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1/16/02 Wednesday's News: Story DetailReturn to News Page

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Reader Reports on Mac Radeon 7000 Graphics Card
Published: 1/16/2002
Last Updated: 1/29/2003 (for revised 208 rom flasher info)
(prev. updates added more owner comments)


Revised 208 ROM Update Posted: (from the Jan. 29th, 2003 www.xlr8yourmac.com news page) For those that had a failure of their board and didn't get the revised flasher direct from Bruno of ATI. No change in actual ROM code for those that flashed 208 successfully with the first release.

"Hey Mike.
The new revision of the installer for the RADEON 7000 Firmware has been put up on the site. If someone has previously downlaoded and applied the first ROM 208 updater they do not need to download again. This revision is simply intended to update the installer to work around a conflict with a third party extension as previously reported and to allow the re-flashing of cards that have been blanked (either due to the mentioned problem or something like a power failure).
A direct link to the download page:
www.ati.com/support/drivers/mac/ati-radeon7000-mac-rom-208.html
Bruno
(ATI)"

So far one report of a problem (OS X won't boot) using the latest flash version. See Jan 30th, 2003 news page.
(older info follows)
Reason for 208 ROM Update Failures? (from the Jan. 23, 2003 www.xlr8yourmac.com news page) I received a mail from Bruno of ATI on what he's determined the cause of the failure was. (I had forwarded him all the past reader emails with failures which he has taken care of with a revised flasher to restore the card function.)

" Kensington extensions from their Mouseworks 5.7 OS 9 software are causing the flasher portion of the ROM update to crash. The crash is because a certain system drawing function is hanging. We don't know why, but it would indicate that this Kensington extension is somehow patching into that system call. If in doubt, disable all Kensington extensions during the update. We will have a new flasher package up on the website this week however. That package also has the capability to fix previously blanked cards. Info is outlined in the update's readme. Everyone should read the readme file for this update.
Bruno
ATI"

ATI previously updated the 208 ROM update page to link to a Tech Note on the failed flashes, which included info to contact support for those that had the problem. I'll post a note here when the revised flasher is online for those that have not updated yet or still need a revised flasher to fix a past failure.

208 ROM Update for Radeon 7000 PCI improves LCD Display Support: (See above for later info/revised flasher)
* NOTE/Warning * - for those that did not read the Dec. 19th news page update, or the later notes in the main news pages in December, I received more than a dozen reports total of card failures after trying to flash the 208 update posted Dec. 19th. I forwarded all these failure mails to an ATI contact who has helped (with a revised flasher) get some resurrected, but not all. Although I had at least as many OK reports as failures, it is not at all normal to have anywhere near that number of problem reports from a firmware update, so If you have not already flashed your 7000 card - I would not do so until there's a revised flasher available. (And even then I'd wait for feedback/reports on it.) Remember also the rule of firmware updates - if it does not affect your use of the card and you're not having problems currently, leave well enough alone.
ATI has now posted a Tech note on this problem at http://www.ati.com:80/support/infobase/4118.html but basically it just notes to contact customer support.

(original info from the first Dec. 19th, 2002 www.xlr8yourmac.com news page post.)
RADEON 7000 Mac ROM v208 Update with the following info:

" RADEON 7000 Mac ROM v208 Update
Requirements: Mac OS 9.x or Mac OS 10.2 or higher
Supports: RADEON 7000 MAC EDITION
Download Filename: R7000-ROM-208.hqx
File Size: 1.6 MB, Posted: 12/17/2002
Release Notes

Reported Issues
* Simulscan resolutions listed differently in Mac OS X using RADEON 7000 Mac ROM v208 Update

Here's a clip (not all info) from the Release Notes:

"Release Notes
This update brings the retail RADEON 7000 board firmware up to date with the latest enhancements introduced with ATI's other retail board products.
Enhanced resolution/mode support for newer monitors with DDC (Display Data Channel) information. Provides expanded mode lists with useful ranges of refresh rates. Support added for VESA Generalized Timing Formula (GTF).

Expanded NON-DDC mode lists
Non DDC mode list expanded to include a wider range of refresh rates at resolutions up to 2048x1536. Displays lacking DDC include older models as well as professional series displas with BNC connections. Refresh rates of up to 200Hz are supported at some resolutions. Please see the section below for Mode Tables.

Digital Flat Panel Extended Support
Version 208 of the RADEON 7000 Mac Edition firmware offers higher resolution support and corrects issues some customers were having with specific LCD brands/models. Some specific models affected include: Apple Cinema HD (23" LCD with DVI adapter), Dell 2000FP (20" DVI LCD) and Formac Gallery (17" & 20" LCDs with DVI adapter).

10 Bit Gamma & Color Look Up Table (CLUT) Improvements
Full and accurate support is provided for 10-bit color spaces and gamma curves. This offers a more versatile and smoother gradation for displa calibration and special-purpose imaging.

Support for Mac OS X's "Detect Displays" Feature
By using the Detect Displays feature in Mac OS X's Displays preferences, a new display connection can be made and activated without restarting the computer. example: While using a CRT or LCD, connect a TV to the RADEON 7000 and then select the Detect Displays command. The TV is now recognized as a secondary display and its resolution options are available in the Displays preferences and title bar menu. "

See the full release notes page for details on Simulscan modes. (I didn't see any firmware update for the previous (no longer made) Radeon PCI model this morning, but there may be one later.)

Here's the _first_ Radeon 7000 owner report on the update the day it was released:

ATI has released a new bios for the Radeon 7000 Mac Edition video card that supports m KL-W9000's widescreen modes and are available in Mac OS X and Mac OS 9. The new bios is available from ATI's site.
After flashing to the 208 bios, I now get 720x480, 864x484, and 1072x603, in addition to 1376x768 and 1376x774. 640x360 is also listed, but doesn't work with m KL-W9000 as I get an "Out of Range" error. These are all 60Hz and the widescreen modes are built from the monitor's built-in DDC info. In addition, the bios adds support for 1920x1080 up to 120Hz.
I'm not sure if other displays, such as widescreen plasmas and projectors, will have better support with this new bios, but this allows me to get very good DVD playback with widescreen modes plus be able to use the display for readable web browsing.
Dennis"

Note: One German MacOS user noted today (Dec. 19th) he had a problem with the flasher - his card no longer worked after the flash attempt. (Update - in the days following, there were many more reports of failures as mentioned in the news page.)

ATI Oct. 29th, 2002 Driver Update (OS 9 and OS X) See this page for info/links.

July 2002 Driver Update for OS X 10.1.5/OS 9.x On July 15th, ATI posted another driver update for OS X 10.1.5/OS 9.x - see the July 2002 update page. See the Release Notes for more info- note the mention of PCI Radeon performance improvements (but the most benefit will be seen with the pre-7000 Radeon PCI, which is a higher 3D performance graphics chip than the one used in the 7000 Radeon card.)

    " Improved RADEON PCI & RADEON 7000 performance Recent changes and optimizations will show substantial performance improvements in most applications. These changes apply to both 3D and 2D content (example: Quake 3 improvements in frame rates of up to 30% for RADEON PCI, depending on system and game configuration). "

See the Release Notes for a complete listing of changes and notes on OS 9 OpenGL/QD3D versions, FSAA and Anisotropic Filtering support for Radeon series cards (requires support in the game), etc.

(Previous driver update info follows - the above update however should include all the latest fixes/changes - so no need to install the June 2002 update or the Installer update from May.)
Note: I've had a Radeon 7000 owner say the later updates solved the corrupted video after wake from sleep in OS X that was seen w/10.1.5 (before the June/July driver updates).

Radeon 7000 and OS X/Beige G3 working after 10.1.5 Update: The issue of the Radeon 7000 card not working in OS X with Beige G3 and older Macs apparently has been fixed by the OS X 10.1.5 update (released 6/4/2002). Here's the first Radeon 7000/Beige G3 owner reader comments:

    " Hi, The 10.1.5 update does fix Radeon 7000 problem with the beige Macs. My last post appears on your Radeon 7000 page. [this page.-Mike]
    Tom D. "

An 8600 owner also noted that the 7000 card worked after the 10.1.5 update.
*Note* - all reports so far from 10.1.5 users with the 7000 card report corrupted screens after wake from sleep however. The OS X 10.1.5 feedback page has these and other reports on 10.1.5. [NOTE: The ATI June 2002 update released 6/24/2002 is said to solve this issue.]

Beige G3 and Earlier Macs Note on OS X InCompatibility w/7000 Card: [As noted above, the 10.1.5 update released 6/4/2002 solves this issue per a reader report. Previous comments below were from OS X 10.1.4 and earlier.] Since the first post of owner reports here in mid-January, there have been problems noted with OS X (no video) from owners of Beige G3 and earlier Mac models. (B&W G3 and later owners reported running OS X with the card fine). ATI has been aware of this issue since it was posted here last month (see reports below) and has revised the 7000's compatibility info to note the Beige G3 and earlier OS X issue. See this ATI page for more details see http://support.ati.com/infobase/3986.html (NOTE: this page link is now working again as of April 22nd, 2002. I noted here first in Feb 2002 and then in March 2002 the link no longer worked - now it's working again.). For Beige G3 and earlier/older Mac owners that bought the card for OS X use, that page notes they suggest returning the card. That page has a note that holds some hope however for a future OS X update that may fix this issue with Beige G3s and older Macs:

    "Apple and ATI are working together to determine if this issue can be resolved. It may be resolved in a future update to Mac OS X. Check the Software Update applet in System Preferences for any Mac OS X updates as they become available."

Note: One reader later wrote that he was able to get the card working in OS X with a Beige G3 (with one monitor) by removing all the ATI named drivers in OS X. See this report. However no other reports said that worked. Also there's reportedly a patch in the works for the issue noted by some owners running two VGA monitors in other Systems (using the DVI-I/VGA adapter). [One reader noted getting a beta update from ATI.]


The Radeon 7000 PCI (dual output) card was announced at MWSF (reportedly the same as the Radeon VE card I saw at MWNY but never released). Here's the first reader report on the Radeon 7000 to date (dated Jan. 16th, 2002, see below for other/later owner comments).

"Hi there,
It looks like I may be one of the first owners of a RADEON 7000 Mac Edition PCI. Typically, I wait until others review hardware before I purchase. But, considering how long ATI worked on this product, I figured it would be bullet-proof when it was released, not for me!

I put the card into my Beige G3 MT (G4/540, $77D.45F1), replacing an ATI Rage 128 borrowed from a B&W G3. Although the 7000 seems to work well with OS 9.2.2 (I've done no benchmarks as yet), it will not allow my system to boot into 10.1.2. In my attempts to troubleshoot this issue, I also found that I cannot enter the open firmware console when the card is installed, even if my monitor is connected to the built-in Rage Pro.

When OS X is selected in the System Disk 3.3 control panel and the Mac is rebooted, the monitor will briefly indicate a signal being received. Seconds after that, the monitor then returns to its sleep state and no other activity takes place on the system (no hard drive, ect).

Considering the open firmware problem, and that OS X does not even begin to load, I believe this is a problem with the ROM on the RADEON 7000 (ASP: Card ROM#: 113-85501-119) not liking my computer. Although my bus clock is set to 83Mhz, the PCI clock is still at 33Mhz, so I doubt that overclocking is the cause of this issue.

You might want to caution other Beige G3 owners in case this is a widespread problem. If you wish, I can follow up with any resolution I find.
Regards,
Lyle M.
Frederick, MD "

I asked Lyle if he had tried copying any ROM xtender file to OS X as noted in past articles and ATI Readme files (see the blue text in this article.) However I would suspect the 7000 to have an updated ROM onboard and not need any ROM xtender (patch) files. I also asked if the CD in the box had any readme/files about OS X support and if he had disconnected any Mac/VGA adapters from the onboard video (that usually causes a problem at boot even in any version of the MacOS however if there's no monitor connected to the onboard video.) I don't have a Radeon 7000 or know what drivers are on the CD - but there is a driver listing for it at ATI's web site. (Perhaps only OS 9 I suspect, I have not checked it since I don't have the card.)

Note: Since the original (first) Beige G3/OS X problem post, there have been a number of other Beige G3 owners with the 7000 card reporting the same problems with OS X (see below), although they noted OS 9.2.x ran fine with the card.

Other Radeon 7000 Mac Edition Owner Comments: (latest reports first)

Two Radeon 7000 Owners report 8500 Drivers Fixed Dual Monitor Problems In the last week since posting the download link to the 8500 1.0 drivers, I've had three Radeon 7000 (PCI) card owners note that installing these drivers in OS 9 (which have extensions for other ATI card models) solved problems they had running 2 displays with the 7000 card. Here's comments from owners of the 7000 card in Beige G3s, a Umax S900 and a 9500.

    " Hi Mike:
    Wrote you once before about my initial experience with a Radeon 7000 video card in a Beige G3 266 Desktop.

    Read the report this morning about using the Radeon 8500 drivers and tried it once I got home. It works!

    Before I was not able to run 2 VGA monitors (using supplied DVI-to-VGA adaptor for the second monitor on the same card). The second monitor would be recognized, but there would be no picture. No amount of changing of resolutions or changing of monitors made any difference.

    However, after applying the new Radeon 8500 drivers to essentially the same system as before, the second monitor started up and worked seamlessly.

    I have no idea if the Beige G3 - OSX boot problem is addressed by this workaround as well as I do not yet have OSX. Hopefully someone else with a beige G3 will be able to give it a whirl and let us all know.
    jason s. "

I hear the dual head card/OS X issue with Beige G3 and older Macs needs an OS X update, but not sure that is really true. If anyone tries the 8500 drivers (which install some 8500 specific files though) with a Beige G3 or earlier Mac and a 7000 card, if they let me know I'll post their results.

    " Concerning Mac Radeon 7000 Graphics Card and dual output with DVI to VGA converter:

    Just installed the new Radeon 8500 Installer over the 7000 one and guess what? I now have the two VGA outputs on the 7000 working with a Sony 19" and an Applevision 750AV!
    I seriously hope this will help all 7000 owners!
    Thanks for your great usefull website, Patrick S.
    [I asked what Mac model he had-Mike]

    Tried the driver and the card on both a Umax S900 and an Apple 9500 with XLR8 G4 450 CPU. In the PCI Slots were the Radeon 7000 together with a miroMotion DC30 +, an Adaptec 2940U2W and an AudioMedia III from Digidesign. "

After the above report a 2nd S900 owner wrote about dual monitor problems - so I suggested the drive the 8500 drivers. He wrote that fixed the problem:

    "Hi Mike,
    Whatever it was, it worked. I have removed R-7000 driver and installed R-8500 driver and the UMAX S-900 runs both monitors of the same card. It does help to power up the second monitor (DVI-1 socket) after total boot up on primary monitor only. Anyway IT WORKS. Thank you so much!!!
    I am not sure I had to change the card driver but now - "if it is not broken don't mend it". Thanks again, I am ethernaly grateful.
    Manty"

The 8500 1.0 drivers were linked in the April 2nd news page. I wonder if the fix is due to the ROM extender file in the 8500 drivers. (If any 7000 owners with dual monitor problems tries extracting just that file and testing it with the 7000 drivers, let me know.)


    " I bought the Radeon 7000 to replace my stock Rage128 in my B&W G3/450. As I have no AGP slot, it's looking like this is best card I can find right now for gaming purposes.

    Installation in my 66mhz slot was a breeze. Since I'm running OS 9.0.4, I used Tomeviewer to extract OpenGL 1.2.2 and put it into my extensions folder. Works great. My first boot under the new card reset my 17" Studio Display back to 640x480, as your other readers reported. Once the system booted I simply changed it back to my prefered resolution with no problems. The card seemed to only offer marginal 2D performance increases. It was difficult to tell in general use. However, my Quake experience was completely altered. I general play I went from 18-55 fps (peaks at 100) to 50-100 (peaks at 130) fps using custom configs. Resolutions under 1024x768 were very quick and stable. Over that and it became more choppy and inconsistant. For those who are interested, using a custom config in a very low setting, I was able to coax 55-88 fps at 1600x1200 on my machine. It wasn't pretty, but it was suprisingly quick.

    Overall this has been an excellent addition for the price. It was a painless and transparent upgrade to my system, but packed a huge performance punch. Thanks for collecting all those user comments and running a fantastic site!
    -Pat"


Radeon 7000 with SGI LCD/Multi-Link Adapter: (last update 4/8/2002)

    " FYI, this is a followup. Despite the fog over whether or not the Radeon 7000 PCI supports 1600x1024, I went ahead and bought one plus a Multilink adapter for the SGI1600SW flat panel.

    This combo works just fine on both OS9 and OS X. Good-bye Formac Proformance 3. Good riddence. Not only is my system faster, it's quieter too as the Formac Proformance fan is a historically noisy one while the Radeon has no fan at all.

    And, the G4 low power sleep works now that the Proformance card is pulled (Formac claims they supported low power sleep but it was yet another Formac claim that turned out untrue). In fact, when the Proformance card is installed, ASP reports the Rage Pro 128 (that came in the G4) will prevent the system from low power sleep...
    Regards,
    Ernest
    [Update - he later wrote]

    Just a followup to say after a few days of usage on my Dual G4 500, the Radeon does not set the resolution properly after awakening from a sleep. The ATI displays program and the Monitors control panel report the display is set to 1600x1024 but it is really set to 1280x1024. Changing the resolution reulsts in the HW being "off by one" and power cycling the multilink has no effect. Only restarting the system will fix it. I reported the problem to ATI. Rats. ...
    Ernest "

See below for 2 previous reader reports on the SGI/Multilink adapter/7000.
(In reply to a question about compatibility in the www.xlr8yourmac.com news listing on 3/20/2002.)

    "Mike,
    I am currently using the Radeon 7000 in my Sawtooth G4/450 with the SGI 1600SW monitor (through the multilink adapter). I am using the DVI port on the video card; the standard DB-15 VGA port is currently unused (although it has been simultaneously attached to a VGA 15" flat screen as a test). I still have my Rage128 attached to a tube-based monitor for dual monitor support.
    The card & the monitor work great together. I use it primarily in OS X, but I believe it would work fine in OS 9. The monitor resolution is currently set at 1600x1024 (optimal), but it will also support 800x600, 1024x656, 1024x768, 1280x820, & 1280x1024.
    Thanks for operating one of the best Mac sites on the internet.
    Sincerely,
    Brett Sheppeard"

Another reader sent his test results in various configurations:

    " Mike,
    I had originally bought the Radeon 7000 for my G4 upgraded 9600 so I would have a DVI port to use with my SGI 17 inch widescreen and Multilink adapter. However, since I couldn't get the 9600 to boot into OS X with the Radeon 7000, I never attempted to try hooking up the SGI monitor. I have been using the SGI monitor with my Pismo Powerbook in closed clamshell mode. After reading your news page yesterday, I decided to try it. I attempted 5 different setups:

    1. SGI monitor connected via DVI with Multilink set to digital and 2nd analog monitor connected to VGA
    - Analog monitor worked fine, no picture on SGI although ATI card detected it properly.

    2. SGI monitor connected to DVI with Multilink set to digital
    - Picture on monitor, but 1600x1024 and 1280x1024 did not work properly. 1024x768 seemed to work.

    3. SGI monitor connected to DVI via ATI adapter with Multilink set to analog
    - No picture

    4. SGI monitor connected to VGA with Multilink set to analog - No picture

    5. SGI monitor connected to VGA with Multilink set to analog and 2nd analog monitor connected to DVI via ATI adapter
    - No picture on either monitor

    I didn't spend a lot of time troubleshooting the different setups, but it seems that the monitor does not like the Radeon 7000. I then plugged it back into my Powerbook, and it fired right up...
    Peter Lin "


    " [Note: Tom reported on 6/4/2002 that the OS X 10.1.5 update solved the problem.-Mike
    I know a lot of beige G3 users are waiting for someone else to test the Radeon 7000 and OS X. Well I gave it a shot took out the "other ATI" extensions and went as far as taking out the geforce extensions,but couldn't get it to work. The computer reconizes the card, but no video. I'm running 10.1.3 on a DT G3 rev B at 450mhz with a 33 mhz pci bus and 83 mhz bus I dunno how that guy got the Radeon to work, but I couldn't replicate the success. Has anyone else written in with a positve outcome?
    Thanks
    Tom D. "

No other reports of this working (see the net comment down for the last reply I've spotted in my over 6000 email inbox and growing - so it's possible I missed some other reports.)


    " Mike,
    Did Steve J send any further information regarding his method of getting a Radeon 7000 Mac Edition to work with the Beige G3 series? [No - unless I missed it in all the mails here. His original report was in a past news page and was added to this page (below) last week.-Mike]
    I have tried to use his workaround on three different systems (1 G3/266 (Rev A) with 256mb ram and OS 10.1.2; 1 G3/300 (Rev B) with 256mb ram and OS 10.1.2; and my own system: G3/500 (Rev A and B roms)with 768mb ram and OS 10.1.2), and was not able to get video on my monitor.

    Two other things that I noticed when working with my 7000 were very strange indeed.
    the 1st one was that I could only boot into OS X when my card was in the first slot of my Beige G3's motherboard (A1 according to System Profile). having the card in either of the other slots would cause a lock up during startup or else result in a black screen.

    the 2nd one was even more unusual. I had my card in the C1 slot and as usual, the system froze up. I decided to give up for a while and proceeded to shut down my system so I could reboot. However, this time I attached my monitor (Apple MultiScan 17) to the built-in video port before I pushed my power button. I was very surprised to not only get a picture on my monitor, but to also notice that the system finished booting up to the login screen! Sadly I have not been able to duplicate this incident.
    Joel
    he later wrote
    here is a hint to your readers.
    If OS X does not want to boot up with a Radeon 7000 ME installed in a PCI slot while using the built in video port, try attaching the included Apple to VGA adapter or VGA to DV-I adapter.

    I attached the mac to vga adapter and now my Beige G3 does not lock up during boot up AND my Belkin 2-port USB card works, allowing my Supra Express 56k USB modem to be acknowledged by the system. "

An old tip for 'headless' (no monitor) servers that I use is to connect a Mac/VGA adapter to the video port (that makes the mac think there is a monitor attached .)


" Mike, I haven't seen this solution posted on your site...

I bought a Radeon 7000 PCI for a client who needed to run OS X on a Beige G3 and wanted accelerated graphics. Well I didn't discover until after the installation that ATI had retracted their statement on the box saying that it would work with the Beige G3. [Note - the issue with OS X and Beige G3 and earlier macs was noted on this article and the main news page several times since January 2002 when the card first started shipping-Mike]
Anyway, I was determined so I spent way too much time working on the issue and finally got it to work!

I had to do the following:

--install the card and the ATI software
--boot from the internal video and enable root access if you haven't already
--log in as root
[or boot to OS 9 to remove files without permissions issues-Mike]
--go to system/Library/extensions
--remove all the extensions beginning with ATI and not including 'Radeon' in the name (sorry I've forgotten the exact names) this will be about 6 to 7 extensions with rage128 and ragepro in the names
--log out and back in with your usual user account.
--make sure that "Show displays in menu bar" is checked in the Displays system preference panel (if you don't do this step, then when you try to change the monitors resolution in "Displays", system prefs will crash.
--shut down, attach your monitor to the Radeon card and start up.

This worked for me. I didn't try to use two monitors on the Radeon 7000 card, nor did I try to use the video out, but it works to operate a single monitor under MacOS X with accelerated video.
Steve J. "

Just a FYI - OS X 10.1.3 according to a contact I have does not fix the issues of the 7000 dual monitor card and OS X on Beige G3 and earlier macs. (reportedly an issue with any dual output card, hopefully one that will be fixed in a later OS X/driver update.) [One reader later noted removing all ATI named drivers from OS X manually allowed the card to work, at least as a single monitor card, in OS X with his Beige G3.]


" My system specs:
PowerMac 7500
XLR8 Mach G3/400
256MB 60ns FPM DIMMs
Seagate Barracuda 9GB
Radeon7000 32MB PCI
Mac OS 9.1.1
QuicktimePro 5.0
OpenGL 1.2.4 (how can that be on OS 9.1?
(use Tomeviewer or copying files from a later mac.-Mike)

I just installed the 7000 PCI. Though it was a tight fit, it went into my 7500 without modifications. (note: the bottom VGA adapter port screw-hole is low on the card and may interfere with 7500 case slot opening).

ATI falsely states (on the retail packaging) that this card has a system requirement minimum of Mac OS 9.0. [See the coments here from ATI on the requirements of OpenGL version from 9.2.2 and also the notes on OS X compat.-Mike] Great for me, or so I thought. I'm running OS 9.1.1. Unfortunately, the ATI software drivers won't load because my computer doesn't possess OpenGL 1.2.2... a version that only comes as a part of the 9.2.x system update. [noted last month here-Mike My computer won't accept 9.2, which is to say nothing of OS X. 9.2 should run it just fine on my box but Apple is not going to let it happen apparently. [Note - tomeviewer can be used to extract extensions from installers for systems where the installer won't run and you do not have a later mac to copy the files from.-Mike

My workaround was this. I found a modern OS X mac and simply copied it's OS 9.2 OpenGL extensions (in this case OpenGL 1.2.4) onto a CDRW and brought them back to my system and put them into my extensions folder. It worked. I was able to install the ATI drivers and the control panel.

Unfortunately, my FPS scores are not what I was expecting. I run Quake3 at about 30 - 35 FPS. 800x600 / 1024x768, med to med-low settings with only High Quality Sky: ON and Idenitfy Target: ON, in Game Options. I'm inclined to assume that performance is limited to my 33MHz PCI bus, 50MHz system bus, G3/400UPG and slow FPM memory.

Bottomline: I'm going to keep this card. This is my last upgrade before I finally break down and get a modern G4. The good part is that I found this card at a great price using www.pricegrabber.com . I happened to go with www.enpc.com [Pricemac.com a few weeks back found it for under $110, retail package. (there is no OEM Radeon 7000s for the Mac - all are retail box w/adapters, etc.-Mike] for this purchase and paid $119 for the Mac Edition retail package (which happens to come with all sorts of adapters (Apple to VGA, VGA-DVI converter, S-video cable, S-video to composite cable, video composite cable). Caution: This company speaks very, very poor English. If you need warm-n-fuzzy or technical customer service, forget about it and go elsewhere.
Earl F "


" I just installed a new Radeon 7000 that I received as a gift into my B&W G3 series (1 GB/ OWC G4 500mhz). I replaced my aged Rage128 in the 66mhz PCI slot. Installation went smoothly as did booting into both OS 9.2.2 and X.1.2. One problem I've been having, however, is that I am getting very slight image ghosting at higher resolutions on my 19" Radius L-1 connected to the VGA port of the card. This occurs under both OS 9 and X and, while not severe, is irritating especially since my Rage128 does not exhibit this problem. I have tried everything including running the monitor off of the DVI port with the included adapter (which exhibits the same symptom, but worse since the adapter seems to introduce some "fuzziness" into the image). Unfortunately, the L-1 is the only monitor I have and I've only got one VGA cable as well (a fairly long one- probably 5'- could this be the problem?). I'm wondering whether my card could be defective since no one else seems to be experiencing this issue. I've emailed ATI a problem report and will let you know what I find out. Thanks for your excellent site!
Rod D. "


" Hi Mike:
Just installed 2 Radeon 7000's: one in my Dad's computer, one in my own. However, I should have read your page on the problems with the 7000 before I bought it for myself....then again maybe not...what other options do we have right now for a relatively cheap PCI card with good performance?

At any rate, I bought the card for myself specifically to run dual monitors (replacing on-board video and 3dfx Voodoo 3 2000 combo in a Beige G3) with the hopes that ATI would later solve the apparent ROM problem that prevents booting in OSX with this card in a beige G3.

It does NOT run dual monitors on a beige G3 in 9.2.2. Upon a closer reading of their reports this seems to be a common element among those beige G3 users who have reported their experience on your page. [That's not really true - last month there was a beige G3 owner noting running 2 montors on the card in this report.-Mike]

It does work nicely running a single monitor, and I can't test with OSX since I don't have it.....but I doubt my experience will be any different than other beige G3 users.

While I am happy with ATI for offering what is currently the ONLY cheap option for older macs with only PCI slots to upgrade their video, it really does not seem like they bothered to test this card in many older computers. I mean, how could they not test this card in a beige G3? Did they really think that wasn't a part of the target market for a card like this?

At any rate, I have send tech report to ATI and we will see what they have to say....
jason s. "

Jason later wrote that he had problems running two VGA monitors at once (using the DVI-I adapter to run a 2nd VGA monitor off the DVI port.)


" Hey Mike,
I just installed an ATI Radeon 7000 PCI Mac Edition in my B&W G3/300 Yosemite Rev. A. My system has been upgraded with an XLR8 G3/466 ZIF card OC'ed to 500mHz. I upgraded the OS to 9.2.2 in anticipation of installing the Radeon 7000. Installation was a breeze. As was the driver software. I Combined with the XLR8 ZIF card, I now get 42fps in the UT Cityintro flyby and an average of about 20fps with the Wicked400 benchmark. That's about a 30% to 40% jump in framerate before the 7000 was added.

QT playback is great. The only thing is I can't figure out how to get DVD's to play! The OEM ATI Rage 128 card had the DVD hardware daughtercard. DVD player now says that hardware is missing. I tried the 9.2 DVD player and that doesn't work either. Am I missing something? The forums don't mention this.
Thanks for the great work on the site. I check it everyday!
Nobbie "


" Hello Mike,
I have a Radeon 7000 ME [mac edition] installed in my G4 dual 450, and I am running 3 monitors total. I am running one Samsung 753 17" monitor off the AGP Rage 128 Pro that came installed with the Mac. I am running another Samsung 753 17” monitor off the Radeon svga port, and I am also using the Radeon's s-video Mac-2TV connected to an NTSC monitor. I am running OS 9.2.2, and have 768 megs of RAM.

I got this card because I want to use the s-video output with Final Cut Pro 3, and I want to stretch the FCP timeline across the two Samsung monitors. But I am having a problem with the computer crashing when I have the FCP timeline stretched across the two Samsung monitors and I scroll through the timelime with the zoom slider. Also, after I have played some video and then close windows or move them around on both Radeon monitors, the windows appear to erase the desktop pattern background, leaving a lot of black, blue, and green lines. I have the resolution set to 1024x768 on both Samsung monitors, and all monitors are set to millions of colors.

I have had email correspondence with ATI, I did get their Mac troubleshooting tips list. It recommends turning off 2d graphics acceleration as one of the tips. When I turn off 2d graphics acceleration my Mac no longer crashes. However, all my windows scroll very slowly on all three monitors! I am waiting to hear back from ATI to see if there may be another 2d graphics accelerator driver available, or some other solution to this problem.

I hope this can be resolved. I like the NTSC output of the Radeon, it's great for outputting slide shows and quicktime movies to tape as well as being able to watch FCP 3 real-time previews on a TV. But it will be hard to live without 2d graphics acceleration.
Jeff M. "


" Well, I'm stymied. After reading reports on your site that the Radeon 7000 will work on beige G3's running 9.2.x, I bought one and installed it in my beige G3/466, OS 9.2.1 (also tried 9.2.2). The VGA output works, as does the TV output, but the DVI output, utilizing the supplied DVI to VGA converter doesn't work. I have two flat panel displays (15” 1024x768) attached, and the ATI control panel can “see” the two monitors by name (it picks up the plug and play model name, and displays both names in the Monitors control panel), but I don't get a picture on the one connected to the DVI to VGA adapter. I tried calling ATI but gave up after 45 minutes on hold. I called the dealer who sold me the card (Clubmac), and the tech told me that the card is not compatible with beige G3's. I told him that I was pretty sure that he was thinking of the OS X issues, but he didn't know anything about that.

Reasoning that others have gotten it to work, I figured the adapter that ATI supplied might be bad. I then ordered a DVI-A [DVI-I I suspect, which has analog video connections in the connector. -Mike] to VGA cable, but still no luck. Perhaps I got a bad card, I don't know. Bummer.
he later wrote]
Mike, thanks so much for forwarding my email to ATI tech support. Bruno Fernandez of ATI contacted me immediately afterwards, and, after some testing on my part, he emailed me a software patch yesterday. If others with beige G3's are having this problem (no DVI output), they should know that a fix is available (though apparently not made public yet).
I'm very impressed with ATI's tech support.
Thanks again for the great site.
Jim W. "


" Hi Mike
First off, the site is excellent.
I seem to have a situation that I haven't seen reported on your site yet. I'm running a radeon 7000 in a 7500 (val 4) with a sonnet g3/500/1Mb and 192Mb ram, OS 9.1. Upon installing the card, everything was great and sometime after (perhaps a few hours) the system has developed some screen artifacts and shadowing. Specifically. I generally see a blue or purple vertical line running parallel with the right side of the active window (or menu) if that window is directly on the desktop and kind of a shadow if on top of another window. I sometimes see other shadows as well, but these are the most prominent. I'll attach a couple of screen shots to show this. Aside from that, the machine seems to be about as stable as a 7500 can be and the card has more resolutions than my monitor can handle (Compaq QVision 200 -- got it dirt cheap).
Bob "


" Hi Mike :)
I finally got my 7000 and got it installed, my report is as follows:
Config:
B&W G3/400
896 PC-100
WD 5400rpm 30gig
Apple OEM 6gig
OEM DVD drive
TDK VeloCD 16/10/40 in OWC FW case
Various other peripherals :)

2d finder acceleration isn't as great as I was hoping, but judging from my CPU monitor it's a CPU speed issue. Playing dvd's now takes about 30% CPU usage (as opposed to around 90% before). I played Deimos Rising in a window and got my ass kicked because it runs so bloody fast.

Other than that, I can scroll pages like xlr8yourmac.com's homepage from top to bottom without seeing a spinning beachball. It's far from *smooth*, but it's consistant and no slow down. Pages and graphics also seem to render MUCH faster than before :)

I FINALLY found one on pcstop.com after a pricewatch.com search. I ordered it Wednesday for $108 ($117 after shipping) and it got here around 4pm today. It's been well worth the price for the DVD performance boost alone, but I really was hoping for a little better 2d acceleration. I've read the Rage 128's and up are going to be accelerated in 10.2, so I'm hoping performance of this beast will increase as well.

I was impressed with the ease of installation. I installed the drivers *before* installing the card, shut down, swapped the card, and booted to X just like normal. I did have to resize from 800x600 to my 1600x1200, but it was no biggie.

The card doesn't come with any neat games or "look what we can do" type software, just the drivers on the CD Rom and *several* adapters for the various outputs. There's a Old style 15pin Mac to VGA and DVI-I to VGA adapters (handy for running dual VGA monitors, which I've not tested *yet*) as well as S-Video to S-Video, S-Video to RCA (female), and RCA male to RCA male cables.

It's nice to know that for the price I've gotten a card that can display on any combination of 2 monitors or TV, and about 30% desktop and 60% dvd performance increase for less than $120. OWC (macsales.com) has G4/450 (adjustable even) upgrade CPU's for $249.

Not bad considering one could upgrade to a speedy G4 and 32meg card as great as this one for less than $360 (before shipping).

Thanks for such a GREAT site!!!!!!! I couldn't have enjoyed this near as quickly without the research your site provided :)
Brent R. "


" Hey Mike:
Great job following the Radeon 7000 issue for us......
As soon as I saw that the revised spec was posted, I called ATI. The tech told me that the problem was because the Radeon 7000 Mac was a two headed video card, supporting 2 monitors at once. ATI and Apple may fix it in upcoming OSX Updates...

So I asked him if other Radeons will work (8500, Radeon, etc.), and he assured me that they would work fine in the beige G3/OSX combo...In fact the ATI drivers are part of the default install of OSX 10.1..
Thanks for the help....
Andrew "


" Hi, Great to have all these reports on new hardware. I have one of the new ATI Radeon 7000 pci cards and it works very well in my B&W G4/500 machine under OSX, haven't even booted into 9, for a while actually. The only problem I have seen so far is with iTunes and full screen visuals.
When using this mode I get a split screen double image. Identical images one high, one low on the screen with a black separator in between. Has anyone else seen this phenomenon? Different size settings just change the size of the images, but there are still two.
Thanks.
Alex "

I asked him if the 10.1.3 updated helped this problem - I don't remember any other problems like his before.


" Mike,
Last week, I replaced my ATI PCI Radeon and ATI Xclaim VR Rage Pro with a Radeon 7000, selling my PCI Radeon to a friend with a Beige G3. I also have an OEM AGP Radeon in my G4/450MP for a total of three displays. I have three displays -- an Apple Multiscan 20, which is my main display, a 19-inch Sony Multiscan 400PS, and a 50-inch widescreen Sony KL-W9000 LCD rear projection monitor.

I have been using my AGP Radeon with the Sony KL-W9000, which provides me with one 16x9 resolution, 1376x768, built dynamically from the DDC information. This resolution is also available with my Tibook/667 with Radeon Mobility video, but was flaky with the PCI Radeon before I flashed it earlier this month; the resolution would show up under 9.x, but only if I zapped the PRAM on startup.

My hope was to use the KL-W9000 with the Radeon 7000 so that I could use the Apple Multiscan 20 with the presumably faster AGP Radeon. But there's some weirdness going on with how the video card deals with DDC information when using two analog displays with the included DVI-VGA and VGA-Mac adapters. When the KL-W9000 is connected to the VGA out of the Radeon 7000, the 1376x768 resolution is available, but the Sony Multiscan 400PS is also limited to the same resolutions as the KL-W9000, including 1376x768. The highest 4x3 resolution available is 1024x768@60Hz on the Multiscan 400PS, which causes some bad flickering. I normally run it at 1280@960@75Hz so this situation was unacceptable.

To work around the problem, I reverted the KL-W9000 back to the AGP Radeon and connected the Multiscan 20 to the VGA output using an identical ATI VGA-Mac adapter from my PCI Radeon. The Sony Multiscan 400PS is connected to the DVI output of the Radeon 7000 via a 5-BNC to Mac cable with the DVI-VGA adapter AND a VGA-Mac adapter so it's a tight fit with two of the Mac adapters, but does work. What's odd about this setup is that the available resolutions are different between the two displays, unlike when I had the KL-W9000's VGA cable plugged directly into the card.

On my Apple Multiscan 20, the following "recommended" resolutions are available:

    800x600@75Hz
    832x624@75Hz
    1024x768@75Hz
    1280x960@75Hz
    1280x1024@60Hz

On the Sony Multiscan 400PS with the DVI-VGA and VGA-Mac adapters, these "recommended" resolutions show up in the Monitors menu under Mac OS X 10.1.2:

    800x600@56,60,72,75,85,90,100,120Hz
    1024x768@56,60,72,75,85,90,100,120Hz
    1280x960@75Hz
    1280x1024@60,75,85Hz
    1600x1200@60,65,70,75,85Hz
    1792x1344@60,75Hz
    1856x1392@60,75Hz
    1920x1080@60,72Hz
    1920x1440@60Hz
    2048x1536@60Hz

So my original thought that whatever was available to the VGA monitor would be available to the display connected to the DVI connector would appear to be incorrect. (NOTE: if you're using a DVI to VGA adapter you're not using the DVI digital interface - you're actually using the analog (VGA) pins inside th DVI-I interface, so in theory you should have the same resolutions available as the VGA port.-Mike) Also, I was able to successfully try 1856x1392@60Hz with the Sony Multiscan 400PS so it appears that all of these resolutions might be available via the DVI output, instead of just 1600x1200 as noted in your report. (Again DVI to VGA adapters are not using the DVI digital interface - it's actually using Analog video pins inside the DVI connector.-Mike) Everything I tried above 1280x960 was a bit fuzzy. Interestingly enough, when I had the Sony Multiscan 400PS plugged directly into the Xclaim VR Rage Pro, the only resolution available was 1024x768@60Hz until I used a Griffin MacSync adapter.

Also, contrary to the website information about all the ATI cards, widescreen resolutions other than 1920x1080 are only available if the Monitor provides detailed timing information via DDC. So like all previous ATI cards, the Radeon 7000 has problems providing useful widescreen resolutions with legacy and modern analog projectors and HDTVs that support 856x480,864x480,1072x600 and 1280x720, all at 60Hz, since those resolutions aren't modes approved by Apple/ATI. My Voodoo 3 card supported the first three of those resolutions out of the box using the beta drivers written by Kenneth Dyke.

All my testing was done under Mac OS X 10.1.2 and Mac OS X Server 10.1.2. I only booted into 9.x long enough to install the Radeon 7000's drivers and didn't really note what resolutions were available under Mac OS 9 after I swapped out the connectors.
Dennis "


" I replaced an old IX-Micro Twin-Turbo 128 8M video card with the new ATI Radeon 7000 mac edition card and now I get either a System Hang or a Grey Screen crash on my main monitor if I use the ATI Displays Control panel and then try to change the Display Resolution or Color Depth for the secondary monitor (attached to the Radion 7000). My main monitor is controlled by an Apple OEM Radeon card that has never had any problems.

Also I noticed that after any of the above crashes the secondary monitor was reset to a different refresh rate that caused my monitor to emit a high pitched whine.

The System Hang is 100% reproducable (4 times so far).
Douglas G "

I asked what OS version, Mac system, and monitor he was running. As of Feb 24th, I've not seen a reply. [PLEASE save us both time by including details like this in your report. thanks.]


" Hi, Another report for your Radeon 7000 collection:
I got my new card in and installed it yesterday. A bit of an unusual setup, perhaps: it's in a 7600, with a Powerlogix ZForce card with a G3 at 300 MHz, running OS 9.1, the latest that will install on that machine without any tricks. I installed OpenGL 1.2.2 from 9.2.1, as the documentation suggests, as well as Quicktime 5 and the 'Jan 14 2002 ATI Retail Update' software on top of what comes with the card.
I haven't had a chance to benchmark any 3D stuff, but mostly I want it for its support for lots of screen real estate, for writing and programming. Another bit of confirmation for a question that's been asked in your comments about this card, though: its driving a Dell 2000FP via DVI, which is a 20" LCD screen, 1600x1200. So yes, in this case, 1600x1200 via the DVI interface works fine. I also had it running the monitor via the VGA cable, and that worked, too, though there was a little fuzziness in text as you move away from the center of the panel. But with the DVI driving it -- gorgeous!
I haven't calibrated the color on the panel yet (it's less important to me than lots of text that I can look at for hours on end); just subjectively, it's not as beautiful as Apple's 22" Cinema display, colorwise, but it is cheaper. At some point later I'll get a chance to try it in my Beige G3 with a G4 upgrade -- looking forward to reports that the drivers have been updated to work with OSX in the Beige.
Thanks for the site!
Dave C. "


" I thought I would write about my experience with two Radeon cards and my DVI flat panel. Here's my config:

PowerMac G4 Digital Audio 733 (the jan2001 model)
AGP Nvidia GeForce2mx (stock)
Mac OS 9 / 10.1.2 (OS doesn't matter for my testing, same problems either way)

Dell 20" Flat Panel w/DVI connection (it also has VGA, but all my notes here are regarding DVI).

If I connect the Dell 20" to the ADC connector of the stock Nvidia (via a Dr. Bott adapter), I get very bad 'pixel noise' at many resolutions, especially 1600x1200). This noise is not visible with VGA. Curiously enough, if I connect my Dell 17" flat panel via DVI, I get perfect picture up to the display's max 1280x1024.

I called Apple for support, and, as expected, they were useless and unwilling to help me at all with my '3rd party display', despite my AppleCare extended warranty (and despite the fact that this Dell display does not have ANY problems with the same resolution when connected to the Nvidia GeForce3 Ti200 card in my PC), and despite the fact that Apple SELLS the Dr. Bott adapter to connect third party DVI displays to G4's on the Apple Store web site. Arghh, typical Apple support "it's not our problem, please go away".

So, I bought an Original ATI Radeon for Macintosh PCI card (paid about US$200), thinking I would connect my 17" flat panel to the Nvidia, and the 20" to the Radeon, both via DVI, thus 'working around' the Nvidia problem. With my Dell 20" connected to the DVI port, I get perfect picture EXCEPT when using 1600x1200 (the max resolution of the 20" display). Same problem as the Nvidia from Apple, terrible 'pixel noise'. Now I was curious, what is causing this problem?

The next day, I found ATI Radeon PCI 7000 cards for around US$100, so I ordered one (with the intention of putting it in my old Beige G3). When it arrived, for kicks I stuck it in my G4 to test again with the Dell 20" flat panel via the DVI port. Despite the specs for this card saying that the DVI max resolution is 1024x768 (I know, this is a typo on their site), it worked great. I get 1600x1200 on my Dell 20" flat panel via DVI with PERFECT picture, no 'pixel noise'. Incidently, the manual does correctly list all the display modes available.

So, the card that I paid half the price for works better than the US$200 card. I tried for several days to get through to ATI (phone line busy, I finally had to call their main number and be transferred to their answering service for support). They never returned my call, so today I phoned again and got through. The tech support guy was very friendly, but unable to help. He claimed to have no knowledge of my problem, and, most irritatingly, had NO way to test my config (he had no DVI display on hand capable of viewing 1600x1200, only an Apple Cinema display, which only does 1600x1024). He offered to swap the card for an identical replacement, but agreed that another card would probably exhibit the same problem. He would not offer me a trade up to a better card that would correct what is obviously a problem with the Radeon PCI card, despite ATI's advertisement of functionality that didn't work. I am now trying to return the card to buy.com, under the pretense that it is NOT functioning as advertised, since it will not support its maximum rated resolution via DVI, as per the specs both in the manual and the web site.

Hopefully buy.com will let me return the card, if so, i'll probably buy another Radeon 7000 PCI to put back in the Beige G3.

If someone from ATI would like to comment, i'd love to know what's up with the 'pixel noise', it's obviously not an ATI only issue, since I saw the same symptom on the NVidia card. Unfortunately, NVidia doesn't support end users directly, and Apple's support is Zero help, so i'll never get an answer from anyone but ATI, probably. I do believe in the quality of ATI products, and hope to continue with what has been a perfect 'track record' of quality with their graphics cards, with this one exception.
regards,
Jeffrey F. "


" Hi Mike:
I've just finished upgrading my old Power Mac 8500. In the process of doing this, I replaced the Rage Orion card with a PCI Radeon. However, I was interested to see how the Radeon 7000 would perform, so I ordered one also.

Unfortunately I could not get the 7000 to work. Because of the way the case is on the 8500, you need to remove a nut beside the VGA port on both the PCI Radeon and the 7000. Then you must use a DVI-VGA adapter to run your monitor. My ViewSonic G75f could not be detected off the 7000 DVI port. It works fine off the DVI port on the PCI Radeon. Again, this is with a DVI-VGA adapter (supplied by ATI).

I would have been pretty upset if I had only ordered the 7000, but luckily I had the PCI Radeon to fall back on. Needless to say, the 7000 will be returned to where I purchased it from.

Thanks for a great site - I wouldn't have had the courage to upgrade my 8500 if it hadn't have been for you and all the advice provided on your various pages.
Gordon H."


" System: QuickSilver G4 733mhz
OS: OS 10.1.2/ 9.2.2
This card replaces my VooDoo 3 2000 that unfortunately the latest OS X upgraded killed.

Impressions after a week are very positive. I use my second monitor for not-so intensive work, so basically any card would do...hence going with a cheap card. This card has worked perfectly in both OS 9 and OS X. I mainly use OS X and hate booting back into OS 9 but sometimes, I have no choice.

Problems noted: I did have to reinstall the drivers in both operating systems after two days for some reason. I did recently install a slew of new OS X software so that may have been the reason.

Also, the TV output does not recognize the TV I use for video capture previews. However, the set is a Grundig, a European set that is kind of an oddball. However, I was able to successfully use this set with my Buz unit in the G3 I used before. Not a big deal since this was an added extra for me and since I was able to connect via my VCR...just means I need to plug and unplug a couple of cables.
Clay J.
Appearance Technologies
Appearance Software for your Classic Macintosh
http://www.appearancetechnologies.com "


" I purchased the Radeon 7000 as a replacement for a Voodoo3 2000, for graphics acceleration in OS X, and to support dual monitors. The card works fine in a modified version of OS 9.2 (System--9.1, Finder--9.2), but I have the same boot problems in OS X as all the beige G3's.

I averaged about 30 FPS in the Quake3 timedemos with highest quality settings (it didn't improve much on fastest mode due to system bus speed bottle-necking). Sadly, the Diablo II performance decreased from the Voodoo3 (I'm assuming D2 likes Glide much better than RAVE or OpenGL).

My setup:
PowerMac 8500/180
XLR8 MACh Carrier G3 466 OC'ed to 500
320 MB RAM
Miles U2W
Seagate Cheetah 9.2 GB 10K RPM
OS 9.2 (modified)
OS 10.1 (off of onboard video)

Great Site, keep up the good work!
Mitchell K "


" Hi, I have a B&W G3/300 and two 17inch (B&W) Apple Studio Display CRT Monitors. I recently purchased the Radeon 7000. I removed the OEM Rage 128 card and replaced it with the 7000. I had no problem getting both monitors to work. However, the monitor that is plugged into the DVI to VGA adapter looks fuzzy. I mean text, instead of being sharp and crisp like the other monitor is annoyingly blurry. I tried switching monitors but which ever monitor was plugged into the DVI to VGA adapter had the problem.

I am running OS 9.2.2. I have not tried OS X yet. Adjusting the settings on my monitor did not fix the problem. I tried phoning ATI (No 800 number?), but couldn't get through. I then emailed them explaining the problem, and got what seemed to be a generic response back that did not help fix the problem. I ended up putting my old card back in (in my last remaining slot), so I'm running one off the 7000 and one off the 128.
I know the card was cheap but I feel like they fall short of their claim that you can run two CRT's. I was hoping to save that last slot for an IDE card. I do have to say, the monitor that is connected to the VGA connector looks great
Ben "


" alas, i have the same problem as everyone else. i did, however, notice that ati nicely added it to their troubleshooting page: http://support.ati.com/infobase/3986.html
(NOTE - this page has been removed by ATI as of late March 2002)

it add insult to injury, i ordered a remanufactured mac last week (g4/500dp) and it shipped doa. so, now i have this card installed in my beige box as a stopgap until apple nicely repairs my new mac (they only repair, not replace, which is a pain when you get a doa box), and that doesn't work, either.

of course, this is even more annoying, as 10.1.2 is the upgrade that broke compatibility for my voodoo3/2000 that i'd been using. ahh, this has been a bad hardware week for me.

i think i'll stop buying apple stuff for awhile and see if i can get my original good mac karma back.

requisite info:
beige g3/266 (overclocked to 300 for 2 years now; stable as heck)
640 megs of ram
os 9.2.2 and 10.1.2
venting,
todd g. "


" Mike,
I'm now running a Samsung 170t LCD panel with a DVI-I cable through a retial Radeon card - not 7000 or 8000. When I began to shop for LCD panels I did not understand all the flavors of DVI interfaces and found this link - with pictures of connectors and an explanation of what signals (digital, analog, USB, power) each supports - very helpful:
www.dvigear.com/dviaccessories.html

Judging by the questions your ATI friend had for the user having problems with larger resolutions on the 7000, some readers may not understand that an LCD with a DVI-I interface can run in either digital or analog mode, since the connector supports both signals. DVI-I has both analog VGA and digital signals in the connector.-Mike]The mode is usually switch selectable on the monitor.

Reviewers of the new iMac have also failed to recognize how much value you get for $1799 because they reckon the LCD panel to be worth only $300 - the cost of an analog only 15" LCD - not $500, the lowest price you'll find for a 15" LCD with a digital interface. Running digitally avoids doing two conversions - D/A inside the computer and A/D inside the LCD - that introduce very noticeable noise in most LCDs with analog (VGA) interfaces.

If consumers could see the same document up on two LCDS, one with an analog connection and one with a digital, I'm sure they'd pick the digital everytime, and appreciate Apple's display choices much more. BTW, there is one error on the linked page. The ADC connector is not proprietary to Apple, it is part of the DVI spec, it just hasn't been adopted by many other computer or display makers (Formac uses it, though).
Paul T. "

The Radeon 7000 graphics chip I think has native digital support (like the notebook chip versions do, so there would be no A/D conversion on the graphics card in that case). What's odd is a regular reader here (BDAqua) says he has a VGA 17" LCD that looks better (side by side) than his Apple 17" (ADC/digital) display. Generally digital does have less potential for noise of course, but in many VGA LCDs I have it is not noticable (the quality of cables, connections, etc. also are a factor as well as the quality of the LCD components).



In reply to a post below, a contact at ATI says the 7000's DVI port is not limited to 1024x768 mode and that the table title at the ATI product page is incorrect. (The table should be titled "TV OUT" resolutions, not DVI.)

" Mike,
There is no 1024x768 limit on the DVI-I connector of our card. I believe, though I'll have to confirm, that we can support up to 1600x1200, assuming you have a panel that goes up that high.

(I asked why the 7000's product page noted 1024x768 as the max in the table of DVI resolutions and he replied)
The web page is wrong. I have already indicated the problem to the Marketing group. The title shouldn't be DVI Flat Panel, but it should read Television. The modes listed are for TV OUT, not the Flat Panel modes.

Unfortunately, I don't have a Viewsonic VP201MB panel to test with to see why MattK cannot get higher than 1024x768. I assume he is using the digital DVI-D cable that came with his panel. It would be nice to know if he is using a VGA-to-DVI cable, DVI-I to DVI-I cable, or DVI-D to DVI-D cable.

I assume he knows that he can press the CTRL key when selecting the Resolution Control Strip so that he can see all the modes, not just the recommended modes.

We have tried this on a few 3rd party panels we have here (Viewsonic VG181 and the Samsung SyncMaster 170T). Both panels can display 1280x1024 without any problem.

I'm not sure what MattK means when he says 1024x768 doesn't work. Does he mean that he has the option to select the modes, but his display goes out of sync? Or, does he mean that he doesn't get any modes higher than 1024x768? "

I've forwarded the above mail/questions to the reader that commented below about the limit and problems with his ViewSonic VP201MB.
I also just spotted this email from a Radeon 7000 owner noting he's running 1280x1024 on his 17" LCD:

" Mike,
My ATI Radeon 7000 has no problem displaying the 1280x1024 native resolution of my Dell 1702fp flat panel display using the DVI port.
Rick L."

This reader noted problems with the 7000 (and apparently a previous model PCI radeon) with his two LCD displays. [see his later comments below this original post.]

" I've noticed a lot of discussion regarding Radeon 7000 cards on your site recently. It should be noted that ALL Radeon cards have a bug in their DVI ouput that prevents them from displaying resolutions over 1024x768 on many digital flat panels. They do work with Apple's digital flat panels, [Actually, with apple's current ADC models you'd need a DVI/ADC adapter with power supply like the Dr.Bott DVIator $150 adapter. Earlier Apple LCDs were DVI or VGA however. And the Radeon AGP *does not* have a limit of 1024x768 - I have used it with a DVI Cinema display at 1600x1024 native resolution of that display. The PCI Radeon also should not be limited to 1024x768 (DVI), unless there's a monitor sense issue.-Mike] but I have personally confirmed that the prior Radeon Mac Edition(PCI), and the new Radeon 7000 (PCI) do not work above 1024x768 on my ViewSonic VP201MB (a digital flat panel with a native res of 1600x1200) or with my Samsung 240T (1920x1440). Apparently the sync signal is outside of industry standards. These monitors do work when attatched to the DVI output of GeForce3 cards.
[Note: The 7000 is a PCI card, there is no Geforce3 PCI card, but the original Radeon AGP and Nvidia AGP cards all offer higher than 1024x768 modes with a LCD that can run higher than 1024x768. In fact the Radeon models often have more modes than the Nvidia cards even with CRT monitors, at least before the later firmware updates/OS drivers (as noted here in past articles on the Video topics page)-Mike)
In fact the webpage for the Radeon 7000 confirms as much, if you examine the bottom of this page:
www.ati.com/na/pages/products/mac/radeon7000_me/index.html it indicates that no DVI resolution over 1024x768 is supported. The Radeon 8500 apparently fixes this problem, but sadly is only AGP.
-Matt K. "

Note: See ATI's reply above - the 7000's product page has an error. The table listed as "DVI" should have been titled "TV Out". (Also see the later post above for a Dell 17" DVI LCD owner using a 7000 Radeon fine at 1280x1024.) Matt later wrote:

" Mike,
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you, but here's what I've discovered.

The Radeon 7000 does indeed work with the ViewSonic VP201mb at full resolution. I suspect the card I tested before was _not_ a radeon 7000. The card I tested before was not one I had purchased myself, it was borrowed. It was in a Radeon 7000 box, but the card itself had a fan on it. The Radeon 7000 I went and bought after our email exchange does not have a fan on it. I think the guy who lent it to me got confused and put the older Radeon Mac Edition card in a Radeon 7000 Mac Edition box, because the card I recently tested that had sync problems over 1024x768 was basically exhibiting the same sync problems I saw with the original Radeon Mac Edition when I tested it months ago.

So based on the confident sound from the ATI email you forwarded to me, I went and actually bought a card. It works perfectly. I was pretty surprised to see that it has no fan, but the fact that it doesn't sort of made everything click for me.

Sadly, I don't have the Samsung 240t to test on anymore, but my prior indication of incompatibility really has no basis now. I feel very badly about having caused any confusion. I also wanted to clarify what was meant by the capitalized "ALL" in my prior email, I was referring to both PC and Mac Radeon cards of that generation. This obviously does not apply to the more modern cards as I seem to have disproven for myself everything in my prior email as it pertains to the Radeon 7000. Thanks for forwarding me the email from ATI and pressing me to clarify what I said...
-Matt "


" Mike,
I am running the ATI Radeon 7000 pci Macintosh Edition on a 9600 System 9.2.1 with 1gb Memory a XLR8 carrier ZIF with a 500mhz G3 installed. This is one of the earlier Carrier ZIFs. OpenGL 1.2.2 installed

The Initial installation went fine but my main monitor (Samsung 170T DVI LCD) would not show anything. I still had a second monitor hooked up to a IXMicro video card in the machine. I said ok, pulled the IXMicro card and plugged my Apple 15 inch LCD monitor into the VGA connector. Booted up, everything looks great. Set up both monitors like I wanted them. I am still troubleshooting a seemingly random freeze. I removed all ATI Extensions and so far no freeze. I will start adding them back and see what happens. This was really an impressive card as this is the first time I've been able to use FLYII on this computer. The sharp crispness of DVI is very noticable and I thought that the Samsung on VGA was great.

Let me know if I can give you any other info
Gary R. "


" Just had to add my two cents. Works perfect. Quake3 never looked better. PhotoShop 7 (beta 43-Liquid Sky) likes it better too. Haven't tried to use dual monitors yet. I can drag a 300dpi image around so fast I get dizzy with no slow downs. And for $107 from thenerds.net, I am in heaven. Still surprised it was so inexpensive.
G4/400-pci [Yikes]
1 gig ram
Love your site,
Clay "


A reader replied to the previous request for 7000 owners running dual monitors in OS 9.2.2:

" I received my Radeon 7000 card this morning and installed it following the instructions. I have two screens, but not perhaps the two you may be looking for. I do video work using Final Cut Pro 3.0 and one of its new features is displaying RealTime effects through a S-Video port. It works great.

I have a Sony 20" connected to the original Apple AGP video card on my G4 450DP. Connected to the Radeon 7000, I have an Apple MultiScan 15 connected to the VGA port (with the supplied adaptor) and a Sony NTSC video monitor connected to the S-Video port (using the supplied cable). I can treat the NTSC monitor as a third independent monitor with a variety of resolutions (640x480 through 1024x768). With FCP, I can use it for displaying either RT video or just as a third monitor.

As far as mirroring, I can mirror my main monitor (20) on both (14 & NTSC). I can also select in the Monitor control panel, any one monitor to mirror any other, i.e., 20 not mirrored, but NTSC mirroring 14. It is kind of interesting what you can do.

This card replaced my aging (aged, perhaps is better) TwinTurbo card and have given me better workflow with FCP.

If you have any specific questions, please let me know!
Thanks for the great site!
Jim R."


Another reader replied to the request for OS 9.2.2 users running dual monitors with the 7000. (Two earlier reports below noted problems), but he noted running dual monitors in OS 9.2.2 fine.

" Mike,
I have my Radeon 7000 card running on a beige G3 using MacOS 9.2.2. The DVI port is connected to a 17" Dell Flat Panel Display. The VGA port is connected to a 21" Sanyo monitor. The composite video port is connect to a composite monitor. All work great. The composite port only does mirroring on one of the monitors.
This configuration does not boot when using OSX.
Rick L."

(So far all Beige G3 owners noted the same issue with OS X; ATI is aware of this and working to resolve it.)


" Mike,
I just installed yesterday a new Radeon 7000 in my Yikes G4 (PCI graphics). I removed the Apple-supplied PCI ATI card and replaced it with the Radeon. I notice the following behavior: In Mac OS 9.2.2, when I have just one monitor (a 20-inch VGA Techmedia with DDS sensing) connected to the card, all is fine - I can select any resolution. When I connect a second monitor (Compac Presario 1510 VGA w/DDS) to the card, however, I can only use 640x480 on the (first) large monitor. The VGA Monitors icon on the ATI Displays control panel is dimmed, so I can't use it to select any other resolution.

When I reboot into Mac OS X (10.1.2), everything is fine. Both monitors work as advertised on the single card. The problem is isolated to Mac OS 9.2.2.

Other system info: 450 mHz system (chipped), 640 MB RAM, second ATI video card (Xclaim VR), Orange Micro SCSI PCI card, Wired4DVD PCI card.

Anybody else report problems with two monitors in OS 9?
Mike Tyo"

[Update - see the report above this one for a OS 9.2.2 owner running dual monitors OK with the 7000 in OS 9.2.2] There's another report of a similar issue (below). If any Radeon 7000 owner is using dual monitors (both connected to the 7000 card) with OS 9.x, let me know. *Also include your Monitor type/brand/model - VGA/DVI, etc.*


" I'm seeing the same problem as the Beige G3, but I'm running a 7500 with a PowerLogix G3/350 daughercard and 512mb interleaved RAM. In OS X it simply doesn't work. ATI's utility claims I don't own any of their hardware, but Apple System Profiler sees it as:

ATY,DDParent
Card type: ATY,DDParent
Card name: ATY,RV100Parent
Card model: ATY,RV100
Card ROM #: 113-85501-119
Card revision: 0
Card vendor ID: 1002

In OS 9 I can only get it to drive one monitor at a time, the one plugged into the DVI port through one of the many adapters they throw in. Although, as a cruel little consolation prize, it does tell the OS it's running both monitors just fine and to go ahead and allocate 2048x768 on my behalf. Dragging windows blindfolded is a lot of laughs, lemmee tell ya. I know about the Apple Sense Code "issue" but unless that also applies to my 17" Dell...?

I can't get it to drive either monitor (Dell 1728D-LS and Apple 1705) above 1024x768. I'm not sure what the Apple is supposed to be capable of, but the Dell's onscreen menus show resolutions up through 1600x1200. I've tried the Dell on both VGA and DVI ports, same results. I still don't have the right adapter to plug the Apple into the DVI port yet. Kinda doubt it would make the slightest difference to anything, though.

I also recommend anybody stuffing one of these things into a 7500 or similar to have a Dremel, some files, or some other way to just *slightly* round the plastic and shielding along the bottom edge of the PCI slot, at least if they expect to plug anything into the VGA port. (Although I'm sure so many 7500 owners have upgraded to digital flat panels by now, that it shouldn't be an issue for very many people.)

And when you're digging around out back for that trusty old chisel (or cutting torch, to each their own), see if you can find a spare cooling fan. There's a space provided behind the hard drives that stopped the gray-screen crashes just as Quake 3 Arena really got hectic, and brought my idle CPU temp down from 15 to 11 degrees celsius as the only positive result of this whole senseless ordeal (well, other than the fact that I can now kill somewhere other than the office LAN). I had also DIPped my card down to 45/360, maybe with the fan I can bring it back to 50/400, where it had been utterly stable since I got the card a month ago.

Probably by the weekend I'll have confirmed it's failure in this machine under both operating systems running a 604/200 as well as the G3/3or400. And then on my S-900 with both chips, because apparently I crave rejection. If there's any specific tests or info you need to confirm or deny any particular allegations against this product, let me know and I'll give it a shot. I'm already trying to decide how many updates and/or patches to sit through before it goes RMA.

And at this point in my rant I'd like to sincerely thank you guys for creating/maintaining xlr8yourmac.com. It has been a vital resource in both planning and recovering from my hardware purchases for the last two years.
--Bryan"

I sent Bryan some tips such as leaving the monitor off until after booted - old tip for lost resolutions here. He later wrote:

Mike,
Thanks for the tips. Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but between trying to meet an insane deadline at work (deltatraining.com) and playing the ATI game, I've spent about an hour in OS X this week, which is absolutely unheard of for me.

Booting with monitors turned off worked wonders! I can get my 17" Dell to 1280x1024, but only at 60hz (seizure city!). May try SwitchRes [Griffintechnology.com's SuperRes is free-Mike] or similar, but my real concern is getting this card working in OS X. I've moved back into my S-900, with mixed results. Still no sign of my Radeon here, but I was able to switch my CPU from 45/337 to 60/390, which is really, really, really nice.

The only added info I have for you is that to get dual monitor support in OS 9 I have to have the Apple 1705 connected to the VGA port and the Dell on the DVI port. No combination of adapters will make the Apple monitor run off of DVI, although the card thinks it is and reports it to the system as a 1024x768 Bermuda Rectangle. But the S-900 is acting exactly like the 7500, in that the Radeon will prevent booting into OS X if it's the only video device. On the 7500 I have to run from motherboard video to boot with the Radeon in the machine, and on the S-900 I had to put my ixMicro tt128 back in. (And as expected, dropping back down to a 604e/200 made absolutely no difference.)

As things stand now, if they don't release a driver patch that allows me to use this card in OS X by the end of the week, it's RMA bound.
Thanks for the help, resources, moral support, etc.
--Bryan "


" Mike,
Great site! I don't know how you do it, but thanks for all the hard work. I just installed a ATI Radeon 7000 Mac Edition in a Beige G3 DT today. I'm not running OS X yet so I wasn't worried about the booting problem that has been discussed on your site.

Installation went fine. I connected one of my two RasterOps Mc7515 monitors via the VGA connector, booted up and after start-up it worked fine. (I'm currently running 9.2.1.)

Things went so well with the first monitor that I shut down, installed the DVI to VGA adapter (which is provided with card in order to use a second VGA monitor), connected the second monitor via the adapter and rebooted. On start-up, the monitor connected to the adapter wouldn't wake up. At least that what I thought was indicated by the dark screen and the power light on the monitor.

I shut down, reconnected the second monitor to the on-board video connector, switched the first one from the VGA connector on the Radeon card to the DVI to VGA adapter and rebooted with only one monitor connected to the ATI 7000 via the adapter. Same story as before, with only one monitor connected to the card (via the adapter) that one failed to wake or at least light up.

I switched from the adapter to the regular VGA connector, rebooted and everything worked fine. So, I'm currently running with one monitor connected to the ATI 7000 and one hooked up to the on-board video.

I used the report feature on the ATI software to document the problem and I'm E-Mailing it to ATI.

With the exception of not currently being able to use the dual monitor feature, the card works great for me.
Anyway, I'll update this post after I get a response from ATI.
Thanks for taking care of the rest of us.
Dave G."

I asked Dave if when the onboard video is not being used if he removed any Mac/VGA adapters from the onboard video port. (As noted here back in 1999 - if the adapter is left on the onboard port even with no connection the mac thinks there's a monitor attached.)


" I received my Radeon 7000 today and I'm having the same experience as the folks with Beige G3s. I installed into a working OS 10.1.2 system that has been running a Rage 128 pulled from a B&W. As per instructions, I installed the drivers and then rebooted. There was a moment of signal and the the monitor went into 'Power Saving' mode never to return. I tried various PCI slots and also tried to see if the DVI connector was providing any output but nothing worked.

The system is an S900 with a PowerLogix G4/450, Acard ATA/66 adaptor, ADS USB adaptor, Apple 12x CD-ROM, Yamaha 8424S and Maxtor 30gb ATA drive. Everything works fine in this configuration except the 7000. Sigh... Guess I'll wait to see what ATI can come up with. New operating systems can be painful.
Regards,
David"

My ATI contacts called the first reader reporting this problem (the first report above) and they are working to solve the problem. OS X isn't a problem with the card in modern Macs based on comments, but so far all Beige G3 and older Mac owners have noted similar problems trying to use the 7000 with OS X. Hopefully a fix will be released soon. Here's an email from Lyle who first reported the issue here:

"Thanks again for your input on this Mike. I received a reply from ATI that the issue was escalated to QA in Toronto. Apparently, there has been some progress made and I should have an update early this week.
Although I think ATI missed the mark in knowing that Beige G3 owners would be the primary market for the RADEON 7000, I have to give them credit for their prompt and professional addressing of this issue. I have every confidence that they will have a fix for this quickly.
The 7000 looks like a solid product and the price fits nicely for those of us who want any reason to delay buying "processor-locked" QuickSilvers.
Regards,
Lyle M."


" Hi Mike,
I also purchased the Radeon 7000 Mac video card for my Beige G3/333 Tower. It boots up fine in OS 9.2.2, but in OS X (10.1.2) power light blinks once at startup and then never returns.
Rome H. "


" Mike,
More Radeon 7000 Beige G3 Problems:
I have a Beige G3 upgraded with a 366 MHz G3 (came with a 266 G3.) In any case, I had been using a dual display setup with the onboard video and a Voodoo 3. When I read about the Radeon 7000 I jumped at the opportunity to pick one up. I am now running into the same problem other readers are reporting on your web site when I try to boot into OS X. Also, like other readers, OS 9.2.2 works fine with the Radeon.

I called ATI, and the tech support guy did not know of any issues with the Beige G3 w/ Radeon 7000 booting into OS X. I referred him to your xlr8yourmac.com site, and he said that he would submit the problem to the appropriate people (I am not holding my breath.) Without OS X compatibility this card is pretty useless to me because I rarely use OS 9 these days.
Thanks for this great site!
-Aryeh S. "


" Mike,
I also purchased a Radeon 7000 PCI for my Beige G3 DT (Sonnet G4/400 ZIF, 288 MB RAM, OS X 10.1, OS 9 9.2.1/OpenGL 1.2.2) to replace my Voodoo 3/2000. I have the same problem that Lyle M. does. I do have a second monitor lying around, and my machine boots fine as long as I have one hooked up to the internal video. However, the Radeon 7000 will not work in OS X, no matter what I try.

Although this is more than a bit annoying, I still would like to thank ATI for making this card. It was hard to justify buying an original Mac Radeon for a machine this old. I haven't done any real benchmarking yet, but I was getting an average of ~40 FPS in UT (OS 9, of course), which is good enough for me.
Thanks to you Mike, for providing all of us with such a helpful resource.
Brett"


" Hello and thanks for the amazing site!
Just wanted to give a quick first impression of the Radeon 7000 graphics card – Just installed in my B&W G3, Rev. B 350, 1024MB RAM last night and toyed around with it.

Phenomenal quality on the TV-out! My TooL DVD looked exquisite. There were some issues with the bright whites turning black, but that was solved by turning the contrast down and the brightness up to compensate. Everything still looked fine on the TV (as well as a TV can display a monitor signal anyway) and the artifacts in the DVD went away. One thing that is interesting about the DVD features - it will only play on ONE SCREEN at a time, even if mirroring is turned on. And if mirroring is turned on, it automatically defaults to the TV (which is good, unless you have a 19" TV and a 22" Cinema Display).

I was expecting iTunes visualization to speed up, but no luck there :( I guess my processor speed is a bottleneck. This card definitely smokes my OEM Rage [Rage128] on games, I'm able to play Alice with full texture and details at 1024x768 with very good performance. 800x600 runs extremely smooth. And this is on a processor that technically is too slow by their standards.

I don't even want to get into just how screamingly fast Unreal runs. My head almost blew up. I don't have a copy of UT to test, though.

Haven't had the time to do any real benchmarking, and I probably won't get to really test this thing for a while because of my schedule, but I'll post my results as I get to them.

All in all, this is a phenomenal card for the price, especially when you consider that it comes with 3 adapters and 2 video cables. If you don't have a DVI monitor, you can use the enclosed DVItoVGA adapter to hook up a standard VGA. It really seems like a lot of thought and time went into this card and I am VERY pleased.
Cheers!
Zeb D. "

I asked if he could run a FPS test in Unreal and he later noted the card was installed in the 66mhz PCI slot of the B&W G3.


" Mike -
Beige G3 w/ OWC 400mhz G3.
Boots fine into OS X, BUT no video to the monitor attached to the Radeon except momentarily during the power up. The boot continues and my monitor attached to the internal graphics card still works fine.

The Radeon appears to work great in Mac OS 9.2.2 - I can use both monitors. I'll play around by trying different pci slots this weekend. I have emailed ATI with an ATI Report.
BTW - I got it from page computer for $115 shipped.
Great site! Now when will we see the G5....
John W.D. "

I tried to reply to John's email but it was bounced back with an "account inactive" error.


" I am having the same problem (as many) with my beige G3/300 MT (all stock) and the Radeon 7000 card:
OS9.2.2 - the ATI drivers and card are SUPER (Apple 20 Multi-Scan)

OS X (10.1.2) - the monitor (Apple 20 Multi-Scan) clicks green like it is going to display the splash screen and then the HD spins up, loading the OS and the monitor clicks amber and that is that...OS and HD boot as well as I can tell, but no display....I installed the drivers from the CD, website, and uninstalled...no luck...I tried the ROM update/patch from Sep01 to no avail.

Card Data (I can see it in System Profiler in 9 and 10):
Radeon 7000
32MB DDR RAM
ROM#: 113-85501-119
Card Revision: 0

Thanks,
Andrew H. "


" I have a Dual/800 G4 with GeForce 3 in the AGP slot, and an old XClaim VR Pro in the PCI slot... which ran under OS X driving a 19" monitor... but was a bit slow for 2d and wasn't able to play DVD's on it.

I bought the Radeon 7000 to replace the XClaim card... and all went smoothly. I installed the drivers, installed the card, and booted into OS 10.1.2 without problems.... works well.
arn "


" Hello Mike,
I wanted to let you know that I had the same problem (monitor light on, then goes to sleep immediately on bootup) with the Radeon 7000 while booting into OS X.1 on a Umax S900/604e 233MHz. I didn't think anything of it because I had never successfully booted up the machine in OS X before (only had a Voodoo 3/2000 video card). I had installed OS X on the SCSI hard drive while it was attached to my Sawtooth G4/450, then I reconnected it to the Umax (I also applied the necessary patches to OS X to get it to run on the S900). I assumed the problem was elsewhere; I guess not.

On the plus side, the card works fine in my Sawtooth as a second video card (& third). I would have e-mailed you last night, but I wanted to get some benchmarks for Quake3 & maybe UT beforehand. I'm still working on the benchmarks, as I can't seem to get the OS X version of Q3 to locate any demo files (I might be missing them). I wasn't planning on trying the games in OS 9 because I don't use OS 9 that often and the Radeon 7000 requires OS 9.22, which I don't have loaded, for the 3D to work properly.
Thanks for your time and for having such a great website.
Brett S. "

The 7000 requires OpenGL 1.2.2 (included with OS 9.2.2), and will run with any version of OS 9 I'm told if you have OpenGL 1.2.2 installed. (However since the OpenGL 1.2.2 update is not available separately, this I'm told is why OS 9.2.2 is listed as requred.) In regards to the S900/OS X issues noted with the card a reader wrote:

    " With regards to the Umax S900 issue. The fact that the user has never been able to boot OS X on that system, plus the fact that his procedure involved trying to boot a Sawtooth installation, leads me to believe it's not related to the problem the [Beige] G3 owner had [with the 7000 card]. The [Beige] G3 problem looks like it may very well be pretty specific. On The [Beige] G3, the on-board video always gets activated on startup even with no display. It's then switched off and passed to the correct card during startup - [ATI has] to look at why it's failing with this specific card.

    If the S900 guy can get his OS X booting properly on that machine with another card, then tell him to follow up again [with the 7000 card] ... [The] S900 is a system completely unsupported by Apple as far as OS X goes. "

Another reader wrote to suggest that the Beige G3 OS X issue may be similar to other G4 upgraded Beige's that have had problems like this before. (But if it only happens with the 7000 card installed, I'd suspect the graphics card is a factor.)


" Mike,
Howdy! Just installed a Radeon 7000 on my G4 533 (Digital Audio, 768 MB RAM, OS 10.1.2), and I am very pleased. I had been using a Rage Pro [Rage128 Pro I assume-Mike] that came with the system in the AGP slot, and wanted to go dual display for my video work in FCP 3. I was a little worried as to how the 7000 would perform in the 33Mhz PCI slot compared to the AGP, but boy was I surprised! The 7000 looked better all the way around, had faster 2D performance, and better color and refresh than I expected. I am running a Sony Trinitron 20-inch display at 1024X768 at 100 Hz, and it looks great!
The card comes with great cables and accessories, too. I recommend it and give kudos to ATi. Well done!
Thanks for a great website! Its a great resource.
Tim K. "


Other Graphics Card Related Articles: See the Video topics page for articles/reviews of other Graphics cards, driver feedback and more.

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