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10/18/02 Friday's News: Story DetailReturn to News Page

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Feedback on ATI October 2002 Driver Update
(Updated 10/29/2002 for Oct 29th Driver Update Links)
Reports Last Updated: 10/31/2002, 1:45 PM Eastern Time

Do Not Install Oct. 2002 drivers in 10.2.3:
Over the last month I've had several problem reports from (mostly Beige G3) readers that installed the Oct. 29th ATI driver update in 10.2.3. (The suggestion I had was to reinstall 10.2.3 update from the download 10.2.3 installer, which seems to be a general fix.) Since the Oct. 29th update was posted before 10.2.3 was released, I'd not install it over 10.2.3. Since 10.2.3 was noted to have OpenGL changes, I never considered installing the Oct. 29th drivers. (Even though in the past ATI's X driver updates would not install in OS X versions later than when they were posted.) Just posting this as a reminder and a note for anyone that did install them in 10.2.3 to try re-applying the 10.2.3 update.

Oct 29th ATI Driver Update (to address issues with prev. Oct. Update): (from the Oct 29th main news page - email from Bruno of ATI)

" New release of October software update posted today (October 29-2002).
www.ati.com/support/products/mac/radeon8500/osx/radeon8500maceditionosxdrivers.html
(that page notes Oct 29th date and links to this
Oct 2002 Driver update D/L page which should have the revised installer/files.- Mike
)

This release addresses the known issues mentioned in your reader reports with RADEON 7000 and Warcraft 3, Maya, Lightwave and the Sachs Marine Aquarium screensaver (Mac OS X 10.2.x issues). It also addresses the previous inability to disable the ATI Config Menu icon in OS 9 after installing the new Version 3 ATI Displays and a small number of other issues we managed to squeeze in fixes for.

Anyone running Mac OS X 10.1.3-10.1.5 would not need to reinstall, but should use this new update for any installed instances of OS 9 or upgrading to 10.2.x in the future.

Please read the included readme file, which may also be found on our download page.
Thanks
Bruno F."
(ATI)

Note - Later in the day the D/L page linked to 4 ATI tech notes on what the Oct. 29th driver update fixes (bugs present in the previous Oct 2002 update)


(previous page info follows)
This page has reader reports on the ATI October 2002 driver update for OS X 10.1.3-10.2.1 and OS 9.x. (See the update's Readme File before installing and note that there's verified Radeon 7000 card issues with Warcraft III and this update, and perhaps other apps/screensavers also with the 7000 card.)
Some of the emails I've gotten on the update do have some positives though - such as a PCI Radeon owner noting it solved the problem he had with the OS X DVD Player. And AGP Radeon card owners in general noted better performance with the update.

Reader Reports: (most recent first)
Do Not Install the Oct. 2002 drivers in 10.2.3: See Top of page above for why and a tip on fixing problems if you did.

I welcome other reports on the Oct 29th driver update (pros or cons). (Please include your graphics card and system/OS details)
Note - also send problem reports to ATI even though you may only get an auto-reply back - or let me know if it's ok to forward your email to my ATI contacts.

This reader noted the latest update fixed an issue he had with a G4 upgraded beige g3 and ATI's extensions. (I've seen some similar reports in the CPU upgrades database in the past)

(added 10/31/2002)
" Hey Mike,
I'm very excited, because for me this upgrade works great! After installing an OWC 500Mhz ZIF earlier this week in my beige G3 desktop, OS 9.2.2 wouldn't boot UNLESS I disabled the ATI Graphics Accelerator (it would boot until the startup partition and the trash were visible, and then it stopped - nothing happening anymore).

Reinstalling the first October Update didn't help. I mailed OWC and ATI. In their first reaction, both sent autoreplys with standard workarounds, not specific to my problem. ATI Europe wasn't even aware of the existence of a Radeon 7000 Mac (at least in this reply). I was just preparing for a long troubleshooting process, and also I was about to ask you about a (more or less) similar report in your database by Niall Julian on 3/12/2002, hoping he found a solution.
But suddenly, I can enjoy my upgraded Mac! I'll check OS 10.2 later, hope it's better now I have doubled my speed... I'll have to do a lot of work in 9.2.2 first (which was annoying slow without the graphics acceleration).
Note: I'm puzzled why ATI named this update EXACTLY the same as the other.
Thanks for keeping up your great site!
Jan B.
---
Beige G3 desktop (rev. A)
OWC 500Mhz ZIF
Radeon 7000 Mac
Mac OS 9.2.2
Mac OS 10.2 (not tried after installing the ZIF)
Wacom ADB tablet "

I refer to the latest update as Oct 29th since that is when it was publicly posted (and the released date on Burno's link above). Burno of ATI said the readme is dated Oct 18th, but the installer is dated Oct 23rd. However since it was only available starting Oct 29th and the installer is titled the same as the earlier release, I'm calling it "Oct. 29th" to distinguish it from the earlier Oct. update.


(added 10/31/2002)
" LIGHTWAVE 7.5
Oct. ATI update
Radeon 32mb DDR PCI
OS 9.22
BW Mac with XLR8 G4 500

I am not an "everyday-user" of lightwave, but i have common OGL display errors in the modeler app. Every shaded/textured mode is not updated correctly... Objects turn semi transparent after a tool change/action, and u have to move the viewport to get a proper refresh... sometimes a little quadratic artifact is displayed in a viewport.
Though everything seems much faster since my last use (in spring/summer).

Layout: Only tested some sample scenes. The shaded texturemodes seems to work correctly (NO errors like the modeler) Could not dig any deeper at the moment. Have mercy;-)
TRON"

This was in reply to a prev. OS 9/LW report which mentioned a layout texture issue (linked picture attached, highly compressed jpeg).


(added 10/31/2002)
" Hello,
I have an ati8500 mac edition running on a 533mhz and a 128nexus for a second monitor, Maya 4.5, OS 10.2.1

So i did/follow all the steps to get maya running without any problems, or at least i think i did, i got the upgrade Oct29 and did a repair perm., and i notice that if i add a polygon and only polygon model to a scene (ie. sphere) with some texture, maya will crash the whole system after doing some zoom in really close to the model, i can move the mouse but thats about it, this is similar to problem i had back when os10.1.9 (10.1.9?? 10.1.5 was the last pre10.2 version-Mike), where the monitor res have to be change because 1600x1200 wouldn't work, that solution is not working now either, tried few monitor resolutions and same thing, system wont respond just the mouse, no force quit either.
Any ideas,
Thanks
DS "

I wrote to my ATI contacts about this.


(added 10/31/2002)
" The graphics update from the 29th was intended to repair an issue with Maya. This issue causes a kernel panic when trying to quit Maya 4.5 with a Radeon 7000 installed (I've read similar reports for other cards elsewhere). Maya 3.5.1 PLE would cause a kernel panic when tumbling the view. The problem with 4.5 has been fixed, however, a new one has cropped up. Whereas the previous drivers would cause a kernel panic when trying to quit, the new drivers cause the program to cause a kernel panic when using hardware texturing and modifying any settings (shaders etc.).

I have also contacted Alias/wavefront about this problem, although they seem less willing to make changes as my post on their support boards was deleted a day after I wrote it. I am very impressed with the speed at which ATI attempted to solve this problem... its very unusual (ask anybody with an SiiG ATA 133 card that keeps the computer from deep sleep) that a company will make such efforts so rapidly after the release of a new set of drivers.
Casey "

I also sent this report to ATI for investigation.


(added 10/31/2002)
" I have a ATI mac edition 7000. Using 10.2.1. This update fixed an issue with screen effects for me. Some the texture's and/or displays had not looked like they did before Oct 19 updater. Especially, the "Old Glory" screen effect. Looks alot better now. And a rare screen corruption issue. I had tried to reinstall the July 2002 updater but, said I already had the files I needed.
I am happy with this update so far.
Don "


(added 10/31/2002)
" Only good things to say. The original Oct02 update seemed to be associated with OSX instability - 2/3 kernel panics since install.
After the updated update there have been none. Beige DT with G4 update and Radeon 7000. OSX10.2.1, 768 meg ram.
drjoe "


(added 10/31/2002)
" Hi Mike
This is my configuration
G4 400( at 500) 704 MB ram
flashed Powercolor Radeon 8500(275/275) 64 MB DDR
20 and 40 GB Harddisk
Mac OSX 10.2.1 (I dont want to boot in Mac OS 9)

My only problem is: I am not able to switch to 16:9 for TV output
in 10.1.5 this was never a problem
I can't select 16:9 in ATI Display Utilities
all formats 4:3 and 16:9 are greyed out
I deleted the preferences files but there is no change

Any thing other works great
I thought this driver will fix my problem but nothing no chance
Now I able to create DivX Movies on my MAC
But I cant watch them in 16:9 on my widescreenTV
The quality of playback on TV in 10.2 is better then in 10.1.5
Some solutions
Franz K. "

If anyone else sees this problem let me know. (Regardless of the fact you may get an auto-reply, also remember to send problem reports to ATI as well.)


(added 10/31/2002)
" Hi Mike,
I don't now if you remember my problem, with a formac Gallery and a radeon 700 pci (my computer : g4 450 agp).
Just to tell you that the last update don't change anything for me : monitor preference panel quit when i launch it, because of an displaydescriptionError ...
Thks
Ben. "

Another Formac LCD owner reported the same thing (Oct 29th update didn't help). ATI is reportedly looking into this.


(added 10/31/2002)
" Hello, Mike.
After the latest ATI update, I could no longer boot into OS 10. I updated 10.2.1, and my 10.1.5 and OS 9.2.2 installs. (three hard drives) I also did the Stuffit update, but i can't believe that's the problem. Here's what I see.

OS 10.2.1 starts with the apple screen, and then hangs with a small black bar over the apple on the AGP monitor. OS 10.1.5 hangs at the checking disks screen with a kernal panic. OS 9 has no trouble.

I upgraded my 10.1.5 disk to 10.2, then 10.2.1, and it is working. This is the first major trouble I've had with OS 10. I repaired and checked the disks, but nothing brought 10 back until the upgrade install. My main 10.2.1 is still unbootable, but I can limp along with this upgrade install.
Hopefully, I can get my main 10 disk repaired.
RedHaz
(I wrote asking what ATI card, system detail, etc. and he replied)
Hello, Mike.
Sorry I forgot to include that information. I was thrashed last night.
G4 400 GigE
1GB ram, 20, 40 80 GB hard drives
ATI Rage 128 AGP, ATI Radeon Mac Edition PCI

After troubleshooting all last night and now in the evening, I found the culprit. A few days ago, I got tired of seeing the OS 10.2.1 warning from the IOKITUSBREADER.kext (for my Lexar GS-UFD-20SA-TP card reader) so I clicked "Repair". in the past, I would click "Don't use" or "Use". Everything seemed fine then, but now I recall seeing an icon flash by just before the gray Apple appears on bootup. I think it looked like the startup disk icon with the question mark.
Anyway, things worked until the other day, when I installed the ATI update and other stuff.
What put me on to the USB kext was after I updated OS 10.1.5, I got the same warning again. I clicked "Don't use", and then checked the System/Extensions directory. My old Jaguar had the extension, my new Jag didn't. I trashed the kext and the old Jag booted.
Moral of the story:
Beware of kexts needing repair. "


(added 10/31/2002)
" Hi, I just did the Oct. 29 ATI update on my G4 400 AGP with the built in video, OS X.2 (up to date). The reports on versiontracker said it should work on my system so I tried and it installed ok. When I restarted it went through startup ok, but when the desktop should show up it just shows the blue backgroung screen (it hasn't loaded the backgroung picture). The mouse cursor is visible and moves around, but nothing else is on the screen. I was able to connect to the file server from my powerbook so I know the OS is working in there somewhere in there. I will work on fixing the problem when I get home from work.
(he later wrote)

I repaired the disk and permissions several times and even ran disk warrior. It didn't seem to help anything. I even removed all the stuff installed by the ATI update and replaced it with the older files from another partition. Nothing has fixed the problem so I am not sure if the update is the problem, or if installing it just triggered another problem. I may just need to start over with a new system install if I can't fix the problem.
BTW, it is the Rage 128 card.
Shelby "


(added 10/30/2002)
" Great site. I love all the information that you provide.
Well I have just installed this update on my Ti 800mhz G4 Powerbook. All seems perfectly fine and dandy. This update even sees my 7500 card in the ATi displays, which I never remember it doing before. Also this is the same in OS 9 but, you get the memory usage selection as well.

I have had no boot up problems or any weird glitches as of yet and I also have not played any games with it yet. I will try Quake III later once I get the chance to see if it gets any faster.. Also I am running 10.2.1 and OS 9.2.2 with the latest updates you can have at this point.
I hope this helps some...
Dj P. "


(added 10/30/2002)
" On my iBook 700 12.1" Combo with the "Radeon" 16MB graphics card, SereneScreen's Marine Aquarium is still screwed up... The front lighting (in the screen saver there is an option to adjust the back light and the front light separately) has no effect, so it is still (first broke with the first Oct. update) ugly...
Dwight K. "


(added 10/30/2002)
" B&W with owc g4 550 clocked at 600
sonnet ata 100 card
40 & 20 gig hard drives ata
1 gig ram
radion 7000, orion rage(128)
os 9.2.2 10.2

the new update seems to work fine, even diablo ii seems to have no issues on millions of colors and open gl, i even get my second monitor back after shut down, may have been 10.2 update. aquarium issues seem to work fine, rebooted and ran perfect... so far so good,
andrew m "


(added 10/30/2002)
" Mike, I have a G4 450 AGP With Powerlogic G4 1GH cpu. New Radon 8500. After latest ATI Oct.29 upgrade, My Maxtor 40 gb takes 2 minutes and 15 seconds to cold boot. I have moved back to the board terminal where it boots in 1 minute 13 seconds. (Board terminal?-Mike) Powerlogic is no help because the L3 cache is not active until boot. Great site, Thanks.
Thomas S. "

Strange... no other reports like this so far. I asked if he had added ram recently which also increases cold boot time (ram test).


(added 10/30/2002)
" Hi, Mike....
Noted your posting about the OCT 29 ATI upgrade.

I noticed that under 9.2.2 that this "new" upgrade has broken OPEN GL in Lightwave 6.5 and 7.5 so that whenever you view motion paths in Layout (user is in OBJECT mode), the texture on objects vanishes into a tiny badly drawn object in the upper left hand layout window.
(Note - Bruno F. of ATI (marketing or QA guy I think) said that there's no OS 9 OpenGL changes in the Oct. 29th update, compared to the original Oct. update I assume. So not sure why this happened if it was OK with the first Oct. 2002 update-Mike)

Setting Layouts' mode to CAMERA will make the motion path vanish, at which then the texture appears on the object as it should.

This problem does not occur under 10.2.1 or new OS builds I cannot comment further on.

I have a picture if you would like me to send that shows the problem in detail.
Cheers...Kurt W
(I wrote Kurt to ask for more info such as what ATI graphics card he was using)

ATI Radeon 8500 AGP for the MAC, system 9.2.2, QT 5.0.2, Power Mac G4 450 MP. No other graphics board installed. Open GL 1.2.4. Screen rez was 1200 by 1024.
Lightwave was the only application running when I noted the failures.
Picture is attached.
Kurt "

One reader that had previously noted a Maya 4.5 problem (below) in OS X with the first Oct 2002 update posted in the forums that the Oct. 29th update solved that problem. He's using OS X 10.2.1 however, not OS 9.


Although I thought there was a comment about permissions being fixed for this update, this Radeon 7000 owner noted a problem:

(added 10/30/2002)
" Mike,
I just wanted to let you know the problem I had with the latest ATi update (Oct. 29, 2002)

My Config:
Power Macintosh G3 Minitower
OWC Mercury G4/533
768 MB OWC RAM
OrangeMicro USB 2/Firewire PCI card
ATi Radeon 7000 PCI card
IDE bus 0: IBM 120GXP 40 GB
IDE bus 1: LG GCC-4120C DVD-ROM/CD-RW (and)
Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 15 GB
Mac OS 10.2.1
(almost everything was chosen using your site's resources! unbeatable!) For the record, this machine has been the least problematic Mac I've encountered (I worked for a Apple Authorized Service Center this summer, I've seen some ugly situations). In fact, I have a friend who's stock G4/733 has more issues than this machine.

I went to download this update right away, since WarCraft III bit the bag when it came to the October update. The installer ran just fine, and everything looked in the clear. Why should I doubt that this would work, as the last three updates have been cake? I signed off the machine and pushed "Restart" at the loginwindow. I waited the usual minute for the monitor to come on (as the Beige G3s don't like to show the boot image on the Radeons...video only after we get the "Welcome to OS X" window), and.........nothing.

I got annoyed and began to fuss with all the PRAM resets and such. No luck. It booted into OS 9 just fine. I couldn't see a problem. Regardless of the fashion I wished to enter OS X, the machine just wouldn't have it.

I removed the Radeon...no progress. The only difference was that, because it was on-board video, it showed the grey Apple...but no "spiny thing" that would normally accompany a successful boot beyond the ROM. I pulled the other PCI cards to no avail.

I finally resigned myself to reinstalling the OS (my home directories and other data files are on a separate partition...no problem with losing any data). I then requested the help of my friend who owns the aforementioned G4/733. We threw my drive in the G4 and ran the 10.2 Install CD. The first thing I did was run Disk Utility. Lo and behold, the permissions for all of the ATi kexts were wrong. (gasp!) Once they were fixed, I decided to forgo the OS install and just pop the drive back in the Beige G4. Crossing of the fingers ensured that it booted properly. Everything was intact, and everything seems to be working properly.

So, moral of this story is to Repair Privileges on your boot disk after every OS component installation. This would have likely saved a terrifying evening.
Again, thanks for the site! Dennis "

I've commented several times in the news over the last few months that after installing 10.2 and running repair permissions showing a lot of corrections, I routinely run it after any OS X update. (Including IE 5.2.x).


One of the readers that reported issues with the prev. driver update and his Formac LCD wrote the update didn't solve that problem:

(added 10/30/2002)
" Hello again Mike,
I wrote earlier about some sort of bizarre incompatibility between the October ATI drivers and the Formac Gallery 1740. It seems that the new update has not fixed the problem as of yet. This time I learned my lesson and made sure to backup using Carbon Copy Cloner before installing. And sure enough, after installing the newest update, the Monitors preference pane crashed as before.

This time I tried hooking up another display (an old graphite Apple Studio Display 15 TFT screen) and it worked flawlessly. I was able to change resolutions and bit depth without crashing. It is puzzling since the Formac doesn't require any drivers to run, so this issue could be specific to my Radeon AGP and Formac Gallery combo. It runs just fine using the drivers that come with Jaguar... so all fingers point to the update...
Thanks,
Jay "


Note - reports listed below were before the Oct 29th 2002 revised installer was released which should address the Radeon 7000 issues, 3D apps problems with Radeon to Radeon 8500 series cards and TV out in OS X problems noted with the original Oct. 2002 driver updates. (See above ATI page links for specific notes on past problems.)


Reports from the first Oct.2002 Driver Update: (before Oct 29th revised updater)

(added 10/29/2002)
" Hi Mike,
i noticed inverted colors on a G3 BW with Radeon 7000 and the shareware game BOOM.
I couldn't fix the inverted colors after several restarts, but switching the ColorSync-Profile for a second fixes the problem.
greetings
Niko "

I asked what OS version he was running and he said OS 9.2.2. (There's definitely Radeon 7000 driver issues with the Oct. 2002 update, at least in OS X.)


(added 10/29/2002)
" I have problem with WC3 too after installing the ATI update. WC3 v1.03 was running fine on my TiBook 550 ( Fall 2001) [Radeon Mobility 16MB chip-Mike] but since the ATI update. There are problems with some of the characters and with the lightning.
Luc B. "

I asked what OS version he was using (please include details like that in reports) - he later said 10.2.1. Maybe not only the 7000 radeon has problems with the Oct 2002 drivers.


(added 10/29/2002)
" Hi Mike,
Just wanted to let you know that I have also seen the inverted colors on OS 9.2.2. After launching the game "Realmz" the colors become inverted and it does require me to switch the color sync profile to fix it.

I have also experienced screen corruption when switching from full screen to windowed mode in UT and Unreal. I did not get this in the last driver update. I have a RADEON 8500 in a PowerMac G4/400 (upgraded processor to 550) with 576megs of RAM.
Edward "

I asked Edward if the Oct 29th update helped with this problem and he said no.


(added 10/28/2002)
" okay the machine
B&W g4 600mhz (owc 550 g4 ziff running at 600)
Pioneer dvr 104 internal
sonnet ata 100 with current firmware
1 gig ram
40 gig and 20 gig hd, 20 3 partitions, os 10.2, 10.1.5(bkup), os 9.2.2 radeon 7000(retail), rage orion (rage128 chip based), 21" nec, 15" pallet monitor

did the ati october upate, no apparent problems noted, went to the screen savers, as all the horror seems to start there, most seemed normal... except the marine aquarium, on the orion card everything was normal, on the radion, a very cast blue, and fades to total black, also had some pixeled issues, wow that sucks
(the Oct 2002 driver update has some 7000 Radeon bugs - noted by the image problem in Warcraft III reported early on. I can't remember now if the WCIII and other issues were reported in OS 9 as well as OS X however. Check past reports here and in the forum links below.-Mike)

checked photoshop etc, everything seemed pretty normal, but if one thing is bad so is something els, so i downloaded the 10.2 update from app, and reinstalled onto the system.... hoping since it had new video ( ati specific) drivers it would over write the october update, and it did, back to normal.. very bad update, the video card people just blame apple for the problems...? my dvd playback is fine and everything is working, including the aquarium, easiest way back i have found.....short of complete reinstall.....
only thing wrong was wake up from deep sleep radion would be corrupt and just show garbage, i can live with that over bad color and screen management...
andrew "

The fix for the Radeon PCI/corrupted video on wake from sleep was noted again here in last month's news page.
("Tip for PCI Radeon Card Corrupted Display After Wake from Sleep in OS X 10.2"
I.E. Copy latest OS 9 ATI ROM Xtender file to OS X - but that file is normally installed by ATI OS X driver updates.)


(added 10/28/2002)
" I installed the update a few days ago, both in Mac OS 10.2.1 and 9.2.2 (I don't use the latter regularily) and it works allright. I've got a Gigabyte Maya AP64D-H ATi RADEON 8500-based card with 64MB DDR. I haven't noticed any performance difference.
Your site rocks! Keep up the good work. Reinier J. "


(added 10/28/2002)
" hi-
One thing I noticed after applying the October ATI update was that the fan on my powerbook seemed to kick on with almost no provocation. After removing all the usual suspects (suspect fonts, prefpanes, startup items; all these have been known to get the fan working - Retrorun is a guaranteed fan starter) I was left with only the ATI update as the culprit. I retrieved the 10.2 ATI drivers from the Install CD with Pacifist, repaired permissions with Disk Utility, and now my fan again runs very infrequently.
Thanks-
Chris "

I've not installed the Oct 2002 ATI update on my PB G4/800 DVI (Radeon 7500 mobility) but the fan still runs at high speeds sometimes, but not often except when running 3D games (which kicks the fan on high pretty quickly as noted in my PB G4/800 review). Maybe the new drivers better enable Quartz Extreme and therefore exercise the chip more?


(added 10/28/2002)
" Mike,
After using the new ATI update for a few weeks now I have noticed some issues that I have not seen before. Using a shareware game named Realmz caused all my monitor colors to alternate...I thought at first that the monitor colors had been switched to 256 color, but it seems that all the colors changed more than just inverted, so what was Blue was then Red, what was Grey was yellow and so on. It was very disconcerting. several reboots did nothing to fix the problem. Finally I rebooted with Extensions off in OS9.2.2 and all seemed well.

I checked my Preferences and listed by date modified and noticed one ATI preference had changed at the time of when I tried to play the Realmz game it was ATI Theater Preferences. This is similar to a previous problem I once had in the past when I first got the Radeon 7000. A problem with this ATI Theater file. Deletion of this file seemed to be the cure. Since this has been the 2nd time I've had a problem with this ATI Theater pref I wonder if there are some ATI extensions I can keep and some I can get rid off? Also I have noticed I have had some video artifacts in some 3D games (MOH, RtCW, Diablo2...) but am not sure if they are due to the ATI update or other such issue.
thanks, Luke R. "

I know since day one of the Oct. 2002 update that WCIII major image quality issues were reported by Radeon 7000 owners but I was thinking that was a OS X driver issue (to be fixed in the next update I was told some time back after reporting the problem to ATI.)
I askd Luke if he's referring to the Theatre mode extension installed by Apple (I've seen that ext. even on new macs in the past). I don't think it's really necessary to have enabled. (As I remember it was to affect brightness, etc when playing DVDs/Movies - not a must have extension.)


(added 10/25/2002)
"I have had no problems with the Oct 2002 ATI Update on a G4/400 (AGP) running Mac OS X 10.2.1. Unfortunately it does not fix a longstanding bug that most people who are experiencing - attribute to some interaction with the Rage cards in these and similar machines. The bug manifests itself mainly in the screensaver - selecting certain stock (i.e. installed BY OS X 10.2.1 installer) screensavers will IMMEDIATELY lock up the whole machine requiring a force rebootwith the reset button and in some case a unplug reset. very nasty bug - many claim there is no such bug, but for the ones of use that have it (see Apple com forums, and OS X Hints forums, and others) it is a real and VERY annoying bug. I basically have to use the stick "Flurry" screensaver - and while not bad - I would like a choice.

In my case I have verified to myself that the problem lies in the ATI Rage card in the AGP slot by installing an older ATI VR 128 in a PCI slot - all screensavers are fine. We also have an iMac 350 with Rage card in it that exhibits the same problem. Many people have written to Apple about the issue - but as of yet they refuse to admit their is an issue. I had high hopes for the Oct 2002 ATI Update fixing the issue - guess not.

G4/400 (AGP)
Mac OS X 10.2.1
1.2G RAM
C.P.
(I wrote to ask which card - Rage128 I suspect - he had and what specific screensavers were problematic per an ATI guy's questions-Mike)

Yes I have run "repair disk permissions" several time as a matter of fact... Also - many on the discussion board mentioned this specifically related to Mac OS X 10.2.1, but I am pretty sure it existed in some versions of OS X prior to 10.2.1 - although I think it is more pronounce in 10.2.1 and affects a larger number of people.
(His attachments noted a Rage128 Pro AGP card) "

I don't have that problem here with the Oct 2002 drivers on an OS X 10.1.5 Dual G4/533 system w/8500 AGP card. (Update: Over the weekend I updated my G4/533DP with 8500 AGP card to 10.2.1 - all screensavers seem OK before and after installing the Oct 2002 ATI driver update on that system. I didn't install a Rage128/Pro AGP card to see if that mattered however. If any Rage128/Rage128 Pro AGP owners see this screensaver problem - let me know.)


(added 10/25/2002)
" Hi,
I recently installed the October 2002 ATI update onto my G4 800DP with Radeon 8500 and Formac 17" LCD, running 10.2.1 and I am getting artefacts on the desktop - usually over the dock icons. I am having problems in Warcraft III as well - after a while I get a trail from any moving characters in the games - the demo for Bugdom 2 also has major problems - the whole screen goes a funky green/red colour - you can still play and see what is going on but the graphics are messed up quite badly - even after quitting this game the screen stays the same - the desktop is visible and usable but messed up with the green and red graphics with dots/artefacts everywhere. It reminds me of what happens when I overclock the videocard in my PC a little too high.

I have had this problem once before with one of the ATI updates (not the last one but the one before). Any idea what it could be?
Regards
Gavin
(Gavin later noted this was a flashed PC model (126 firmware). Not all flashed PC models have problems, but some have, sometimes due to core/clock speeds, other times for unknown reasons. That may or may not be a factor. You can reduce the core/ram clock speeds with firmware mod utilities, but that may or may not help. Not sure why the driver update would have affected this... but I've seen odd image quirks, OpenGL/3D/Rave problems, etc. with a flashed 128MB 8500 card earlier this year.-Mike)"

There's been some threads in the forums video card section that some Formac LCDs owners (and one dell) have had problems with the update. One formac display owner however noted he didn't. ATI is looking into this issue now (they posted that they are obtaining a Formac display to test)


(added 10/24/2002)
" G4 350 (sawtooth), Original ATI Radeon 8500 for pc w/ v126 rom flashed. Running OSX 10.2.1 w/ 1G Ram.

Major problem:
- Can't display OpenGL textures in Layout, all textures changed to black silhouette.

Minor:
- Keep losing backdrop & grid in Modeler (same problem also appear in 10.2.1)

Solution:
- Run the 10.2.1 update again could eliminate texture problem in Layout.
- Modeler problem unsolved.
B O N A "


(added 10/24/2002)
" Mike, I added the ATI update on OS9.2.2 yesterday and have not noticed any problems as of yet. General 2D seems to be faster, with a slight increase in frame rate while playing in a few online 3D mac games. Photoshop 7 scrolling in OS9 seems quicker than before. I have not had any sleep problems with OS9, only with OSX, so in Jaguar I have been turning sleep off. Have not tested this update in OSX10.2.1 as of yet.

hardware: BWG3 rev 2, G4/500, 1GB RAM, ATI Radeon 7000, Sonnet Tempo ATA66, Adaptec 2930, OrangeMicro OrangeLink FW/USB, 6GB ATA33, 26GB ATA66, 45GB ATA100, 120GB ATA100. OS9.2.2, OSX10.2.1.
Cordially,
Luke R "


Report from a flashed PC 8500 card owner:

(added 10/24/2002)
" Hi,
I installed the new drivers a few days ago and since that moment MacOS X has frozen 3 times. The first two were (I think ?) related to MT-NewsWatcher X 3.3b1 : the interface (but not the mouse) froze when I tried to access a particular newsgroup. The third happened while I was selecting some text in TextEdit. Each time it was the same thing : the interface suddenly doesn't respond anymore but the mouse can move, then it is replaced by a spinning beach ball, then the arrow comes back, and so on until I reboot. Looking at system.log, I can see :

mach_kernel: IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.
last message repeated xxx times
WindowServer[173]: CGXOrderMenuBarWindow: error ordering
menuBarWindow forward 268451843
mach_kernel: ATIRadeon::submit_buffer: Overflowed block waiting for
FIFO space. Have 5, need 6. RBBM_STATUS 0x80036100

And this is printed a number of times, especially the 4th line. xxx is a number from 2 to 282. Each crash had the exact same error message, with the exception of the number xxx and the number of times the 4th line was repeated.

I re-installed the drivers from MacOS 10.2.1 using Pacifist.

PowerMac G4/400 AGP
576Mo RAM
MacOS 10.2.1 (update from 10.1.5)
ATI Radeon 8500 AGP (flashed Powercolor Evil Master II Pro) 64MB, ROM 126
BB "


(added 10/23/2002)
" Hi Mike,
There are no reports yet from pre-G3 owners running OSX yet so I thought I'd pass on my initial results. I don't really see much difference from the previous July release in general use in the Finder. In Quake III 1.3.2 test 4 I am getting 50fps. I do notice that DVD playback is not quite as smooth as it was before. This is all with Quartz Extreme enabled and that is the only negative that I've noticed so far. I suppose I might have higher frame rates with QE disabled but have not tested that yet. I'll do further testing tomorrow with and without QE and with the previous driver release.

Power Tower Pro 225
Sonnet G4 800
1Gig RAM
Radeon Mac Edition 32MB
OS X 10.2.1 via XpostFacto
Marcus H. "


(added 10/23/2002)
" PROBLEMS with MAYA 4.5 !

G4/500, ATI Radeon 32mb DDR with the ATI Okt. update:

Jaguar 10.2
- OpenGL texture display errors!
- U can't use any Lighting in your scene, ends up in heavy texture and color corruption

SOLUTION:
install Jaguar update 10.2.1 !!!
(or go back to previous 10.2 original drivers)
TRON "

Update - Tron later posted in the forums that the Oct. 29th update solved the problems he had with Maya 4.5 in OS X noted above. (However one OS 9 Lightwave user noted a problem with the Oct. 29th update.)


(added 10/22/2002)
" So far Mike, everything seems great under Mac OS 9.2.2.
Have an iMac DV G3/400, Rage 128, 192 MB RAM, pretty much stock configuration since I bought it in April 2000. Only system software upgrades have been from 9.0 to 9.0.4 when I bought it, then to 9.2.2 in January this year. I have been updating QuickTime on a fairly regular basis, though.

This weekend, I upgraded from QT 6.0 to 6.0.2. Then, I saw the ATI Radeon retail update, and figured, what the heck, might as well hose my system *really* good. To my surprise, the combo of QT 6.0.2 and 9.2.2, plus the Oct 2002 ATI driver update has made my iMac G3/400 downright snappy in 9.2.2.

This machine has always played DVD video quite well, and I noticed in the ATI config menu the de-interlacing option is grayed out. No surprises there. It identifies the iMac graphics as 'Powered by Unknown ATI Graphics.'

What truly surprised me was the difference these drivers have made in 2-D acceleration. All the 2-D operations are *lots* quicker.

I've tried a variety of applications. None seem broken, but I have no DV camcorder handy to check capture in iMovie. Previously saved iMovie projects play back nicely. The only thing that seems somewhat flaky is QT plug-in performance with IE 5.1.6. After playing a page with a QT movie, the cursor will disappear until the next page is displayed. Then it comes back. Weird.

If I run into programs broken, I'll let you know. Thanks for xlr8yourmac!
Best wishes,
Kurt W. "


(added 10/22/2002)
" Hello Mike !
First i want to tell you that i'm french so excuse me fore my english...

I read this in the reports (below):

    " Hi, I haven't read about people with the problem I've had since installing the update so here goes. I have a G4/500 AGP machine with 1 gig of RAM running 10.2.1 and 9.2.2. My video card is a Radeon Mac Edition AGP running a Formac Gallery 1740 LCD screen. I've noticed that any time I've installed any updates from ATI in OSX, after the restart my color depth is set to Thousands of colors. Even when you go to the control panel and change it to Millions, you have to restart completely before it changes. This time however, the October update seems to have caused havoc with my monitor settings. Now, my display appears to be stuck in Thousands of colors, and any attempt to open the Monitors in System Preferences causes System Preferences to crash.

    Stumped, I ran the disk utilities on the 10.2 install disc. The hard drive found no errors, but Disk Permissions for all the ATI stuff was whacked. I fixed them and restarted, but my problem still wasn't fixed. I was able to bring up the Monitors preferences once (out of like 20 tries) but strangely there were no monitor resolutions I could choose from and only Thousands (which was grayed out) was showing. So needless to say, this update is really screwed my system up. I haven't found any issues though with the drivers on the OS 9 side. They seem to be okay there. Thanks, Jay "

I have the same problem with my G4 450 AGP / Radeon 7000 pci / gallery formac 17"4 (LCD display).

The radeon 7000 is the only card in my mac. The october update resolve my DVD player problem an TV out is now ok but i still have an DisplayDescriptionError that make my monitor's preferences panel crash.

Now a day i haven't found any issues like Jay, the only think i can tell is that problem appeared with 10.1.3 and Jaguar. The old ATI updates (like july) always resolved that error : it's an Apple bug maybe ! I hope that the 10.2.2 apple update will be better for my system, it's on the good way.
Thks,
Ben, "


(added 10/22/2002)
" Hi Mike,
I see no difference after the October 2002 ATI update. I am not a not a gamer and I won't have MicroSoft on my system for any reason whatsoever so I did not expect any problems. However, given the problems some people are having with this update (and every other update, ATI or otherwise), I am not complaining. To be honest, I have never seen any measurable difference on my system from any of these ATI updates. Do they really do anything, or does ATI just 'touch' the files and repost them every couple of months? (There are changes made, sometimes to fix specific game problems or other bugs (such as the wake from sleep corrupted video with some Radeon PCI cards for instance) but depending on what your apps/usage is (and card used), you may not be affected by these or notice any difference in use. But clearly there are changes being made to some drivers - otherwise you'd not see the new problems crop up like those noted from 7000 card owners running WCIII. (examples of how bugs can crop up in revised files that were not fully tested.)-Mike)

G4 500 single processor
512 MB
Radeon 8500, overclocked to 300 Mhz GPU and RAM

Unlike the software updates, overclocking my Radeon 8500 made a slight , but noticeable improvement in scrolling smoothness and overall smoothness when dragging windows around. It isn't much, but it is free.
Regards,
Ronald P "


(added 10/22/2002)
" Mike,
I installed the new update on my iBook 700 (runing OS X 10.2.1, with 640 MB of RAM) and have been experencing the same problems as a lot of Radeon 7000 owners have with WC3 with strange textures and lighting. No other noticeable changes in any other game I have tried it in.
-Walter C "


(added 10/22/2002)
" Hi Mike,
I've had this problem for a few weeks now and neither ATI nor Apple seem to be much help, but since forum registration has been down for a while I have been unable to post to the forum in search of a solution. I hope you may be able to help. Here's my specs:

Dual 450 G4
768 MB of RAM
OS 10.2.1
Retail ATI Radeon 8500 Mac Edition installed in the AGP slot

Here's the problem and the various things I've tried. I purchased and installed an ATI Radeon 8500 Mac Edition so my system could take advantage of Quartz Extreme under 10.2. I got screen artifacts and other strange screen behavior under 10.2. This doesn't happen under 9.2. I reformatted my hard drive and reinstalled OS 10.2. During installation of the first OS 10.2 CD the screen looks fine, but when it reboots and asks for the second CD the artifacts return. If I boot into OS 9.2 and remove the 10.2 drivers and then reboot into 10.2 it fixes the artifact problem but not only does it not then take advantage of Quartz Extreme, but my screen saver (the one that comes with 10.2) runs very slow (1 fps or thereabout). I tried the recent (October 2002) ATI driver update but that didn't do anything to fix the problem.

An Apple Store employee suggested the ROM extender transfer from OS 9 to OS 10.2 thing that I've read about in the forums but that didn't work. ATI thinks it's a configuration problem even though it doesn't do it in OS 9.2 and still does it in 10.2 with a clean install and nothing else installed. ATI says they've heard of this with others out there, but they don't know what the systems have in common (funny then that they didn't bother to ask for my system config during that call). My hunch is a driver problem.
Hope you can help, thanks.
Mike S "

I have two 8500 retail Mac Radeons - never saw this problem with them. But I have seen similar problems with flashed PC models. If you can't test the card in another mac perhaps, I'd try to get the card replaced, even though it's odd it works fine in OS 9 and not OS X - which makes you think it's just a driver issue (or other software running in OS X).


(added 10/21/2002)
" I am getting an off-color box that follows my pointer around, in a few programs. Strangely, it does not follow across multiple monitors connected to the same card. It looks like a lite-grey transparent box overlay in IE 5, but only appears when the text-insertion i-beam cursor is visible. And only on my main display (w/menubar). It also appeared in Age of Empires II, in some of the games cut-scenes during the tutorials. There it looked like the box contained a lower-color-resolution version of the screen, i.e. low color count that was dithered and pixelated.

It seems to follow the color-calibration profile around (I regularly calibrate my monitor). I am venturing a guess that the square underneath the cursor is not getting color-corrected. I tried setting my other monitor to the same profile (via the displays pane in system preferences), and that monitor does the same thing. Looks pretty ugly, and a big annoyance since installing the ATI update a few days ago. I guess I could use a generic profile for now, but that is not color-accurate for my uses. I may try a re-calibration when I get a chance. However, this problem was nonexistent before updating the ATI drivers (with the current profile).

MDD Dual 867, Radeon 8500 AGP, 512 MB 2100 ram, bootable 230 MB raid, OS X 10.2.2, Gretag-macbeth Eye-One Match color calibrator
Jokton "


(added 10/21/2002)
" Hey Mike,
The ATI october update solved the deep sleep problem (corrupted screen after wake-up) in my G3 desktop (overclocked 233->278Mhz) with a Radeon 7000.
Thanks for the great site! Jan B. "

(The ATI ROM Xtender file is apparently the fix for this. For those that didn't have it already installed by a prev. ATI OS X update, manually copying it was the previously reported fix for this problem (noted again last month in the main site news page from some Radeon PCI/10.2 owners.)


(added 10/21/2002)
" Hello Mike,
Here's my setup:

Yosemite G3 B/W 400 MHz, PCI RADEON (original, NOT 7000)
OS X 10.2.1
Quartz Extreme Hack enabled.

I have not read this on the reports, but from my testing, the QuickTime artifacts ARE GONE!!! I'm not sure if it was the ATI October Drivers, or the newly released QuickTime 6.0.2, but after I installed both, I started playing QuickTime movies, and there ARE NO MORE ARTIFACTS!!! Quartz Extreme on PCI seems to be working fine!!! I have not tried DVD playback yet...I'll try that tonight. Congrats on your excellent site!!
iVan "


(added 10/21/2002)
" Hi,
I haven't read about people with the problem I've had since installing the update so here goes. I have a G4/500 AGP machine with 1 gig of RAM running 10.2.1 and 9.2.2. My video card is a Radeon Mac Edition AGP running a Formac Gallery 1740 LCD screen. I've noticed that any time I've installed any updates from ATI in OSX, after the restart my color depth is set to Thousands of colors. Even when you go to the control panel and change it to Millions, you have to restart completely before it changes. This time however, the October update seems to have caused havoc with my monitor settings. Now, my display appears to be stuck in Thousands of colors, and any attempt to open the Monitors in System Preferences causes System Preferences to crash.

Stumped, I ran the disk utilities on the 10.2 install disc. The hard drive found no errors, but Disk Permissions for all the ATI stuff was whacked. I fixed them and restarted, but my problem still wasn't fixed. I was able to bring up the Monitors preferences once (out of like 20 tries) but strangely there were no monitor resolutions I could choose from and only Thousands (which was grayed out) was showing. So needless to say, this update is really screwed my system up. I haven't found any issues though with the drivers on the OS 9 side. They seem to be okay there.
Thanks,
Jay "


(added 10/21/2002)
" Hello Mike
Got an ibook 700 with radeon and I experienced the same problems with warcraft 3 after upgrading. Fortunately I had backuped my old drivers.

However, I should say that what is the most annoying is that this upgrade was recommended by blizzard tech support themselves, because of another display problem I was experiencing with W 3 1.03
Sincerely,
Alexandre, Infosoft "


(added 10/21/2002)
" Mike,
Have you any reports of people using the Oct 2002 ATI driver update with older Apple hardware? The supported hardware README lists the Xclaim VR and 3D as compatible under OS9 (the cards have the RAGE II/Pro chips).

I've installed the update on my venerable Wallstreet 266 which came with the LT version of the RAGE Pro chip. Par for the course, ATI's installer seems to just blindly install all the extensions over OS 9.2.2's versions, plus ones for hardware I don't have.

The relevant new extensions for this hardware are ...
ATI Graphics Accelerator 5.6.5
ATI Resource Manager 3.1.4
ATI ROM Xtender 1.1.3
ATI Video Accelerator 4.8.7
OpenGLRendererATI 1.3.3
I don't know if the ROM Xtender is needed for the Wallstreets
(See the FAQ's Video cards section for a list of pre-OS X ATI extensions and what each is for. The ROM Xtender is a firmware patch basically for retail cards. -Mike)

I don't use the graphics hardware for much, but MacMAME seems to see and use the video chip just fine. I've experienced one video glitch so far, but that was with the ATI Menu config Control Panel loaded, and I cannot say for sure that the update was to blame.

I really wish ATI would get together with Apple and make their updater autodetect built-in hardware better. But until then, consider this a successful data point for the older RAGE II/Pro chips.
-dean t. "

I too wish the installer would not install unnecessary extensions although I believe they are 'smart loading' and those not needed are not loaded. Also the ATI Control Panel is only for use with retail cards, but resolution control is done via the standard monitors control panel, so the ATI CP isn't really essential.


Reports from Oct 18th and earlier follow)

" I have a 450MHz Beige G3 with a PCI Radeon card (the original one, not the 7000 model). After I installed Jaguar the DVD player would not quit correctly, it just hung the entire system (mouse pointer froze too). This happened in both 10.2 and 10.2.1. Anyway, the October 2002 ATI drivers seem to have fixed this, so I'm happy.

I haven't really tested it other than that, but the Bugdom 2 demo works with no problems.

I've never seen this problem mentioned anywhere else, so it may be somehow specific to my machine.
Ben D. "

I have had other reports like this in the past with Jaguar and PCI radeon's (DVD player problem either when starting or quitting the app.) Glad to hear that's fixed.


" Mike- I just installed the latest ATI up date for my second monitor Radeon 7000 and my MarineAquarium Screen Saver won't work on that monitor now. Still fine on stock Nvidia 4MX.
Don S.
G4 1GHZDP/ MacOS 10.2.1/ QT6 /1GHZ MB ram/ 320GBs/Canon XK1/SonyDVMC-DA1/NVIDIA 4MX/Radion 7000
(he later wrote)

- as a followup to my earlier report today about Marine Aquarium Screen Saver not owrking with my second Radion 7000 monitor, I downloaded and re-installed the 10.2.1 OSX update and it cured the problem...I presume it contained older ATI drivers. "


" I have a G4 500 Sawtooth with a Radeon 8500 running OSX 10.2.1 with Warcraft 1.03. I experienced no glitches after applying the new Oct 2002 drivers, in fact, I had slightly improved performance, mostly in the zooming feature.
David D. "


" Well, I installed the Oct 2002 update on my G4 500, MacRadeon 32MB, 1.5 GB RAM, OS X.2.1 (6D52)

It appears speed has improved. But Oh Joy! I have a shadow on my cursor! Yes! I was envious of my wife's FP iMac and her fancy shadow on her cursor- now I'm just as cool.

Seriously though, so far it appears to be a very useful update, with noticeable improvement in the GUI on X.2.
--
Regards,
Hector M. "


" Hello Mike,
A retired teacher I know told me that his Xclaim VR 128 now synchronizes the sound correctly with the video in this version under Mac OS 9.2.2. The previous versions never works correctly for him. Furthermore, the video controls are different from the previous versions. He has not tried the video out and the video capture yet. He has not installed it on Mac OS X.

All this is alluded to in the Read Me. The changes could have been described better.
He has a G4 500MHz AGP.
Regards,
Ronald L. "


" Mike:
Thanks as always for your stupendous site! Just installed the October Ati update on my G4/AGP Radeon System, just a couple of noticable differences.
The famous 3D cursor of Jaguar has finally arrived; for some reason it did not display with a drop shadow under the stock Apple 10.2 drivers.

Of more technical interest is that the display menu no longer shows refresh rates above 75Hz for my 17" Apple Studio Display (CRT/VGA). The displays preference panel shows rates up to 100Hz for 1024x768, not sure why the menu doesn't, I have the "show recommended" box checked so it's not that these are "unrecommended." I'm back at 85Hz, my standard (it set it to 75 when I first booted under the new drivers). Very odd.
Dual monitor setup, the other driven by the perpetually driverless Matrox RTMac.
Joe B.
G4/450 (AGP Graphics) 640MB RAM, OS 10.2.1,
Retail Radeon AGP (original 32MB card)
Matrox RTMac "


" Hi Mike,
I've got a new 700mhz iBook running Jaguar. After installing the drivers with ATI's latest update. WarCraft 3 went totally nuts on me. The acceleration for the finder was fine, but WarCraft 3 totally spazed out. I tried all the resolutions and settings and it didn't work for any of them. This iBook has the latest 16mb ATI card that is offered. I figured I'd warn you and everyone else about this.
-Jeremy
P.S. I'm sorry but I reinstalled 10.2 before I could test Quake 3 and see if that worked with the update. "

This is the Radeon Mobility chip (latest ATI chip in the new iBooks). An ibook owner in the forums didn't note any problems but not sure he ran WCIII. The Radeon mobility is also in the fall 2001 PowerBook G4s.


" Mike,
Have had NO probems whatsoever here with the update on a B&W/450, Radeon 7000, Jag + 9.2.2, 1GB ram & 17" CRT Studio display.
ps..... I dont play games, though, but do alot of PS/ILL/web work :)
keep up the great site work, an invaluable resource to many :D
Rodney "


" No problems after the update so far running a Radeon 8500 Mac Edition with a dual display setup in a G4 MDD 867, 512 MB RAM, OS X 10.2.1. I tried Warcraft 3 (1.03) and Quake 3 Arena 1.32. Warcraft 3 seems to run a bit smoother, framerates in Quake 3 didn‘t improve...
Froemps "



(info from previous news pages follow)

There's a general forum thread on the update with some initial reports from various Mac owners. A PowerBook G4/800 owner noted no problems with WCIII after the update however users of PCI Radeon 7000 cards have reported image problems with Warcraft III. There's also another thread from a Yikes owner w/7000 card on the same issue with WCIII.
(Note - This is reportedly a 7000 card driver specific bug - the next update is to fix this problem. Other ATI card models should show improved performance in WCIII based on reports.)
Here's two sample reports from Radeon 7000 PCI on the WCIII issue:

" Installed the update on my Beige G3 updated with G4 466 and a ATI 7000 (OS X 10.2.1). Quartz extreme NOT enabled via PCI hack. Now the video in Warcraft III is all screwed up. Not sure how to explain it but everything was the same color. The colors they would flicker in and out Green, Yellow, Red. Sometimes it would look fine but only for a second. Made the game very hard to play. Just a word of caution to others.
Martin S. "

Another 7000 card owner also noted WCIII problems:

" Mike,
I dont know if others are experiencing this, but the ATI update has made Warcraft III lose textures, and create some weird lighting problems. The game runs, but now has many display problems. Quake3 runs fine, and so does Return to Castle Wolfenstein. My machine is a B&W G3 w/G4-550@600MHz, 384MB RAM, ATI Radeon7000 PCI, OS X 10.2.1, with the warcraft 1.03 update. Is there a way to revert back to the old drivers that came with OS X? Those seemed to work fine....
Thanks, Christopher "

I don't think the July 2002 update will install in OS X 10.2 (the installer checks the OS X version usually based on past history with ATI updaters for OS X.) Note - one reader later wrote the July 2002 updater did install in 10.2, but I'm not going to test that personally. ATI had commented in the past that the installer checks of OS X versions were to prevent possible problems with future OS X versions that could have components like Opengl, etc. changed.) There may be a way to manually remove the update/reinstall the ATI drivers from the OS X 10.2 CD. Pacifist is a popular utility for extracting the DVD player, etc. from OS X CDs but have not used it personally.
I welcome other tips, reports (pros or cons) on the update. Include as much detail as possible on your Mac model, graphics card and OS/software.

(BTW - If you've having problems downloading from the ATI site, readers sent a links to mirros of the update at http://maczone.free.fr/ati/radeon-0210.hqx and www.extremesims.com)



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