|OS X 10.5.2 Update/Leopard Graphics Update 1.0 Feedback
Reports last Updated: 2/22/2008 (9:30AM Eastern)
This page has reader reports on specific improvements, problems or compatibility issues with the 10.5.2 update/Leopard Graphics Update 1.0 as well as links to Apple downloads and Docs on 10.5.2. (Note: I usually do a clean Reboot before applying the update and do not use the Mac for anything until the update is completely installed (including Optimizing/prebinding phase). Cautious users (including me) generally prefer to update using the "Combo" updater and some even suggest running RP before and after the update as well. Checking the disk for errors, disconnecting any connected devices (FW/USB) and checking the author's site of any 3rd party haxies, drivers, addons, etc. you have installed before applying a version update is also highly recommended. I'd never tried it before personally but one reader in the past has ran updates from a "safe boot" (shift key down). And BTW - not to preach on this but remember HAVING A BOOTABLE BACKUP of your current drive is worth the cost of an external FW/USB case and drive. (If your time and data is worth anything at all...)
As an FYI - Apple also posted a WebObjects Update 5.4.1 for Mac OS X 10.5.
Reader Reports on 10.5.2: (later posts first but separate area for 2008 Mac Pro reports)
If you find any pros or cons with the 10.5.2 update/Leopard Graphics update 1.0, let me know. (Remember as with any OS X version update, check your 3rd party addons first for any updates or developer notes on 10.5.2 compatibility. If you see a problem, include the version(s) of any 3rd party software addons/drivers, haxies, startup/login items, etc. you're using. (Cautious users do a clean reboot, use the Combo Updater, check for updates to any 3rd party addons/login/startup items, codecs, etc. and remember HAVING A BOOTABLE BACKUP of your current drive is worth the cost of an external FW/USB case and drive if your time and data is worth anything at all and especially worth doing before an OS X version update.)
BTW: Make sure to read the Apple doc I linked with info "About the Mac OS X 10.5.2 Update" - it includes a list of improvements/changes by topic. (Several readers asked if List view in Dock was new, etc. - it's one of many items mentioned in the About doc.)
Sonnet eSATA Expresscard user: (added to the Express34 card reports page also)
"I did not have any problems with my Sonnet eSATA Express 34 card on 10.5.1 (Are/were you using an SATA only drive case? One of the earlier reports noted previous issues were due to some Combo USB+eSATA case bridges.-Mike) Today after working on 10.5.2 for one week, Airport hung up when inserting the card.
I also recognized sound problems with the 10.5.2 update and the card. The MotU Ultralite driver had to be restarted after unplugging the card since the 5.2 update. Going back to 10.5.1, all is fine again.
SIIG eSATA Expresscard (followup): (added to the Express34 card reports page also)
"I wrote you on Jan. 7th about my experience (bad) with a SIIG E-SATA II 2-Port ExpressCard-M. I had been hoping that the 10.5.2 update might remedy matters, as it seems to have done for one of your readers but no such luck. I did get back in touch with SIIG and after a week got the following response which holds out some hope:
How long have you had this card?
This card will only work up to 10.4.6. We recently found out that the
firmware doesn't work on newer Mac OS reliably due to the Apple updates
If you can exchange it with your vendor, please do so and get part
number SC-SAEE22-S1. However, the Mac driver doesn't come with
SC-SAEE22-S1 and you'll need to contact us for the driver at that time.
Please contact our RMA department for a replacement if you cannot
exchange this with the vendor. If you use our RMA procedure, please
request an exchange of part numbers, SC-SAEE12-S1 for part number
SC-SAEE22-S1and to include the MAC driver.
OWC sold me the SC-SAEE12-S1 in October when I was using the last version of Tiger (10.4.10 or 11). I'll try the RMA and let you now what comes of it.
All the best, Marius"
USB 2.0 PCI card/Connected Memory Stick: (2 reports)
"It seems my generic VIA chip (6212L) does better than NEC chip card mentioned (below). Because mine also needs no driver installed (He didn't mention any driver needed and there's been native support for some NEC USB 2.0 chip based USB 2.0 cards since OS X 10.2.8 IIRC. Although as noted on the older page here of FW and USB PCI Card/deep sleep support reports, historically connected storage class USB devices prevented sleep.-Mike) and have less problems with 10.4.
(MDD G4 Tower Dual 867Hz)
In 10.4: If I don't eject the stick before sleep, the Mac will sleep, and will warn about
not put away properly. But all the ports still function.
However, if I eject the stick before sleep but keep it connected to the port. The Mac will
hang, no signal to screen, fans still runs. It requires turning off by pushing power button.
Fortunately, now in 10.5.2, I can eject the stick before sleep and keep it connected to the port without problem. Still, if I don't eject it before, the warning will show-up.
Earlier report from yesterday:
"Hi Mike, Update on my generic (NEC chipset) USB 2.0 PCI card in an MDD (FW800) Dual 1.25 GHz (details in my e-mail of 3/2/2005):
On Tiger it became impossible to sleep the system with a memory stick connected. On 10.5.1 it got worse. It still would not sleep but if sticks were unmounted and removed first the system would sleep but on wake up any of the USB ports which had had a stick connected to them would no longer function at all until the system was restarted. They would then not even work with non storage devices and appeared to be unpowered.
After updating to 10.5.2 it now sleeps and wakes OK. I do get the "device not put away properly" warning after wake-up but I guess that provided I make sure the device is not actually reading or writing when the sleep command is given, all should be OK. Even this may not be a problem since when a stick is connected it takes much longer (half a minute or more) before sleep begins and during this time the stick LED flashes so I assume the system now does some needed housekeeping before sleeping that it did not do with earlier OS versions.
"10.5.2 issues on mac mini 1.66GHz. Have seen two issues:
1) IR receiver disappears from Profiler after reboot causing Apple Remote to go away. SMC reset fixes this until you reboot or put the system to sleep after which it happens again...
2) BT icon reports "Bluetooth Not Available" if you reboot with any paired BT device on. If you shut them all off, then reboot again - it initializes the BT module properly and you can use the paired devices...just leave them off during reboot. Lame!
Anyone else see this? (I asked if he'd done the update using the Combo updater - worth a try reinstalling 10.5.2 using the Combo update regardless)
(BTW - one of the g5 tower owners with install problems below (Andrew) sent an update after a reinstall with 10.5.2 combo updater he's OK now. I'd prefer to use the Combo updater from the get-go and for those with major install problems maybe even update from a safe boot.)
(added 2/18/2008 - updated 2/19/2008)
"First of all, congratulations, and thank you for the most informative Mac site on the web!! I updated my MacBook Pro (2.4GHz, LED backlit version) to 10.5.2 together with the Leopard Graphics update a couple of days ago. Since then I have noticed a really weird problem. I'm seeing random pixel noise appearing on the screen. I started off on my external monitor, and then spread to the LCD screen. I tried unplugging the external monitor and resetting the PRAM and SMC, which seemed to fix the problem for a while, but when I plugged the monitor back in, the problem returned!
I tried changing the DVI cable, but didn't see much difference. Now for the weird part, I tried booting off a clone of my original Tiger disk (before I upgraded to Leopard) and the problem is still happening! I wonder if the 10.5.2 update changed any firmware on the graphics card? It looks like a software problem, as the noise changes depending on what is currently displayed on the screen.
I've attached a JPG showing the problem. Hopefully this is a driver bug - I have read about other problems with the MBP's 8600M GT card and Leopard. Then again, maybe it really is a GPU h/w problem that coincidentally started around when I installed 10.5.2...
Have you heard about this problem from any of your other readers?
(another 8600M MBP owner also mentioned some similar problems)
(he later wrote)
I just noticed the post from "Jack" on your 10.5.2 feedback page (earlier post below). Looks like the same problem I am having, and it is an identical MacBook Pro.
I did a bit more experimenting. Once the problem occurs, the only way to fix it is to disconnect the external monitor and reset the SMC. Then everything is fine until I plug the DVI cable back in again. Even if I unplug the cable, the problem persists on the MBP's built-in LCD screen.
I tried resetting the SMC and PRAM with the external monitor connected. Now I have the "clamshell problem" and the resolution is fixed at 1440x900!! I didn't have that problem before. I am going to try reinstalling 10.5.2 without the graphics update, as one of your other readers suggested.
(the next day he wrote)
...I did a bit more experimenting... it is looking like a hardware problem :-(
I booted off my old super-dupered Tiger external backup disk, and the same problem was there. Suspicious, as it definitely didn't exist back then. So, having some time on my hands, I freed up some space and installed Vista via bootcamp. When I booted into Vista, same problem! So I think I can rule out the 10.5.2/Graphics update, unless it somehow screwed with the firmware on the graphics card. I looked inside both updates with Pacifist, and there didn't seem to be any firmware there, just Leopard drivers...
It is definitely a new problem, so it must have occurred by unlucky coincidence around the same time I did the 10.5.2 upgrade. Maybe the sequence of rebooting stressed out an existing problem component, or something?? (shouldn't normally)
To make matters worse, the problem is getting worse, and now happens on the MBP's screen, whether or not there is an external display connected. However... the wrinkle is that the problem only occurs when the MBP is plugged into the mains. On battery power, everything is A-OK. I wonder if the power adapter is producing too much or too little juice, or is it a fried GPU? Either way, it will be in to see the Apple Genius Bar as soon as I can find time...
"There seems to be an issue for the Powerbook 12" G4 with the Leopard Graphics update. A number of users have found that the Apple DVD Player will hang the computer (forcing a reboot) after installing the Graphics Update. So far the only fix is to revert to an earlier version of system s/w. There are threads about this on the Apple discussion boards:
It seems as though it is sufficient to install 10.5.2 but not the Graphics Update 1.0 in these machines.
USB to Ethernet Adapter (including MacBook Air USB/Enet Adapter) Notes:
"Just wanted to share something i discovered a few minutes ago:
I often use usb-to-ethernet adapters with macs that don't have slots for plugging in additional network-cards. i used to install the driver from sustainable softworks. (http://sustworks.com/site/news_usb_ethernet.html)
since i assumed that 10.5.2 will bring along the driver for the apple usb-ethernet adapter i tried to connect one of my D-Link DUB-E100 and leopard recognized it immediately, very nice!
Also there seems to be a usb-to-gigabit-ethernet adapter, although it'll top out at 480Mbps. 10.5.2 has drivers for this adapter too (Buffalo LUA-U2-GT). i couldn't verify the buffalo since i don't own one (and they're unavailable here in switzerland).
(he later wrote)
another sidenote: the french macbidouille states that the MacBook Air USB-Ethernet Adapter won't work with another mac than the MacBook Air. Not true, tried it today, just plugged the Adapter into a free USB port on my Mac Pro and it worked flawless.
Regards, Michael B."
I asked if he had a MacBook Air $99 USB Superdrive to try - a reader with several other macs said he had no luck getting it to work with other than the MacBook Air (other macs had USB 2.0 ports and 10.5.2 installs also).
Nvidia 4600 Ti AGP card (no display on wake): (Any other Ti card owners see this?)
"Thanks as always for being an excellent source of Mac troubleshooting info! I had a problem with the 10.5.2 update and an old Quicksilver G4 PowerMac.
After waking from sleep the display remained dark, but I could access the machine via screen sharing, so I figured it was video related. I installed a GeForce 4 Ti upgrade card a couple years back, and sure enough swapping that back out for the original GeForce 2 fixed the problem. My bug report to Apple is below:
After application of the 10.5.2 update on a PowerMac G4 the machine will wake from sleep, but the display remains off. This occurs no matter the method used to sleep and wake (machine power button, Cinema display power switch, Apple menu.)
The machine was originally an 867MHz machine, but has a Mercury Extreme upgrade card. I had also installed a GeForce 4 Titanium video card upgrade. Reverting to the original GeForce 2MX card resolved the problem, so I suspect a driver issue.
Thanks a lot
It may not help but did you try a PRAM zap (or nvram clear). The other thing I thought of was if the Ti card had the latest firmware, as I remembered an Apple Nvidia card firmware update released back in 2002. (It was to add support for Cinema HD displays back then.) I checked the link (added to the FAQ back in 2002) but it doesn't mention the Ti card - only the GeForce2 MX, GeForce2 MX TwinView, GeForce3, and GeForce4 MX. (In case anyone missed it back then, here's the Apple page w/download for the NVidia FCode flasher 1.1, but it was released in the OS X 10.2.x era... hopefully no issues running it under Leopard for those that need it.)
More on Transparent MenuBar Toggle Option (not appearing):
"I love your site btw... I have two iBook G4 1.33 ghz w/ 1.5 gigs of ram, 80 gig Hitachi 7200 RPM drives, combo-drive models. They have the ATI 9550 32 meg graphics cards that DO support core image, as I can see by running products that require them, and as reported by System Profiler:
Chipset Model: ATY,M12
VRAM (Total): 32 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x4e56
Revision ID: 0x0080
ROM Revision: 113-xxxxx-117
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1024 x 768
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Hardware Accelerated
Main Display: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
I installed 10.5.2 and the Graphics Update, but neither of them have the option to disable the transparent menu bar. This is disappointing, since I find it annoying.
Again, both models have this issue. Neither of them have any third party applications or add ons that should affect anything.
A Mac Pro owner with multiple graphics cards said it also does not appear as an option *if* he had more than one graphics card installed.
"On my MacBook Pro 2.4/4 G RAM after the update to 10.5.2 (and the graphics update - used software update) when using Safari on some web sites I have to click on the finder background to get the site to finish rendering....odd! Also have had the keyboard be unresponsive on startup a couple of times - requires a restart. These things were not problems before the updates.
Since you used Software update, may not help but I'd try using the Combo updater/download versions of the installer (after a clean reboot also). No Safari (or in general other problems) seen here on this AL iMac updated that way.
(added 2/15/2008 - updated 2/18/2008)
"Hey Mike, I've had nothing but trouble after installing 10.5.2 on my Dual 2GHz G5 (using Apple Software Update). Installing 10.5.2 seemed to go fine, but afterwards the Leopard Graphics Update would fail to install, with the error message, "The installer could not install some files in '/'. Contact the software manager for assistance". I tried both Software Update and downloading the standalone installer. I also tried re-installing the 10.5.2 update from the standalone installer and got the same error message.
But wait, there's more! After the 10.5.2 update, I also can no longer repair permissions using Disk Utility. I get the following message: "Error: The underlying task reported failure on exit." (I think that may be due to another task accessing the drive? But you said booting from CD also didn't help. I had no problems verifying permissions after 10.5.2 update (combo) on this AL iMac (and a first - no messages/corrections reported). -Mike) Booting from my Leopard install CD does not allow me to fix permissions, nor does running DU from another Mac with the G5 in FireWire Target Disk Mode. (And you cannot "repair" the drive when booted from CD/DVD/other drives either?-Mike)
Lastly, my second internal hard drive is now also behaving oddly, Any time I drag a file to the Trash, I get a dialog box telling me: "The item "(file name)" will be deleted immediately. Are you sure you want to continue?"
I've run DiskWarrior from the CD, run a full suite of tests (including surface scan) in TechTool Pro 4.6.1 and tried fsck in Single User mode. No major errors found. Nothing seems to help.
I'm part of a discussion on Apple's board about this, but so far no solutions, only more people chiming in with similar experiences:
I had no problem updating to 10.5.2 on my MacBook, but the update to my desktop has been a real booger.
(I've still not updated my G5 tower to 10.5.2 (fell Sunday during a bad windstorm and messed up my back and ribs, really put a dent in my productivity...) For those with repeatd problems as mentioned before as an ultra-conservative option - maybe try updating from a safe boot (shift key down) using the download installers (The 10.5.2 Combo updater and graphics update downloads). (One reader that had major install problems also later said using Leopard Cache cleaner helped.)
Update - Andrew later wrote he's finally OK:)
"It's Andrew again, the one with the misbehaving Dual 2GHz G5 that wouldn't install the Leopard Graphics Update, wouldn't allow me to repair permissions, etc.
After I had my new 500 gig drive in place and fully backed up, I just couldn't resist. Ran the standalone update to 10.5.2, rebooted, repaired permissions, ran the Leopard Graphics Update standalone, rebooted, fixed permissions, and everything seems to be running fine. No installation problems, no permissions repair problems, no file deletion problems.
It is conceivable that this was all the result of a dying drive—the one I replaced was the stock 160 GB that came with my G5—but if so, then it was something that S.M.A.R.T. monitoring, plus the full suite of TechTool Pro tests was unable to identify. I'm not technically astute enough to know, and at this point I just want to forget the whole thing ever happened. ;-)
I prefer to use the download/Combo updaters from the get-go... (over the years reinstalling using Combo updater has helped in many (not all) cases when initial OS X updates had problems.)
Sonnet Tango (USB 2.0/FW400) PCI card/USB Hub user:
"I have a Sonnet Tango 2.0 PCI USB/FW 400 card in a G4 MDD Dual 1.25 GHz. It worked fine in Tiger. Starting with 10.5, if I have a hub attached to it, the system hangs on sleep - even if there are no devices on the hub. If I have non mass storage devices connected without a hub (printer, scanner, EyeTV 250+), it sleeps fine. (FYI - sleep problems with USB PCI cards (with any storage class device connected at least) is -very- common, going back long before OS X Tiger or Leopard. - ref: Reader Feedback on Firewire and USB card Deep Sleep Support.-Mike)
This problem was not resolved with 10.5.2. My system still hangs on sleep if a hub is attached to the Tango.
10.5.2 also introduces a new problem. Every time I wake the system up, I get two USB over-current notices. This happens even if the only USB device connected is my Apple keyboard and mouse.
(he later wrote, in reply to my comments below)
Yes, I always use the Combo updater. Yes, I've done that. (USB device disconnect/reconnect - using different USB port, etc.) I don't have any problems getting devices recognized, just getting the system to sleep. The overcurrent notice is completely bogus. While it says it disabled the hub in question, no devices are disabled - everything works after wake. It happens even if just the Apple keyboard/mouse are connected.
I have been running mostly without the hub, which is a huge pain. I haven't even tested mass storage USB devices under Leopard. The sleep hangs are all with related to the presence of a hub. Just having the hub connected with no devices at all on the hub, is enough for it to hang.
Running with my Canon MP780 AIO and my EyeTV 250+ connected to the card, it sleeps just fine (although occasionally it takes 2 minutes to sleep). I've tried Stratitec, Belkin, and Gigaware USB 2.0 hubs.
When it hangs, all of my firewire disks spin down and the monitor shuts off, but the fan keeps running and it never goes in to final sleep. All I can do is power it off. It won't wake up.
If I leave the hub disconnected, put the system to sleep, connect the hub, then wake it, it wakes fine and all devices are visible.
Just another comment... I ran the Apple Firewire Debugger on 10.5 or 10.5.1. Blasted system won't fail when that is running - goes to sleep properly every time, so Apple can't get any information on to see exactly what is happening. Grrr...
Several initial Leopard (pre-10.5.2 release) users had said USB devices were not recognized after waking from sleep (a restart was required). Even some that used only onboard USB ports saw that, but I hadn't with my AL iMac (onboard USB ports or attached Ministack's Hubs). A Feb. 12th report below from a USB 2.0 PCI (Belkin) card owner said 10.5.2 fixed that for him - but nothing seems 100% common (problems or fixes) with OS X updates...
Not normally related to hubs, but a common tip for USB device recognition problems after an OS X update (i.e. printer, UPS USB connection, etc.) is to try disconnecting/reconnecting the device (with OS running) - at times even using a different USB port connection may help. (I've seen that once with a UPS USB connection and even USB iPods directly connected to a Mac.) And sometimes reinstalling an OS X update using the "Combo" updater download can help with odd problems after an update. I used (and recommended) the Mac OS X 10.5.2 Combo Updater instead of software update. (I sometimes do a force prebinding again from the terminal also and sometimes a reinstall of the combo update can help - for the extremely conservative, RP before the update and even a safe boot is done.)
More on MacBook Pro/Clamshell use Issue: (reported earlier - that reader said a 10.5.2 reinstall w/o Leopard Graphics update applied helped)
"I've got a MacBook Pro 2.4 GHZ (Santa Rosa), 15.4" display and 4GB of RAM. The 10.5.2 automatic update worked fine but when I applied the video upgrade my system displayed exactly the same characteristics as the report on 2/12/08. (Clamshell use issue?) Prior to doing a reinstall I tried all of the normal fixes, reinstalling the combo update, running a pre-bind repair utility, resetting PRAM, repairing disk permissions......, nothing worked, I didn't contact Apple support as I had read the report you had already posted and decided it would probably burn hours of my time with no result. I had to fallback to my Leopard install disks and do a reinstall saving my personal settings. Once I did that I applied only the 10.5.2 combo update and everything work perfectly (One minor hassle, I had to reset my passwords).
Thanks for the great site and timely information!
(I asked he was referring to the MBP clamshell mode issue a reader reported earlier (and later said not installing the Graphics update helped))
I had the clamshell issue and my external monitor would only display the same 1440 X 900 screen as the notebook display. I could mirror or have the desktop spread across both displays, but could not have different screen resolutions. Also the Detect displays function didn't appear to work.
I have a 24" LCD that has a native resolution of 1920 X 1200 so as you can imagine this was quite annoying not to mention hard on the eyes.
Airport Disk Notes:
"I installed this on a Core2Duo Mini and CoreDuo MacBook Pro. It fixed a longstanding problem with Airport Disk, where after accessing the Airport it was not possible to eject the disk from the desktop 100% of the time, and sometimes a reboot was necessary to do this. Not being able to eject / disengage the Airport Disk would prevent the Airport disk to go to sleep (unless the previous accessing desktop was rebooted to "release" the Airport disk). This problem was a significant pain and mentally prevented me from making much use of Airport Disk. I'm happy that it appears to be fixed.
Also, after installing the Leopard graphics update on my CD MBP, for the first time, I saw a brief flash of different colored polygons behind my Parallels window when I started up the Windows XP VM. Other than this, the program ran fine.
BTW - Some had hoped for Time Machine support for AirDisks (USB drives connected to AE bases USB port).
Another ATI X8xx/30in Cinema Display User: (2 earlier reports below)
"I read your reports concerning dual G5s with 30" Apple Cinema Display and ATI X800XT video card.
I'm running two dual G5s (1.8 & 2.0), both fitted with ATI X800XT video car Mac Edition and 30" display. (see earlier post below, which also has links to previous posts last fall on this problem, seen by several (but not all) 30in Cinema/ATI X800/850 owners.-Mike)
ATI stuff is: Model: ATY,R420; ROM#: 113-A35801-109; FCode: 5.0; NDVR version: 1.1.0f47.
(Is the ATI Rom Xtender file present? ref: this Oct. 31st, 2007 news page post/tip on Display/Sleep problems in 10.5 with ATI Radeon cards-Mike)
I tried to install Leopard on a freshly formatted drive and the problems (see below) are still there. Resetting PRAM, NVRAM etc... did nothing.
The only QT extension I have is Flip4Mac and ATI software. ON the second G5 I have Flip4Mac and DivX. There's no difference between the 2 G5s.
I also suffer from the following problems since I upgraded to Leopard. Updating to 10.5.2 and Leopard graphics didn't fixed a single graphic issue. I believe Apple is playing the waiting game here.
- Computer hangs and has to be restarted when using fast user switching. (Fast user switching freezes were mentioned also in one of the post in Nov. 16th, 2007 news page post on ATI Cards/30in Cinema Display problems in Leopard)
- Computer displays green , magenta, yellow, blue (and other colors) flashes. Color stays the same until restart, the color changes from the next restart. This happens quite frequently when quitting an application.
- Computer display is torn vertically at about 1/3 from the left when playing QT video full screen.
- Moving large windows sometimes also produces the vertically torn image.
- Computer hangs with SnapZ Pro and has to be restarted.
- Computer hangs when reloading dashboard widgets within Dashboard.
- Dock seems to quit, it disappears for a split second. This happens frequently when quitting an application. There's no trace of a crashes in crash reporter logs.
- Menu bar is not really translucent, with 10.5.2 I can disable translucency and it makes a cosmetic difference. (also mentioned in the Nov. post - at the native res. of the 30in some noted no transparent dock/menu - which normally is a sign of no core image support also. Setting the display to lower than native res. modes didn't show that problem.-Mike)
All these problems can be avoided if I set display resolution to something smaller than 2560x1600 (native 30" resolution) or disable Quartz Extreme or start the computer with shift key pressed (I guess it disables Quartz Extreme). IIRC, video card max texture is 2048, can it play a role as it's smaller than the max resolution dimension (2560)?
HTH (no name given)"
While on the subject, here's a Nov 1st, 2007 news page post on ATI Displays utility and OS X Leopard. (Still waiting on a public release of at least 4.5.9 (from the G5 X1900 installer pkg). Has notes there on other versions also...
More WoW user notes: Initial WoW user feedback on these updates noted improved performance although a 2008 Mac Pro/Nvidia 8800 card owner said he saw some artifacts at times during play. Here's another report on that (from MacBook Pro/Nvidia 8600M)
Leopard Graphics 1.0: WoW Graphics Corruption
Firstly, love the site. Keep up the great work. I installed the 10.5.2 Update along with the Leopard graphics update. I played WoW for a few hours like I always do and alt-tabbed away from it. My entire screen was covered entirely in squarish video-garbage. I tabbed back to WoW before it finally locked up hard and I hard to restart the machine. Tried repeating after reboot by aggresively alt-tabbing back and forth and could not repeat.
Crash logs noted nothing in particular. I play for hours at a time everyday without problem and this is the first time it has ever crashed like this before. I can only blame the update.
Attached is an image capture with my iPhone showing my graphics corruption.
(here's a clip of the larger photo sent)
Chipset Model: GeForce 8600M GT
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 256 MB
Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x0407
Revision ID: 0x00a1
ROM Revision: 3175
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro3,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.4 GHz
Memory: 2 GB
Boot ROM Version: MBP31.0070.B02
SMC Version: 1.16f8
I asked Jack if he had seen/checked for any clamshell mode issues as a previous report here from a Macbook Pro owner noted a problem initially after applying both the 10.5.2 and Leopard Graphics 1.0 update - later said reinstalling 10.5.2 but not the Graphics update solved it.
Problems with Install:
(added 2/14/2008 - updated 2/15)
"I wrote in a while back when 10.5.1 was released to note that it had hosed my install. The exact same thing happened with 10.5.2, both through Combo Update and Software Update. (I can't remember all past mails so just for the record - can you include details on your Mac/config?-Mike) Just like in 10.5.1, immediately after applying the update the system reboots. Upon reboot I end up at the gray Apple screen with the spinning gear. The system will not progress past this point. I've tried troubleshooting in Single User mode with no success. There's nothing in the logs that I've seen that might provide an indication of what is wrong. The system will also not boot through Safe Mode. It's effectively dead. An Archive and Install succeeded in restoring the system to a usable condition, but that's obviously not optimal.
I'm not running anything particularly special.. no APE, for example. (any addon login/startup items?-Mike) The only things I'm running that come close to system software (I would imagine) are Little Snitch 2, and iStats Menus. I've tried uninstalling both and reinstalling 10.5.2 (both through Software Update and the Combo Update) with no success. Why can't Apple get this right?
(he later wrote)
I performed an Erase and Install to my USB HDD this evening as a test, and immediately installed 10.5.2. Same thing. It will not boot past the gray Apple and spinning gear.
I would imagine this can put to rest the argument that it's external software.
If you ever try a clean erase/reinstall on the internal drive let me know. (And again to be ultra-conservative, maybe even use the Combo updater after a safe boot (shift key down.) I'd be rich if I had $1 for every mail on OS X update problems (that are not 100% common) - even though it may be a small percentage of the total users, that's little consolation for those with the problem... (I had zero problems so far after applying 10.5.2 combo updater after clean reboot - but I had basically no addons/codecs, etc. installed except for EyeTVhelper (installed by default by EyeTV as a login/startup item). Although you said you removed addons like little snitch, etc. I wonder if a clean OS X 10.5 install and then 10.5.2 update would fare better (after doing a clean wipe/check of the drive). May not but at some point it's worth a try... Personally I wish apple would go back to the old (pre-OS X) installer method - where all unnecessary tasks (even the finder) were shut down for updates.
iDVD and Macbook Pro:
"...It looks like Apple may have finally solved the iDVD crashes on Macbook Pros with this update. Strange that it didn't take an iDVD update to fix it. Mine is a Macbook Pro 2.6ghz. It was running both Tiger and Leopard with the problem described below.
I use iMovie and iDVD all the time, but when I upgraded to a Macbook Pro and iDVD 08, I could barely use iDVD anymore. The newer themes would crash the whole system down (strangely, if I was using iTunes would just keep on playing...) and the mouse would become unresponsive. Only solution would be a hard restart. Force quit and all other keys were dead. I could replicate this problem every time. Seems like the theme "revolution" was the worst... It wouldn't even render the menus before crashing. If I used an 2.8 aluminum iMac, the same exact project burned fine.
(I remember this came up shortly after iLife 08 was released - there were some tips/apple kbase doc w/tips posted on that back then - I never saw it here w/AL iMac, PB G4, G5 Tower or eMac (all using ATI graphics btw) - all updated via Life 08 Family Pack (w/all iLife updates applied) - and some systems did have many previous version iDVD themes.-Mike
A visit to the Mac support discussion boards found many other users with the same problem. A few knowledgeable users tracked it down to a graphic board hanging issue with nVidia, though several older macbook pros with ATI also were freezing up.
The discussion has been locked by apple, but its right here:
Anyway, it looks like they finally fixed it! YIPPIE!
I'm almost done burning my DVD and no crashes yet. Never even got to rendering the movie before on the macbook pro...it always crashed first. I'm very happy that this was finally fixed!
One minor issue with the 10.5.2 update: if you lose your internet connection while it is downloading in software update, SU quits and asks you to restart so it can install the nonexistent update, then crashes. Then when you restart and run SU again, it asks you to restart again to install the nonfunctional update. The only way I could remedy this is by deleting the incomplete package from in my Macintosh HD/Library/Updates folder and then running SU again. (I prefer to download the updaters though-Mike) Keep up the ggood work!
I also asked Dave if he'd seen the Clamshell issue a MBP owner reported earlier (later blaming the Leopard graphics update).
Update from MacBook Pro owner on Clamshell use Issue:
"Well after some additional troubleshooting and reading other experiences, I updated to 10.5.2 without the separate Leopard graphics update 1.0 and clamshell support with an external display works as it should. The culprit seems to be the graphics update.
His previous report on the problem is below (yesterday)
FW800 Express34 Card User: (All 10.5.2/Expresscard reports also added to the previous page of Express34 Cards page.)
"A while back a wrote to you regarding a expresscard sleep crash I was seeing in Tiger. Have something new in Leopard (though the sleep crash is gone!) Seeing this in 10.5.1 & 10.5.2
I usually keep my system tethered to my desk, with my two external drives connected by my Expresscard and the second monitor attached by DVI. When I want to move around the house, I detach the whole thing and am usually good to go. Since installing Leopard, unmounting the drives and ejecting the card seems to lead to a near total system freeze once I get around to detaching the monitor. Here's the sequence of events.
1. Eject both drives from the desktop.
2. Power off Expresscard. (Ejecting / Not ejecting the card seems to make no difference)
3. Detach DVI cable from laptop.
The moment I get to step three, the computer freezes, everything except mouse movement. The cursor moves freely, but nothing can be selected and nothing responds, with only a hard reboot as a way out. The usual momentary effect of the primary screen turning blue then returning to desktop view when detaching a monitor does not occur.
It seems to be a combination of powering off the card and detaching the monitor that is causing this. Detaching the monitor without powering off the card seems to pose no problem. Detaching the monitor first then removing the card only seems to delay the freeze, which will then occur once the monitor is reattached (unless I reboot beforehand).
Resetting the SMC has no effect.
MacBook Pro 2.16 Ghz Core Duo
NitroAV FW800 ExpressCard
2 Wiebetech Traydocks w/500GB SATA Drives
Viewsonic VA1912wb Monitor
eSATA Express34 Card User:
"Hi Mike, I've been using an Apiotek eSATA ExpressCard34 successfully in 10.5.1 for about two weeks, and now in 10.5.2 on my Core Duo MacBook Pro using Apiotek's 1.1.9 drivers. My enclosure is an AMS Venus T4S which is eSATA only (not a combo with USB/eSATA). It uses the SiliconImage 4726 chipset. I have two WD 500GB drives installed in it in JBOD mode (it can take up to four drives) and regularly can reach 75mbytes/sec or faster in benchmarks.
My only real complaint is that the SiliconImage 4726 configuration utility appears to only be compatible with Tiger (won't install in Leopard), so configuring RAID or other options on the enclosure doesn't work. I attempted to configure it while booted in to Windows but the resulting volume was not usable in OS X. Unfortunately I don't regularly have a bootable copy of Tiger around to experiment further.
CPU Upgraded Quicksilver, iBook G4 owner:
"I would like to report my experience with the Leopard 10.5.2/graphics update in my computers: In my Quicksilver 2001 (G4 QS, upgraded with Sonnet Duet 1.8 GHz + 896 Mb of RAM) the installation went fine and all the programs seem working fine so far. My main concern was related to gain better performance from the original nVidia Geforce2 MX that was not so snappier as in Tiger, using 10.5.1. It appears that everything is faster now, including video performance although playing movies from iTunes and some DVD (burned media out from iMovie HD and iDVD) in full screen, seems a bit jumpy. Interestingly, the Time Machine (TM) interface remains very slow but the glowing galaxy that should appear at the far end of the time space when using a computer with a video card that support core image (effect that was absent in 10.5.1 obviously), appears briefly in the background when I browse back and forth in time. I know I should upgrade my video card to obtain top performance but hoped that the 10.5.2/graphics update would squeeze more from my original nVidia as it was on Tiger.
In my iBook G4 12" (1.2 GHz w/ 768 RAM + ATI Mobility Radeon 9200), the installation went fine but the computer hung on restart at the gray screen. Force reboot, installed Leopard Graphics Update 1.0 without further problems. The already more capable ATI video card seems to gain performance compared with 10.5.1. In time machine there is no glowing galaxy nor moving stars, but the interface runs more smoothly than on my Quicksilver.
BTW. I have a second internal HD in my G4 QS (128 Gb) which I use as a Time Machine Backup drive for my two computers: directly from the quicksilver and wireless from my iBook using a DLink DI-624 wifi router. This was configured in 10.5.1 and remains working fine in 10.5.2. The only complain regards the fact that the iBook backup location files is out of the first backup folder created with QS. For the iBook Time Machine created a HD image which resides at the root level of the QS second drive that get mounted on my iBook desktop as TM need it.
More on Translucent MenuBar Toggle: (an earlier report from a 9200 (flashed PC model) Digital Audio system owner reported the option was not there - but that GPU didn't have Core Image hardware acceleration.)
translucent menu bar option
This seems to affect 'all' Mac Pros. (I've personally tested this on 3 different machines.) If you have more than 1 graphics card installed, the Desktop/Screen Saver Pref Pane will not show the option checkbox. You can remove all but 1 graphics card, boot up and the menu bar translucency checkbox will show up in the Desktop/SS Pref Pane. Check or Un-check the option to your desired preference and then shut-down, re-install your graphics card and start-up again. Your preference will be saved. I know this is a workaround, but it worked for me. I hope it will help other readers.
His problem I think (single graphics card as far as I know also) was that he had an RV280 GPU, which as shown in his ASP info didn't have Core Image hardware acceleration (RV350 or better required for ATI cards). Normally w/o core image support, the dock won't be transparent either IIRC. (Apple had a kbase doc on that IIRC, but I don't have the link handy now.)
USB 2.0 PCI Card (Belkin):
"Belkin USB 2.0 PCI Card w/OS X 10.5.2
It seems as though the sleep problem with usb 2.0 cards has been fixed, at least for the Belkin cards. (What model Belkin card? An F5U220?-Mike) In 10.5.1, anytime my 2002 Quicksilver went to sleep, I would lose all functionality of the USB 2 card. Now it works fine from sleep. No problems so far, just fixes. By the way, I have a 2002 Quicksilver with a 1.8 ghz Gigadesigns processor.
I'm guessing the Belkin card is NEC chip based? Hopefully the update helps everyone that had USB PCI card problems w/Leopard since the original release (see links below). I've even had some onboard port users of some USB devices say after waking from sleep the device wasn't recognized. (Not seen that here w/10.5.1 though, even those connected via the Ministack's hubs.) Here's some links to early (OS X 10.5.0) reports on USB 2.0 PCI cards (from the Nov. 2007 news page):
30in Cinema/ATI X850/X800 owners:
"I wrote to you earlier about the problems I've been having with my 30" Cinema Display with an ATI Radeon X850 XT card in a Powermac G5. (ref: Nov. 16th, 2007 news page posts regarding 30in Cinema/ATI card owners that had seen similar problems (at native 30in res mode) - although as always, not everyone with an ATI X series and 30in Cinema saw the problem (including some X800 owners).-Mike)
I had hoped that 10.5.2 would fix this, especially after Apple Tech support finally agreed with me last January that they could duplicate the problem and expressed a commitment to fix it. But I'm sorry to say that the problem is still there, and Leopard is still not usable for me.
And another 30in Cinema/ATI X800 owner wrote:
"I have a 2003 dual-2.0 GHz PowerMac G5 with a Radeon X800 XT card driving a 30" Apple display. Ever since 10.5 was released, I've had a problem playing movies, as I get a vertical "tearing" about a third of the way across the display. (Even some early reviews of the 30in Cinema noted the display was not best suited for fast-moving content - some readers also noted tearing with some screensavers. But I assume you were happy with performance in OS X Tiger?-Mike)
Also, the QuickTime "HUD" overlay display (that shows a timeline for the movie) isn't overlaying properly.
Upgrading to 10.5.2 and the Leopard Graphics Drivers update did NOT solve this problem.
Do you have ATI ROM Xtender installed? (ref Oct. 31st, 2007 news page post)Just for the record, do you have any 3rd party QT codecs or addons installed? (but as another 30in/ATI X8xx card owner mentioned above, others with this combo have seen problems before in Leopard. (ref: "ATI Cards/30in Cinema Display problems in Leopard")
Mac Mini owner:
(added 2/12/2008 - updated 2/14/2008)
"I just had a major "melt down" under 10.5.2 on my early Intel Mac Mini. (I have all but the latest iLife update installed.) (So I assume leopard graphics update 1.0 was also applied) It wouldn't reboot (from menu or keyboard), dock wouldn't open, and cycling background photos got stuck. I couldn't get Activity Monitor to open, but everything on desktop responded VERY slowly, even after force quitting nearly everything and re-launching Finder. It didn't appear to be a true freeze but seemed more like some OS corruption of old! (Did you install via SU or Combo download? Were no other apps running during the install? Do you have 3rd party startup/login items installed?-Mike)
I have a program "SecuritySpy" (What version of it? 1.5.3? (I like to have version numbers included in problem reports that note 3rd party addons, just in case it's an issue with them, or a later version/update is released the next hour/day/week, etc.) I just checked the Security Spy home page but don't see anything newer than v1.5.3 (dec 10th, 2007 - noted in bold "SecuritySpy is fully compatible with Mac OS X 10.5 "Leopard") there as of Tuesday afternoon.-Mike) which has an option of displaying a live video feed in a small window. Since 10.5 there has apparently been a buffer overflow that after long displace (display?) sometimes results in portions of the video window being mirrored (whole image, multiple stripes, and/or double high images) in other application's windows (including desktop and menu bar) in pinks and purples. Closing the live video window temporarily ends the mirroring allowing the effects to be erased with the other windows are refreshed. I had earlier seen a similar effect with the live video provided by EyeTV, but have not watched TV for long periods of late. But that leads me to suspect the problem is in some Mac video firmware rather than a specific application. I was hoping that was solved with 10.5.2 and the new video drivers. But after 7 or 8 hours steady live feed last night, it began appearing again. It is not clear that bug is related to today's problem but the possibility of a core buffer overflow seems a possible connection.
Perhaps since this may be a bug that only occurs with 32 bit Mini hardware in a situation that few users are likely to ever encounter, Apple may have little interest in fixing?
(I'd write the author of Security Spy for his comments on this also. (And do you have any addon QT codecs installed? Any other addon startup/login items, etc.?)-Mike)
I've had the SecuritySpy live video window off most of the last 24 hrs. with no further "meltdown." So it is looking more and more like it was the result of a buffer overflow somewhere in the Mac core video process which take the constant TV input Firewire feed from the ADVC, buffers that, then sends to display at the refresh rate for the monitor.
The apparent buffer overflow has been consistent over reinstalling 10.5 from DVD and repeated updates via Software Update application. I make it a practice of closing down nearly all applications prior to actual installation of updates. The only things running on login, are Overflow, SecuritySpy 1.5.3, FuzzyClock, MenuCalendarClock, and EyeTV helper. Except for EyeTV, they are all running the most recent versions which otherwise check out OK with 10.5.x
My impression is that very few users run SecuritySpy or other live video feeds full time on Intel Minis with the live window activated, at least while also doing other significant applications such as Photoshop and such. So this suspected buffer overflow may be rarely encountered. Presumably it could also be a flaw in the Intel CPU with handles the video for the Mini. However it did NOT occur during the first year or more of similar operation with then current OS-X. So the observed symptoms seem to point to a OS bug.
cheers, Dave T."
eSATA Expresscard user says update helped:
"Hi, Mike. I just wanted to report that 10.5.2 apparently fixed completely the infamous expresscard/eSATA hard drive issues that were widely reported since Leopard came out. This is using the existing SI3112 1.1.9 drivers from Silicon Image (which I re-installed after the update) on my MBP 2.0 Ghz.
I am using the Apiotek expresscard/34 solution, but they all use the same chipset (other brands/models require that you use a vendor-provided driver and will fail with the "generic" SI drivers). (FYI - Most all are as mentioned before, but the exception I think is the Firmtek eSATA card. And the Apiotek eSATA card has some of the most favorable feedback here in the past, as well as costing much less than many others)
My WD MyBook Premium ES drive (eSATA/USB2) was one of the affected drivers that would not work with Leopard, as it was the case with "combo" eSATA/USB drivers. It works perfectly now, including Time Machine back-ups (which wouldn't even start before). I had been using it with USB2 since Leopard broke expresscard/eSATA... I've been meaning to write to you to say that the problems were strictly Leopard-related. Now that it's fixed, expresscard/eSATA is a solid combination.
(He later wrote with more details, in reply to some past Express34 eSATA card reports noting no problems in Leopard for instance)
The expresscard/eSATA problems were narrowed to drives with a dual USB/eSATA chipset. "eSATA only drives" were working well. Some expresscard vendors found themselves in a tech support nightmare and said in their web sites that these USB/eSATA dual interface drives have a non-compliant chipset. In any case, compliant or not, they are working well again with 10.5.2.
Best, Adolfo R.
Hopefully others that had problems with their eSATA expresscard setup also finds the update helps. If you're using Leopard with a MacBook Pro and eSATA Expresscard, let me know if the update helps with any problems you've had. Thanks.
Any other MacBook Pro owners see this problem? (Update - see his Feb 13th report above - said reinstall of 10.5.2 w/o Leopard graphics update worked...)
"Please keep this anonymous. Clamshell mode with my MacBook Pro 15in 2.6GHz does not work any more. I called Apple support this morning and they could not address the issue even after escalating to a product specialist level 2. Offered to wait for a fix which could take 5 days, or archive/install the OS to a previous version.
In trying to wake a MBP in clamshell mode(closed lid), the MPB will not wake up. There is no way for it to make the external display the primary, and also fails to recognize the external display properly, forcing the same resolution as the MPB in either mirror or extended mode.
Im off to do an archive/install since this is critical to my work flow.
(For the record I asked if he'd used the -Combo- updater (if not I'd try reinstalling from that - may not help but worth a try before going backwards...))
I did the normal update route, not the combo. I did multiple clean reboots, PMU/PRAM reset...nothing fixed it. Apple support was stumped too. They believe its a bug as well. I'll give the combo update a try and let you know if it has any affect.
OS X 10.5.2 & Linotype FontExplorer X 1.2.2 (Updated w/note v1.2.3 released w/fix)
"Mike, found a problem in 10.5.2
Apple forum thread on 10.5.2 & Linotype FontExplorer X
(They didn't mention a version used (of FontExplorer) but I assume the latest (still good to note the version as there may be an update soon and good to refer to the version that had the problem) If any spot an update to it to address this, let me know. Thanks.-Mike)
version is 1.2.2, and yes, it is the latest. This is a very big deal. I am certain the fix is forthcoming. Will report when it gets here.
(about 15min later he wrote)
1.2.3 version fixes the FontExplorerX issue.
Apple also has a doc not about OS X 10.5.2: Unable to open applications or applications quit if Linotype FontExplorer X is running that mentions Updating to Linotype FontExplorer X v1.2.3 is the fix.
WoW user comments:
"Hey installed the (Leopard) graphics update 1.0 and 10.5.2 and holy crap - WoW went back to how it was before 10.5 which sucked if you're a WoW player. I am getting 60-70 fps totally smooth accross the board. Prior to 10.5.2 WoW had been like in the PowerPC days sucko. Now its back on par with PC players. Yay!!!
(for the record I asked for info on his mac model, graphics card/GPU, etc.)
17 inch Macbook pro 2.33GHz, 2GB RAM, ATI x1600 w/256MB vram.
"I just installed 10.5.2 and the graphics update. Let me just say that the graphics update isn't just little patches. It's a HUGE friggin' update to drivers!
I play WoW, and this has done incredible things. For starters, those with current MBPs with 8600s are going to see a BIG boost in framerates! I'm on a 7600GT iMac, and I've seen decent improvements as well. The big news is that I can now enable antialiasing and anisotropic filtering in WoW with only a small impact on my framerates! They used to murder your fps, but now it's actually doable! PPC machines are seeing a big boost, too, and many long-standing bugs have been fixed, according to reports. GO APPLE!
Nice to hear - sometimes when features are fixed/working there's a drop in FPS (as the GPU is actually doing more work for the eye candy) - but maybe it fixed hardware accel. where previously it was done in software (or using less optimal paths)
"PB 1.5 Ghz (motion sensor) G4, 2 GB RAM.
I installed it without incident (backed up first). It went quite fast, in spite of a 344 MB download (I used the Combo download). It is used for both PPC and Intel.
What I noticed immediately is the speed of everything scroll and menu related. Also, when selecting a folder that has previously not been visited, as in my Applications, and then to Utilities, they open instantly. I have found no conflicts in any of my regular applications. Haven't messed with a lot of the third party stuff yet. If I find any conflicts, will report back.
Note: Apple warns that there may be a "stall" in the installation barometer. It seems to come near the end, and it is there. Not an issue. After restart, some caches will be updated before shutdown, and the computer will restart once at the gray desktop, before the standard desktop appears.
Translucent MenuBar Toggle Option:
"Just curious if anyone else can't see the new MenuBar option. (New option in System Prefs > Desktop - option to enable/disable "Translucent Menu Bar"-Mike)
I'm running a heavily upgraded G4 Digital Audio with a PC flashed ATI 9200 AGP card from eBay.
I've never had a 9200 card (flashed PC model) but asked if it was shown as having "Core Image" support in Apple System Profiler's Graphics/Displays section. (For ATI cards, an RV350 or later GPU is required IIRC for Core Image hardware acceleration.) Update: he later sent a screenshot from Apple System Profiler showing his 9200 (RV280) Core Image support is shown as "Software". (An old Apple doc I had bookmarked listed (for ATI models) a 9600 or better - but see above an iBook G4 owner w/mobility 9550 said CI shows hardware accel but he does not see the toggle option either.)
"I applied 10.5.2 and the graphics update to a PowerMac G5 2x2GHz, a Powerbook 1.67GHz, a G4 Mac mini, and two 2.4 GHz Macbooks. I used the combo updater for all machines, did a force pre-binding in terminal, and all machines are have been at work for several hours without any negative effects.
(ditto here on an AL iMac, I also used combo/dl updaters-Mike) It's early, of course, but I hope this is a good sign.
Since I have ordered my Mac Pro with the NVidia video card, I hope these updates will eliminate the various problems I've been hearing on your site and elsewhere.
"I've already upgraded my MacBook and, first of all, Stacks now rocks.
I like the new Time Machine menulet, is useful because we can chose to make the backup at any time. (Right clicking on the doc TM icon also shows the "Backup Now" option - mentioned in the main news page back in January. Like some other readers, I've been leaving TM off and just using the BackUp Now option. After the 10.5.2 update, the TM menu item is turned on by default (it's now a TM prefs option.)-Mike)
Safari was not upgraded to 3.1 (for the downloadable web fonts).
I'll make some tests to see how faster Leopard became.
2008 Mac Pro owner feedback: (separating these into one section - I had hoped 10.5.2/Leopard graphics update would help with the problems some 2008 Mac Pro owners have reported in the past. So far those that had problems (graphics corruption/freezes, etc.) before said the updates didn't seem to help) - however one report today (Feb. 13th) said the restart on wake hasn't reappeared yet (previously many said a pram zap helped - some did a SMC reset also)
"Over the last day or so I've been chasing down kernel panics, this is on a new Mac Pro (2008), 2.8GHz, 6GB RAM. 10.5.2 with all the updates, video card the ATI Radeon HD2600XT stocker. I hadn't noticed a problem until I ran an iPhoto full screen slide show on my 24" Samsung monitor. Crash, and I could repeat it with Entourage, Safari, PS CS3 and iPhoto open. I yanked the added OWC 4GB RAM out, still broke, so OWC still RULES!, but then I did a Google on one of the backtrace contention terms. Bingo, found a thread at Apple where a couple days ago someone else hit the same issue. Identical log data.. He had reloaded from 10.5.1, omitting the Graphics Update 1.0, and it cured his.
Worth a shot, so I tried it. All better now. something in that Graphics Update is breaking the system. I just ran a 900 image slide show, full screen for 45 minutes, no problem.. Learned a lot about kernel panics along the way, but the real key... Google.. Saved a lot of phone time.
Report back in a week or two if you're still not seeing any problems. Some (more than a few) have had the problem since day one (before Leopard Graphics update/10.5.2) but if anyone else finds 10.5.2 w/o Graphics update helps let me know. (So far all the feedback on 10.5.2 from those that had the problem said it didn't help.) The 10.5.2 page had some notes about the Leopard Graphics update being blamed for clamshell mode issues w/MacBook Pros and DVD Player problems with some PB G4s also. (A couple readers on the 2008 Mac Pro feedback page have said running dual monitors (off same card IIRC) seems to have helped - but I wonder if anything currently does long-term.)
(2008 Mac Pro)
"The "startup after sleep" syndrome is back. Occasionally. Put the computer to sleep (usually using the command-option-open CD keys) and upon wakeup the chime chimes and the machine restarts. Sometimes. Sometimes it's normal.
Did you try the old tip (going back to almost day one) of zapping the pram? (Some did an SMC reset also, but just a pram zap was a common fix that many 2008 Mac Pro owners with the restart on wake issue noted many times on the 2008 Mac Pro feedback page.) And a 10.5.2 user (report directly below) also said he saw it reappear after 10.5.2 update, but later said a pram zap fixed it again.
It is disappointing to see it reappear though (is something corrupting the pram/nvram?).
(added 2/15/2008, from 2/14 mail)
"I got my new Mac Pro last night with the 8800 graphics Card. I am running two Samsung 24-inch displays 1200X1920. I have a PC next to the mac, and initially ran one monitor DVI from Mac and one monitor in VGA. The PC supplies the monitors the opposite signal. I do this so I can switch between them while both are running.
I upgraded to 10.5.2 and then updated the Graphics update. Right after the graphics update the VGA monitor had all sorts of noise and lines. I switched the Mac to running both on DVI, and have seen no more issues (The PC is now on VGA to both not quite as crisp either lol)
I also right out of the box, put in two Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache drives as a Stripped RAID and loaded Leopard on them as the main drive. I also put in 4Gig more ram from OWC before I even turned the Mac Pro on. I am loading Pro Apps this weekend and will let you know how it all compares to my Digital Audio G4 (upgraded to as good as I can get it) I am running MOTU 2408 with a PCI-X card that was put in prior to initial turn on too. No issues so far audio wise.
(added 2/14/2008 from Feb 12th mail (missed it due to subject line))
"Updated my 8-core Mac Pro to 10.5.2 and installed the subsequent graphics update. Put the computer to sleep overnight. The computer rebooted from wake-on-sleep this morning. And this is after 2 weeks of normal sleep operation! Go figure. Will zap the PRAM tonight and see if it helps. Two steps forward, one step back.
(he later wrote that old tip still helped.)
After resetting the PRAM, things are back to normal. No wake-on-sleep issues.
(added 2/13/2008 - updated 2/14)
"SO FAR, the machine (a standard MacPro 2008 w/6 gig RAM, has not re-started after sleep which it used to do about one start out of five.... SO FAR, SO GOOD. (had you ever tried the old tips like PRAM zap? Several mac pro owners said the fixed the restart on sleep, although maybe not a permanent fix.-Mike)
Tried it but it didn't work. Also tried unplugging the machine which resets something. (SMC)
ALSO, some Photoshop glitches (like sizes on crops) which were minor headaches, seem to have disappeared.
Ever had any graphics corruption/freezes in the past (pre-10.5.2)?)
No, but I did have Photoshop functions like cropping sizes that wouldn't work properly.
And 2 days have passed and so far all is wonderful...
"I received my Mac Pro (stock model 2 x 2.8GHz QuadCore with ATI Radeon 2600 XT) yesterday afternoon. It's hooked up to a 30" Samsung 305T display.
So far, no video issues. I immediately upgraded to 10.5.2 and applied the Leopard Graphic Update. I put the machine to sleep last night and it woke up this morning with no issues. I've tried this several times during the day and each and everytime the Mac Pro wakes up fine. I have only tested this after applying the updates. It was new out of the box shortly after 10.5.2 was available for download.
On the Mac Pro, I have a Belkin USB hub, which drives a USB headset, a Canon 4400F scanner, and my digital camera. So far, no issues to report.
I'm still waiting to install Photoshop CS3 and other major apps - will do that this weekend and report back if I run across anything anomalous.
BTW, I have an APC 1300 UPS that drives both the Mac Pro and the Samsung display, if that helps. I'm very satisfied with my computer. Keep up the great work - I've been reading your site for as long as I can remember!
"Mac Pro dual quad 2.8 std model with 10Gb RAM and 4 HDs & 2600 card (8800GT on order) - no problems with this update. No reboot on sleep, no graphical corruptions. (IIRC he didn't have these problems before the update either.-Mike) I haven't noticed any gfx-card related improvements but then again I don't play WoW.
Update went fine on my original MBP CD 2.0 machine, but the first reboot had the screen sit at a blue screen for about 3 minutes. Since then, all was well.
"I just experienced my first "freeze" on my 2008 Mac Pro since applying the 10.5.2 Combo and Graphics update, so unfortunately the issue has still not been addressed. It happened almost immediately after starting Carbon Copy Cloner which seems to almost always bring the problem on if you leave the CCC window open on screen; I'm running it now minimized to the Dock with (so far) no problems. CCC outputs a list of files and updates a progress bar when open and I think the rapidity of the text updates is what triggers the graphics freeze.
Also just wanted to mention I've applied the 10.5.2 Combo and graphics updates to a 24" Al iMac, a MacBook Air, and a 15" LED MacBook Pro as well as the 08 Pro all with no problems or issues whatsoever.
(he later wrote)
... had 2 more freezes in quick succession after writing you. First was trying to run the new version of Drive Genius defragment; as usual it was just the screen that froze and I let the job continue until I could no longer hear any hard disk activity, hit the silver button, and the defrag had indeed run and finished - go figure. Then almost immediately after that it froze again on loading Safari.
But I did note something maybe probative: I have a digital thermometer on my desk right above the Mac Pro; today I had shut off the A/C and opened the windows but it got hot and stuffy towards the end of the day. In any event when this series of freezes happened the temp reading was 80.6 degrees with probably 80% humidity; I turned the A/C back on and now the reading is 77.0, more normal, and I haven't had another freeze since. So temperature could certainly be an issue; as I understand the firmware update for the Al iMacs all Apple (or ATI) did was de-tune the card with lower core/memory speeds to lower its operating temp. That's what I've heard, anyway. (I doubt that less than 4°F ambient temperature difference (still well under the operating specs) matters. The (supposedly tested/qualified at) Enviromental operating temp specs at apple shows "Operating temperature: 50° to 95°F (10° to 35° C)" (Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing). less than 4 degrees F should not have any impact whatsoever in my opinion. (Some components have operating max ratings well over 100°C - even the AMB chip on the FBdimms run reliably (no ECC errors) at over 84°C (in some stress tests 90°C+). (I remember on an old Homebrew PC I have with 6800 AGP card Nvidia's control panel (w/coolbits enabled) showed the -throttle down- GPU temp threshold at 120°C - although I never saw higher than around 90C...) BTW - the (freeware) Temperature Monitor utility will report on internal temperatures. v4.4 was just released today w/support for new Mac Pros and MacBook Air.-Mike)
Trying out the new Apple TV update - the latest DIE HARD is downloading in HD as I type. Notice we now have full 1080P resolution... but PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN, which I rented 2 weeks ago, still will not stream from my MacBook Pro to the AppleTV; looks like I get to pay Apple twice to watch it on the big screen.
I've not updated my G5 tower yet, but did apply 10.5.2 (combo) and Leopard graphics update last night on the AL iMac - no problems seen so far. I really hoped they would help those that had seen problems with their 2008 Mac Pros in the past... but so far everyone that's written has said it didn't help.
"Hi Mike, I wrote you on 1/25/2008 for the freeze and video corruption, (ref: 2008 Mac Pro reports page)
The 10.5.2 update (plus Leopard Graphics Update 1.0) didn't fix problems on my new Mac Pro 2008 (dual 2.8 with Ati 2600XT). What do you think about a petition for all the owners like me that waited for the update without luck?
So far 2008 Mac Pro owner w/problems like this said the updates helped. Petitions usually don't work but it can't hurt. (As I said from day one also - every 2008 Mac Pro owner with these problems should report it to Apple support also... the more that do the higher this issue may get on their radar, but I'd really hoped these updates would help.)
"I am an owner of a 2008 Mac Pro, 8-core 2.8GHz, ATI 2600 graphics with the restart on wake issue, clean install on a new seagate 1TB, 8GB RAM additional for a total of 10 ordered from transintl. Here is the saga... this is the third machine... first two were replaced/exchanged by my local Apple store... all have had the issue. First two were similar in build date, 2nd week of Jan, 1st week of Jan... the machine I have now is 4th week of Jan
I am investigating if the use of safe sleep mode eliminates the issue, makes it less common or what... and I will update you.
The current recommendation from Apple tech support seems to be... let the cpus stay awake...until engineering comes up with a solution, engineers are working on the issue and consider it high priority...It would be interesting to note the build date and processor speed of affected machines, also if any 8800 equipped machines are affected, at this point 8800s are far less common so this info might not be all that useful. (The first 8800 GT owner last friday here said he'd seen no issues so far and not all 2600XT owners did - although many have. Theories about HD brand, etc. didn't pan out - there's been reports from everything from single CPU to the highest end models with the problem - although again not everyone. The most common factor so far seems to be the 2600 ATI card (the 8800GT owner noted a later OS X 10.5.1 build also)-Mike)
Bad news re: 10.5.2 and the leopard graphics update...
(applied the combo update, repaired permissions, (permissions repair seemed to find nothing, (show details was checked)) (force prebinding is more potentially useful than RP IMHO, although nobody so far has said these updates fixed the 2008 Mac pro issues for those that had them previously)
If anything the restart on wake issue is worse in that it seems to happen more consistently. Also there is slight graphic corruption that was not present before, as I type into spotlight, the resulting menu that has dropped down goes transparent as it updates, so the desktop is seen underneath, netting a sort of flickering effect... thanks so much for your site over the years... I have been a reader for many years
"I've installed the 10.5.2 and the graphics update and my Mac Pro with an Ati 2600 card and it just did it again - it freezes.
The colored lines and most of the wrong pixels are gone it just stops responding (makes you think wtf) and you can still move the mouse. There are some small pixel errors arround the mouse pointer.
Apple did not fix this BIG problem in the updates... :(
I installed the combo update.
Best regards, Sebastian"
Notes from Lightwave 3D v9.3 user:
"Just to let you know that the update certainly fixed an issue I had with Lightwave 3D 9.3 (UB) on my new Mac Pro. I used to have an issue with the Modeler not redrawing the current layer properly if shown with a background layer (only showed the points, not the polygons). The workaround I had used was to turn on 'simple points' which solved the issue, but after the update I can see everything fine without the workaround.
By the way, I installed the update on my Mac Pro and Mac Mini via the Software Update function - both of which now throw up the "ACL found but not expected on 'Applications', 'Applications/Utilities' and 'Library'" when repairing permissions. (A verify permissions (not repair) check on my AL imac after applying the updates from the download Combo 10.5.2 updater and Leopard graphics update showed no permissions related messages - a first here... Those ACL related messages are deja-vu - many posts on that here back in early Nov 2007 and on the original OS X Leopard page here.-Mike)
I know these aren't deemed to be serious, but I downloaded the combo update from the Apple site and ran that on my MacBook instead. The result? Disk Utility didn't find any problems! (ditto - and I hate to keep repeating myself but I always prefer to use the download updaters and especially "Combo" updaters for OS X updates when available. Reapplying combo updates is an old tip also over the years-Mike)
I did have to reconfigure all my sound preferences again on the Mac Pro after the update (speaker output for OS effects and general output to Line Out, along with LR balance)
Just be interested to see if the infamous Mac Pro 'restart instead of wake' issue is fixed ;o)
Mac Pro 2.8GHz Xeon Quad, ATI 2600 XT, 10GB Ram, 10.5.2 (Build 9C31), 150GB WD Raptor + stock WD 320GB"
Not per feedback so far from those that mentioned it.
"Not specifically about the graphics issue, but 10.5.2 doesn't cure the reboot-from-sleep issue on my dual quad core early 2008 2.8 GHz Mac Pro.
"Hi Mike, some tests already done.
System MacPro 8-Core 3.2 GHz. Stock config. 2 GB RAM.
Run tests with Cinebench 10.0 and XBench 1.3. Before and after 10.5.2 + Graphics Update. Attached the results.
(He attached Xbench results files but not had time to look at them yet. I mentioned a WoW user (non-mac pro) said the graphics update helped.-Mike) Yes, the graphics update is awesome (i was wondering because XBench didnt reflect the subjective feeling in numbers). (Xbench's OpenGL test is not a good graphics card benchmark - it's just a simple spinning squares test. Even Cinbench R10 doesn't heavily tax the graphics card (per their own comments) but it's still better than Xbench IMHO. Modern 3D games typically are the most stressful on graphics cards (and systems in general actually))
The whole interface is snappier, you instantly fly though full side spreads in XPres 7.31 on a 30 in display...
(2008 Mac Pro owner w/ATI 2600 card)
"This is starting to be a serious pain...
10.5.2 is no fix for the wake from sleep problem. I downloaded the combo updater. Strangely enough, on restart, the machine rebooted twice. On wke from sleep I got a more or less frozen machine with the mouse still moving but unable to do anything, spinning beachball, as it had been acting before, rquiring a hard restart.
Next I installed the graphics update and voila, on wake from sleep the machine does a restart again now. Don't know what to try next, maybe a clean install, but I doubt it is worth the trouble, I get the feeling that this will require a firmwar update.
"8-core Mac Pro 2.8 with 2GB RAM, ATI Radeon HD 2600, 24" monitor @ 1920x1200, and 3 x 320GB WD3200AAJS HDs, no UPS.
Updated to 10.5.2 and Leopard Graphics Update and no problems so far: I am one of the fortunate ones who never experienced any out of the box problems with the 2008 Mac Pro and since the 10.5.2 update the Mac is definitely snappier and smoother.
I am now going to update the Macbook C2D from Tiger to Leopard.
"I own a 2008 Mac Pro with the ATI 2600 Graphics card. Since day one I've had just about all the problems you list on your Mac Pro page. Still do. Lots of lock-ups every day, some just the computer stopping functioning when doing something simple like scrolling in Safari, other times there are extreme digital artifacts that accompany the lock-up. Did a clean install, PRAM and SMC reset: no help. (Pram resets, etc. were said by some owners to fix the restart on wake from sleep issue many saw - but the Graphics corruption/freezes were another issue)
I applied the 10.5.2 and the Leopard Graphics Update this afternoon: the computer still locks up from time to time. First start-up there were digital artifacts appearing on the screen, minor ones but no lock-up. After a few minutes the computer locked-up cold. It's happened twice since. Won't know if the restart on wake from sleep is fixed for a few days as that sometimes worked properly since removing my 30 inch ACD from my 1500 VA UPS. The extreme artifacts I'll also have to wait a day or so as that happens only once every few days.
"I installed 10.5.2, and the Graphics Update after it on my 2008 Mac Pro. Not 5 minutes after, I got the same sort of graphical corruption crash as always. I'm the one who reported the crashes-in-Boot-Camp issue as well with the Radeon 2600XT, so it's either a hardware thing, or firmware thing I'm betting.
(2008 Mac Pro owner)
"I had an install error using software update....something about the zip file.....so I downloaded the Combo which in turn gave me an invalid checksum error when mounting the disk image. I will try again with one or both and let you know...(he later wrote)
Re-downloaded the Combo Updater...this time wont mount due to a "codec overun " error...I am re-downloading this on my MacBook to see if I can mount it there...
(I asked if he'd checked his system/HD for errors)
I was beginning to think so myself so I ran Disk Warrior...I have a separate Emergency partition on another internal drive....which was unable to rebuild the directory as it stated it was too severely damaged. I also ran Disk Utilities and Disk Rescue as well which did not find any problems...???? I am awaiting delivery of a new 500GB hard drive which I was going to put in a spare external case that I have but I have decided to put that in the MacPro...which will take storage to 2TB....and to re-install Leopard on that drive. I'll let you know the outcome of that.
I didn't see that problem here on the download updaters (I always use download versions - downloaded the (300MB+) Combo updater and Leopard Graphics update. Both passed checksum/verify and installed OK here on Al iMac)
If you find any pros or cons with 10.5.2, let me know the details (include mac model, info on any addons/upgrades, etc.) Remember as with any OS X version update, check your 3rd party addons/login items, etc. first for any updates or developer notes on 10.5.2 compatibility. If you see a problem include the version of any 3rd party software addons you're using. Thanks.