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OS X 10.2.8 Feedback/Problem Reports/TipsReturn to News Page

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Reader Reports on (first release) OS X 10.2.8
Posted: 9/22/2003
Last Updated: 9/24/2003

= Categories of Reports =
= USB 2.0/FW/PCI/PCcards | Ethernet/Networking Related | Firewire | Software/Addons =

10.2.8 Update Re-released (Build): On Oct. 3rd, 2003 apple released a revised build of 10.2.8 (build 6R73) to address the Ethernet and battery status problems seen by some with the original 10.2.8 build (which was pulled). Thanks to a heads-up from Matthew Cullmore, checking Software Updates today shows a revised release of 10.2.8 (build 6R73) is now available. (As before - there's a special version required for G5 Macs.) On a system running 10.2.6, you get the full verbage on the changes, but on a system with the original 10.2.8 update applied - you get only this list of changes:

" The 10.2.8 Update (Build 6R73) includes an updated ethernet driver for 450MHz and 500MHz dual processor Power Mac G4 desktop systems and an update to the battery status menu. "

Hopefully this will solve the Ethernet/networking and other issues reported here (below) with the original 10.2.8 release, although in general it was ok on my PB G4/800. (I didn't update any other Macs.)
The Combo 10.2.8 update is also available at

Note: Reader reports (G5, G4, G3 owners) on 10.2.8 Build 6R73 is on this page.

(Info/reports below were from the original 10.2.8 release)

10.2.8 Update Pulled I've been offline for hours today (car repairs) but included in another flood of 10.2.8 related emails (not all problems, but many are) was a note about 10.2.8 being pulled. As a test I fired up a 10.2.6 G4 tower and ran Software Updates - 10.2.8 didn't appear in the listing. Checking the Kbase doc w/10.2.8 installer shows it's still there as of about 5PM Eastern Time. (Update: Both the standard and the combo 10.2.8 updaters have been pulled as of 6PM Eastern Time on 10/23/2003.)
For those that installed 10.2.8 and had problems and haven't already done so - Gregory Swain sent a link to his step-by-step guide to Downgrading from the Mac OS X 10.2.8 Update to Mac OS X 10.2.6

(Info on 10.2.8 from the Apple Kbase doc. Here's the Kbase doc w/10.2.8 installer)

" The 10.2.8 Update delivers enhanced functionality and improved reliability for the following applications, services and technologies: Audio, Bluetooth, Classic compatibility, Finder, Graphics, LDAP, Power Management, Safari, and FireWire and USB device compatibility.
The update also provides updated security services and includes the latest Security Updates. (Note - see this Apple security Kbase doc for info on fixes to SSH, Sendmail, fb_realpath and arplookup)

For detailed information on this Update, please visit this website:

(that kbase doc notes the following changes:)

These are some of the enhancements that are a part of the Mac OS X 10.2.8 Update:

* Windows on external displays connected to some PowerBook computers are drawn better.
* The Bluetooth menu bar item works better when a Bluetooth USB adapter is disconnected and reconnected.
* Addresses a situation in which an external FireWire storage device would not become available (mount) and this message would appear: "A disk attempting to mount as 'unknown' has failed. Please use Disk Utility to check the disk."
* Addresses an issue in which some Bluetooth devices may not be available after the computer wakes from sleep.
* Addresses an issue in which some Bluetooth keyboards may show a delayed response when you press a key after the computer wakes from sleep.
* Addresses an issue in which some iBook computers could make a clicking sound when using Mac OS X 10.2.5 or 10.2.6.
* Reduces a potential delay when removing some devices from the Bluetooth pairing list.
* Addresses a potential issue in which an audio application can unexpectedly quit when a USB- or FireWire-based audio device is disconnected.
* Bluetooth preferences correctly displays the Bluetooth menu bar item's status if the item was enabled elsewhere.
* Includes several enhancements for Safari.
* Includes support for USB 2.0 devices, including PCI and PC cards for computers that do not include USB 2.0 hardware. "

The linked Kbase doc notes it's not for the PowerMac G5 models however. (I ran SU several times also on the Dual G5, which has a 10.2.7 build for G5s and nothing shows up. Perhaps a later/different version will be released for G5s.) The kbase doc (note 1) also mentions possible problems if you've installed 3rd party system mods. I'd also run repair permissions after any OS X update.

Note: Remember if you installed a modified Device-Plugin file that the update will likely overwrite it - requiring a reinstall of the modified plugin if 10.2.8 does not add native support. (It should for the Pioneer DVR-106 for instance.) The easiest way to reapply a drive support patch is probably just to use PatchBurn
I welcome reader reports on 10.2.8 (pros/cons, any issues or fixes you see, etc. - please include system details such as any installed 3rd party drivers or cards, etc. you have).

OS X 10.2.8 Combo Updater: (will update any 10.2 version to 10.2.8) In the past the Combo update sometimes fixed odd problems seen from the standard updater. The 10.2.8 combo update is available at http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=120244 . If anyone finds the Combo Update fixes any problems they had with the standard updater, let me know.

Notes on Added Drive Model Burn Support in 10.2.8 adds Pioneer DVR-106 Support:

  • Pioneer DVR-106 (A06) DVD recorder
  • LG GCC-4480B Combo drive (48x24x48x + 16x DVD-ROM)
  • TDK Indi440N DVD recorder
Davide G. wrote that as expected, 10.2.8 does add native burn support for the Pioneer DVR-106/A06, so you won't need to reinstall the previous modified file here for 10.2.6. When the first Dual G5 shipped with a DVR-106D as the OEM superdrive (and of course had native 10.2.7 iApps burn support), it was expected that 10.2.8 would also have burn support. (Most single G5s so far have had the Sony OEM DW-U10A drive, which has been natively supported for some time in OS X. So far all Dual G5 reports I know of said they had the DVR-106D Pioneer drive, but that could vary by build.)

Samsung 232B CDRW Problem: Normally either repatching the 'brand' plugin (or using Patchburn) after the OS X update should work, but not for this drive according to this reader:

"Mike, I just updated to 10.2.8 and of course, lost my modified plugin for my Samsung CDR/CDRW SW-232B. I've reinstalled the modified plugin and have tried PatchBurn to no avail. I guess it's back to Toast until a updated PatchBurn or a new plugin appears.
Sawtooth G4 (1Ghz, 1.5Gb of RAM, 2 HD's, Radeon 8500 Retail, Samsung 232B CDRW)
Thanks again for the amazing site, Carl"

If anyone else sees a similar problem, let me know (include drive details, etc.)
One reader with a TDK Indi440N DVD Burner (Firewire cased used w/G4 Cube) said 10.2.8 added native burn support (iTunes, db, etc.)

Reader Reports (on first 10.2.8 release) (NOTE: Reader reports (G5, G4, G3 owners) on revised 10.2.8 Build 6R73 release is on this page.)

PB G3 Lombard Display Problems: Just posting as a FYI to anyone that did the previous RagePro driver mod (but you'd think that 10.2.8 would overwrite the file, unless it's a prefs issue). I asked if this reader was using the Haxial "Application Enhancer (APE)" which another Lombard owner reported below as causing display problems after the 10.2.8 update. (removing it solved the problem.) A total of 4 PB G3 Lombard (1999) model owners have reported video display problems so far with 10.2.8.

(added 9/23/2003)
" Today after installing 10.2.8 update on my Lombard, it crashed on me badly several times. Each time it was accompanied by the garbled display, which made me think...
I finally checked and there it was, the infamous patch for Rage LT Pro chipset acceleration. It survived several OS upgrades and worked fine, but 10.2.8 definitely breaks it. So all you Lombard owners out there, remove the patch before upgrading or postpone it if you can't live without it.
(I asked if he was running APE and if the file wasn't overwritten by 10.2.8 - it should be)
I would too, but I have found the 0x4c491002 code in the plist (prefs?) file. The only other possibility is that it is there by default, but I doubt it. Maybe you can check it in your install?
Anyway, since I removed it I haven't experienced any more crashes.
No, I don't use APE, in fact I keep my system as slim as possible (which is understandable :))
I also has a 10.2 reinstall about 6 weeks ago. "

Another (the 3rd) Lombard owner wrote:

Big video problems on my Lombard G3 333 after installing the 10.2.8 update. Installed last night and all seemed well until this morning. In the middle of unstuffing a file, my display suddenly became corrupted, with vertical lines and heavily washed-out colors, and just-barely readable text that seemed to be rendered at a lower resolution. I was forced to do a keyboard reset, and the system came back up normally. I immediately attempted a permissions repair, but halfway through the display wigged out again. Another reboot, this time into single-user mode, fixing one disc problem, but nothing unusual. Half an hour later, while trying to connect to my G4 through my home network, the display (this time) just went black.

I followed this up with a reboot and PRAM reset, which dropped me into OS9,2 - argggh. Interestingly, the display in OS9 now has a noticeable flicker, as if it is using a lower refresh rate. A reboot into 10.2.8 makes me realize that the refresh rate problem seems to exist there too, just not as noticeable (due to X's antialiasing routines?)

Perhaps my video circuitry is just beginning to fail, but it seems more than circumstantial, as I've never had a problem before. I'll wait to see other users' feedback before reinstalling 10.2, but this has been a sobering experience. The only non-standard addition to my system is an Orinoco Silver PCMCIA 802.11b card with the open-source wireless driver software (which continues to work perfectly well in 10.2.8 BTW).
I've since shut down the Lombard and started again - so far, so good (two hours now). I'll report back if the problem recurs ..
-- Rick S
(I asked if he had previously used the driver mod and/or APE)
Yes, I did do the ragepro hack (a year ago?), but as you say, it should have been overwritten quite a while ago . . . I believe I stopped using it after applying 10.2.5 update. (I doubt that is the real problem)

I also have APE installed; still waiting to see if the shutdown/PRAM reset has fixed the problem. If it occurs again I will remove all APE modules and try again. I noticed another Lombard owner on MacLaunch's "G-Books" mailing list complaining of their machine going 'colour mental' after the update - good description, wish I'd thought of it.
No sooner had I sent my last message, then I got a kernel panic on the Lombard. This is beginning to look ugly. I'll send another update later. . ." the 4th Lombard owner (video garbled) problem report with 10.2.8 - this one noting removing a 256MB SODIMM helped:

"Hi Mike,
I installed OS X 10.2.8 update on my 400 Mhz G3 Lombard and while repairing disk permissions I got a garbled display and after a short while the computer crashed just like others have reported. I had to take out one of the 256MB SODIMM modules (which btw worked fine for almost a year) and then the computer worked without any problem but slower as I started to get lots of page outs.

I didn't use the RageProLT patch as it is not necessary since the 10.2.5 update and neither APE whatever that is.

This is definitely an Apple bug which they will never fix as Lombards have never been tested with more than 392MB RAM.
Thanks for a great site,

KVM Switches:

(added 9/23/2003)
" I've been using a KVM switch between 3 Macs and all was well until 10.2.8. Fortunately, I've only upgraded one of my Macs to 10.2.8 (the others are still on 10.2.6). When I switch to the 10.2.8 machine, I get a video signal on the monitor, but keyboard and mouse are dead. Switching back to either of the other machines will bring back both the keyboard and mouse.

My configuration:
Pismo with 10.2.6
TiBook G4/1GHz with 10.2.8
Dual G4/1.25 GHz (June '03) with 10.2.6
Microsoft Internet Keyboard Pro
Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical
Dr. Bott Moniswitch 4 (USB)
-Jerome B "

Firewire Issues:

(added 9/23/2003)
" I don't know if this is the proper email address to report these things, but if its not please forgive me and forward, tia. I have a MOTU 828 interface and after installing 10.2.8 this morning My Dual gig, MD G4 crashes big time with the multinational notice stating restart is required. (Kernel Panic)
The machine is fine until I plug in the firewire cable and turn on my 828. Thanks for the 'bandwidth' -jeff
www.steelrain.org "

The only 10.2.8 updated system I have is the PB G4/800 and hot-plugging a portable oxford911 bridge Firewire drive works ok (no KP's, accessable, etc.)

(added 9/23/2003)
" After installing OS 10.2.8 on my Daul G4/1.2.5 FW 800 running OS 10.2.6 (very clean system, no PCI cards, very few 3rd party extensions), the system would stall at "waiting for Local Disks" in the boot process.
I isolated the problem to be a double-drive Firewire device (using Initio bridgeboard purchased from Firewire Depot, with a master and slave device connected on the same bridge board). If the drive is powered up before the boot process hits that point, the computer stalls indefinitely.

When you turn off the drive, the boot process resumes. However, one of the volumes then doesn't mount.
It is not all Firewire devices that cause this... My Sony VX2000 doesn't cause this behaviour.

I should note that when the drive is off all the way until the desktop appears and then switched on, the computer has no problems, and both volumes appear. It is only if I have the drive on at initial boot, power down and then back up that I lose the 2nd volume (same each time).
I did fsck, reset-nvram, repairing permissions. No fix.

Incidentally, something NOT fixed in OS 10.2.8 -- with both Oxford 911 and Initio bridge boards, when I have a master and slave connected to the bridge board Apple System Profiler will not open--- crashes every time.
I have tested this on multiple Macs with multiple bridge boards.

At boot I have to reset my monitor prefs... My Dual G4/1.25 with OS 10.2.8 forgets screen sizes and reverses the arrangement of the 2 monitors. Has happened yesterday and today. Someone on MacCentral reported this same behaviour.
Thanks, Graham J. "

(added 9/23/2003)
" Ahoi from Germany,
my 14" 800 MHz ibook has no problem with 10.2.8 yet (ethernet connection to our local Linux/windows network ok, no peripherals), and the bloody annoying klicking sound during batterie use has FINALLY stopped.
cheers, Kai CRM Coastal Research & Management "

PCI Card/PC Card Related:

(added 9/23/2003)
" Mike, I think another reader had the same issue I have, but on their Dual G4 500. I have a:
- Rev 1. B&W G3 upgraded with a Powerlogix 800 G3 ZIF
- SIIG ATA/133 (non-RAID) card with a WD 20GB ATA/100 drive connected to it
- a Samsung DVD and internal ZIP 100
- an Adaptec 2930 UW SCSI card with a Quantum Viking II drive
- while the original 6 GB drive is connected to the on-board IDE port (I just use it for file storage)
- and Radeon 7000 PCI
- all running on 1 GB of RAM
- 10.2.6 *was* rock solid. I have the OSX "deep sleep" driver installed for the SIIG card and the Adaptec utility for the SCSI card. I probably should have pulled both before hand, but didn't think anything of it.

About 1/3 of the way through the upgrade, I recieved an error message (none like I had ever seen before - middle of the screen with the rest of the screen "grayed" out) asking me to press the power button to restart the computer - it almost appeared to be generated from Open Firmware or something - it appeared very "arcane". I did so and upon reboot (I was expecting to be brought back to a point where I could finish the update), I just recieved the Apple logo with the "spinner" towards the bottom.
I left it for about an hour (always hopeful!) and nothing; I ended up reinstalling Jaguar and back to 10.2.6 on the original drive. I will try booting from that drive and attempt updating 10.2.6 on the 20GB drive. I am going to remove and install some other cards (removing the Adaptec card for a USB 2.0 card and adding another HD to the SIIG card). Maybe I should try a "vanilla" approach to the upgrade with just video and the HD connected to onboard.
Dimitrios S.
Emerson Process Management "

USB 2.0 PCI card/PC card Reports:

(added 9/23/2003)
" Hi Mike,
The upgrade *may* added usb2 supports on my box. I don't have any usb2 device to test with right away, but will try later.

This is the ioreg output. It shows EHCI USB device.....

(lost the indenting - pre tags force safari web page to a mile wide)

    +-o pci2098,2000@9,2 <class IOPCIDevice, busy 0, retain count 11>
    +-o IOService <class IOService, busy 0, retain count 4>
    +-o AppleUSBEHCI <class AppleUSBEHCI, busy 0, retain count 7>
    +-o EHCI Root Hub Simulation@9,2 <class IOUSBRootHubDevice, busy 0, retain count 9>
    +-o AppleUSBHub <class AppleUSBHub, busy 0, retain count 4>
    +-o IOUSBInterface@0 <class IOUSBInterface, busy 0, retain count 5>
    +-o IOUSBUserClientInit <class IOUSBUserClientInit, busy 0, retain count 4>

PM9600, G3/333MHz, 768M RAM. buit-in SCSI HD. 'NO-NAME' USB2/FW PCI card. Love your site.
kin-kwok "

Listing this report here as well as the Ethernet section since it has info on both.

(added 9/23/2003)
" Mike
I have an ADS USB Turbo 2.0 PCI card (USBX-2000-EF). Under 10.2.6 I was running it using the OrangeMicro drivers. After updating to 10.2.8 my USB2.0 devices are now recognized in ASP as high speed (USB2.0) rather than full speed (USB1.1). A folder with 13.6 MB of files takes 29 seconds to write to a CF card with a USB1.1 adapter, 14 seconds with the OrangeMicro driver under 10.2.6 on a USB2.0 adapter, and 10 seconds on the same adapter with 10.2.8.

I am also on an ADSL modem and have had no problems with my internet connection after the upgrade.

Gigabit 400MHz G4, 448MB RAM, GeF2MX, Adaptec 2906 SCSI (only used for tape backup, haven't tested yet), 3com ADSL modem, Linksys Etherfast Cable/DSL router.
Michael C. "

See the Ethernet section below for other reports including several Gigabit owners that had problems with 10.2.8. (not sure why)

(added 9/23/2003)
" I found an interesting feature of the USB 2.0 support added in 10.2.8. Try the system profiler. Where it previously described USB devices as "full" or "low" speed, it now lists my USB2 Epson scanner as "high" when connected to the ports on the D-link FW+USB2 PCI card in my B&W G3. I'll test the throughput this weekend.
BTW, it's thanks to your site that I knew to try a PCI card to fix problems with my Firewire CD-RW introduced with MacOS 10.1.5. Thanks!

" Well, my IOGear USB 2 PCI card works after the update, but not at USB 2 high speed. Installing the latest drivers for my card over the OS X 10.2.8 update does not give me back high speed, either. Just an extra pair of USB 1.1 ports for now...
Snodman "

Here's a more positive USB 2.0 PCcard report:

" Updated during the night (European time) and I was thrilled about what was said in the Knowledge base about USB 2.0 PC card support. After the update I checked the Apple System Profiler and was hoping to see something about "USB 2.0", under devices for my USB 2.0 PC card (PCMCIA) from Double-H, that I bought on Ebay for 9 bucks - no such luck. They have have no drivers at the company site. But as I hooked up my Epson Perfection 2400 Photo scanner and did some (very unscientific) tests, I realize that the card is working for the first time! A 22 Mb image scan took around two-three minutes or more before and now takes less than 10 seconds!
I'm a very happy camper! Fredrik
(he later wrote)
Sorry for missing to write the computer model, it works on both a TiBook, 1Ghz and a Pismo 500. "

This reader with USB 2.0 and FW800 cards noted a problem:

" Hi Mike, Mac OS X 10.2.8 crashed my drive to the ground. I have an ATA card a usb 2.0 card, and a FW800 card. Not sure the issue yet but it is apparent 10.2.8 is going to be a problem.
(I asked for more details - card brands/models, mac model, etc.)
I have a G4 500 Dual 4.5GB memory with an
WiebeTECH Fire800 PCI
ATI 8500 AGP) video card

I tried removing cards but no change. Drive still just sits with apple logo on screen and goes no further after restarting with OS X 10.2.8.
I am now reformatting the drive and going back to 10.2.6. I'll wait and try the combo updater when it is available for 10.2.8. "

Revolution 7.1 Card Not Recognized (Kernel Ext. not loading) Update: M-Audio now has a fix for this with Driver version 1.2.7:

" Howdy, I haven't seen this pop up on VersionTracker yet. M-Audio has posted a new driver for the Revolution 7.1 PCI audio card, driver version 1.2.7) which works under Mac OS 10.2.8, (even though Apple has pulled their update!?)

I installed the driver, which required a restart, and didn't have to change any options/preferences the card auto detects now and I have my REAL sound back!

Revolution card owners can grab the new driver at:
and select the Revolution card and the Mac OS Jaguar OS selection and get the new driver, notes say it's ready for 10.3/Panther too! Kudos to M-Audio for crankin' out a fix so fast!
Best, Kent S."

Ethernet and DSL/Cable Modem Reports
I've just tested Ethernet on my PB G4 and it's working fine after the 10.2.8 update - tested with a Router (using DHCP) connected to a Cable modem. Some were not so lucky however, at least some older G4 tower owners. (If you've disconnected/reconnected the Ethernet cable after the problem appeared, check the pins in the Ethernet jack to see if they are bent. In the past I've had several iBook/PB owners report Enet problems that were due to a bent pin - of course if the problem happened immediately after the 10.2.8 update w/o removing the cable that's not the issue.) I don't know why some Gigabit G4s for instance had the problem and others not (even w/o addon software, repair permissions run, etc. - assuming the system firmware was up-to-date.)

For those w/Ethernet Problems w/10.2.8: (Update 9/25/2003) Apple has posted a kbase doc titled Mac OS X 10.2.8: Can't Connect via Ethernet After Installing Update that includes notes on affected mac models and tips for those that had Ethernet port/networking problems.
(Tip from the Tuesday news page follows)
I can't say I like the idea of this (installing a 10.2.6 file in 10.2.8) but for those with no other choice or don't want to wait to see if Apple releases a fix - here's a reader note/tip:

" Here's the actual URL of the post below:
Here's the post with file link:

RE: OS 10.2.8 Upgrade Killed Network Connection
(msg # 10.: Posted Sep 22, 03 8:51 pm)

I had the same problem, (no Ethernet after 10.2.8) but I'm now happily back online. Here's the fix:

The AppleGMACEthernet.kext driver in /System/Library/Extensions has been updated from 1.2.4 to 1.3.0. The 1.3.0 version apparently breaks the onboard ethernet somehow. I found someone who had not yet installed the update, and copied their kext to a CD. To install it, back up your existing kext to your home directory, and then go to the terminal:

cd /System/Library/Extensions
  sudo rm -Rf AppleGMACEthernet.tar.gz
  sudo cp -r /path/to/AppleGMACEthernet.tar.gz .
  cd ..
  sudo rm Extensions.kextcache
  sudo rm Extensions.mkext

Now reboot. The last two lines clear out the cache of Extensions. I don't know if they're strictly necessary. I posted the old kext at

I take absolutely no responsibility for this fix. Your mileage may vary. Please don't blame me if you hose your system doing this. Hope this helps.

That has helped most with the Enet problem but not all (too many mails to post but see below for one that said it did not help).

(added 9/23/2003)
" Just regarding the 10.2.8 update with cable modem, I had the same problem with no connection and tried the combo update, but it still wouldn't connect, so I zapped the pram and all is well. I have the Gigbit Ethernet model.
Kevin "

That's the 2nd or 3rd Gigabit enet owner I think that has said Zapping the pram helped.

(added 9/23/2003)
" Hi Mike, Just thought I'd pass along some of what I've been hearing about these Ethernet problems. I think the reason that some seem to work and others don't is that the problem only occurs with 10base-T/half duplex connections. (full duplex should be used unless there's some auto-detect problem) I've seen some suggestions that it only happens with machines with an Intel Ethernet chipset, which means only early gigabit Ethernet designs. (I thought the early sawtooth's had an intel 10/100 NIC chip also - before the NIC function was enabled in a later Uni-N rev (10/100). The GigaBit Enet machine I had (now sold) had a heatsink on the Enet chip and I never checked the mfr ID via software.-Mike)
I downgraded just the .kext (see above tip) and I've been OK so far. If anyone is brave enough, the source is on the Darwin site...
--Michael C. "

(added 9/23/2003)
" After updating to Mac OS X 10.2.8 on my 500 Mhz powerbook, I ran into the same problem that occured when I update(d) using using Airport 3.1.1 several weeks ago It appears to be identical to the problem that so many are having right now. The network connection is lost because DHCP option is missing from the network preference pane as is BOOTP and other tabs. Nothing shows up in the Network Overview portion of the Sytem Profiler other than flag and ethernet address (previous times it may have been completely blank).

In my case:
rolling back to an older AppleGMACEthernet.kext version does not work,
nor does removing the /var/db/NetworkInterfaces.xml,
/var/db/SystemConfiguration/preferences.xml, &

What does work for me but I have absolutely no idea why (any suggestions?) was what recommended somewhere a while ago (however, I can't now find it!!) for this problem which has cropped up repeatedly and over several software updates is to remove:
and reboot.

Again I don't know what I'm doing (!), but it works and I haven't noticed any bad side effects.
I hope this helps, be careful, be sure to back-up, your mileage may vary, good luck....
Would some expert please chime in and tell us what's going on.
Cheers, Robert "

(added 9/23/2003)
" Mike, I can't say for certain that the 10.2.8 update actually caused the problem, but when I restarted after Software Update had done its thing I could not see beyond my own machine. I was unable to even ping any of the computers plugged into my hub. Restarting again didn't help.

I tried repairing permissions and was shocked at how many things seem to need repairing after each software update or installation. Unfortunately that had no effect on my networking problem.

Then I tried creating a new location and changing the IP address of my Mac and that too did nothing. I tried switching cables and choosing different ports on my hub to no avail. I fired up my PC and old SuperMac to prove that the hub and gateway were working perfectly.

In desperation I found the Hardware Test CD that came with my G4/450DP. I was glad to see that it passed with flying colours, but booting back into 10.2.8 left me still cut off from the rest of the world. I restarted using my OS 9 partition and had no trouble surfing the web. Shutting down and booting back into 10.2.8 brought the familiar problem of a seemingly perfect Mac with no Ethernet capabilities.

Finally I booted from the Disk Warrior 3 CD thinking that it couldn't possibly do any harm to re-build the directories. Disk Warrior immediately told me that there was a serious volume wrapper problem on both volumes. After fixing both partitions I booted into 10.2.8 and found that the networking problem had disappeared.

I'm beginning to think that OS X is a fairly high maintenance operating system after all. Regular running of Repair Permissions and fsck or Disk Warrior seems to be essential.
Keep up the good work, David
(he later wrote)
Hello again Mike,
I turned my G4 on this morning and the dreaded Ethernet problem was back again. I rebooted into OS 9 and went straight to your site where I found references to a combo updater and kext workaround. I downloaded both.

The combo updater did its thing, but still no Ethernet. I'm currently running with the old kext in place. When I first rebooted the system told me I had a component that presented a potential security risk. I chose Fix and Use in the dialogue box. I'm just about to repair permissions for the third time in less than 12 hours. This'll teach me to be an early adopter.
David "

It's grabbing straws at this point but since at least two Gigabit Enet owners noted it helped - try zapping the pram. (nothing to lose...)

(added 9/23/2003)
" Mike, Just wanted to chime in and let you know that I didn't have any problems going to 10.2.8 on my Dual 450MHz Gigabit Ethernet machine. It's pretty much stock except for 640MB RAM and 2 40GB drives on a SIIG RAID PCI card (based on the ACARD chip). I repaired permissions before and after, and it found a bunch of files to fix both times.
Thanks! -Eric P. "

Bluetooth Related:

(added 9/23/2003)
" Hi Mike, I have read the reports on your always-helpful site of the 10.2.8 update causing iMic (USB Audio) and Ethernet failures after the update. I cloned my 10.2.6 system as a backup and proceeded with the update anyway. This is on a 1.0GHz upgraded PowerLogix G4 Cube, GeForce2 MX, 1.5 GB RAM, 80 GB Seagate Barracuda HDD with MCE Combo Drive. I am happy to report that both my iMic (with TDK Tremor speakers attached) and my Ethernet (connected to a Cable Modem via a MacSense Wireless router) are still working flawlessly after applying the 10.2.8 COMBO update which I downloaded from Apple's site. I wonder if the Combo update is the key this time, as it has been the fix-all for so many previous 10.x.x updates?

I updated my DVI Powerbook G4/667mhz/768MB/60GB/Combo/Airport with no ill-effects either.
On both machines, I repaired permissions after installing the updates, as a matter of habit.

I can't say I notice much of a difference other than a slightly perceptible overall speedup. My applications bounce a few less times in the dock upon launch and Safari seems "smoother". Syncing my T68i over Bluetooth (with D-Link adapter) was reliable before the update and is still reliable - and I did notice that the Bluetooth menubar item was much more responsive. Then again, I could just be imagining all that :) I figure as long as an OS update doesn't break anything (for me at least), it's done it's job and any actual improvement it brings is just a bonus :)
Keep up the great work with your site!
Laurie "

(added 9/23/2003)
" Since I changed to 10.2.8, bluetooth does no more work on my imacG4/800 with Switel UDB 200 bluetooth adapter.
before bluetooth was running without problems.
Restarting several times and adding on and off the adapter does not help. The adapter is seen on the Apple system profiler.
Interestingly on the menu bar it shows the sign of a running bluetooth. But it says 'Bluetooth nicht verfugbar.'
(Means "Bluetooth not available")
Thank you for an iddea what to do.
Walter "

Anyone else see this? (thanks to Ronny for the translation)

(added 9/23/2003)
" As reported on xlr8yourmac.com, OS X 10.2.8 kills network/cable modem connections. I read the reports, and decided to install it on my external test drive. It installed fine, and everything worked after restart. So I figured, must not affect my PowerBook 867 MHz. So I did the install on my main drive. Everything was fine. Then I shut down.

I started up in the morning to discover no cable modem connection. I rebooted to my test drive, nothing there either. I rebooted into OS 9, still nothing! Now that was strange because OS X should have no effect on OS 9. I powered down everything including my Linksys Router and Cable Modem. I reset the router and cable modem and still no connection! I removed the router from the connection and was back online under OS 9. I rebooted and I am online under OS X 10.2.8, but with no router. My printers are through the router so I will need to get that back in the loop somehow.

Not sure what is causing the problem. I can access the router through Explorer fine and the settings are correct, however, it won't connect. Later today I will try to add the router again and see if the connection drops.

But people should not install this update as this problem seems to be widespread.
Peter H.
(He later wrote)

I am back online with my Linksys Router. Crossing my fingers hoping that this keeps working. I updated my Linksys Router BEFSR41 with their latest firmware version, 1.45.7, released in July (I had 1.45.6). The firmware version fixes the following:

1.Supports multi-L2TP-pass-through
2.Supports DHCP relay agent
3.Fixed fragmented packets arriving out of order.

After updating the router, I powered everything down. I powered up the router, did a reset by pushing the reset button until the red light came on. Then I powered up my cable modem and waited for a signal. After I had a signal, I reset the router again. Then I powered up my PowerBook 867 and everything works again. I launched Explorer and my internet connection was alive again. So I hope this was the solution to my lost internet connection after updating to 10.2.8.
Peter H. "

I don't see a problem here with my PB G4/800 updated to 10.2.8 (ethernet tests with SpeedStream router set to DHCP OK, as is Airport). Not sure why some are seeing this (most often Gigabit G4 towers but that may be just a coincidence.)

Here's a disaster story from a PB G4 17in owner.

(added 9/23/2003)
" After installing 10.2.8 on my original 17" powerbook, it lost connectivity to Cable modem(via airport). Application icons have now become folders. Drag and drop has ceased to work. Applications launch but don't always function correctly. A repair of the drive permissions show massive changes. Now a reboot after has my powerbook spinning on the gray screen(about 10 minutes now). I have to use my office pc to type this email....grrr.
Chris "

I run RP often and only saw a few corrections (the usual ones + one on a location db). So far ok with the PB G4/800 in 10.2.8.

(added 9/23/2003)
" After loading up 10.2.8 I ran into the same type of Internet connectivity problem. So I did a fix permissions, and did disk repair on my boot drive. That appears to have at least mostly fixed the intermittent ethernet issues. In fact, I'm using my iBook presently with 10.2.8 and the onboard Ethernet.

What seems to be the problem is that it appears to be loosing the lease for the IP address at the laptop side of things, or randomly dropping the lease. Without looking into the problem further that is my take on the issue.

On other notes, the 10.2.8 update brought Safari to v.85.5 and appears to fix the create your own iCard page for .mac subscribers. So, one doesn't have to go back to IE to make iCards in 10.2.8.
-Josh S. "

(added 9/23/2003)
" Up and running fine on Dual 1 Gig, with Acard ATA PCI card, Apple Snow Airport Base Station connected to Motorola Cable Modem, Apple Airport Card in Mac....and various other USB-Firewire PCI cards.
Nervous moments on extended boot-up, including about 45 seconds of "Blue Screen" with no other indication of any activity (saw that also on the PB G4/800 here at first reboot-Mike), but it resolved in to the desktop fine.
Al. S. "

(added 9/23/2003)
" I have a PowerMac G4 400mhz AGP and encountered the same loss of internet (web/email) connectivity. I have a cable modem and use Comcast (nothing extravagant done to my machine, just a superdrive installed, and USB bluetooth). I tried all the normal fixes (repair permissions, reset modem, ck'd connections, ck'd setup). Nothing seems to work. I'm beginning to dislike the software update program b/c it seems that there's always something wrong after I use it to update my OS. Rather than simply being automatic, I think I'd better wait a week or so before accepting future updates. Hoping for a fix from Apple soon.
David D. "

(added 9/23/2003)
" I have a 600MHz iBook, no 3rd party add-ons, cards, etc (not necessarily by choice, just pretty limited on upgrade paths for this model). So the book has pretty much the same configuration as when I bought it with the exception of upgraded RAM. I use Verizon DSL. Didn't read about ethernet problems until *after* I had installed 10.2.8, but I have had no problems. Not what people who are having problems want to hear, I know, but no bad impact on me.
L. O. "

(added 9/23/2003)
I too lost internet through my ADSL on upgrading to 10.2.8, however plugging the connection into the airport rather than directly into the ethernet port works for some reason...
So now I have to connect through the airport which isn't optimal for me, but it's better than nothing.
DP 500MHz Gigabit G4, 1GB RAM
No third party drivers that I am aware of.
Delyth P. "

(added 9/23/2003)
" Hi Mike, Upgraded this morning from 10.2.6 to 10.2.8
Ti book 1 GHZ, 512 meg of ram, 1 x MACSENSE MPC-200 PCMCIA Ethernet card, Airport, Bluetooth USB Adaptor, 1 x 17 inch Apple Display (Flat screen)

1. Cable modem working fine via Airport (in bridge mode as VPN client cannot handle NAT.. long story) --> home use
2. At work, using built in ethernet - --. one closed network, static IP, working fine pcmcia ethernet card --> corporate lan, DHCP, working fine. Apple 17 inch monitor in monitor spanning mode
3. No software issues at all --- considering I run multiple clients / browsers for various reasons, it has been fine (lots of 3rd party hacks etc installed .. no problems) (note - some haxies/system mods are not 10.2.8 compatible however. Check the vendor's website if in doubt before updating.-Mike)
4. Blue tooth seems to be a lot better - was having numerous issues with one of USB adaptors ...
All in all, seems to be fine - not that i have ever had any problems with any of the updates
Cheers, Dave S. "

All OK here on the PB G4/800 also.

Repeating this report here as well as the PCI/USB 2.0 section since it has info on both.

(added 9/23/2003)
" Mike
I have an ADS USB Turbo 2.0 PCI card (USBX-2000-EF). Under 10.2.6 I was running it using the OrangeMicro drivers. After updating to 10.2.8 my USB2.0 devices are now recognized in ASP as high speed (USB2.0) rather than full speed (USB1.1). A folder with 13.6 MB of files takes 29 seconds to write to a CF card with a USB1.1 adapter, 14 seconds with the OrangeMicro driver under 10.2.6 on a USB2.0 adapter, and 10 seconds on the same adapter with 10.2.8.

I am also on an ADSL modem and have had no problems with my internet connection after the upgrade.

Gigabit 400MHz G4, 448MB RAM, GeF2MX, Adaptec 2906 SCSI (only used for tape backup, haven't tested yet), 3com ADSL modem, Linksys Etherfast Cable/DSL router.
Michael C. "

(added 9/23/2003)
" Installed 10.2.8 on a Powermac G4 450 (Sawtooth Mobo) and a Powerbook G4 667 (DVI) without any problems. Went to install the 10.2.8 update on a Powermac G4 Dual 500 (Original Gigabit Mobo) through a SSH connection, the install went properly then notified me I needed to reboot. The machine was logged out w/ not users so I issued the "sudo Reboot" and waited for the machine to reboot to reconnect, it never came back up.
Not wanting to go to work tomorrow and figure out what went wrong I physically went to the machine to see what was wrong. Turns out it could not pull a DHCP address from the server nor could it access the network with a manual configuration.
I was forced to use Carbon Copy to restore 10.2.6 from a back up archive. Once 10.2.6 was back on the primary drive I ran the update again this time from the Software update control panel, same issue. Looks like it is 10.2.6 until a fix is found. Oddly enough my PowerBook w/ 10.2.8 worked properly on the same network.
Jonathan K. "

Here's one of the few (so far) other GigaBit G4 owner that wrote saying he's not seen a Ethernet problem with 10.2.8 (noted zapping the pram however if that matters)

(added 9/23/2003)
" Mike, Just read your front page and had to install 10.2.8 for the adventure. My machine is a 2000 DP 500 Gigabit Ethernet recently upgraded with a Giga Designs 1.4 GHz single CPU upgrade. I had no fear installing it, as the DP 500 has two drives and four partitions and I also have an iBook. I mostly run 10.3 preview (7B68) on everything. My 10.2.6 was my only "standard". :)

I have Comcast cable modem and an SMC Barricade wireless router. The DP 500 is hardwired to the router and the iBook is Airport/wireless. The cable modem is an RCA I've leased from Excite@Home/AT&T/Comcast for the last three years or better.

I just sent an email fine CC'd to me. I'm now accessing the web fine via Safari with no apparent problems. As a note, after reading your alert, I elected to shutdown after installing 10.2.8 from SU. I then zapped the PRAM (4 bongs, cmd, opt, p, r) and booted up in single user mode (cmd s, no errors). If anything crops up, I'll let you know.

I haven't had a chance to kick 10.2.8 around, but if it has any of the OpenGL, video card driver enhancements of Panther, people are going to be pleasantly surprised.
Regards, John M. "

"Hey Mike, updated my Gigabit G4 (550MHz 7410, 960MB of RAM, 3 HD's, OEM Radeon, OEM SCSI, and a Rage128) to 10.2.8 and found out something rather unfortunate. After trouble shooting, it breaks the auto cross-over somehow. If I plug it directly into my iBook it works fine. If I plug it into any hubs or routers its dead. tcpdump shows basically no activity. Hopefully they will resolve this soon.
Brandon S.
(he later wrote)
I am a system admin so I have tried most everything I can think of. Reset router, tried different ports, different cables, different hub, different router. If I plug the G4 directly into the iBook, they talk to each other just fine. I am currently working my way through network config files to see if I can root out a problem. But nothing has done it yet. I will let you know if/when I find a fix. The kernal did receive an update, so it may be the cause.
I am here on #macosx on IRC (irc.undernet.org) and nobody else is seeing these problems. But I am just about the only one with a gigabit enet model. The other few with them aren't online atm. And nothing I have tried will get it to ping anything on the network unless I use my iBook as a bridge. Then it works just fine. But plugged into any router/hub/switch its as dead as can be."

" Hi there, this is actually the first time I am encountering strange behavior after updating my Os (to 10.2.8). After applying the software update via control panel my internet DSL connection won't work anymore. This is kind of annoying because I am not really crazy about going to dive deeper into what's going wrong here. Hardly ever had any serious problems except Microsoft office crashes on launch after applying the recent updates.
Too bad, very disappointing.
Regards from Germany
(he later wrote)
2x500 DP Gigabit Ethernet, 1Gig ram, 2x 80 gig IBM HDs, Firewire Superdrive "

My OfficeX runs ok after all the updates (but some did note problems in the past with some officeX updates - sometimes trashing prefs helped, but not always). My cable modem (via Airport) connection is still working in 10.2.8. (I also later tested with my PB G4 connected via Ethernet to the Router - DHCP OK/Cable modem access via Router OK.)

" I would just like to tell you that as soon as I installed this update on my '00 G4 gigabit, my mac could no longer get on the internet via my cable modem. I am writing this on my iBook right now and hope that there is a fix for this soon as this really sucks having to use my iBook for the internet. I tried resetting my cable modem, unplugging and plugging it back in, its obvious that the 10.2.8 has caused this problem. I would highly recommend to anybody who has not updated yet to not update and wait as this could happen to them.
(he later wrote)
2000 400mhz Gigabit 60gig maxtor 7200rpm drive which has 10.2.8 installed on 32mb AGP 2x radeon mac edition video card, 960mb ram, Pioneer Superdrive
I am using a cable modem on DHCP, which no longer works when 10.2.8 was installed on my G4. But works fine on my iBook and Ti.
-Best regards, Josh H.
(I asked if he had updated the iBook/Ti to 10.2.8, checked prefs, repaired permissions, etc.)
I have checked the network prefs. on my G4 and they are still all the same and it still does not work. As far as it working on the iBook and Ti, I am afraid of updating them now as I could be left with another internet-less machine(s). How would I go about repairing permissions? (it's in the First Aid tab of Disk Utility in 10.2.x-Mike) It seems a lot of other people are having this problem too so it doesnt worry me too much. "

I connect to my cable modem (DHCP) via Airport card which still works, but I have to reselect the network name every time I wake from sleep it seems. (resetting the network prefs/airport prefs settings to see if that helps solve that quirk.) Ethernet on the PB G4/800 here is working fine (checked w/Router set to DHCP)

Another problem report regarding Ethernet from a Gigabit G4 owner:

" After installing OS 10.2.8, I lost my network (ethernet) connectivity. I couldn't connect to my office Internet server and couldn't print to network printers (Print Monitor didn't even show them). I re-installed (Archive & Install) System 10.2 from the Install Disks, and now everything is back to normal.
Gary Z.
Dual G4/500 (Gigabit Ethernet model) "

I welcome other reports on 10.2.8 (pros/cons, any issues or fixes you see, etc.) - please include system details such as any installed 3rd party drivers or cards, etc. that you have. Thanks.

Software and Utilities: (NOTE: As I suggested in the first 10.2.8 update posting, if possible I'd uninstall any 3rd party haxies/OS mods, etc. before updating to 10.2.8. Or wait and check the website of the developer to see if they have noted any 10.2.8 issues or updates to their software. (Write them if in doubt.)

Application Enhancer (APE)

(added 9/23/2003)
" G4 450 MHz, 10.2.6, 1.38 GB ram, installed on a separate internal hard drive, with an APE Manager installed. I updated to 10.2.8 via the software update and when I restarted, the computer would not progress past the gray screen with the apple. I tried zapping the PRAM, running DiskWarrior, booting with the install disk to use the apple utilities to repair permissions and see if the disk was ok, and then booting in safe mode, but nothing seemed to help.

Next, I tried to arrive and reinstall, as I had done (successfully) in the past. This time the first attempt failed. I almost had a heart attack! It tried to put in a new system, but it looks like it stopped when it encountered difficulties. It still would not boot up! After I picked myself up off the floor, I tried to archive and reinstall one more time, and this time it took over an hour, but it worked. Thank God! I then applied the 10.2.8 update again, and now, after another 3 hours of putting things back together, almost everything is back to normal. I found two previous systems, one that was created with the first attempt, and then the second, which had more info. I had to pick and choose from both previous systems when putting things back together. Fun!

The only problem so far is that I can't print to a certain network printer that I could before; it just stops printing! It is also much slower to boot up then it used to be. I probably lost two years of my life on this one!
Diana O. "

(added 9/23/2003)
" Hi Mike,
I just thought I'd pass this on in case anyone else might be having the same problem. Shortly after I updated to 10.2.8 on my Lombard PowerBook (upgraded with a 500 MHz G4 BlueChip LS from PowerLogix) I began to experience major crashes that froze the system and caused the display to become garbled. This began when my PowerBook wouldn't wake from sleep and then after restarting, it would crash within a few minutes of logging back in.

I believe the problem was with Application Enhancer (APE) from Unsanity, or if not that then the one enhancer that I had installed, the iChatUSBCam driver from Ecamm Network. I should note that I hadn't used the iChatUSBCam driver for a while and so I had one of the betas installed (Beta 2 or 3). I don't know if the latest version has the same problems or not.

Uninstalling APE seems to have fixed the problem as I haven't had a crash since (which has been a few hours now).
Hopefully this will help out anyone experiencing similar problems.
Dave T.
Software Engineer "

This is why I generally avoid installing system mods and haxies, as they often have a history of problems with OS updates (even long before OS X). I'd check the website of any software like this you have before updating for any notes/updates. (or install it before updating.)

(added 9/23/2003)
" I installed the OS X 10.2.8 Update on my Pismo 500 (512MB) running German OS X 10.2.6 ... after first cleaning out caches with Cocktail and also disabling 3rd party stuff like Default Folder X 1.8, Windowshade X 3.01 and other Unsanity Haxies.

Everything went right on 1st trial and the aforementioned 3rd party tools continue to work also. (so you reinstalled them?) Right now I'm watching a C-SPAN video feed of the UN General Assembly over Airport in the background (waiting for Bush to give his spin on Iraq) while typing this in Mail and get the impression that all is going smoother than before, i.e. significantly less glitches in RealPlayer when playing in the background, even while Pismo is running on battery power and Energy Saver set to max. power conservation: There seems to be less strain on the processor now.

There seems to be however an issue with the readout of the battery time left ... though I currently use an older battery it used to yield about 2 hours when fully charged. But right after administering the OS X 10.2.8 uodate and rebooting it was reduced to 1.5 hours and now (some 4 hours later) when I pull the power plug the battery yields only 1 hour left while fully charged. Will have to check again with my better batteries.
Overall I am still *very happy* with the performance of Jaguar on my "vintage" G3 powerbook ... ;-)
Greetings from "the olde Europe" -mike b. "

TransparentDoc 2.0.2 Problems: NOTE: Jacques Perreault wrote there's an update to TransparentDock (v2.1) to fix the serious problems reported by readers that used v2.0.2 with 10.2.8.

(Reports w/version 2.0.2 follow)

(added 9/23/2003)
" Hello Mike, After loosing my DOCK, using "transparent dock I found the only fix to be trashing the transparent dock haxie and downloading the OS 10.2.8 combo updater. After running it and reinstalling all my items to the dock it is business as usual all except for my Revolution 7.1 PCI card.
-Jerry "

(added 9/23/2003)
" Mike,
Please post to your site that if one updates to 10.2.8 and sees that the haxie "Transparent Dock" has reverted back to the original dock, when they try to run transparent dock again they WILL lose the dock completely! Even if a backup was made it will still be gone and the only way I found to get it back is to apply the 10.2.8 combo updater. There are also many other who have lost the dock at Apple Discussions.
Just a little heads up! -Jerry"

See previous reports here on Transparent dock 2.0.2 below (one of the first problems reported last night with the 10.2.8 update). Personally I'd remove any haxies/addons like this before updating the OS and wait until the vendor of the software notes it's compatible (or an update) at their website.

" Just to let you know I installed 10.2.8 and I use TransparentDock 2.0.2 and I have now LOST my dock, witch means I can't even use the yellow button in windows. Great website by the way.
Mike C.
(he later wrote)
I did find a fix to get your dock back.. You still can't use TransparentDock without it breaking again but it worked, All I did was copy the dock app from my working Pismo after the 10.2.8 update inside the system and rebooted everything is fine now. I have had no problems with my ethernet like allot of others have had everything els seems good. Just for reference I have a Gigabyte Ethernet 450Mhz, 1gig Ram, Radeon 9000, Samsung CDRW/DVD SM-332B using hacked drivers. "

Another reader using TransparentDoc 2.0.2 said he had the same problem but reinstalling 10.2.8 solved it (odd...)

" I use Transparent Dock and when I upgraded to 10.2.8 I lost the dock completely. But I got it back by re-installing 10.2.8. I guess I'll have to live with a non-transparent dock for a while. But heh, it's better than nothing.
Cheers, Peter B.
P.S. I'd originally had 10.2.8 installed via Software Update but when I wanted to do the re-install, it took me a while to find the right page. It wasn't (at the time) yet listed on the recent updates page. FYI, I found it here:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=120245 "

The 10.2.8 kbase doc (link below) has a note about possible problems with 3rd party system mods so if possible it may be best to uninstall them before applying the update (if the addon software has an uninstaller).
If any other readers have seen problems (or fixes) with 10.2.8, let me know the details. Thanks. I updated my PB G4/800 here and so far it seems ok, but I don't have any addon OS mods other than an early beta version of ASM (which still works) and modified plugins for some DVD/CDRW burners (which got overwritten as expected.)

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