(Note: as of Jan 15th the Apple 8800 Kit page now says "PCI Express 2.0 Mac Pro required" - what follows was the original post/debate from Jan 10th. Also there's now an Online Petition for an 8800GT for pre-2008 Mac Pros)
The Apple store lists the 8800 GT card kit for $349, with a 5-7 week est. delivery time, not surprising as systems with that option are 3-5 weeks. (BTW - A UK reader sent a screenshot of the card kit page showing "8 Days" there.) The link I posted to the Apple store NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT Graphics Upgrade Kit for Mac Pro expired, so just search the Apple store for "Nvidia 8800 GT" to find the item.
A popular question is if these PCI Express 2.0 cards work in previous Mac Pros. Apple's page didn't specifically mention backward compatibility (it does now), but if any pre-2008 Mac Pro owner tries one let me know. (I've not called Apple sales to ask if the card is backward compatible, although the typical sales person may not know for sure and just state a 2008 Mac Pro is required.)
A reader replied he was told the 8800GT isn't compatible with previous Mac Pros (but see another reply below with comments that a different Apple "expert" said it was):
"Hey Mike, I received a nice call from Travis from Apple today informing me that the new 8800GT card is NOT compatible with the older Mac Pros, only the new model. He offered to cancel the order for me.
(Another concern is the 8800's EFI64 rom vs EFI32 used w/previous Mac Pro cards - Alistair wrote the original source of that info was Blizzard, who said they were told by Apple for that reason the 8800GT wouldn't work in a pre-2008 Mac Pro. But it gets better/more confusing - there's even rumors post Sept. 2007 Mac Pros used EFI64 and that (PCIe 2.0) ATI 2600XT works in older Mac Pros.-Mike)
Incidentally, I picked up a new 2.8 Ghz 8-core model (I plan to sell my 8-core older Clovertown model and pocket the difference). I put in my drive from my Clovertown MP and my Time Machine stopped working, and Second Life crashes every time.
I know there's a newer build that came with the machine, I may install that or just wait for 10.5.2 which I know is imminent.
I purchased 8GB of 800MHz RAM from OWC; it is supposed to ship tomorrow so we'll see how it goes. The only other thing to note is the new unit is significantly quieter than the old.
Speed wise, it is hard to tell because I only have 2GB at the moment, but it seems identical to the 3.0GHz Clovertown. The graphics are slower however, with the stock 2600 XT card vs my old X1900. I will of course keep the 8800GT on order and update you when it comes in.
I have run the computer for a while last night - a few hours, and had no lockups.
-P"
This later mail from another reader said he was told by an Apple "expert" that the 8800GT -was- compatible with previous Mac Pros. (Again I think an actual test is needed to prove this.)
(1/10/2008 8PM)
"Hi Mike, this is my first time writing but have loved your site for the past couple years. I too have Mac Pro and was interested in the new NVidia 8800 card. I did an online chat with Cassandre C via the Apple store and this is how it went. (Apple rep. comments in red)
You are chatting with Cassandre C, an Apple Expert
my name is Cassandre C. Welcome to Apple!
How may I help you today?
is the NVidia 8800 card compatible with the previous mac pro?
I'm happy to assist with that.
One moment while I research that for you.
Thank you for your patience.
Yes, it is compatible with the previous generation Mac Pro.
excellent. Thank you very much.
That was all I needed.
You're welcome.
Thank you for visiting the Apple Store. We appreciate your business.
If you would like more help, please chat with us again.
Don't know if this helps much, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
-Paul D.
"
BTW - Although I still think an actual test would be better proof, Apple recently updated a previous doc that was originally posted when the Mac Pro first shipped (to note PCIe video cards from G5 PowerMacs were not Mac Pro compatible - the Mac Pro used EFI based cards). Here's the Apple doc (updated Jan 8th, 2008) Mac Pro: Video cards from Power Mac G5 computers are not supported which has been updated to include the Early 2008 Mac Pro cards and has a note "All of these cards are only compatible with the family of computers with which they shipped." Of course Apple 'requirements' comments are not always 100% correct (for example the 802.11n MiniPCIe cards, some Pro Apps 'requirements', etc....) but maybe someone getting a new 8800GT card has access to a previous Mac Pro model to test. (As they say "one experiment is worth a thousand theories".)
8800 card drivers would also be needed for previous systems (even my old Mac 6800 Ultra card Kernel Panics at boot if used with an older OS X version w/o drivers for it). Retail 10.5 includes GeForce 8600 drivers (8600M used in later Macbook Pros), but will it also work with the 8800. Hopefully an OS X 10.5.2 (Combo) update would include them.
Although I can't suggest a pre-2008 Mac Pro owner take a $349 risk, if anyone actually tries one of the 8800GT cards in a previous Mac Pro let me know.
PCI Express 2.0 cards (by design spec) are supposed to be backwards compatible with PCI Express 1.0 slots (of course downclocking to PCIe 1.0 speeds) although there have been some (rare overall) reports of PCIe 1.0 motherboard PCs not booting with a PCIe 2.0 card installed. (There's debate on who to blame - the card mfr or the motherboard, but overall this is rare I think.) I'd like to think the Apple spec'd 8800 GT is a std design with backward compatibility, increasing card kit sales instead of just a carrot to entice a new system purchase.
Although it's not been updated recently, here's a link to the PCI SIG FAQ on PCI Express 2.0 item on the subject:
"
Q5: Then PCIe 2.0 must be backward compatible with PCIe 1.1 and 1.0?
Yes. The PCIe Base 2.0 specification supports both the 2.5GT/s and 5GT/s signaling technologies. A device designed to the PCIe Base 2.0 specification may support 2.5GT/s, 5GT/s or both.
However, a device designed to operate specifically at 5GT/s must also support 2.5GT/s signaling..."
Maybe someone getting a new system w/8800 GT has access to a previous model to test to settle this question. (Once the Mac 8800 GT cards ship, I wonder how long it will be before you see flashed PC models showing up at fleabay...)
BTW - I moved the very long post w/2008 Mac Pro user feedback in yesterday's news to a separate page and added a note from Jamie this morning that his 2008 Mac Pro ran overnight without a repeat of the system freezes he saw twice before disabling Energy Saver sleep. (The other reader that commented yesterday on his 2008 Mac Pro however has seen at least 4 system freezes so far.)
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