Initio FW Bridge Firmware Update for 10.3.6 Problems
From a reader post on Firewire drive mounting problems after the 10.3.6 update (affected initio bridge based drives). Initio released a 4.70 firmware update for their 1430 bridge board, but see below - even after the update I cannot repair or verify an updated drive in 10.3.6 that has a thread error. (Update - I eventually reformatted the drive and used it 99% of the time with an os 9.x machine, yet the problem appeared again. it was priced right but I have -zero- confidence in that portable MacAlly fw/usb case now. )
Replying to myself feels odd, but there is a fix now:
Initio's (OEM bridge maker) site
Requires a non 10.3.6 computer to run the update. From the (initio) readme:
"Apple made a change in their Mac OS 10.3.6 FireWire driver and now requests a very big packet and when we try and send a large packet back it won't accept it so Apple keeps re-trying until Apple timeouts. Sometimes after a few minutes and Apple timing out, the hard drive will then appear on the Mac OS desktop, but not always, depending on what previous Initio firmware is on the FireWire 400 bridge you have.
So what we did is break up the larger packet into smaller packets so Apple can accept it. You won't be able to flash update on 10.3.6, so you will have to do it on an earlier Mac OS
version or on a PC because we need a mounted volume to flash update."
If you're going to do the update via a PC, you need to put in a PC formatted drive (I wonder if a burner or optical drive will suffice in a pinch), so the computer will mount the device.
The macally page says use 10.3-10.3.5 but I used the initio
updater and firmware file (I've not downloaded the macally version but I suspect it's just a mirror of initio's updater/rom.)
I updated a macally portable (PHR-250cc) FW/USB 2.0 case
bridge by booting to 10.2.8 and running the updater. Update completed successfully and I rebooted to 10.3.6 and although the drive mounts, Disk Utility fails to verify the drive - repair or verify attempts in 10.3.6 (on 2 machines) shows errors like
"the underlying task reported failure on exit (-9972)"
I then rebooted to 10.2.8 and ran verify in Disk Utility -
it completed but reported a "missing thread record (id = 32768)"
Repairing the disk said it completed but does not fix that problem
(verify again shows the same error). Drive mounts ok however.
Running the firmware updater again shows v4.70 (just to verify it was updated as the original firmware was 4.61)
So I thought I'd try using Disk First Aid in OS 9.2.2 (MDD system
booted to os 9.2.2) - about 1/4 the way through verifying the drive (text status showed checking catalog) the entire system froze.
I can't find the USB 2.0 cable that came with the case kit to try repairing it via a USB port, but since this case kit didn't come with an AC adapter, I'm leery of using USB bus power alone to power the drive. It still mounts (in X and OS 9.x) but I may try backing the files up to another drive and then reformatting it again and seeing if that helps.
I asked Tim and another reader with an initio bridge based drive that sent the same update link if they had tried using Disk Utility to verify an updated drive (i.e. did they see any errors trying to verify the drive as I did.) If any other readers update their drives and test for this, let me know. Thanks.
(I'm really behind on 10.3.6 mails in the last week, but here
some some recd in the last few days.)
More FW Drive/10.3.6 Comments: (he included a clip from earlier report here on oxford922/10.3.6 problems from apple, noting bridge firmware 1.02 problems - removed from this post to save space)
"...I recently purchased a Fantom 160GB firewire hard drive (FW400) and have the G4 Dual 1GHz running 10.3.6 currently updated. I can get the G4 to recognize the firewire drive only after booting with it off, then turning it on and waiting about 5 minutes, and it's only recognized in Disk Utility or System Profiler. I tried formatting as suggested but the erase function just hangs at about 5% or so, I even left it run all night.
I don't have anything fancy hooked up to the machine, no fancy software other than the normal user stuff. I tried hooking the drive directly to the G4 in both firewire ports, also tried using a firewire hub as well. No matter what I try it will not finish a format. I'm going to keep trying and searching for more info for a couple days, after that it's going back. Any suggestions to correct this would make my day, I'm just a home user trying to make room for some home video projects, I am far from being a proficient mac geek.
I would say that I'm NOT impressed with Fantom so far, the web site leaves a lot to be desired in the way of real answers about their drives and the issues with them. There are no software or firmware updates for this HD other than one for people using OS9.
I haven't experienced any loss of data to the main drive, nor has it really created any other problems, it does seem to slow things down a bit.
I wrote Scott back with some questions such as:
- did this problem only happen after updating to 10.3.6?
(i.e. had you used it ok with os x 10.3.5 or os 10.2.x, os 9.x, etc.)
- who made the case bridge board? (does Apple system profiler
report it as an Oxford chipset or another chipset?)
- if it's an Initio bridge - did you try the firmware update
mentioned in today's news page and above? (I'd contact Fantom if in doubt of the bridge board mfr/model but also check ASP)
- do you have access to another mac to try it with?
(to isolate out the current system as a factor)
Updated my G4 AGP (ex 400 Mhz) upgraded with Power Logix 1.4 Ghz from 10.3.4 to 10.3.6 using combined update.
All seemed well during first 24 hrs with noticeable faster booting. Today I am getting intermittent freezes and crashes. Also after playing Solitaire Forever for about 2 minutes, systems slows down to crawl, Activity monitor shows that Window Server using 80% of CPU whilst Solitaire is running.
Reverted back to 10.3.4 and all problems are gone. Thank god for CCC.
Anyone else see this problem?
"Since installing MacOS 10.3.6 on our dual 1.8 MHz G5, we cannot mount our MacAlly PHC-500BC external hard drive as a FW device.
It runs as a USB 2.0 device without problem, but the Firewire is broken, and the finder suggests we initialize the disk(!)..I think not!
The MacAlly case contains a Maxtor IDE 160GB 7200 drive mech. It ran
flawlessly before switching to 10.3.6.
- Alan S
I suggested he check to see if it's the same initio bridge as
mentioned above (firmware update for 10.3.6 problems).
Another confirmation on (non-DVD ROM booktype) burned Dual Layer disc mounting in 10.3.6:
"I also can confirm that with 10.3.6 DL burned disks are recognized and
mounted by Finder. I have tried on LG GSA-4120B, until 10.3.5. it was
"Ever since I upgraded to 10.3.6 (dual 2Ghz G5, 2.5GB RAM, stock FX5200 video card, second SATA hard drive), my system has taken a very long time to finish startup. The initial bootup--from hitting the power switch to seeing my desktop pictures appear--is unchanged, perhaps a total of 20 or 30 seconds. Once the pictures (but not the rest of the desktop, nor the menu bar) appear, I get a pinwheel, and the hard drive starts making the sounds of heavy disk activity. It then takes 60 to 75 seconds for the actual
desktop to appear.
I have repaired disk permissions, run every optimization/maintenance task in System Optimizer X, and even ran DiskWarrior 3 and TechTool Pro 4 from their respective CDs. No change.
I'm delighted that Apple has improved file sharing in Windows environments, but I'm not sure it was worth a 400% increase in startup time. :-p
Normally a few reboots helped (startup kext cache issue in the past - see FAQ's OS X section for a past tip on that, but not tried it in 10.3.6.)
"This will be mostly boring. I have dual 800 Quicksilver with 1.25GB RAM, a
120 and 160 GB internal drives, a user added superdrive (DVR-107d using
patchburn and v1.16 region free firmware).
(Note - for standard DVR-107D ID drives, you don't need patchburn anymore since 10.3.3 added native burn support for the 107D. I'd remove the profile.-Mike)
I have four external 80 GB hard
drives and a 40x CD burner attached. My acanner is an Epson 2450 (USB) my printer is a HP deskjet 970 cxi networked through a JetDirect 300x and a bunch of USB stuff.
The only problem I have is that the new ImageCapture 2.1.4 does not run. It has the generic application icon - always a bad sign. If I coppy it to another drive it still retains the generic icon. The old version 2.1.0 still works fine but the new one refuses to start up.
I installed the combined update after fixing permissions and Disk Doctoring the drive. I installed with the external drives off but connected and fixed permissions afterwards. One permission having to do with an install log was fixed but I did not write down the details.
I checked 2 systems here with 10.3.6 updates, both are ok (image capture runs and has correct icon).
"I have a DP 1.25 Mirror with 1.5 gigs of RAM. I just installed the
update and I had noticed that at the login screen there is horrible
pixilation that only went away when I changed the resolutions on the
monitor (a 23" Cinema) from 1680 to 1024 and back.
I have also noticed
that upon using DVD studio pro, when I used the simulator (playing back
on top of the menu) the screen becomes corrupted, gaining composure ONLY
when I refreshed. I believe there is something wrong with the Video
update, BTW the video is a GForce 2 MX.
Anyone else see this problem?
"Mike, I just wanted to drop a line on the 10.3.6 and my Digital Audio's deep sleep (or lack there-of) after updating the other day. I was boggled at the culprit and after some quick troubleshooting, I found that the USB Bluetooth dongle I had plugged in during the upgrade kept my Digital Audio (733 Mhz - now upgraded with an OWC 1.33 Mercury Extreme as of yesterday) from deep sleeping and even from shutting down!
I pulled the Bluetooth and reinstalled 10.3.6 and all is well again (it was the only 3rd party hardware to cause me grief - I have an ATI Radeon 9000 Pro 128 MB vid., M-Audio Audiophile2496 Delta card, a USB/Firewire PCI card from OWC, and an SIIG ATA/133 card). Plug the Bluetooth back in after the update and it's as if nothing had changed...Deep sleep works great with the upgrades as well, including a Belkin/Broadcom 801.2g wireless card I picked up from Staples for $30 net (after rebate - appears as an Airport Extreme device and even took the newest Airport Extreme updater just fine).
BTW, am I the only one to notice that the 10.3.6 "updater" is called a "patch" by Apple....?
One common tip for USB device problems after an OS X update is to unplug/reconnect the device (has helped in the past with printer problems/recognition problems, etc.).
"Hi Mike, Just wanted to pass along that I have a Pioneer DVR-108 drive installed in my Power Mac G4 1.25GHz "MDD" tower and I upgraded to 10.3.6. DVD playback is fine, the DVD I tried was a retail copy of Office Space.
My video card is a stock Radeon 9000 Pro. No problems to report
I am using Patchburn (for burn support)
(Updated to note only some DVDs didn't play)
(added 11/10/2004 - updated)
"Hi Mike, I'm running a flashed Nvidia GeForce 2 MX card (firmware rev. 1045f) in my G4/400 AGP. After updating to 10.3.6, DVD Player no longer
recognizes inserted DVDs. Mac OS X 10.3.5 and earlier showed no such
problem--DVDs played great. The system is otherwise running just fine
after the update.
It looks to me like the update modified the Nvidia drivers in such a
way as to inhibit DVD playback with this video card in the Sawtooth. As
far as I know, this system has no third-party software that could
affect this issue.
(he later wrote)
it turns out that *some* DVDs do not play and are not recognized. These
are all retail DVDs purchased locally:
- Amadeus (180 minutes)
- Black Robe (101 minutes)
- Dune (137 minutes)
Will not mount or be recognized by DVD Player, VLC, or Disk Utility:
- Saturday Night Live 25th Anniversary (162 minutes)
Amistad (155 minutes)
I can't recall previously running into a compatibility problem with the stock drive or DVD Player. FWIW, the drive is a MATSHITA DVD-ROM
SR-8585, rev. 1A30.
At this point, I have no idea if these issues were pre-existing or are
a result of the update to Mac OS X 10.3.6. Sorry to trouble you with
Thanks for the update (all reports are welcome).
Some blamed the problem on the 9800 Pro or specific drives, but I and others have used those cards and drives ok w/DVD player in 10.3.6, so not sure what the root cause of this problem is. For the record I asked Dan what model/brand of drive he's using.
"Hi, Mike. I'm using a Wiebetech firewire400/usb
enclosure that only mounts in 10.3.6 using the usb
port. When attempting to mount via the firewire
ports, the volumes do not appear on the desktop and
the system ultimately freezes, requiring a manual shut
down. I believe this enclosure uses the Initio
bridge, not the Oxford chipset.
He later wrote he's going to try the initio firmware update mentioned above.
"I have a DVR-108 and have had no problems with the update. The
firmware is 1.04, which is not the latest version, so that may be a
factor. I'm also using the latest version of Patchburn. A lot of 108
owners have been reflashing their drives with hacked firmware that
makes them region free and removes the burn speed limit, so that could
be a reason for the problems.
I'm using a DVR-108D fine in 10.3.6 but it has the 1.14 std firmware. Normally the firmware version isn't keyed on (drive ID/type and features are) and one new DVR-108 owner said he had the problem and I assume he had not updated the firmware.
"Hey Mike,DVD Player works great with the 10.3.6 update. The picture quality has improved. I used to notice motion issues, almost a delayed
ghosting effect, that no longer seem to be present. I'm running a 2002
Quicksilver DP 1GHz with a GeForce4TI and 1GB of RAM.
I didn't have any sound with the first run of the DVD Player, but a
quick change to the system volume fixed that right away.
I asked what dvd drive he had just for the record.
I'm using A MDD 1.42 DP PowerMac with a Flashed PC Radeon 9800 PRo and
A Pioneer 108 drive and everything runs perfect! The DVD play was
tested with Matrix, i have no Artifacts and no problems whatsoever.
Have a great day!
Ditto here - Monday afternoon I installed a 108D drive in my G4 and had no 10.3.6 DVD player problems with it (or the 9800 pro in another mac) - both looked great... but I wish I knew why some readers are seeing the player problem (with various drives and various graphics card - the root cause of it still to be found).
DVR-108 Owner report on burning Dual Layer disk in 10.3.6 Disk Utility (from the 11/9 news page)
The other day I asked for DL burner reports after posting the Apple DVD Studio Pro 3.0.2 update info which mentioned Dual Layer burn support with 10.3.6. (I don't have any Dual Layer DVD+R discs to try in 10.3.6 and to be honest, at $10 each best price here, I'm not going to be buying any until the price comes down.) A Pioneer DVR-108 owner (no native 10.3.6 burn support so using Patchburn 3 I assume) said he burned a DL DVD+R disc using Disk Utility in 10.3.6.
...Regarding double layer burning, I realize it is only mentioned in the
DSP (DVD Studio Pro 3.0.2) kb article but I believe double layer burning support was added to the DiscRecording framework in general (see its higher version: drutil version, than 10.3.5).
To verify that I burned to a R8 with Disk Utility without problem (7.56GB image), iTunes and iPhoto also seem to
recognize the blank media properly as well as the drutil command line tool ('drutil info' on a DVD+R DL capable drive).
If any DVR-108 (or other DL burner equipped 10.3.6 user) tries DL burning in other iApps, let me know. I'm guessing iDVD still doesn't support it (didn't even support single layer DVD+R media in the past, as of v4.0x at least).
And for owners of other DL drives that don't set the booktype of burned DL discs to "0000h" (DVD-ROM), 10.3.6 has added media/read support for those discs also a reader said.
Final Cut Pro 4.5HD Feedback:
I've just updated to 10.3.6 (from 10.3.5) after pulling my hair out
resulting very regular "unexpected quits" from FCP 4.5 HD running on a PB17" 1GHz (1GB ram). I've updated this afternoon and have been using FCP now for several hours and havent had it quit on me since the update. (previously on
10.3.5 it was quitting very regularly at about 10-20 minute intervals,
and the hair pulling experience was having to wait each time to reload
my project which takes about 2 full minutes!) I'm also carrying out the
same work in FCP as with before the update.
I also updated it on my powerbook 12" (1.33Ghz 768Mb), and noticed that
the delay from opening the powerbook was reduced to bring up the
password dialog box, from upto 20 seconds with the spinning cursor, to
now less than 5 seconds.
Its strange how my 17" doesnt suffer this issue, it is nearly immediate
to bring up the password box after waking from sleep.
Regardless, these two issues were said to be resolved in Apple's
documentation for 10.3.6 and have been. I'm happy. I havent
investigated what else has been fixed yet, but i'd trust it. :-)
regards, Andrew P.
"I have a dual 2.0 g5 with oem ATI 9800. No problems what so ever playing DVDs. (so far 2 owners of Pioneer DVR-108 drives reported
DVD player problems, but I've seen no problems with a non-apple rom DR-107D drive in my G5, nor with a PB G4 and oem superdrive-Mike) I have tried on my 900mhz ibook plays their two. Here is a copy of a post that i made on another web site. I have seen
G5-dual 2.0, 2.5 gig of ram, 2 160 gi hd, ATI 9800 (oem), Canon lide 80 scanner, Canon i960 inkjet printer, Xerox 3450b Laser printer, Keyspan USB 2.0 hub, Altec Lansing 2.1 speaker system, HP 2335 Monitor; two Wiebetech micro gb+ firewire 400 external drives daisy chained to the front firewire port on my G5.
Both printers and scanner hooked to Keyspan hub.
No problems printing, scanning, or moving files back and forth to all 4 drives on the system.
I have used the firewire drives to make images this morning for my school machines. Image was over 10 gig to start with ended up being 6.7 compressed.
I repaired permissions before and after the update.
I updated using software update.
One real positive for me with this update. My g5 now shows up in the finder window every single time i look for it. I do this by selecting the network icon on the sidebar. This has been very problemmatic in the past.
So far I everything works as expected.
I would be happy to test or try anthing anybody would like me to.
DVD Player Artifacts w/9800 Pro: (*Update* I do not see this problem with a retail 9800 pro mac edition w/sept. 2004 firmware update and 10.3.6 DVD player in a MDD G4. Neither did some other 9800 owners) This was an old problem with earlier 10.3.x updates (ati fixed it once with a patch
a few updates back but it was not for use w/later 10.3 versions). A tip noted here back when it first appeared was to copy the DVD player app from 10.2.8 but not sure that helps with 10.3.6. Not a common problem based on my tests and some other 9800 owners however.
"Mike, I just upgraded to 10.3.6 and I'm getting the infamous DVD Player
artifacts with my retail 9800 Pro running on a dual 2.0 G5. It went
away from some upgrade awhile back, but it is most definitely back. It
is different this time. It appears to be a deinterlacing problem
instead of just the random noise and interference of the last time.
I upgraded the display software to 4.4.1, but it is still there. It
does not appear in VLC, which uses a different decoding method, so it
definitely isn't the DVD drive.
This is not a universal problem w/9800 Pro owners - if anyone finds the culprit for those that do see it, let me know.
Some Pioneer DVR-108 Drive owners reporting DVD Player won't Run:
*Update* (from the main site news page posts on 11/8)
More 10.3.6/DVD Player tests (w/9800 Pro and DVR-108 OK on several systems) Just a note in the continuing saga to determine why -some- 10.3.6 users had problems running the DVD Player. As I posted earlier, despite claims the 9800 Pro was to blame, I proved that was not true
(the DVD player worked perfectly (and with no
image quality problems or artifacts seen in 'the matrix' dvd) on a MDD w/retail 9800 pro with NEC ND-2500A drive as I mentioned earlier today. And based on tests I've run now and reports from other readers - the DVD player not running problem some have seen (usually with a DVR-108 drive and/or a 9800 Pro) is not a universal problem with either device. There has to be some other factor as most every combination now has been tested OK.
Since 10.3.6/DVD Studio Pro 3.0.2 updates added Dual Layer burn support (in DVD SP 3.0.2 at least) I swapped an OEM DVR-108D (w/firmware 1.14/region code already set ) from a homebrew PC here into a 2003 DP 2GHz G5 w/6800 card installed (which has DVD SP 3.0.2) and rebooted (twice) - then checked Apple System Profiler in 10.3.6. The drive was shown as "Not
Supported" (for burn support). Inserting the Matrix DVD however prompted that the disc had been played before and did I want to
resume playback or start over. It played fine.
Since some thought the Patchburn 3 profile may not be compatible with 10.3.6, I then downloaded patchburn 3.0b6 and ran it (as admin user, rebooting and then repairing permissions just in case, although that was not necessary) - ASP reported the DVR-108D as "vendor supported" (as expected). I then inserted the Matrix DVD disc again and was prompted with the resume or play at beginning dialog box in the dvd player. I chose resume and the disc played as before (last played at the menu/looping scene). So a) patchburn3 profiles are not the problem and b) the DVR-108D drive does work with the 10.3.6 DVD Player. (There has to be some other factor in the mix for those with problems.)
I've not personally tried swapping a oem or retail 9800 pro in the G5 yet to see if that -combination- changes things but since the earlier posts some other readers w/DVR-108D drives and a 9800 Pro have reported the combo works fine - so there has to be some other factor in the problem.
I have no issues with DVD's playing on my Dual G5 1.8 rev2, retail
ATI 9800,and pioneer DVR108 (with patchburn3 and hacked drivers). Neither do I get any artifacts.
DVD used was Passion of the Christ
Another G5 owner w/108D drive and a flashed 9800XT card also reported no problems with the DVD Player in 10.3.6. And a Quicksilver G4 800 w/DVR-108D drive and retail 9800 Pro also said he's had no problems with the 10.3.6 DVD Player. So like many OS X update problems - this is not a universal problem.
If anyone with dvd player problems (won't start/unsupported system config) can triple check for any non-std/3rd party installed software/addons, etc. let me know if that's a factor. Given all the tests today (from myself and others) - the problem isn't universal or due to the DVR-108D or 9800 Pro alone or in combination in all system configurations at least.
(earlier reports on the problem follow)
"Hi Mike, ... I now purchased a Pioneer DVR-108 OEM (no iApps burn support to date but patchburn3 used for that), and installed it. I'm running 10.3.6 on this machine. Profiler saw the drive but burn was not supported, as you said. I ran Patchburn 3, and it now is.
However, another problem. I put a DVD movie (Van Helsing) in and got
There was an initialization error
The current machine or system configuration is not supported (-070013)
Uh oh! The firmware was 1.10, so I installed 1.14 patched. It seemed to go well (it said that it succeeded), but in Profiler it still says 1.10. (if it actually flashed after reboot ASP should note the update. Assume he used flashit 2.0 which added 108 drive support - see FAQ's DVD section for download link/more info.-Mike) Needless to say, it still does not work in DVD Player.
I tried 3.2, which I've had success with before, but got this error
DVD Player encountered a serious error
The second line was the same as the other.
I didn't change the frameworks though. I didn't have to last time.
Any chance this is an ATI/10.3.6 problem? I haven't updated the driver
to 4.4.1 (soon 4.4.2) (that's just the ATI displays control panel and
should not have any effect on the dvd player-Mike)
I don't know if this is a drive feedback problem, or a 10.3.6 one. If I
have time, I can try it in a 10.3.5 machine.
(he later wrote)
I tried the Pioneer 108 on another machine with 10.3.5 with no problems in that area.
I put it back in the first machine and fixed permissions again, but no
luck. (that and applying the combo updater didn't help another 108 owner with this same problem in 10.3.6 either-Mike)
VLC .8 works fine though. I removed the prefs, which are in the home
I watch movies on a Power Computing (ha, ha, remember them?) branded
Sony 24" at 1920x1200, for full screen 1920x1080. It works very well.
No problems at all.
Best regards, Mel.
Here's the first report (recd friday night) on the DVR-108/10.3.6 DVD player problem
"DVD Player in 10.3.6 seems broken on my setup (733 DA) with 2 screens
connected to a 9800 PRO and using a Pioneer DVR-108D. When I launch DVD
Player I get two error messages:
1. DVD Player encountered a system error. The viewer could not be
moved to the selected screen.
I click OK and get a second message:
2. The current machine or system configuration is not supported.
There was an initialization error (-70013).
Everything was working fine before the update!
The DVR-108 is using the recent 1.14 firmware but the drive is still seen as not supported in the System profiler. I have a suspicion that Apple may have blocked the DVR-108D by using its own firmware ID (Pioneer 117D) (FYI - some recent G5 owners reported their systems shipped with a DVR-117D firmware ID, although the drive label shows a "DVR-108AA". If any other unsupported burner owner sees this same problem (even when using Patchburn3 for iApps burn support or has a tip/fix for 108 owners, let me know.-Mike).
I have tried removing one screen from the Radeon but that does not fix
Beware of this update if you use the Pioneer 108D.
FWIW - VLC still plays DVDs fine.
I asked if he had tried applying the combo updater, repairing permissions, clearing caches, etc. and he later wrote nothing helped so far.
Here's a similar report from a DVD-108DX (odd suffix) owner:
"Mike, I posted this on apple discussions
Hello All, Before installing 10.3.6 all was very well with every aspect of my system. However I went to open DVD Player today and DVD player reported this:
There was an initialisation error
DVD Player then quit after clicking 'OK'
The current machine or system configuration is not supported. [-70013]
I run an 867MHz Quicksilver with the following upgrades:
Radeon 9800pro (retail)
Pioneer (piodata) 108DX
I swapped the original Pioneer 103 that shipped with the QS last week and installed the 108 and ran Patchburn3. Everything was working absolutely fine after this upgrade so I'm suspecting 10.3.6 as this is the only change I've made to my system as of Friday.
iTunes runs fine so I'm guessing that it's not the 108DX. However I have read on the internet about someone having the same DVD Player error and it was tracked down to their GPU. I know the 10.3.6 upgrade has updated ATI drivers on it so i'm guessing...
No...I'm thrashing about in the dark.....any pointers anyone?
Not many replies to the post.
I only purchased the 108DX last week (I posted a review on your site) and all was working fine up until install of 10.3.6.
System Profiler still says:
Model: PIODATA DVD-RW DVR-108DX
Revision: 1.10 (firmware version)
Drive Type: CD-RW/DVD-RW
Disc Burning: Vendor Supported
Removable Media: Yes
Detachable Drive: No
Unit Number: 0 (master)
Socket Type: Internal
iTunes still burns CDs so i suspect Patchburn 3 is not to blame here.
I think i would like to revert to either:
a) original DVD Player
b) 10.3.5's Radeon 9800 Driver
I'm unsure how to go about this. I know I need to use Pacifist but I don't know what components to look for or where they reside on the install disc and/or combo update 10.3.5.
Not sure if that would help (installing the dvd player from 10.3.5 sinc the app date is not changed, so a component must have been. I don't think it's 9800 ext/kext file related)
" 10.3.6 is working fine here.
iDVD finally recognizes my Pioneer 108 for burning DVDs.
I asked if he previously was using Patchburn 3 (it added iApps burn support for the DVR-108 in the past and most every 108 owner
running 10.3.x was using it.)
If he never installed a patchburn profile
I asked if 10.3.6 (Apple System Profiler) reports the drive as natively burn supported now.
I also asked he try to run the DVD player - as two DVR-108 owners
(above) reported after the 10.3.6 update the DVD player will
not run at all. (reports unsupported system/config)
"The 10.3.6 update does not fix a problem with G4 iBook displays that
started with 10.3.4. Using screen saver typically causes the display to
lose its calibration (becoming washed out) when exiting screen saver.
Although the calibration is selected in the displays panel it must be
clicked on again to return the display to its calibrated setting. G4
iBook's have ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 video.
Looking for feedback on Dual Layer Burn Support in DVD SP 3.0.2/10.3.6
"Hey Mike, I read that 10.3.6, along with DVDSP update enables dual-layer burner support. (the info from the DVD Studio Pro 3.0.2 update SU window mentioned "additional compatibility for double-layer media devices on supported systems", and the linked Apple kbase doc on DVD SP 3.0.2 changes does mention burn support for that version when used with 10.3.6 or later and the latest firmware for DL drives but does not mention any specific models.-Mike) I would be interested to hear if any readers suddenly find their Pioneer 108 drives supported natively. If so, I'm gonna order one pronto!
Not sure if any of the 108 owners (reports above) owned DVD Studio Pro 3.0.2. If any Dual Layer burner owner with DVD Studio Pro 3.0.2 update (or otherwise) tests for this let me know. (Note drive model in reports. thanks)
Note: If you were using Patchburn 3 for iApps drive support in 10.3.5, to test if the drive is natively supported in 10.3.6, remove the patchburn 3 installed profile
(in /Library/DiscRecording/DeviceProfiles/ folder)
which could prevent an ASP report of native support, but for DVR-108 owners that did not help.)
"Ok, I just installed 10.3.6, and it's fixed the one bug I was hoping to
have fixed. When restarting my B&W or shutting down, it would just
stall at the point where it should be doing something a little more
useful. That's all solved now, and I'm happy with my machine again.
Glad it's fixed but not sure why that was happening (any 3rd party hardware installed or connected?) or if it was a common problem with B&W G3 owners. (Don't remember any reports on that problem on the 10.3.5 feedback page.)
Apple Note on Oxford922/FW800 Drive Problems:
Apple has identified an issue with external FireWire hard drives using the Oxford 922 bridge chip-set with firmware version 1.02 that can result in the loss of data stored on the disk drive. Even with the improvements available in this update, Apple recommends you update the firmware on your FireWire drive. Please contact your drive manufacturer for more information."
(deja vu- very early 10.3 versions had a similar FW800 drive problem that was fixed by firmware update (and some FW400 drive problems, but not very common)-Mike)
I use the OWC Mercury Oxford 400 FW Drive, and I have NO problems whatsoever with this update. However, I probably have the Oxford 911 chipset, so those with the 922 should take caution.
Other people are having problems with the MacAlly and Fantom FW drives, where the drives fail to appear when using OS 10.3.6
If you have any of these FW devices, proceed with caution.
Lacie FW800 Drive Mount Problem (and other issues):
"Hey Mike, I have to say that after updating to 10.3.6 using Software Update I've had nothing but problems on my dual 2.5 G5 w/ Nvidia 6800 Ultra graphics card. (Not noticed any problems here with DP 2GHz G5 and 6800 card, updated via SU, despite the fact I know using the Combo Updater if probably better method, and has fixed some OS X update issues in the past for some. However I do not own some of the hardware/software that this reader mentions below.-Mike)
Here's a list I've noticed so far after about 10 min of use:
(1) My Lacie Big Disk Extreme 500GB connected via FW800 failed to mount
on the desktop or show up in Disk Utility upon initial reboot from
update. Even logging out and back in didn't solve the problem. The
weird thing though was that I was able to play all of my music from
itunes even though the entire music library is stored on the the Lacie
HD. Powering the HD on and off also didn't fix the problem. It finally
mounted after I rebooted.
(2) When copying and pasting links from Dreamweaver MX into Safari's
URL field and pressing return, Safari freezes. The G5 revs up and the
beach-ball appears until I force Safari to quit. Since I'm an amateur
website designer I often do this to check links, but I've never had any
issues until now.
(3) Significant increase in noise from internal Hard drives. I'm not
sure how updating the OS could affect this, but it's the noise did
increased drastically. (I've not noticed this-Mike)
(4) fans rev up a lot more often for non-intensive CPU tasks.
when I get a chance to use my G5 some more (I'm on my ibook right now)
I'll send you an update if I continue to notice anything other issues.
Might check with lacie to see if there's any firmware updates
or issues they are aware of with 10.3.6 and their drives. (no problems mounting my portable FW 400 drive here.)
More FW Drive Mount Problem Reports:
" Just installed the 10.3.6 combo. My external Firewire/USB2 drive (case
from IOI) doesn't mount (Apple System Profiler shows a firewire device but no more info).
(I asked what bridge board the case used (oxford? initio?)
- If possible I'd contact the manufacturer (of the bridge board) to see if they know of this issue and if there are any firmware updates perhaps.)
It's a fw 400/USB 2 (I think initio chipset).
Ibook 700 16mbvram
The enclosure is the one at
(this ioiusb.com page).
Notes/Tip for FW Drive Problem:
"G4 DA with PL Dual 1.4 , 1,5 GB RAM, Radeon 8500
All works smooth as usual, exept firewire, which is broken again for
my oxford and audio-device on port 0.
So i reinstalled okd fw-kit from fw 19 sdk and exchanged IOFirewirefamily.kext 1.7.0
with version 1.7.2 ( as i did since OSX 10.3.2 )
But: since x-bench shows a slower result for grafics, they are much improved !!!
With PixelShox Studio ( openGL app ) i get more than doubled results !!
Will check some games later, to confirm grafics-boost.
(I asked for more info on his oxford FW bridge model/firmware version. my portable oxford 911 bridge based FW400 drive works
fine in 10.3.6 (so far - knock on wood..))
Here is some info from my system-profile, it an oxford 911 with updated
firmware, but had same problem since 10.3.2. Forgot Firmware version
Geschwindigkeit: 400 MBit/Sek
OXFORD IDE Device:
KapazitŠt: 38.17 GB
Hersteller: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd.
Modell: OXFORD IDE Device
Absteckbares Laufwerk: Ja
Geschwindigkeit: 400 MBit/Sek
OS 9 Treiber: Ja
Softwareversion des GerŠts: 10483
Spec-ID des GerŠts: 24734
FireWire Device: ( This is a Motu 828 Audiointerface)
Spec-ID des GerŠts: 498
Geschwindigkeit: 400 MBit/Sek
Softwareversion des GerŠts: 1
Hope this makes it clearer.
BTW: Grafics accelleration is around 20% not doubled.
I made a mistake in the FSAA-settings ( haha )
"I experienced distorted sound when playing videos (wmp, mpg and mov) in
both MPlayer and VLC. QT and iTunes playback works fine. I did not have
problems with VLC 0.8 prior to the update but I trashed preferences
anyway. It did not help. I think this update is the problem.
(he later wrote)
I found a file called sound.aif on the root level of my startup HD with
the same date as the update and the file contained 6 seconds of noise.
Erasing the file solved the problem. I have no idea where the file came
MDD DP 1.25 GHz G4 Tower
10.3.6 and all updates
no third party audio hardware
After updating, audio volume was increased, and quality was decreased.
I looked on the Apple Discussions and someone with the same problem
said that they fixed this problem by zapping their PRAM.
Zapping the PRAM does fix the audio volume/quality problem for me.
You run a fantastic website! Please let other know about this fix.
Kenneth "TigerKR" R.
"Hi Mike, A note that after the 10.3.6 update, I get a consistent drop of 3 FPS (63 versus 66 on 10.3.5) on Quake3 (Altivec version) timedemo four, on a B&W G3 (XLR8 600Mhz G4 upgrade) with Radeon Mac Edition in the 66Mhz PCI slot, latest ATI ROM (October 2004).
Not sure that's really significant (some variation in run/run with any game benchmark but he noted it was consistently lower) but
if anyone else sees changes in game performance let me know.
"Hi Mike, A comment on Apple's updating system, made apparent with 10.3.6 updater. I have a version of Postfix mail installed in my system that I compiled in with MySQL support for users. The version of Postfix I am using is 2.1.5. Now, Apple's updater contains Postfix version 2.1.5, but without MySQL support. Rather than leave an existing (and equal) version intact, it goes and overwrites your current installation regardless, which torched my authentication process. I had to recompile and reinstall Postfix again after 10.3.6 update.
Problems with Safari Developer Preview version:
"If you're using the Safari 1.3 developer preview and then upgrade to
10.3.6, the next time you run Safari it'll no longer loads any website.
The only thing I could do was to download Safari 1.2 from Apple's site.
Problem with this is I can't update Safari to the very latest version.
(he later wrote)
I downgraded to Safari 1.2 by
downloading it from Apple's site but I was trying to find a way to
update it to the latest version contained in Update 10.3.6. I
downloaded the 10.3.6 Combo updater and it updated my system including
Another report on Safari DP version problems:
"well, i have not seen any negative feedback about 10.3.6 yet, but i am
gonna start mine. the installation (from Software Update) made computer
crashed when it was "optimizing" and i had to hard restart it. when it
restarted, i ran
fsck -y and update_prebinding - root /
and as well as repairPermissions / to make sure i can "manually" finish the optimization. i even downloaded Combo 10.3.6 updater and ran it. but
iChat, Mail, Safari 1.3 DP stopped working. and it took me awhile to
figure out why iChat and Mail does not opened. according to system.log,
both of these apps were looking for
and i HAD this file but the size was zero k.
i had to
ask one of my friends to send me this file from his 10.3.5 setup.
(which is 1.3 mb) then i re-ran combo updater (10.3.6) and both apps
started to open fine. as far as Safari 1.3 DP goes, it is just not
compatible with 10.3.6. i downgraded to 1.2.3 and that is working okay.
i never had any single problem with Apple OS X updates. and this was
the first time i had such problems..
"10.3.6 installed with no problems. To be safe I fsck'd the system disk,
repaired permissions, ran the daily, weekly, and monthly cron jobs and
deleted cache files before I installed the update. I did the same after
the update. My system boots a little faster and a couple of problems
have been fixed.
The first ex-problem is with the Input Menu - for a couple of weeks I
have been unable to access the Character Palette, either from the menu
or the International prefpane. Deleting prefs, repairing permissions,
deleting caches, etc did not help. Now the Character Palette is back.
The other now corrected issue was with VideoLan Client 0.8.0. Others
have noted this app takes a long time to launch. I did not have this
problem but it did take 10-15 seconds for the controller window to
disappear when I quit the app. Deleting prefs, repairing permissions,
deleting caches, etc did not help. Now everything is fine.
G4 500 Sawtooth, 512 MB, Radeon 8500, Radeon PCI, OrangeMicro USB 2.0
card, SIIG ATA 133 RAID card with 2 Maxtor 80 GB drives, striped,
running as boot disk.
"Installed on a Dual1.42 PowerMac and a 1.25 Al 15" Powerbook. No
problems everything went smoothly. No noticeable changes in my daily
uses either though.
iSight Problem: (asked for more info/clarification on this - ichat/isight works ok here in 10.3.6)
"iSight problems since 10.3.6
If I try to use my iSight with iChat or Skype as soon and one of those
programs try's to access it, it disappears from system preferences.
I have to unplug to get it back again.
Firewire issue with 10.3.6?
Will have chance to test more later.
Using PowerMac G4 1.25GHz (FW800)
(he later wrote)
Sorry, sorted it out.
Defective iSight camera, received as a warranty replacement from Apple
the day before I got 10.3.6
I asked what he meant by "disappears from system prefs".
(I never noticed any isight system prefs pane here but rarely used it. However iSight works fine in iChat here in 10.3.6, but
I never used skype.)
"I am a Graphic Designer and I like to listen to iTunes while working in
Photoshop and Illustrator. My computer used to feel really sluggish
when switching from one app to another while iTunes ran in the
background, sometimes seemingly taking seconds if not minutes as each
app tried to redraw its pallets on screen.
Since the update, that all seems to have gone away; the apps themselves have not sped up, but switching from one to another is almost instant. Weeeee!
(Just for the record I asked what mac model he was using (old, new, fast cpu, lots of ram or little, etc. since that also affects performance).)
B&W G3 450 mhz 768 megs of ram
Running Panther 10.3.6
HomeWorld2 / Nvidia FX5200 Performance Fixed: (as promised
by nvidia's comments to me awhile back in the news page, but good
to get verification)
"... just a note to say that 10.3.6 fixed the Homeworld 2 framerate
issue for my 20" iMac. It was unplayable at any setting (about 1-2 fps
even @800x600 with all options off). Now it's nice and fluid at full
resolution (1680x1050) as long as you turn off Shadows under video
options (you can leave everything else ON or High). It seems to work
better with VSync disabled.
Another reader verified it:
re: Homeworld 2
Powerbook 12" 1.33 GHz, HW2. Awfully slow and unresponsive before,
improved very much when into the tutorial and single-player mode.
Answer is yes.
Slow Booting (Updated w/Font Cache Tip):
"Hi Mike,... Reading one readers report of
a slow startup in 10.3.6 with Font Book installed is very comforting in
a way. That's because I am having the SAME exact problem. It takes at
least 4 minutes for my machine to startup and it hangs with the
spinning beachball when using Font Book with 10.3.6.
...Font Book is not a third part product. (I had never noticed it-Mike) It's Apple's own font management software that is installed with every 10.3 (Panther) install. It's right there in the Applications folder...
My guess is that there is some problem with font caching, but haven't
had the time to fully investigate it. But now that my hunches are
somewhat confirmed, I'll be doing some more research in the next few
days to see what can be done to fix this 4 minute delay.
(he later wrote)
Following up on my previous e-mail, my suspicions regarding font caches
and OS X 10.3.6 and Font Book appear to be correct. Using the tool
"Font Finagler" to reset font caches:
I was able to clean out the font caches very easilly. And upon reset
the startup time is noticeably faster. I'm quite pleased with the
I doubt the difference in startup time would be noticeable on any basic
install with only a handful fo standard fonts in place. As a designer,
I have thousands of fonts installed. And I guess that others who have
experienced this delay on start-up have tons of fonts as well. I would
definitely recommend that anyone who is experiencing startup delays
with OS X 10.3.6 clean out their font caches to see if that solves the
problem for them.
I didn't notice any real difference in booting 10.3.6 here (after a few restarts) but the reports on slow booting reminded me of a similar problem after the 10.3.2 update. (A tip on the bootcache was posted in the news page back then and is still listed in our FAQ's OS X section. - a 10.3.6 user later wrote that old tip helped speed up booting on 2 systems.)
An earlier report on slow booting follows:
Dual 1.25 MDD G4 2 gig RAM
This update has caused a big problem! It takes my system 4 minutes to
boot with a gray screen and a spinning pinwheel. Before this, system
would boot in a matter of 20 seconds or so. I suspected it was a font
problem and testing confirms this. It takes Font Book the same 4
minutes to open with a spinning pinwheel. It also takes it almost two
minutes to activate or deactivate 449 fonts in the Mac Classic OS
collection. There is no change in startup time regardless of how many
fonts are active or inactive.
To verify this, I removed all the fonts from my OS 9 system folder and
the computer started up in a few seconds as opposed to 4-5 minutes.
Also, Font Book opened immediately. After reinstalling the fonts, I
have the same very long startup problem.
Permissions are all repaired and everything else checks out to the best
of my knowledge.
"Hi, I've got a 15" PB 1GHz with two 512MB sticks of RAM. Seems the only
issue so far is the boot time has increased by almost 7 seconds. This
isn't a lot, but its noticeable.
I suggested he reboot a few times - it may be kext caching related. (not uncommon in the past - faq's os x section had an old tip/fix for that.) he later reported reparing permissions helped but didn't note
if it showed an corrections other than the usual ones.
Shapeshifter 1.2 KP: (check their site for an update)
"I recommend disabling Shapeshifter (v1.2) before your first boot into 10.3.6,
you will get a kernel panic.
Safari (non-DP) Feedback: (not seen any problems so far here
on 2 macs w/10.3.6 and safari non-Developer version)
"I wasn't having any issues with the Safari loading problem, until I upgraded to 10.3.6. Now it takes at least 3 tries to load some pages
"I haven't tested it thoroughly yet on my dual G5 1.8 Mhz (GF FX5200U,
2.5 GB) but Unreal 2004 is now running without the usual graphics crash
and so is Lightwave 7.5d and Modo. Safari is broken however. When I
start Safari it brings up no window and the menu is dead even the blue
apple menu item. I have to force quit every time. I guess I'll need a
patch for the patch.
Anyone else experienced the dead Safari?
UT2004 Demo Problems: (anyone else see again game problems like this let me know. Not tried ut2004 full or demo yet in 10.3.6)
"Hi, I just installed 10.3.6 on my PowerMac MDD 1.25 MHz with an ATI 9000 and I can't play the Unreal Tournament Demo anymore. All the polygons are out of place, it's really strange.
P.S. System details:
512MB ram, boot rom version 4.4.8f2
(ASP info in french)
VRAM (totale): 64 Mo
Fabricant: ATI (0x1002)
ID du periphŽrique: 0x4966
Revision ID: 0x0001
Revision ROM: 113-99702-131
Type de moniteur: CRT
VRAM (utilisŽe): 64 Mo
Resolution: 1024 x 768 @ 85 Hz
Profondeur: Couleurs 16 bits
Moniteur principal: Oui
Etat: Aucun moniteur connecte
Firewire Problem w/Speedtools Device Tuner FW Extension (updated w/Intech comments)
Device Tuner 2.0.1 Update (to fix iPod problems):
As of Nov. 20th, there's an update to Speedtools' device tuner
to fix the problem reported below. A reader verified it does fix the
iPod firewire mounting issue in 10.3.6 with the previous version.
The reader that sent the note on the update/fix hadn't seen the past posts here on the problem and wasn't aware the Device Tuner was the cause of it, but said the update solves it:
".... I finally tried the SpeedTools Utility. Once inside of SpeedTools, there was a notice about updating the SpeedTools Utilities. The update check found an update for the Device Tuner component (2.0.1), which tunes Firewire data transfer.
After install and restart, my iPod now mounts, reads, and writes as it
(earlier info follows on the issue)
Here's Intech's reply on the iPod Firewire mounting problem if Speedtools' device tuner (current version as of 11/8/2004) is installed.
(added 11/9/2004, from 11/8 mail)
Regarding today's news about the new 10.3.6 OS release and our Device
Tuner, (see report below) we have discovered this issue as well. For the record, this is
an iPod compatibility issue, exclusively. In MacOS X 10.3.6, Apple
introduced several new iPod drivers (FYI: this iPod driver change is
undocumented in the release notes). The new iPod drivers load in a
completely different place then before. They are now much lower in the
driver stack and now are next to Apple's other FireWire disk drivers.
In theory, this shouldn't have been a problem. The issue is that the
new iPod drivers don't provide the same capability level as all of
Apple's other FireWire disk drivers and will not load on top of our
driver. As a result, Intech will produce a new version of our Device
Tuner driver which specifically does not match for iPod devices.
Furthermore, Intech provide it free of charge to both OEM and Retail
SpeedTools owners alike sometime during the day tomorrow. SpeedTools
owners who don't need Device Tuner can easily disable the Device Tuner
component (and its associated drivers) using the SpeedTools Installer
program, which allows for individual component removal.
Thanks for suggesting to your readers to keep an eye on our website.
The good news is that the SpeedTools Utilities Manager will
automatically inform users of the new update as soon as it becomes
available without them even needing to visit our site.
Christopher P. Karr
Intech Software Corporation
The original report on the problem follows:
" It seems that 10.3.6 killed my 4G iPod's firewire capabilities on my
PowerBook. It doesn't want to mount when connected with firewire, but
it will mount with USB2.0. This is all after I did repair permissions
before the update and then did the update through software update.
then tried a combo update to see if it would help. It didn't. Also, I
reset the PMU and NVRAM on the PowerBook, reset the iPod countless
times, and have tried the firewire on an Adaptec Fireconnect CardBus
adapter to no avail. I hope this problem gets a bug fix soon from
Apple, or 10.3.6 is pulled and reissued.
P.S. It does work on my iBook G3 800Mhz that was just updated to
(he later wrote)
It seems that after some exploring into software I had installed, I
realized that I had installed all of Intech Speedtools and as a result
it had some kernel extensions pertaining to firewire installed. After
uninstalling the parts that had those installed, the iPod mounts and is
usable. Sorry about the misinformation about it being 10.3.6 directly,
rather than a broken utility.
(I asked Joe what version of speedtools he was using (and of the utility/extension-mike)
It's the latest version of speedtools 2, and I uninstalled the firewire device tuner portion. The PowerBook is a 15", 1.5Ghz Al model.
Watch for an update at the speedtools site for an update if this affects the latest version.
"hi michael, it looks like everything worked fine until i find out my calculator is not working anymore? any suggestions? the application launches, but i can't seem to find the actual calculator.
g4, 1.25ghz, single cpu, mdd powermac.
however, i updated the g4, 867mhz, ti powerbook and it is fine there.
both updated were done by downloaded file from apple website.
calc works fine here in 10.3.6 - maybe trash a prefs file or copy the
app from another mac. (it was listed as updated in the 10.3.6 SU info)
"Powerbook 1.5GHz, 1GB RAM, 128MB ATI Graphics.
World of Warcraft performance seems to be improved, as looking around
in large environments is much smoother. But Diablo 2 performance has
been impacted. I'm experiencing a lot of lag when graphics get going,
lot's of action, etc. I've experienced this lag consistently over the
past 2 days since installing 10.3.6 (in Diablo only). In the heat of
battle, this game would be unplayable, as the lag would be enough to
get you killed.
I haven't tried any others, as between these two addictive games there
Java Problems: (none seen here so far)
"After installing the 10.3.6 combo updater on a 10.3.5 G4 PowerBook, my
Java 1.4.2 no longer worked (simply 'java -version' would segmentation
fault). I reinstalled java (using the 1.4.2 base package and the 1.4.2
Update 2 package), and java functionality was restored.
After further searching around on the net, some people who encountered
identical problems seem to have been able to fix them by just running
the Java 1.4.2 Update 2 package by itself.
iMac G5 Fan Fix when booted in TD mode:
"First of all, thanks for your site, its a great one.
10.3.6 fixed a fan problem I found when booting an iMac G5 off a PB12"
G4 1Ghz in Target Disk mode. When booting 10.3.5 off the PB12" in TD
mode, the iMac fans went into `full mode' during boot and stayed that
way. The Energy saver also showed very options. After installing
10.3.6 on the PB12", the G5 is running whisper quiet and I now have a
Processor Performance option in energy saver.
I know a few users had posted this and I think it was in on MacWorld's
site too. (I run like this so I can take the PB home and I don't have
to do a data synchronize.)
I welcome other feedback on 10.3.6, let me know your experience with it.