I've had a problem with this ATI Theater pref I wonder if
there are some ATI extensions I can keep and some I can get rid off?
Also I have noticed I have had some video artifacts in some 3D games (MOH,
RtCW, Diablo2...) but am not sure if they are due to the ATI update or other
thanks, Luke R.
I know since day one of the Oct. 2002 update that WCIII major image quality issues
were reported by Radeon 7000 owners but I was thinking that was a OS X driver issue (to be fixed in the next update I was told some time back after reporting the problem to ATI.)
I askd Luke if he's referring to the Theatre mode extension installed by Apple (I've seen that ext. even on new macs in the past). I don't think it's really necessary to have enabled. (As I remember it was to affect brightness, etc when playing DVDs/Movies - not a must have extension.)
"I have had no problems with the Oct 2002 ATI Update on a G4/400 (AGP)
running Mac OS X 10.2.1. Unfortunately it does not fix a longstanding
bug that most people who are experiencing - attribute to some
interaction with the Rage cards in these and similar machines. The bug
manifests itself mainly in the screensaver - selecting certain stock
(i.e. installed BY OS X 10.2.1 installer) screensavers will IMMEDIATELY
lock up the whole machine requiring a force rebootwith the reset button
and in some case a unplug reset. very nasty bug - many claim there is
no such bug, but for the ones of use that have it (see Apple com
forums, and OS X Hints forums, and others) it is a real and VERY
annoying bug. I basically have to use the stick "Flurry" screensaver -
and while not bad - I would like a choice.
In my case I have verified to myself that the problem lies in the ATI
Rage card in the AGP slot by installing an older ATI VR 128 in a PCI
slot - all screensavers are fine. We also have an iMac 350 with Rage
card in it that exhibits the same problem. Many people have written to
Apple about the issue - but as of yet they refuse to admit their is an
issue. I had high hopes for the Oct 2002 ATI Update fixing the issue -
Mac OS X 10.2.1
(I wrote to ask which card - Rage128 I suspect - he had and
what specific screensavers were problematic per an ATI guy's
Yes I have run "repair disk permissions" several time as a matter of
fact... Also - many
on the discussion board mentioned this specifically related to Mac OS X
10.2.1, but I am pretty sure it existed in some versions of OS X prior
to 10.2.1 - although I think it is more pronounce in 10.2.1 and affects
a larger number of people.
(His attachments noted a Rage128 Pro AGP card)
I don't have that problem here with the Oct 2002 drivers on an OS X 10.1.5 Dual G4/533 system w/8500 AGP card. (Update: Over the weekend I updated my G4/533DP with 8500 AGP card to 10.2.1 - all screensavers seem OK before and after installing the Oct 2002 ATI driver update on that system. I didn't install a Rage128/Pro AGP card to see if that mattered however. If any Rage128/Rage128 Pro AGP owners see this screensaver problem - let me know.)
I recently installed the October 2002 ATI update onto my G4 800DP with
Radeon 8500 and Formac 17" LCD, running 10.2.1 and I am getting artefacts on
the desktop - usually over the dock icons. I am having problems in Warcraft
III as well - after a while I get a trail from any moving characters in the
games - the demo for Bugdom 2 also has major problems - the whole screen
goes a funky green/red colour - you can still play and see what is going on
but the graphics are messed up quite badly - even after quitting this game
the screen stays the same - the desktop is visible and usable but messed up
with the green and red graphics with dots/artefacts everywhere. It reminds
me of what happens when I overclock the videocard in my PC a little too
I have had this problem once before with one of the ATI updates (not the
last one but the one before). Any idea what it could be?
(Gavin later noted this was a flashed PC model (126 firmware). Not all flashed
PC models have problems, but some have, sometimes due to core/clock speeds, other times for unknown reasons. That may or may not be a factor. You can reduce the core/ram clock speeds with firmware mod utilities, but that may or may not help. Not sure why the driver update would have affected this... but I've seen odd image quirks, OpenGL/3D/Rave problems, etc. with a flashed 128MB 8500 card earlier this year.-Mike)"
There's been some threads in the forums video card section
that some Formac LCDs owners (and one dell) have had problems with the update.
One formac display owner however noted he didn't. ATI is looking
into this issue now (they posted that they are obtaining a Formac
display to test)
G4 350 (sawtooth), Original ATI Radeon 8500 for pc w/ v126 rom flashed.
Running OSX 10.2.1 w/ 1G Ram.
- Can't display OpenGL textures in Layout, all textures changed to black
- Keep losing backdrop & grid in Modeler (same problem also appear in
- Run the 10.2.1 update again could eliminate texture problem in Layout.
- Modeler problem unsolved.
B O N A
I added the ATI update on OS9.2.2 yesterday and have not noticed any
problems as of yet. General 2D seems to be faster, with a slight increase in
frame rate while playing in a few online 3D mac games. Photoshop 7 scrolling
in OS9 seems quicker than before. I have not had any sleep problems with
OS9, only with OSX, so in Jaguar I have been turning sleep off.
Have not tested this update in OSX10.2.1 as of yet.
hardware: BWG3 rev 2, G4/500, 1GB RAM, ATI Radeon 7000, Sonnet Tempo ATA66,
Adaptec 2930, OrangeMicro OrangeLink FW/USB, 6GB ATA33, 26GB ATA66, 45GB
ATA100, 120GB ATA100. OS9.2.2, OSX10.2.1.
Report from a flashed PC 8500 card owner:
I installed the new drivers a few days ago and since that moment
MacOS X has frozen 3 times. The first two were (I think ?) related to
MT-NewsWatcher X 3.3b1 : the interface (but not the mouse) froze when
I tried to access a particular newsgroup. The third happened while I
was selecting some text in TextEdit. Each time it was the same thing
: the interface suddenly doesn't respond anymore but the mouse can
move, then it is replaced by a spinning beach ball, then the arrow
comes back, and so on until I reboot.
Looking at system.log, I can see :
mach_kernel: IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
last message repeated xxx times
WindowServer: CGXOrderMenuBarWindow: error ordering
menuBarWindow forward 268451843
mach_kernel: ATIRadeon::submit_buffer: Overflowed block waiting for
FIFO space. Have 5, need 6. RBBM_STATUS 0x80036100
And this is printed a number of times, especially the 4th line. xxx
is a number from 2 to 282. Each crash had the exact same error
message, with the exception of the number xxx and the number of times
the 4th line was repeated.
I re-installed the drivers from MacOS 10.2.1 using Pacifist.
PowerMac G4/400 AGP
MacOS 10.2.1 (update from 10.1.5)
ATI Radeon 8500 AGP (flashed Powercolor Evil Master II Pro) 64MB, ROM 126
There are no reports yet from pre-G3 owners running OSX yet so I
thought I'd pass on my initial results. I don't really see much
difference from the previous July release in general use in the Finder.
In Quake III 1.3.2 test 4 I am getting 50fps. I do notice that DVD
playback is not quite as smooth as it was before. This is all with
Quartz Extreme enabled and that is the only negative that I've noticed
so far. I suppose I might have higher frame rates with QE disabled but
have not tested that yet. I'll do further testing tomorrow with and
without QE and with the previous driver release.
Power Tower Pro 225
Sonnet G4 800
Radeon Mac Edition 32MB
OS X 10.2.1 via XpostFacto
PROBLEMS with MAYA 4.5 !
G4/500, ATI Radeon 32mb DDR with the ATI Okt. update:
- OpenGL texture display errors!
- U can't use any Lighting in your scene, ends up in heavy texture and color
install Jaguar update 10.2.1 !!!
(or go back to previous 10.2 original drivers)
Update - Tron later posted in the forums that the Oct. 29th update solved the problems he had with Maya 4.5 in OS X noted above. (However one OS 9 Lightwave user noted a problem with the Oct. 29th update.)
So far Mike, everything seems great under Mac OS 9.2.2.
Have an iMac DV G3/400, Rage 128, 192 MB RAM, pretty much stock
configuration since I bought it in April 2000. Only system software
upgrades have been from 9.0 to 9.0.4 when I bought it, then to 9.2.2 in
January this year. I have been updating QuickTime on a fairly regular
This weekend, I upgraded from QT 6.0 to 6.0.2. Then, I saw the ATI Radeon
retail update, and figured, what the heck, might as well hose my system
*really* good. To my surprise, the combo of QT 6.0.2 and 9.2.2, plus the
Oct 2002 ATI driver update has made my iMac G3/400 downright snappy in
This machine has always played DVD video quite well, and I noticed in the
ATI config menu the de-interlacing option is grayed out. No surprises
there. It identifies the iMac graphics as 'Powered by Unknown ATI
What truly surprised me was the difference these drivers have made in 2-D
acceleration. All the 2-D operations are *lots* quicker.
I've tried a variety of applications. None seem broken, but I have no DV
camcorder handy to check capture in iMovie. Previously saved iMovie
projects play back nicely. The only thing that seems somewhat flaky is QT
plug-in performance with IE 5.1.6. After playing a page with a QT movie,
the cursor will disappear until the next page is displayed. Then it comes
If I run into programs broken, I'll let you know. Thanks for xlr8yourmac!
Hello Mike !
First i want to tell you that i'm french so excuse me fore my english...
I read this in the reports (below):
I haven't read about people with the problem I've had since installing the update
so here goes. I have a G4/500 AGP machine with 1 gig of RAM running 10.2.1 and
9.2.2. My video card is a Radeon Mac Edition AGP running a Formac Gallery 1740
LCD screen. I've noticed that any time I've installed any updates from ATI in OSX,
after the restart my color depth is set to Thousands of colors. Even when you go to
the control panel and change it to Millions, you have to restart completely before it
changes. This time however, the October update seems to have caused havoc with
my monitor settings. Now, my display appears to be stuck in Thousands of colors,
and any attempt to open the Monitors in System Preferences causes System
Preferences to crash.
Stumped, I ran the disk utilities on the 10.2 install disc. The hard drive found no
errors, but Disk Permissions for all the ATI stuff was whacked. I fixed them and
restarted, but my problem still wasn't fixed. I was able to bring up the Monitors
preferences once (out of like 20 tries) but strangely there were no monitor
resolutions I could choose from and only Thousands (which was grayed out) was
showing. So needless to say, this update is really screwed my system up. I
haven't found any issues though with the drivers on the OS 9 side. They seem to
be okay there.
I have the same problem with my G4 450 AGP / Radeon 7000 pci / gallery formac
17"4 (LCD display).
The radeon 7000 is the only card in my mac. The october update resolve my DVD
player problem an TV out is now ok but i still have an DisplayDescriptionError that
make my monitor's preferences panel crash.
Now a day i haven't found any issues like Jay, the only think i can tell is that
problem appeared with 10.1.3 and Jaguar. The old ATI updates (like july) always
resolved that error : it's an Apple bug maybe ! I hope that the 10.2.2 apple update
will be better for my system, it's on the good way.
I see no difference after the October 2002 ATI update. I am not a not
a gamer and I won't have MicroSoft on my system for any reason
whatsoever so I did not expect any problems. However, given the
problems some people are having with this update (and every other
update, ATI or otherwise), I am not complaining. To be honest, I have
never seen any measurable difference on my system from any of these ATI
updates. Do they really do anything, or does ATI just 'touch' the files
and repost them every couple of months? (There are changes made,
sometimes to fix specific game problems or other bugs (such as the
wake from sleep corrupted video with some Radeon PCI cards for instance)
but depending on what your apps/usage is (and card used), you may not be affected by these or notice any difference in use. But clearly there are changes being made to some drivers - otherwise you'd not see the
new problems crop up like those noted from 7000 card owners running WCIII. (examples of how
bugs can crop up in revised files that were not fully tested.)-Mike)
G4 500 single processor
Radeon 8500, overclocked to 300 Mhz GPU and RAM
Unlike the software updates, overclocking my Radeon 8500 made a slight
, but noticeable improvement in scrolling smoothness and overall
smoothness when dragging windows around. It isn't much, but it is free.
I installed the new update on my iBook 700 (runing OS
X 10.2.1, with 640 MB of RAM) and have been
experencing the same problems as a lot of Radeon 7000
owners have with WC3 with strange textures and
lighting. No other noticeable changes in any other
game I have tried it in.
I've had this problem for a few weeks now and neither ATI nor Apple seem to be much help, but since forum registration has been down for a while I have been unable to post to the forum in search of a solution. I hope you may be able to help. Here's my specs:
Dual 450 G4
768 MB of RAM
Retail ATI Radeon 8500 Mac Edition installed in the AGP slot
Here's the problem and the various things I've tried. I purchased and installed an ATI Radeon 8500 Mac Edition so my system could take advantage of Quartz Extreme under 10.2. I got screen artifacts and other strange screen behavior under 10.2. This doesn't happen under 9.2. I reformatted my hard drive and reinstalled OS 10.2. During installation of the first OS 10.2 CD the screen looks fine, but when it reboots and asks for the second CD the artifacts return. If I boot into OS 9.2 and remove the 10.2 drivers and then reboot into 10.2 it fixes the artifact problem but not only does it not then take advantage of Quartz Extreme, but my screen saver (the one that comes with 10.2) runs very slow (1 fps or thereabout). I tried the recent (October 2002) ATI driver update but that didn't do anything to fix the problem.
An Apple Store employee suggested the ROM extender transfer from OS 9 to OS 10.2 thing that I've read about in the forums but that didn't work. ATI thinks it's a configuration problem even though it doesn't do it in OS 9.2 and still does it in 10.2 with a clean install and nothing else installed. ATI says they've heard of this with others out there, but they don't know what the systems have in common (funny then that they didn't bother to ask for my system config during that call). My hunch is a driver problem.
Hope you can help, thanks.
I have two 8500 retail Mac Radeons - never saw this problem with them. But I have seen similar problems with flashed PC models. If you can't test the card in another mac perhaps, I'd try to get the card replaced, even though it's odd it works fine in OS 9 and not OS X - which makes you think it's just a driver issue (or other software running in OS X).
I am getting an off-color box that follows my pointer around, in a few
programs. Strangely, it does not follow across multiple monitors
connected to the same card. It looks like a lite-grey transparent box
overlay in IE 5, but only appears when the text-insertion i-beam cursor
is visible. And only on my main display (w/menubar). It also appeared
in Age of Empires II, in some of the games cut-scenes during the
tutorials. There it looked like the box contained a
lower-color-resolution version of the screen, i.e. low color count that
was dithered and pixelated.
It seems to follow the color-calibration profile around (I regularly
calibrate my monitor). I am venturing a guess that the square
underneath the cursor is not getting color-corrected. I tried setting
my other monitor to the same profile (via the displays pane in system
preferences), and that monitor does the same thing. Looks pretty ugly,
and a big annoyance since installing the ATI update a few days ago. I
guess I could use a generic profile for now, but that is not
color-accurate for my uses. I may try a re-calibration when I get a
chance. However, this problem was nonexistent before updating the ATI
drivers (with the current profile).
MDD Dual 867, Radeon 8500 AGP, 512 MB 2100 ram, bootable 230 MB raid,
OS X 10.2.2, Gretag-macbeth Eye-One Match color calibrator
The ATI october update solved the deep sleep problem (corrupted
screen after wake-up) in my G3 desktop (overclocked 233->278Mhz) with
a Radeon 7000.
Thanks for the great site!
(The ATI ROM Xtender file is apparently the fix for this.
For those that didn't have it already installed by a prev.
ATI OS X update, manually copying it was the previously reported
fix for this problem (noted again last month in the main site
news page from some Radeon PCI/10.2 owners.)
Here's my setup:
Yosemite G3 B/W 400 MHz, PCI RADEON (original, NOT 7000)
OS X 10.2.1
Quartz Extreme Hack enabled.
I have not read this on the reports, but from my testing, the QuickTime artifacts
ARE GONE!!! I'm not sure if it was the ATI October Drivers, or the newly
released QuickTime 6.0.2, but after I installed both, I started playing
QuickTime movies, and there ARE NO MORE ARTIFACTS!!!
Quartz Extreme on PCI seems to be working fine!!!
I have not tried DVD playback yet...I'll try that tonight.
Congrats on your excellent site!!
I haven't read about people with the problem I've had since installing
the update so here goes. I have a G4/500 AGP machine with 1 gig of RAM
running 10.2.1 and 9.2.2. My video card is a Radeon Mac Edition AGP
running a Formac Gallery 1740 LCD screen. I've noticed that any time
I've installed any updates from ATI in OSX, after the restart my color
depth is set to Thousands of colors. Even when you go to the control
panel and change it to Millions, you have to restart completely before
it changes. This time however, the October update seems to have caused
havoc with my monitor settings. Now, my display appears to be stuck in
Thousands of colors, and any attempt to open the Monitors in System
Preferences causes System Preferences to crash.
Stumped, I ran the disk utilities on the 10.2 install disc. The hard
drive found no errors, but Disk Permissions for all the ATI stuff was
whacked. I fixed them and restarted, but my problem still wasn't fixed.
I was able to bring up the Monitors preferences once (out of like 20
tries) but strangely there were no monitor resolutions I could choose
from and only Thousands (which was grayed out) was showing. So needless
to say, this update is really screwed my system up. I haven't found any
issues though with the drivers on the OS 9 side. They seem to be okay
Got an ibook 700 with radeon and I experienced the same problems with warcraft 3 after upgrading. Fortunately I had backuped my old drivers.
However, I should say that what is the most annoying is that this upgrade was recommended by blizzard tech support themselves, because of another display problem I was experiencing with W 3 1.03
Have you any reports of people using the Oct 2002 ATI driver update with older
Apple hardware? The supported hardware README lists the Xclaim VR and 3D as
compatible under OS9 (the cards have the RAGE II/Pro chips).
I've installed the update on my venerable Wallstreet 266 which came with the
LT version of the RAGE Pro chip. Par for the course, ATI's installer seems to
just blindly install all the extensions over OS 9.2.2's versions, plus ones
for hardware I don't have.
The relevant new extensions for this hardware are ...
ATI Graphics Accelerator 5.6.5
ATI Resource Manager 3.1.4
ATI ROM Xtender 1.1.3
ATI Video Accelerator 4.8.7
I don't know if the ROM Xtender is needed for the Wallstreets
(See the FAQ's Video cards section for a list of pre-OS X
ATI extensions and what each is for. The ROM Xtender is a
firmware patch basically for retail cards. -Mike)
I don't use the graphics hardware for much, but MacMAME seems to see and use
the video chip just fine. I've experienced one video glitch so far, but that
was with the ATI Menu config Control Panel loaded, and I cannot say for sure
that the update was to blame.
I really wish ATI would get together with Apple and make their updater
autodetect built-in hardware better. But until then, consider this a successful
data point for the older RAGE II/Pro chips.
I too wish the installer would not install unnecessary extensions although
I believe they are 'smart loading' and those not needed are not loaded. Also the ATI Control Panel is only for use with retail cards, but resolution control is
done via the standard monitors control panel, so the
ATI CP isn't really essential.
Reports from Oct 18th and earlier follow)
I have a 450MHz Beige G3 with a PCI Radeon card (the original one, not the 7000 model). After I
installed Jaguar the DVD player would not quit correctly, it just hung the
entire system (mouse pointer froze too). This happened in both 10.2 and
10.2.1. Anyway, the October 2002 ATI drivers seem to have fixed this, so
I haven't really tested it other than that, but the Bugdom 2 demo works
with no problems.
I've never seen this problem mentioned anywhere else, so it may be somehow
specific to my machine.
I have had other reports like this in the past with Jaguar and PCI radeon's (DVD player problem either when starting or quitting the app.)
Glad to hear that's fixed.
Mike- I just installed the latest ATI up date for my second monitor Radeon
7000 and my MarineAquarium Screen Saver won't work on that monitor now.
Still fine on stock Nvidia 4MX.
G4 1GHZDP/ MacOS 10.2.1/ QT6 /1GHZ MB ram/ 320GBs/Canon
XK1/SonyDVMC-DA1/NVIDIA 4MX/Radion 7000
(he later wrote)
- as a followup to my earlier report today about Marine Aquarium Screen
Saver not owrking with my second Radion 7000 monitor, I downloaded and
re-installed the 10.2.1 OSX update and it cured the problem...I presume it
contained older ATI drivers.
I have a G4 500 Sawtooth with a Radeon 8500 running OSX 10.2.1 with
Warcraft 1.03. I experienced no glitches after applying the new Oct
2002 drivers, in fact, I had slightly improved performance, mostly in
the zooming feature.
Well, I installed the Oct 2002 update on my G4 500, MacRadeon 32MB, 1.5
GB RAM, OS X.2.1 (6D52)
It appears speed has improved. But Oh Joy! I have a shadow on my
cursor! Yes! I was envious of my wife's FP iMac and her fancy shadow on
her cursor- now I'm just as cool.
Seriously though, so far it appears to be a very useful update, with
noticeable improvement in the GUI on X.2.
A retired teacher I know told me that his Xclaim VR 128 now synchronizes the sound correctly with the video in this version under Mac OS 9.2.2. The previous versions never works correctly for him. Furthermore, the video controls are different from the previous versions. He has not tried the video out and the video capture yet. He has not installed it on Mac OS X.
All this is alluded to in the Read Me. The changes could have been described better.
He has a G4 500MHz AGP.
Thanks as always for your stupendous site! Just installed the October Ati
update on my G4/AGP Radeon System, just a couple of noticable differences.
The famous 3D cursor of Jaguar has finally arrived; for some reason it did
not display with a drop shadow under the stock Apple 10.2 drivers.
Of more technical interest is that the display menu no longer shows refresh
rates above 75Hz for my 17" Apple Studio Display (CRT/VGA). The displays
preference panel shows rates up to 100Hz for 1024x768, not sure why the menu
doesn't, I have the "show recommended" box checked so it's not that these
are "unrecommended." I'm back at 85Hz, my standard (it set it to 75 when I
first booted under the new drivers). Very odd.
Dual monitor setup, the other driven by the perpetually driverless Matrox RTMac.
G4/450 (AGP Graphics) 640MB RAM, OS 10.2.1,
Retail Radeon AGP (original 32MB card)
I've got a new 700mhz iBook running Jaguar. After installing the drivers with ATI's latest update. WarCraft 3 went totally nuts on me. The acceleration for the finder was fine, but WarCraft 3 totally spazed out. I tried all the resolutions and settings and it didn't work for any of them. This iBook has the latest 16mb ATI card that is offered. I figured I'd warn you and everyone else about this.
P.S. I'm sorry but I reinstalled 10.2 before I could test Quake 3 and see if that worked with the update.
This is the Radeon Mobility chip (latest ATI chip in the new iBooks). An ibook owner in the forums didn't note any problems but not sure he ran WCIII. The Radeon mobility is also in the fall 2001 PowerBook G4s.
Have had NO probems whatsoever here with the update on a B&W/450, Radeon
7000, Jag + 9.2.2, 1GB ram & 17" CRT Studio display.
ps..... I dont play games, though, but do alot of PS/ILL/web work :)
keep up the great site work, an invaluable resource to many :D
No problems after the update so far running a Radeon 8500 Mac Edition with a
dual display setup in a G4 MDD 867, 512 MB RAM, OS X 10.2.1. I tried
Warcraft 3 (1.03) and Quake 3 Arena 1.32. Warcraft 3 seems to run a bit
smoother, framerates in Quake 3 didn‘t improve...
(info from previous news pages follow)
There's a general forum thread on the update with some initial reports from various Mac owners. A PowerBook G4/800 owner noted no problems with WCIII after the update however users of PCI Radeon 7000 cards have reported image problems with Warcraft III. There's also another thread from a Yikes owner w/7000 card on the same issue with WCIII.
(Note - This is reportedly a 7000 card driver specific bug - the next update is to fix this problem. Other ATI card models should show improved performance in WCIII based on reports.)
Here's two sample reports from Radeon 7000 PCI on the WCIII issue:
Installed the update on my Beige G3 updated with G4 466 and a ATI 7000 (OS X
10.2.1). Quartz extreme NOT enabled via PCI hack. Now the video in Warcraft
III is all screwed up. Not sure how to explain it but everything was the
same color. The colors they would flicker in and out Green, Yellow, Red.
Sometimes it would look fine but only for a second. Made the game very hard
to play. Just a word of caution to others.
Another 7000 card owner also noted WCIII problems:
I dont know if others are experiencing this, but the ATI update has
made Warcraft III lose textures, and create some weird lighting
problems. The game runs, but now has many display problems. Quake3 runs
fine, and so does Return to Castle Wolfenstein. My machine is a B&W G3
w/G4-550@600MHz, 384MB RAM, ATI Radeon7000 PCI, OS X 10.2.1, with the
warcraft 1.03 update. Is there a way to revert back to the old drivers
that came with OS X? Those seemed to work fine....
I don't think the July 2002 update will install in OS X 10.2 (the installer checks the OS X version usually based on past history with ATI updaters for OS X.) Note - one reader later wrote the July 2002 updater did install in 10.2, but I'm not going to test that personally. ATI had commented in the past that the installer checks of OS X versions were to prevent possible problems with future OS X versions that could have components like Opengl, etc. changed.) There may be a way to manually remove the update/reinstall the ATI drivers from the OS X 10.2 CD. Pacifist is a popular utility for extracting the DVD player, etc. from OS X CDs but have not used it personally.
I welcome other tips, reports (pros or cons) on the update. Include as much detail as possible on your Mac model, graphics card and OS/software.
If you've having problems downloading from the ATI site, readers sent a links to mirros of the update at http://maczone.free.fr/ati/radeon-0210.hqx and www.extremesims.com)