Reviews and Daily News with a  Difference!
Mac Models/Mods  | CPU Upgrades  | Storage  | Video  | Audio/HT  | Apps/OS/Network/Misc  | Archives  | Search
News, Tips, Reviews or Questions to News at Xlr8YourMac.com
8/22/01 Wednesday's News: Story DetailReturn to News Page

Click for iPod Accessories

Reader Guides to Installing OS 9.2.1 on Pre-G3 Macs:
(Officially Apple does not support OS 9.2.x on pre-G3 Macs)

Published: 8/22/2001
Updated 8/24/2001 for reader feedback
(more feedback added on 8/27/2001 and 9/7/2001)
(Updated with another install method 8/27/2001)

NOTE: I'm too swamped in other work and mail to keep this page updated since it was posted in August 2001. For the latest info on OS 9.2.x installs on unsupported Macs - see OS9forever.com.

OS 9.2.2 Install Info: A reader sent comments on how he installed OS 9.2.2 on an "unsupported" mac (8500):

    " Good news on this subject:
    9.2.1 was installed with the help of Michael Hecht patches.
    1. Copy System 9.2.1 and move from System Folder.
    2. Start from another partition extensions off except MachID.
    3. Set MachId to 510
    4. Update with 9.2.2
    5. Open saved 9.2.1 System file with Resedit and copy "gusd" resource
    6. Open 9.2.2 System File with Resedit and paste "gusd" resource from 9.2.1
    7. Restart machine from updated 9.2.2 partition.

    Et voilˆ. It works without a glitch. And snappier. Firewire and all.
    (PWM 8500, Newer G3 250 Mhz, ATA disks, Firewire disks (Oxford 911) and Sanyo 24/10/40 CDRW, IMS TwinTurbo 128, a lot of Ram. Hope it can help for others.
    PS: on Pismo, I had to throw away Keyboard preferences and restart after updating to 9.2.2.
    Jean-Marie Simonet/infograf"

(original comments on OS 9.2.1 follow)

I've not verified this personally but two readers sent guides/tips to getting OS 9.2.1 to install on "unsupported" (Pre-G3) Macs. (The installer will normally refuse to run on unsupported Macs.) [Updated to include stronger warnings on the 2nd method of mixing OS/System file versions.]

Note: Remember that having a G3 (or G4) CPU upgrade in an unsupported Mac model does not help. OS 9.2.x is officially supported only on Apple G3 or later Macs (Beige G3 or later). Having a G3/G4 CPU upgrade in an older Mac does not help - in fact it can complicate matters since the CPU upgrade control software may not be compatible with OS 9.2.x.

Do not attempt to install OS 9.2.x on any unsupported Mac unless you are willing to risk the chance the system won't boot, possible drive problems, etc. This page is just for reports on those that have been willing to take the risk, and for reporting the problems, etc. seen during or after the attempts. See the reader feedback below for examples of others that have tried to install OS 9.2.1 on an unsupported Mac model. (Also ask yourself if it's worth it - if your Mac is running fine, running all the apps/games you use - what benefit will you have from installing OS 9.2.1 - and consider what you can lose. Note that the OpenGL 1.2.2 installed by OS 9.2.1 is not compatible with 3Dfx graphics cards for instance.)

The original reader comments on install tricks follow. (The latest install tip is first, including download utils)

Without further ado...
Since my last message, I have both created a better patch and tested more thoroughly. I turned out I was all but one 'cfrg' call away. This has been tested by a number of users on the MacFixit forums, but all the standard disclaimers apply. I would rather folks post there about problems/questions rather than emailing me, so withholding my address might be a good idea.

Here's what you need to do after installing the 9.2.1 update. Procedures for accomplishing the install step have already been published, and I will not repeat them here. I have included a patcher that addresses the Update to Mac OS 9.2.1 install file, but it seems you must still change the 'mach' Gestalt of your machine too. And if you boot from another system (drive or cd), it makes the install procedure much easier, as you don't have to restart when the Installer finishes.

The second patcher I have included is the one that does the deed on the 9.2.1 system suitcase. After the 9.2.1 Updater is done running, either quit (or force quit if not booted off another system) and run the patch. I have noticed that it is rather flaky, which I can only attribute to ResCompare, but it does work. I up'd the amount of RAM it uses, so perhaps that will help. It also hangs the computer for a second or two before popping up the patch dialog, I believe this is because it is reading through the system suitcase, all 14.4 MB of it, so be patient. Again all disclaimers apply. Then reboot into 9.2.1 glory.

Both are also available from my iDisk, but we'll see how long that lasts. My user name is scottboone.

These are the steps to do the patch by hand. It isn't for those who haven't used ResEdit before (or who don't know how to convert Hex to decimal :). But it isn't too hard.

Of course, you need a copy of the 9.1 System suitcase, and I would recommend doing the 9.2.1 update over a clean 9.1 install (that way you can always go back to your "working" 9.1 install in case of problems). And, as always, don't attempt to ResEdit a system suitcase that you are running off of.

With ResEdit
1) Open both the 9.1 and 9.2.1 System suitcases.

2) Copy the entire 'gusd' resource from the 9.1 System and paste it into the 9.2.1 system. Answer "yes" to the overwrite resources with same id dialog.

  • The gusd is pretty much just a list of "supported" computers, and the info in 9.2.1 is a subset of 9.1, so this should retain FULL compatibility with 9.2. The machine ID start at hex word 00000008. It is a word long (in hex four characters are a word, with each character representing 4 bits of data). The very next word is the corresponding 'gtbl' entry, something you'll need later.

  • If you want to go the extra mile, you can edit the second and third words of the resource , changing them to B78D 7253 (that's in hex). This seems to be a version code for 9.2.1 and is used in other resources as well--like the 'gtbl's. The fourth word is a list counter, telling how many items are in the list minus one. If you add or remove anything from the list, you need to increment/decrement this.

    3) Open the gpch. This is the spot where SOME calls are made to the ptch routines for the rom stuff. I don't know for certain, but who cares?, it WILL work. If you check with ResCompare, you will see that the gpch resources that ARE IN 9.2 also ARE IN 9.1, and are changed. You will also notice that there are a lot of resources "missing" in 9.2. I simply copied all the missing ones from 9.1 and pasted them into the gpch resource window in the 9.2 System. You can command-click the resources and copy them all at once. The resource #s to move are: 123, 199, 222, 223, 246, 601, 602, 603, 645, 650, 655, 657, 658, 668, 750, 752, 1024.

  • As for compatibility, well, I'm not sure what we're dealing with here. On one hand, the gpch could simply be a go-between that calls certain patches based on the machine...in that case, it is possible the patches for "old-world" are really in 9.2 and just need called. On the other hand, we may be only getting 9.1 support for these legacy machines. Either way, it boots, and only the very basic hardware features would not have been updated...no less than 9.1 perhaps better.
  • I wouldn't recommend simply copying and pasting the entire 9.1 'gpch' into 9.2, as then any changes made in those other resources wouldn't get made...of course, an argument could be made that they are possibly "unnecessary" for legacy support. You could copy the 'gpch' in 9.2 and paste it over 9.1, replacing like IDs. (This would overwrite the old resources in 9.1, but not effect the "missing" ones.) Then you could copy the 'new' 'gpch' resource from 9.1 and paste it back into 9.2 overwriting the existing. This would be faster than perhaps command-clicking all the resources (or even having to know them for that matter).

    4) The final step is a bit more involved, because it requires editing of the 'gtbl' for your machine. You can gleen your machine's Gestalt ID in decimal from the System Profiler app. You will need to know how and be able to convert this to hexadecimal. Open the 'gusd' resource and find your machine's 'mach' ID in hex. The next word is the 'gtbl' ID in hex. Convert it to decimal, open the 'gtbl' resource, and open that ID. This is a list of patches required for your machine in order to boot. I don't know if it is the COMPLETE list, however. Scroll down until you find a line with this data: 000E 0000 0000 004C. Insert the cursor at the end of that line and type: 000E 0000 0000 004F. You don't need to hit return or spaces, they will be added automatically. Now scroll back to the top and increment the list counter by one (remembering the list counter is the fourth word of the resource--actually you only need edit the 8th byte). You can also change the version number to B78D 7253 if you want.

  • In my System, I changed ALL the 'gtbl' entries. You should be able to edit just the one for your system, though.

  • When I was tracking down what my 7600 needed, I compared the 'gtbl's of the 7600 and Beige G3 in 9.1 (26 & 46). I found that the 7600 had five entries that the G3 didn't, four had FFFF as the third word and corresponded with 'gpch' entries. The fifth...well I never did figure out what it was, but it started with 000A. The G3 used three 'gpch's that the 7600 did not as well as three "unknowns", starting with 000A, 0009, & 0013. [I'd like to know what these are and where in the system to find them...any advice would be appreciated.] I then compared the Beige G3 'gtbl' from 9.1 with the same in 9.2.1. What I found is that there was only one addition and two missing. The addition was the 000E line. It turns out that corresponds to a new code fragment, 'cfrg', that loads the PowerPC DragLib. The two dropped lines were for 'gpch's; they also were used by the 7600 and are ones that get copied in from 9.1. I'm not sure that they are require or not, but when I yanked them from my 7600 'gtbl', the System wouldn't boot. They were 'gpch's 650 and 668. If anyone has a non-PCI PowerMac and would like to trace this route, feel free. I would bet that you'll find a lot of line entries that are NOT in the Beige G3, and in that case, until we find out what the A, B, 8, 9, 12, & 13 lines are, you're probably out of luck.

    5) Save the System, close ResEdit, and put the file in the new 9.2.1 System Folder. Reboot. Hopefully if all goes well you'll be staring a the 9.2.1 Welcome splash with extensions loading.

    I can also say that I am successfully using the XLR8 MACh Speed Control extension on my 7600 with a G3 upgrade.

    So now that I have spent all this time figuring this out, I would appreciate a second (and a second chance :) on the soap box. Thanks to all on the MacFixit Forums in the "Instructions: Installtion on Pre-G3 or G3 Upgrade" thread. There were those who said "It can't be done.", "The rom patches don't exist.", yada yada yada. I don't know who these people were, but I'm glad they contributed their two cents of ignorance. Perhaps when contributing to a technical forum, if you don't KNOW something, don't say anything--your pessimistic intonations aren't conducive to the final goal. But this brings me to a second point: Apple lied. Well at least they weren't entirely honest. I'm sure we will never know the engineering answer as to whether or not Apple did in fact have support for the pre-G3 architectures in 9.2. Did they strip EVERYTHING out? Did I find EVERYTHING I needed to? Either way, it wouldn't have been too difficult for Apple to have released 9.2.1 as an unsupported upgrade to legacy machines. That would have been nice. However, it is obvious at least to me, Apple decided not to do that--and what could have been their motivation? Could it have been support? No, unsupported means just that. Could it have been that the parts weren't there? No, most would have been happy with the subsystem of 9.1. So simply I can see only one reason here...greed. Apple is trying to force users into an upgrade or suffer policy. I don't like that, and neither do many others. It isn't right, it isn't fair, and it just isn't in the spirit of Apple. I know that Apple wants to transition on OSX, but they need to do so by having users WANT what OSX offers not by handcuffing them to a sinking ship and offering a hacksaw. I'm already perturbed by the fact that Apple isn't helping the development of Darwin on legacy systems more...these systems, much like older PCs on Linux, have the power and architectures to run a unix OS very nicely. They may not deal so well with Aqua, but in many cases they make for nice servers and a myriad of other roles on a network. Apple has not provided a "server" machine since the Network Server line, so the way I see it, a 7600 is just as good in that role as a new G4 tower is--both can saturate a 100BT line...how much is too much?

    Thanks go to Ben Ralston, kby, anavrin, and others on the MacFixit Forums in the "Re: Instructions: Installtion on Pre-G3 or G3 Upgrade" thread. I'd also like to thank MacFixit and XLR8 Your Mac for all they've done to help out hackers like myself. It's great to be able to get this kind of info.

    Praises to Ryan Rempel, Thomas Tempelmann, & Quinn the Eskimo, gods who see fit to bring things to the Mac that Apple doesn't. I know I'm missing a lot of kudos, but these were just in my mind.

    So to summarize, 9.2.1 CAN work on a legacy system...as an unsupported install. Your mileage may vary. Thanks to those who helped. No thanks (and bad omens even) to those who didn't, especially Apple. We are heading into interesting times with a company (aapl) that doesn't seem to care as much about its customers, especially AFTER they walked out the door with a machine. I hope things improve, but somehow, since history usually repeats itself and I just got done reading the year 1985 according to inCider magazine, I know it won't.
    -- Scott Boone"

  • Other install tips/methods follow:

    " Mike,
    I have not had a chance to fully test this out yet, want to do a full backup first, but I downloaded GestLab 1.2.2 and GestLab Database form http://www.geocities.com/jp_curcio/gestlab/glab_us.html. This program allowed me to change the machine ID from 9600 to PowerMac G3 ID 67 to ID 510. This in turn allowed the installer to run.
    Will let you know what happens.
    Gary R"

    Tips on using GestLab noted in the first install tip:

    " Mike,
    I noticed several readers have not been able to figure out how to use GestLab to change the Mach number. I too found the "documentation" not very helpful but I did manage to figure out how to get it done.

    After the program finishes creating its data base, one must scroll down to the entry that says Mach Machine type. Select it, then go to the menu bar DATA. One of the choices is "set value of Mach" Set this to 510... Hope this helps. This method is much simpler than the second method and worked very well for me. I just wish some enterprising reader would come up with a way to use the 9.2.1 suitcase.
    Bruce "

    Another reader wrote with a more involved procedure:
    (Note - see below for warnings on this and note one reader could not print after running a mixed system .)

    " I've figured out how to modify the installer to allow installation on pre-g3 macs or g3-upgraded macs. The installer doesn't rely on the Gestalt ID of the machine, as i've changed mine without any success. The installer won't load.

    Here is how:

    1: Go to your system folder and make a copy of the System file and put it anywhere outside of your system folder. Remember where.

    2: Mount the 9.2.1 update, and copy its contents to your hard drive. Any place will do fine. This is so we can change the data, because the image is read only when mounted.

    3: Open the folder on your hard drive, and open the "Software Installers" folder. Then open the "Upgrader Files" folder.

    4: Throw away the file "IncompatHW"

    5: Duplicate the file "Welcome" and rename it "IncompatHW".

    6: Go back to the main folder and launch "Mac OS Install", and follow the instructions.

    7: After the update has completed, DON'T CLICK ON RESTART! Force quit the program, and go to the system folder. Put the file "System" in the trash, and replace it with your back-uped "System" file.

    8: Restart.

    A good save-guard is to have an emergency disk available that you can start off. If you restart after installation without replacing the System file with the older System, you will not be able to start up your mac anymore. An error at start-up asking you to upgrade your hard disk drivers (even though this has already been done, and can be redone, if you wish) will not allow you to. The quasi-Mac OS 9.2.1-9.1 system will boot and run fine, and all the components (including the Finder) will be updated. If you aren't using OS X, you can savely throw away any Classic Comptability files in your system.
    m. lohninger"

    I welcome other reader feedback on this tip. Email me with your experience and system details. Please note which of the two methods you used. *Remember to backup all your existing data before attempting any of these procedures.*

    Reader Feedback on Unsupported System Installs: (latest reports first)

    " I want to report that I have used Scott Boone's patcher on my 9.2.1 System Suitcase and have now substituted this for the 9.1 Suitcase that I was originally forced to use after updating to 9.2.1. I have a Power Tower Pro 225 with an upgraded G3 400 cpu. After applying the patcher, the 9.2 splash screen comes up and everything seems to be working fine. If I have any problems I will let you know. I have verified that I can print (Laser Writer 360).

    For those interested in using Scott's patcher (located in his iDisk) , the large one is the one needed. As I understand it, the small patch is another method for getting the updated to run. Since I was successful with GestLab, I did not need the small patch but I was confused about what it does. Scott's patcher operates on the 9.2.1 Suitcase that is produced from running the update. When you activate the patch it will ask for the location of system 9.2.1. It wants the location of the suitcase. Be patient when it runs, you will hear a lot of disk activity, then silence. Then you will get a screen saying it was successful.

    I also had the same or very similar trouble as as others have posted with Eudora. I deleted Open Transport Preferences, AppleShare Prep, and AppleTalk Preferences - and left TCP/IP alone, then restarted. This worked for me. I suspect open transport is the main offender.
    Bruce R. "

    " Hi,
    The Upgrade to 9.2.1 work great! I am using a 6500 with a newertch g3/300 upgrade, Using gestlab 122 I set my system mach to the ID of a G3, copied the original system file, ran the installer, it did its thing no problem. I rebooted using a system 9 CD, copied the backup system file back into system folder and rebooted. I now have a hybrid 9.1 system and 9.2.1 everything else system. It doesn't seem to have broken anything, yet....
    thanks for all the info guys....
    S. "

    " I'm pretty disappointed my 9500/XLR8 G3 isn't supported with this release, it reminds me of my experience with MacOS 8.5/8.6/9 and Quadra/PPC upgrades. Hmm, _very_ similar actually. I put a copy of my current OS 9.1 system folder on an external HD, figuring it could be useful to be able to 'kill' that volume in case of 'problems. Using MachID Wannabe set to gestalt 510 (Beige G3), the installer submitted to my bidding and updated that copy system. As the _only_ thing I changed to 'enable' the install was the gestalt ID, I'd say that means the installer relies on gestalt to validate update eligibility.

    After the (default) install I hit the [Restart] button and was rewarded with a nice 'Welcome to OS 9.2' splash-screen for a moment, then a message box 'this Mac is ain't supported by this OS version' or something to that effect. Hmm, must check gestalt at bootup and abort on unsupported Macs, just like OS 8.5/.6/9.0 do with a PPC upgraded Quadra. The cure then was to modify the gusd resource to 'enable' the Mac you want to use. OK, I tried that, replacing the code for the Beige G3 series ([decimal] 510) with [dec.] 67 for my 9500.

    Bingo, the OS started to boot with no message . . . . . until it locked up with an error number 102. I also tried a restart with extensions off, same deal. Oh pooo.

    That's as far as I got with that. I replaced the 9.2.1 system file (and the System Resources file) with the ones from 9.1 and everything mostly works fine. Occasionally there is some wierd scrambled video on a 19" screen driven by an ixMicro Ultimate Rez. The desktop pattern gets all messed up in a (variously sized) horrizontal band, this has happened several times so far. I'm using the v2.00.612 drivers.

    My G3 Desktop accepted the update without a hitch, but as previously noted about 3DFX video cards, my Voodoo3 3000 wouldn't work properly with the new OpenGL drivers. No textures loaded in Rogue Spear and while it was interesting to see, the game was unplayable.

    I'm sure someone with greater expertise than me will figure out what needs to be added or subtracted to get 9.2 to run on older Macs. I'm not happy though that Apple didn't roll support for my 9500 into this release. Kinda looks like they deliberately killed PCI Mac support to prevent us from using OSX 10.1 on 'unsupported' hardware.
    Dan K
    PS: I made a patcher to make it easy to use MacOS 8.5/8.6 on PPC upgraded Quadras, here's a link to my page in case anyone might be interested - http://members.aol.com/dankephoto/ppc_upgrade/86patch.htm "

    " Hello.
    I just did the 9.2.1 update from 9.1 on my PowerMac 4400 with Met@box G3 320 card.
    I followed exactly what I was told to do on the modifying the 9.2.1. installer. I also backed up my original system folder.
    It would not install so I ran GestLab 1.2.2 to change my system ID.
    Here is how. [note - how to use GestLab was noted earlier in this post-Mike]

    When the window opens, after reading all of your system options scroll down the menu till you come across Mach- Machine type. Click on it and in the right window you will see your system with a check mark next to it. Scroll up to machine type 510, PowerMac G3 and click to place a check mark next to it.

    Go to the " Data " menu item and then select " set value of 'mach' and your machine now thinks it is a PowerMac G3.

    Run the modified installer and follow the instructions of force quitting and not restarting as stated in the Modifying the 9.2.1 image option.

    I chose to force quite [quit] but it froze so I had my system 9.1 cd in and started from that. I replaced my "system" folder back into the system folder as directed in Modifying the 9.2.1 image and rebooted.

    The only thing that I had to do was remove the Apple Ethernet extension and replace that with the Ethernet CommII extension and reboot and my system has been fine.

    Total time to complete this operation 30 minutes.
    Now I just wish I knew how to get the splash screen to read OS 9.2.1 instead of 9.1.. anyone want to give me a quick fix in Resedit. though I think I have an idea.
    Leon S. "

    " My system config:
    * Power Mac 9600/300 with 448MB RAM (Virtual Memory off)
    * XLR8 Carrier ZIP with OWC 450MHz G3 copper 1MB cache overclocked to 480MHz at 60MHz bus speed with v2.5 XLR8 MACh Speed Control & Extension
    * ATI Radeon PCI 32MB DDR using the Radeon v1.11 drivers before update
    * Epson Stylus Color 1520 printer (Printer Port) using v5.69E driver with updated Epson extensions and libraries from the latest v6.7aE driver of Epson Stylus Pro 9500
    * Epson Perfection 1200 Photo scanner (USB Port of OrangeMicro OrangeLink FW/USB combo PCI card) using the v5.00A Twain driver from Epson Perfection 1640U scanner and the latest v1.80 Twain Source Manager from ABBYY FineReader 5 Pro 6760

    Installation of Mac OS 9.2.1 is very easy.
    (1) Backup your v9.1 System suitcase and System Resource file. Some system scripts are not in the System file in the 9.1 CD.
    (2) Install the control panel MachineIDwannabe.
    (3) Restart the Mac
    (4) Set your Mach ID to 510 with MachineIDwannbe.
    (5) Insert your bootable Mac OS 9.1 System CD
    (6) Run the Mac OS Installer for v9.2.1 in the mounted image file. Forget the Options setting unless you are not using the Apple Disk Driver (unchecked it then). Customise as you want.
    (7) After the installation is finished, restart with the 'C' key pressed so as to boot from your 9.1 CD.
    (8) Put the new v9.21 System suitcase and System Resource aside somewhere out of the System Folder in case someone can patch them to work in the future.
    (9) Put your previously backed up v9.1 System suitcase and System Resource file into the System Folder.
    (10) Restart and off you go to uncharted territories in great anticipation ! Remember to reset your machine ID back to your original.

    The video display is OK with the installed latest Apple ATI drivers and OpenGL 1.22 & OpenGLRendererATI 1.26, at least with my Diablo II - Lord of Destruction, Majesty and Tropico games.

    There is completely no problem in printing from Office 2001.
    There is no problem in using my scanner from Photoshop 6.

    Haven't tested under OS X as I don't have it installed. Haven't done any speed test as I don't have Quake or Unreal.

    The overall system feels subjectively a bit more stable and faster, otherwise not much noticeable change as compared to 9.1.
    Now only if someone can patch the System file ...
    from Kenny, a long time reader of your excellent site.

    he later wrote

    I think you can do it with Gestlab, just that I happen to have this control panel at hand. It can be downloaded from :

    By the way, if you have followed the discussion in MacFixit forum, someone has finally delivered the necessary information to patch v9.21 System to work for all those machines supported by v9.1 !
    [I recieved an email on this before from Scott Boone, but he retracked the first success story, but sent another that is said to work. I've added it above the two other install methods above-Mike]

    I have run this patched system in my PowerMac with no problem identified, including printing, scanning, gaming & net surfing. Haven't test this with OS X but I read that the unaltered System 9.21 can be run in the Classic BlueBox without a problem in unsupported Mac although it refuses to boot natively.

    Here is a synopsis:

    (1) Copy the entire gusd and gbly resources from 9.1 and paste them into the 9.2.1 system. Answer "yes" to overwrite resources with same id.

    * The gusd is pretty much just a list of "supported" computers' gestalt ID with a corresponding gtbl number. The gtbl entry then goes on to list which gpch-es to load for that machine. Effectively this is a layer of abstraction whereby different machines can call pre-made patch lists. The info in 9.2.1 is a subset of 9.1, so this should retain FULL compatibility with 9.2. * The gply is a bit different, but again it looks like 9.2 is a subset of 9.1.

    (2) Open the gpch. This might be the spot that calls the ptch routines for the rom stuff. The gpch resources in 9.2 are in 9.1, but are changed. There are also a lot "missing" in 9.2. Simply copied all the missing ones from 9.1 and pasted them into 9.2. The resource #s are: 123, 199, 222, 223, 246, 601, 602, 603, 645, 650, 655, 657, 658, 668, 750, 752, 1024.

    * The gpch is simply a go-between that calls certain patches based on the machine ID.
    * I wouldn't recommend simply copying and pasting the whole 9.1 gpch into 9.2, as then any changes made in those other resources wouldn't get made...of course, an argument could be made that they are possibly "unnecessary" for legacy support.

    (3) Up till now, the newly patched System is bootable and MOSTLY functional but Finder Drag & Drop DOESN'T work. All files in your hard disk just stay where they are and can't be moved around. So, the search for the Holy Grail moves on!

    Find your machine's gestalt ID from Apple System Profiler or GestLab. Your gestalt code is probably in decimal...convert it to hex long word (four numerals) such as 0043 (= decimal 67 for the PowerMac 9600). Look up that value 0043 in the 'gusd' 1 list. The next long word (four numerals) will be the corresponding 'gtbl' resource in hex, which is 001A for 0043. Convert that to decimal (001A hex = 26 decimal) and find that numbered resource in 'gtbl'. Open this particular 'gtbl' resource that corresponds to your machine's gestalt. There will be a list of hex numbers in four columns of four digits. Each line specifies a patch that must be loaded for that machine. Lines with FFFF in the third column indicate 'gpch' resources--the fourth column is the hex ID of the resource. Lines with 000E in the first column seem to be 'cfrg' resouces, the fourth column being the ID. Scroll down until you find this hex line: 000E 0000 0000 004C. Place your cursor after the C, and type 000E 0000 0000 004F. Save, close everything up, and swap your systems. Reboot and tell Apple that you have corrected a bug in their System!

    * That 004F line is in all the 9.2.1 supported machine 'gtbl's. It is a call to the cfrg #79 resource that loads the PowerPC native DragLib. Since that cfrg is new in 9.2.1 (DragLib must have been called elsewhere in 9.1--perhaps in 'gpch' 650 or 668) the 'gtbl's that were in there for legacy boxes weren't calling it and hence the Drag & Drop problems.
    * However, for some older machines like the PM 7100 with NuBus slots but not PCI slots, more patch lines may be needed because of more difference in hardware from the Beige G3.

    I think someone is going to write an application to patch each and every gtbl resources for the old machines with the new hex line (000E 0000 0000 004F).
    he later wrote
    Oh, by the way, I have finally composed the necessary patches in a single file to make all PowerMacs supported by 9.1 to be supported again in 9.2.1.

    The patch is at:
    http://homepage.mac.com/cywong/FileSharing.html "

    A reader that reported earlier on this the original install tips wrote regarding printing (a problem one other reader had after the mixed system update)

    " Mike,
    Just to follow up, printing works fine here (Epson Stylus Color 600 via Appletalk USB). I haven't tried IP printing as I don't have a capable printer.

    Browsing through MacFixit site also revealed this gem that I'd not seen before:
    Simply removing the N2MP3 extension fixes the drag-and-drop problem attributed to newer versions of CarbonLib. I'm now running v1.4 without a hitch.

    [I sort of doubt that everyone that had drag and drop problems with carbonlib had that 3rd party extension enabled, but I guess that's possible.-Mike]

    No other negative side-effects to report. I'm very happy with this OS update.
    Thanks, and keep up the great work!
    Rick "

    Another updated report with answers to questions about printing with the mixed system install tip originally posted last week.

    " I've had no printing problems with my Epson Color Inkjet printer. Also, no problems with Performer 6 or MOTU MidiTimePiece.

    I'm sad with Apple's decision to break OldWorld Mac compatibility with 9.2.1; however, this 7500 is getting long in the tooth. I guess it wont be long before I get a new system. The 7500 has been a very reliable machine these past years and it's a testimony to Apple's quality in engineering. I get lots done on it.

    PCI cards from processor to last PCI slot:
    1. ForMac40 Ultra PCI (with factory flash)
    2. USB PCI (generic)
    3. 3dfx Voodoo 5500 PCI (1.1.3 beta driver)

    ADB devices:
    1. Epson Color Stylus II Inkjet printer (Modem Port/GeoPort) or
    2. MOTU MIDI Timepiece with FreeMIDI 1.46 (Modem Port/The button that allows me to connect ADB devices to the Timepiece broke so I change cables when in use. The Timepiece likes the modem port better, go figure).
    3. Supra Express 56K (Printer Port/GeoPort)

    Oh and my RAM is not interleaved and I didn't install QT 5 because it breaks my QT4 pro.

    My system config:
    Power Mac 7500
    672MB RAM (Virtual Memory off/non-interleaved)
    XLR8 Mach carrier (XLR8 MACh Speed Control 2.5.0)
    OWC ZIF 500MHz G3 1MB cache (Running at 525MHz)
    3dfx Voodoo 5500 PCI using 1.1.3 beta driver (640x480 at 120Mhz)
    19" Sony CRT Monitor (E400)
    Microsoft IntelliMouse with USB Overdrive 1.3.7

    P.S. Thanks for the great info. You have saved my sanity on lots of occasions.
    Ceaser "

    " Mike,
    I successfully installed 9.2.1 on 7500, w Sonnet g3, 194 Ram, original HD and ext. USB HD, OSX and 9.1, ATI Radeon PCI(only works from 9.1) Changed the IncompatHW to Welcome, changed the mach ID using Gestlab. Finally figured how. Going to menu and find change mach. [Note - instructions for using Gestlab were posted above-Mike]

    Tried to not replace system file as instructed, and OS 9.2 would not boot got message. 9.2 would not run on this machine. So booted from cd and replaced System file as instructed to earlier from other posts. So far everything seems about the same under OSX and 9.x.

    BTW did anyone ever figure out how to get a Radeon PCI to work on pre g3 macs under OSX?????????????? I would really appreciate any hints on this. I pursued it vigorously for a while and gave up. But OSX is almost unusable for any type of graphics without a accelerated graphics card. So If I cannot get a Better graphics card to work. I will be forced to give up or Upgrade which I have avoided on principle because Apple has tried to lock out us with older machines. Which I think is A LARGE SLAP IN THE FACE to people who have spent a fortune on PCI macs only to be arbitrarily shut out. I am almost at the point of completely giving up any loyalty to MAC!

    I suggested he check the OS X and/or video cards section of the forums here. I've not tried using OS X with a PCI radeon personally.

    [8/24/2001 reports follow]

    " I was unable to trick the installer into running on my Performa 6116CD with Sonnet Crescendo 240 upgrade. I resorted to TomeViewer and moved about 300 of the 500+ files onto my system. The only glitch I ran into was that my system wouldn't boot with the 9.2.1 version of "Apple Menu Options". Going back to the 9.1 version was fine. I've spent a day or so running most of my normal software without a problem and have only had a couple of Netscape 6.1 crashes, fewer than normal.

    Now if they would just take the Nubus Mac support from MKLinux and put it into OS X, I'd be golden...
    Jim R.
    (he later replied)
    I've got a DeskJet 670C hooked up to my Linux fileserver that I've printed to using the new Laserwriter 8 driver without any problems. Anything specific people I seeing as problems? Anyone else mention the Apple Menu Options startup crash?
    Jim "

    Trash the Apple Menu Options prefs file. I saw even on a PB G4 here that this caused an error - Norton's disk doctor noted a corrupted Apple Menu Options Prefs file. Trashing the prefs file fixed the problem.

    Tips on using GestLab noted in the first install tip:

    " Mike,
    I noticed several readers have not been able to figure out how to use GestLab to change the Mach number. I too found the "documentation" not very helpful but I did manage to figure out how to get it done.

    After the program finishes creating its data base, one must scroll down to the entry that says Mach Machine type. Select it, then go to the menu bar DATA. One of the choices is "set value of Mach" Set this to 510... Hope this helps. This method is much simpler than the second method and worked very well for me. I just wish some enterprising reader would come up with a way to use the 9.2.1 suitcase.
    Bruce "

    Printing problems noted by this reader with the "mixed" system install:

    " I tried the first method on a 9600/G4 400 and the installer ran, but the computer froze at the smiley mac when rebooted.

    So I then swappped the system file out for a 9.1 system file, as suggested in the second method and the computer appeared to run just fine, until I tried to print something via my LPR printer (I have a cable modem so I can't get an Appletalk address reliably so generally Appletalk is off on my computer). Nothing I did could make the computer print successfully via LPR (TCP/IP printer) so I'm now back at OS 9.1. "

    " Mike,
    Since one reader reported Gestalt change did not by itself allow 9.2 installation, I tried the second method (after backing up my system folder). I'm using a 7600 w/XLR8 Carrier Zif, OWC 450-G3 processor. As others have reported, Initial attempt does disk check and driver update fine, but throws an error that says "MacOS Installer does not recognize this computer . . . " I then changed the machine gestalt to ID 510. This gets the installer past the sticking point and begins to install the update. I encountered a couple of errors part way in ("Problem reading Installation Tome" and "Problem reading sourcefile 'ARA Archive'), forcing retries and one restart from CD (which necessitated adjusting the gestalt one more time). Installation then completed successfully, I replaced the System file with the 9.1 version and rebooted successfully.

    The updater replaces CarbonLib with version 1.4, which seems to cripple drag-and-drop functions in the Finder on my machine (this has been the case with every version from 1.3.1 onward, including the various betas that have been released). Going back to v1.2.5 still fixes the problem, thankfully. Also needed to drop in the older versions of OpenGL extensions for my Voodoo 3 card.

    System seems to be working fine, boots faster, and the update has cured a longstanding problem I encountered (with non-enabled backside cache) after installation of a VST UltraTek PCI IDE Adapter Card. This workaround is not for the faint of heart, but apparently survivable.
    Rick S. "

    " Hello Mike, you right wont install in the older system and realy system file is not compatable with older Mac.
    So i replaced all file with upgrade from tome viewer and put in separate folder but first i copy all system 9.1 to my orb drive in case something fail me and i restarted with system file 9.1 left on the drive with all file upgrade from 9.2.1
    all file work fine no conflict yet i repaired with tech tool 3.0.4 optimize all system and i restarted back everthing work beautifull I CAN LEAVE YOU A PICTURE AND YOU WILL SEE IN CONFLICT CATCHER THAT I ADDED ALL FILE FROM THE 9.2.1
    Adrian "

    I asked Adrian if he was able to print.
    [The screenshots he sent were too large to post on a web page.]

    " I tried installing Mac OS 9.2.1 on my Power Mac 7500 using instructions found on the net. Nothing worked.

    GestLab 1.2.2 with GestLab Database crashed my system. "This thing looks dangerous", I though when I was exploring it. "One false move and POW!!!!" Anyway....

    I used to be an ADC member when Mac OS 8.5 was new. So, I dug up an old Apple Installer SDK. In it I found a control panel called "MacIDwannabe" and installed that into my control panels folder.

    I then changed the Machine ID of my 7500 from 68 to 510, double clicked on the ROM installer of 9.2.1 and wham!!!, all went well.

    I did have problems with the system file but that was easy to fix. I just booted from Mac OS 9.1 CD, copied the system file from my backup and all was right as rain.

    The only problem I found is that Hardon/Kardon soundsticks don't work. Otherwise, 9.2.1 seems faster than 9.1. Unreal Tournament feels better. I'm getting more frags as a result. TCP and Remote Access are more stable and I'm not getting fragmented memory when I disconnect from the net or when I quit memory intense apps like Photoshop 5.5 and Unreal Tournament.

    My system config:
    Power Mac 7500
    672MB RAM (Virtual Memory off)
    XLR8 Mach carrier
    OWC 500MHz G3 1MB cache
    3dfx Voodoo 5500 PCI using their last beta driver
    19 Sony CRT Monitor (E400)
    Microsoft IntelliMouse with USB Overdrive's latest driver
    Ceaser M.
    [I asked him to verify what version of OpenGL he was using - it turned out he was running UT in Glide mode as I suspected, and later noted OpenGL mode games were a problem with the Voodoo card and OS 9.2.1's install of OpenGL 1.2.2 as noted earlier here-Mike]

    You were right about UT and Glide. "My Bad".
    I installed Quake3 (quake3-MacClassic-129f-BETA) and BOOM!!! Crashed big time. I tried the Demo and the original install with same results. I interlaced my memory, still crashed. I even removed OpenGL 1.2.2 and tried it with all versions. Still no luck.

    I guess MacOS 9.2.1 won't be of much use for us old timers. Back to 9.1.
    Silver Bullet, here I come!
    Ceaser "

    " I managed to get OS 9.2.1 installed on my 8500 (Metabox G4 450 upgrade card installed), but it doesn't run natively. Somehow my install of OS 9.1 got corrupted and I had to do a clean install. (There is no relation between this and trying to get OS 9.2.1 installed.) I booted from the OS 9.1 cd and did a clean install. Without rebooting I applied the 9.2.1 update. To get the update to run I used GestLab and set my machine id to 910. The installer ran without a hitch. I think I told it to update my disk driver as well. [the default install is set to update drivers on disks that have Apple drivers previously-Mike]

    When I rebooted my machine after installing I was told that the startup disk was not compatible with my Mac. Since that didn't work I booted back into MacOS X to try using the fresh 9.2.1 install for my Classic startup volume. Classic started up without any problems and started off with the MacOS Setup Assistant.

    I suspect that when OS 9.x is running in Classic, that all platforms look the same, no matter what the underlying hardware really is. Here is what the OS 9.2.1 System Profiler identifies my machine as:

    Hardware overview
    Machine ID: 1206 MacOS-009 3.0 debug May 16 2001, 18:07:1
    Model names: Classic Mac OS Compatibility
    Keyboard type: Apple Extended Keyboard
    Processor info: PowerPC G4
    Machine speed: about 446 MHz
    Nanokernel version: 2.21
    Nanokernel pool extends: 0
    Nanokernel scheduled CPUs:1

    It may just be my imagination, but switching between applications in Classic by clicking on an application's open window appears to be much more responsive than it was in OS 9.1.
    -Jesse F. "

    I also asked Jesse to see if he could print in OS 9.2.1.

    " Mike, Tried the second method on a PM 9600/200MP and I got a message syaing something to the extent of that "this computer is not recognized by this installer." I am very interested to see if that original poster of that method did any other techniques before installing? Perhaps, replacing extensions with thoese of OS 9.1?
    Michael D. "

    One reader noted his IXMicro Ultimate Rez card had problems with the update.

    " I have successfully installed OS 9.2.1 on my PTP 225 [PowerTower Pro] with an OWC G3 overclocked to 400 MHz. I did this on an external SCSI drive. I used the first method of changing the Mach ID to 510. The installer worked fine. After the install, which was done when the machine was booted up on another drive, I changed the system suitcase back to 9.1 and discarded the 9.2.1 system suitcase. I then rebooted, still on the original 9.1 system. After start-up I went to the Startup Disk Control Panel and selected the new hybrid 9.1 - 9.2.1 drive, selected it, and rebooted. It came up with no problems and everything seems to be working.

    I have a Rage Orion video card, 160 MB of RAM, I have Roadrunner cable for internet access and use a homenet home network to share internet access with my wife's PC. Homenet uses Surfdoubler (7.01). I use Eudora 5.1 for mail. I have been playing with the new OS for several hours now, and no problems.
    -- Bruce
    I asked Bruce if he had tried printing and he replied]

    Yes, I can print. The system appears stable so far. If I run into anything I will let you know. Normally, I am more cautious than to update the first day. I think I have felt left out by not being willing to play with OS X and decided to give this a try. When it was stable on an external SCSI drive, I installed it on my main drives, which are RAID mirrors using FWB. "

    " I did this and it did work, the installer did install on my Mac 6500 with an upgrade card to a G3/400MHz. On reboot my Mac OS 9.2.1 stopped and said it is not for this Mac. Is there a way to get GestLab to save its settings so the Mac will always think itÕs a G3 Power Mac...? This Program is not too easy to understand so any advice can be helpful...
    William R. "

    The 6500 with a L2 cache slot upgrade may not even work at all with any tricks, since the upgrade's enabling software may not be compatible.

    " Hi Mike,
    I tried the second (file rename) method on my 8600/G3 350 (tried the other one too, but couldn't figure out how to use GestLab). With the second method, the installer started fine then said it couldn't recognize my machine. Don't know if this is a gestalt ID problem or what. Just wondered if there has been an update to these methods.
    Jeff R. "

    [8/23/2001 comments follow]

    " Installing 9.2.1 on Pre-G3 machines
    Ok, I managed to install with the long version as described, after throwing out and replacing those two scripts (not the gestaldt) but I had to do a few additional things:

    1. go to: MacOS 9.2.1 Update / software installers / upgrader files, find and throw out: "CleanupApp", "CleanupDoc", and "StartCleanDoc"

    2. Replace them with identical files from OS 9.1 Update, same location.

    3. Don't restart before trashing System file 9.2.1 AND System Resources 9.2.1, replacing the two with 9.1 versions.


    At this point you are not really running a clean 9.2.1 but a kind of a Hybreed 9.2.1 / 9.1
    Comments welcome
    [I asked if he had tried to print and he wrote

    Hello Mike,
    Yes I have. No problems, Epson stylus color 640 USB connection via USB to Parallel cable
    rampel "

    " Mike
    I tried to install 9.2.1 on an upgraded Mac 8500. I used MachID and changed the Gestalt Id to 510, which I believe is the ID for the beige G3. I then ran the installer which worked, but hung several times requiring a force Quit and then to try again. Upon completion I rebooted and arrived with a screen which told my this "hard drive can not be used with this Macintosh"

    I was then unable to boot from a CD or a Zip drive. Had to pull the hard drive and install an external drive to get the system up and running, but back at 9.1. I have not tried any other method, as the time required to remove hard drives and reinstall was way to long to keep playing. I may try tomb viewer to pull the updates to extensions and control panels and see if they work with system 9.1. I will forward results to you as I obtain them
    Sam "

    " I am using a PPC 9600/200 running a XLR8 Carrier Zif with a Apple G4 350 Mhz processor.

    I tried the second method. It ran as far as updating the Drivers then said it could not update my secondary drives driver so I clicked continue. It ran about 10 seconds more then said it did not recognize this computer.

    I went back and disabled the update drivers, then choose a custom install. This time it ran about 5 seconds and again said that this computer could not be recognized. At this point I gave up.

    I then extracted the ATI drivers from the Tome with Tome Viewer and installed them. I did this to try to resolve a problem I have been having with Photoshop 6.01 freezing and crashing my system. I will be testing to see if this will resolve the Photoshop problem.
    Thank you.
    Julio C. "

    I welcome other reader feedback on this tip. Email me with your experience and system details. Please note which of the two methods you used. *Remember to backup all your existing data before attempting any of these procedures.*

    Return to Main News Page

    Mac Notebook Upgrades

    (Ad/Sale items)

    = UPGRADES by Mac =
    Upgrades just for
    YOUR Mac!

    = Used Macs =
    (Click for List)

    SSDs from under $50!
    Fast SSDs for Most Macs/PCs

    = ThunderBolt =
    Drives & More

    Up to 6 TB HDs!
    Hitachi, WD, Seagate, Samsung HDs

    = 2.5in HDs & SSDs =
    Notebook Hard Drives and DIY drive/case kit bundles

    = MEMORY =
    Lifetime warranty RAM Upgrades!

    Internal and External Superdrives/Blu-Ray drives

    = VIDEO/LCDs/TV =
    Graphics cards, TV tuners, DVR, adapters and more.

    = SOFTWARE =
    Apps, Utilities, OS, VM, Games and more

    = WIRELESS =
    WiFi and Bluetooth Devices/Adapters/More

    = Repair Service =
    for iPhone, iPad, Macs

    = iPad/iPhone/iPod =
    Accessories, Cases, Repairs & More

    NuGuard iPhone Case *Extreme* Drop Tested!

    XLR8YourMac T-Shirts


    Help Fight Hunger

    = back to www.XLR8YOURMAC.com =

    = Other Site Topic Areas =
    Mac Mods/Upgrades | CPU Upgrades | Storage | Video | Audio/HT | Misc/Software | Search | Recent

    Copyright © , 1997-2014. All Rights Reserved
    All brand or product names mentioned are properties of their respective companies.

    Legal: Site Privacy and terms/conditions of use.