News Archive for: Sunday Nov. 4, 2007
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Suggestions for a Better Leopard Installation
(from a reader mail - suggestions after he did a wipe of his first install)
" Subject: A Better Leopard Installation
The initial installation of Leopard went smooth enough, but almost everything observed by others was present here as well. And, what at first seemed to run OK, upon usage there were too many rough edges that needed smoothing out. A subsequent reinstallation of Leopard, and a few adjustments, the "SUID... ARD" is the only message I get, and Leopard really roars now.

First, you need a complete, verified, bootable back up of your strongest Tiger on an external Fire wire disk or other storage that you can clone back to your selected drive.

In my case, a full back up was made with Carbon Copy Cloner 2.3 to an external OWC FW drive. After cloning back Tiger to my erased MacBook C2D with CCC, running Disk Warrior 4 from the CD and a Verify Disk and Repair Permissions in Disk Utility locally from Applications/Utilities, it was time to reinstall Leopard.

Upon launch of the Leopard installer you will want to Archive and Install, save your Settings and do a full default installation.
When the installation is finished and the computer restarts, Set Up will run, and if connected to the internet, you will get the message that Software Update has downloads (3). Proceed with the Software Update installation, and restart.

Log into Leopard, go to System Preferences, select Accounts and verify you are shown as the Administrator, and verify the œallow this user to administer this computer box” is checked. This is very important. If you are Administrator, good.

Launch email. I chose Email as opposed to Safari strictly because I have multiple accounts and would get more keychain prompts, one for each email account (Comcast, .Mac, etc), as opposed to one with Safari. At this point, you will be asked to enter your password, enter it, check store to save to keychain. You will then be told it can't find keychain œyourname”. You are asked whether to cancel or Reset to Default. Press Reset, enter your login password, it will then tell you all keychain access will be reset to your default login password, click ok, and now you're finished.

Quit any open applications, restart, login, open Disk Utility, Verify the Disk and then Repair Disk Permissions. These will take quite a while, but the only message you receive in Permissions is the SUID message. Pay no attention to this. (for detailed explanation, see 10.5. page here) All is well. Launch Mail and Safari, and you should see no prompts. You can also recheck you are still Admin just to verify, but you should be.

The side benefit to this clone back to reinstall is a complete defragmentation of your HD in the process, which will give a nice additional quickness to an already fast Leopard. Enjoy!
-Matthew C.
(Core2 Duo MacBook)
P.S. If you have Disk Warrior 4 you can safely run it from the CD ONLY. Mine showed 454,000 files, 27% that it corrected. "

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DoubleCommand (v1.6.3) addon Causing Shutdown/Startup Problems in Leopard
(Updated w/later report below)
This reader had initially replied the updated RocketRAID 222x driver mentioned in the Nov. 1st news had fixed his G5 tower/10.5 array problem but later wrote he could not shut down the system. I asked he check for the system logs for any info on culprits and check for any 3rd party addons (including checking system prefs/accts/login startup items - often forgotten over time) - he replied:

" I viewed the crash log closely. I had forgotten that I'd installed DoubleCommand once THAT was the culprit. (what version?-Mike) Doublecommand v. 1.6.3

Only issue left is inability to make a raid with attached firewire drives. I believe it works with the SATA drives. I think this is a RocketRaid issue, but I'll keep at it.

Thanks for your site; that's where I first saw the post about the updated (but still labelled as same 'version' number) driver.
-Paul "

A Mac Pro owner wrote he saw startup Problems with it:

" Mike, I saw the report about DoubleCommand and G5s. In case no one else reported this. DoubleCommand (v1.6.3?) will cause Leopard to crash during restarts on a Mac Pro after an Archive and Install over Tiger. The shutdown process seems OK but no start up chime occurs and the computer just sits there.
Turning off the computer and back on yielded a crash report which identified DoubleCommand as the cause of OS X crashing. Removal eliminated the problem.
-Welles G."
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Resetting Password/Home Directory ACLs/Permissions from 10.5 DVD
Based on a reader mail that was also sent to the author of Mac Pilot who then echo'd it back as a "100% fix" (if there is such a thing...) - posting here for those that may not spot it in the never-ending updated threads below, which many of you have already read earlier today. As always if you're not having problems leave well enough alone - I'm back to running OK again in 10.5 on my G5 tower after the ACL wipe fiasco from last night and repeated repairs using DU - so I'm not changing anything at this point.

  • Boot Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard disc.
  • Choose Reset Password from the Utility menu.
  • Select the disk and user you wish to modify.
  • Click the "Reset" button next to "Reset Home Directory Permissions and ACLs"
  • When complete, reboot your system normally.

Note: This does not really seem to change the "ACL found but not expected" messages if you've seen those before, but is supposed to reset ACLs if you erased them in Mac Pilot for instance. (The original source of the above and another reader said they're still seeing the "ACL Found but not Expected" messages - which some did before messing with Mac Pilot - although I've never seen that message on my PPC 10.5 install/upgrade over a cloned 10.4.10 drive.)

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Another thread on Leopard Ownership/Permissions Problems
Here's a mail today about Leopard Ownership/Permissions problems and concerns over running Disk Utility from the Boot 10.5 DVD installer disc from someone that saw problems earlier this week:

"Subject: Regarding the ACL issue and repairing permissions.
Hi, Mike, ....I have been bitten by this bigtime. I thought I should respond to your "I'm also thinking of running repairs on the disk after booting from the Leopard DVD's Disk Utility (in Utilities menu)."
From my research this appears to be a mistake. I have read that running DU from a startup drive other than that being repaired is dangerous. Do you know anything about that? As it happens, my ACL problems occurred immediately AFTER doing what you describe here. (No connection: I did this days before your (Mac Pilot ACL wipe) post).
You can read about my ACL problems here: (Apple forum thread posted Nov. 1st)
Serious trouble with permissions and ownership
All the best....
John E "

After the ACL wipe/"ACL Missing" fiasco last night on my G5 - I already ran RP from Disk Utility from the Boot DVD, but after I had repeatedly run repair permissions from the Leopard boot hard drive and cleared all the "Missing ACL" errors (from Mac Pilot's ACL wipe). I've not seen any issues so far (but chained to email on my PB G4 on the whole ACL/permissions mess...) but I have ran Repair Permissions -again- after rebooting from the Leopard hard drive - the only message I see in repair permissions now on my PPC (G5 Tower) Leopard install is the (not a concern) ARDAgent one - but I never saw the "ACL found but not expected" message before (and don't own SuperDuper! which Dick said refused to backup his 10.5 drive due to ACL issues before the "fix" that started the massive thread on the subject below...)
FYI - As I mentioned several times in the last week - I did a clone of my 10.4.10 boot drive to a new drive, then upgraded 10.5 over it (not an Archive and Install or clean install) - and until last night I had seen no ACL issues in DU (but do not own SuperDuper! to know if it would have refused (citing ACL issues) to clone my 10.5 drive) - BTW - I wrote the reader that used MP's ACL wipe that said SuperDuper! then allowed a bootable clone (which he booted from) to check the SD clone - as a reader just wrote that Retrospect showed thousands of files missing from his SD backup - personally at this point I'd avoid using any 3rd party utilities on Leopard drives. 10.5 is a major update and every "dot zero" release always has problems especially with 3rd party software.
And to recap past info/posts here in the last week - unlike some users my login was set to Admin rights although even after the Keychain/Login update 1.0 I still had some keychain errors - which seem ok after following the tips in this Apple doc on keychain problems in Leopard.

Here's a new mail from the the guy that originally sent the note about SD problems being fixed by MacPilot's wipe ACL (although SD s author has said SuperDuper 2.1.4 is not compatible with Leopard) - he now suggests not using SuperDuper! until they officially post an update for 10.5:

"Mike, The user that stated "So you users should not be using SD at all as yet" is correct. If you go to the SuperDuper web page, they acknowledge there is a problem with the current version of SuperDuper and OSX 10.5, and a new version has been prepared but they are holding off release until it is fully tested.

One of the first applications I tried after installing Leopard (and before the noting the above announcement) was SuperDuper. It quit with RED note saying it failed to copy ACL's. This was when I first tried run the Disk Utility to Repair Disk Permissions and it came back with all kinds of "ACL found but not expected on..." errors. At that time the Disk Utility could not repair the Access Control List errors.
Once I cleared the ACL errors (using the Mac Pilot utility) and the OSX Disk Utility said my permissions were repaired, the current version of SuperDuper did its thing and I was able to boot from the cloned Leopard SuperDuper backup drive. Since then I have used SD several times and works perfect.

My advice to users is to wait on Apple to correct the ACL and/or the next release of SuperDuper. If they can repair permissions using the the 10.5 Disk Utility with no ACL errors, try using the current SuperDuper. If they get ACL errors when they try to repair the permission, they should not try to use the current SuperDuper. It will quit as I described above. BTW, the quit was just a failure to create a boot drive on closure. The files were copied to the external drive. Again, once I cleared the Mac OSX 10. 5 ACL errors, the current SuperDuper worked and I could boot from the cloned drive. At this stage of the ACL issue I am thankful for any backup.
Like many others I look forward to the Leopard version of SuperDuper. Until the new version is released I will use what I have because it works and some backup is better than no backup. Apple has not even acknowledged the ACL issue so it may take some time.
Mine is working great thanks to the Mac Pilot. Yes, I have read the caution but I got tired of the errors and zero support from Apple.
-Dick

He didn't comment on the mail I sent regarding another SD user saying per Retrospect check, his SD backup was incomplete (missing files).

BTW - See below for more updates on the ACL, Mac Pilot, etc, problems ... APOLOGIES to readers that could care less about Leopard and have written about other topics, tips, etc... 10.5 problems have saturated my time in the last week - I'm personally still using it fine on the G5 here, but I have thousands of mails from those that are not so fortunate...

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More Info on Leopard ACL/Permissions Issues (Don't Wipe ACL Data, what to do if you did)
(updated several times Sunday) Here's a copy of a reader mail with another tip/fix/suggestion - I know you're as sick of this topic as I am (I wish APPLE would post something OFFICIAL on their website - they know this has been a problem for some) - although knock on wood I've been running 10.5 all day today OK (Photoshop, iTunes, Pshop CS, EyeTV 2.5.1, etc.) without any problems after the -repeated- permissions repairs to fix the "ACL Missing" errors after Mac Pilot's ACL Wipe. - I had not seen problems before but made the mistake of messing with what wasn't broken last night...

" Hi Mike, I may have found a solution to the ACL errors...
I re-installed leopard as an upgrade and nothing changed, so I re-installed again... and this time I got the Admin log-in problem... account reverted to standard... (an issue noted last week - but I never saw this, but always something to check 1st thing after a 10.5 install - to see if your admin login actually has Admin rights in System Prefs/Accts-Mike)
So I restarted from my Leopard DVD and reset my password and added a root one...then I noticed at the bottom of the dialogue box and option for resetting ACLs on these accounts...so I did. Rebooted and ran Disk Utility and got two"errors" concerning unexpected ACLs... (So it did not change that - but corrected the "Missing ACLs" if you did a "Wipe" (erase) of them in Mac Pilot.-Mike) so I think it's sorted out...
-Stewart
PS. I also e-mailed the developer (of MAC PILOT, after doing the ACL wipe/erase and getting Missing ACL errors in Repair Permissions) and was advised to run DU twice... (That was the Tip I posted here earlier - repeated runs of RP had fixed the many "ACL Missing" errors after Mac Pilot's "Wipe ACL"...-Mike) which I had, more than twice actually so I am sending them a copy of this as well."

(what follows is the previous posts here from earlier today)

After adding comments this morning from developer Marcel Bresink about -not- wiping ACL data, I had written the author of Mac Pilot for his answer to the concerns and warnings that were brought up by Marcel.

(updated again...)
"(new email - based on the reader mail above) Subject: 100% Fix
  • Startup the computer from the Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard disc.
  • Choose Reset Password from the Utility menu.
  • Select the disk and user you wish to modify.
  • Click the "Reset" button next to "Reset Home Directory Permissions and ACLs"
  • When complete, reboot your system normally.

    (Note - as the reader mentioned above this didn't change the "ACL found but not expected" messages - but I assume fixed his "Missing ACLs" after using Mac Pilot's Wipe ACL-Mike) (his reply to Marcel's warnings below to NOT use the Wipe ACL data option in Mac Pilot)
    Hi, Sure thing. Here you go:
    During some installations of Leopard, notably Upgrade installs, ACL permissions are sometimes enabled on directories and files which should * not * have them. In fact, the only ACL-enabled files in your home Directory should be the ones existing in the user template. (ie. Movies, Music, Sites, Library, Documents).

    During my personal installation, ACLs (Access Control Lists) were enabled on every single file in my home folder, instead of just these top-level template folders. They were on my personal documents, a custom "Documents (Personal)" folder I had made which existed within my Home folder on Tiger, on preferences files, on caches, you name it! This is incorrect behavior which can even lead to instabilities as programs may not be able to write to the directories they need.

    Removing ACL from these is not a security risk. Maintaining the ACL on the very top level of your home directory is sufficient to maintain operating system security. This feature was never intended to be run on an entire drive, and is not meant as a "Fix ACL Permissions" option, but as it states, "Clear." ACLs are important for security when it comes to system files, and should not be run on your entire hard drive - as noted in the most recent version of Mac Pilot. (Note: although ACL wipe was added in the versions prior to 2.3.8 (and 2.3.7), there was no info/help file info, or limits put on the code to prevent running it on the root of the drive. The new 2.3.8 version has a note in the dialog box for this feature that was not present in previous versions when selecting the ACL wipe feature.-Mike) Please ensure you research ACLs before clearing them on directories of which you are unsure.

    For users who have used the Clear ACL in error, there have been reports that running Disk Utility's "Repair Permissions" a few times will restore the correct ACL settings to system files. (I mentioned that this morning in posts below after seeing "ACL missing" errors after the Wipe ACL option was used in Mac Pilot. This cleared those error messages for me and some other readers that did the same thing.-Mike)
    In the future, Mac Pilot may include a "Repair ACL..." feature which will clear ACL settings on incorrect files, and configure them properly on the folders they need to be. However, until then, please use the Clear ACL option at your own, cautious, discretion. To view current ACL settings before wiping, use the "ls -le" option in Terminal.app.

    (Here's his reply to my comments that the code for ACL wipe should have been limited (and more info/warnings in the app/help, etc.), after he had said in a previous mail (and in the 2.3.8 release) "I've added that it should only be run on a home folder, and DEFINITELY not for your entire hard drive." -Mike)
    I would limit it, however, I feel it important to keep the option open to all files incorrect ACL settings * can * exist outside of a user's home folder. I've added the warning, and hopefully users will be more cautious before jumping the gun without fully understanding the complexities of a feature in the future :)
    Regards, Josh
    Koingo Software
    http://www.koingosw.com"

  • (Earlier posts follow)
    The author of Mac OS X Utilities (including Hardware Monitor/Temperature Monitor, etc.) wrote Using the Wipe ACL Data feature of Mac Pilot is NOT something you should do (despite earlier reports or the author's inclusion of the feature) " Hello Mike, I saw the post about the so-called "ACL issue" (Access Control Lists) in Leopard. I have to say that the suggested procedure is not a fix but exactly the opposite. It will remove a security feature Apple has setup in Leopard.

    The message "ACL found, but not expected" does *not* indicate an error. It just says that additional security settings have been established for the central Applications and Library folders after the first install phase of the operating system was completed. Those settings are intended by Apple and they make sure that users accessing the system volume via the file sharing feature of Leopard cannot intentionally or unintentionally remove components from those folders. When you remove those ACLs, you are destroying this security feature.

    An additional problem is that "Repair permissions" currently cannot re-establish those settings after they have been removed. So you end up with an installation that has broken permission settings which can only be repaired manually.

    (I wrote Marcel to ask if he could explain "repair manually" - after repeated Repairs in Disk Utility I no longer see the "ACL Missing" errors that appeared after Mac Pilot's ACL wipe. Are you saying that Apple's own permissions repair/check can't be believed? (it complained on missing ACLs after the wipe - but repeated repair runs now shows no ACL errors)-Mike)
    Hello Mike, thanks for your follow-up.
    This all depends on how the ACLs have been removed. It is possible

      a) to disable all ACLs,
      b) to remove all ACEs from all ACLs, or
      c) to remove all ACLs.

    Although this all basically results in the same (unintended) ACL settings, the Repair Permission utility appears to behave differently depending on how ACLs have been manipulated. In case (c), Disk Utility can indeed successfully restore the previous ACL settings for Apple's files in case they have been wiped. I need more time to analyze what will happen with the Repair feature if the ACLs are no longer available.
    Best regards,
    Marcel Bresink
    http://www.bresink.de/ "

    (BTW - he also commented on the "ARDAgent has been modified" typical message in RP - saying it's not an issue. I'll add his comments on that to the 10.5 page here later but want to keep this already long post focused on ACLs.) Several readers with 10.5 have said that SuperDuper! failed to clone their leopard drive with it citing ACL issues (and then also saw the ACL messages in Disk Utility RP) - a reader said the ACL wipe fixed that problem - he made a bootable clone and booted from it despite the fact the Author notes SuperDuper 2.1.4 is not compatible with Leopard. (BTW - a reader warned against using SuperDuper's current version in 10.5 - saying Retrospect showed thousands of files that were not on the SD clone. I sent Dick a copy of his mail on this.)
    I immediately forwarded Marcel's comments to Josh, the Author of Mac Pilot (who has now updated Mac Pilot to v2.3.8 with a note in the feature dialog about not using the ACL wipe on directories outside your home folder).
    Earlier posts follow - but personally I'd not suggest doing this after what I've seen on my PPC Mac, although the reader that sent the tip originally still swears by it after it solved his SuperDuper! backup/clone problems. (I made the mistake I guess of trusting the developer of the utility and that a couple users had done this before me - Apple's permissions check shows no ACL problems now but I'm not sure what to believe anymore.)
    For those that have already ran Mac Pilot's ACL wipe and see "Missing ACL" errors in Disk Utility (like I did) - try repeatedly running Repair Permissions from Disk utility - that cleared the 'missing ACL' errors I had after Mac Pilot's Wipe ACL, but from Marcel's comments I'm not sure that means anything - however Apple's permissions check complaints are gone after repeated repairs. You'd think you could trust Apple's own utility check - but at this point I don't know who to believe.
    BTW - After seeing no more ACL messages in DU I then booted from the 10.5 DVD and ran Disk Utility Repair Permissions (from the DVD's Utilities menu on the boot DVD) - it also shows no ACL errors anymore, just the usual message on ARDAgent that I've had since day one in 10.5 - but see above for a later mail on running DU from the 10.5 DVD causing problems (not related to Mac Pilot use). (I sent a note on that to a reader that also did the ACL wipe and he said repeated repairs cleared the ACL Missing error messages also. )
    A mail Saturday from reader that had previously written about the ACL (Access Control Lists)/Permissions issues in Leopard follows, but again I'd not suggest doing this.

    " Mike, There is a Fix for the Repair Permissions/ACL errors problem! (Trying to clone iMac drive to a backup FW drive using SuperDuper failed due to ACL Access Control List errors.) The Friday, 11/2/07 11:56 PM www.xlr8yourmac.com update (Software updates section) listed a utility called Mac Pilot 2.3.7. Another user sent me a note that he used Mac Pilot and it cleared his ACL errors.
    I download Mac Pilot and went to the "Tools" icon in the menu bar, selected the "Disk & Files" and then clicked on the button that says "Wipe Access Control List Data." Mac Pilot did its thing for what seemed like forever but it worked
    (FYI - There was no info in the Mac Pilot 2.3.7 (or its Help) on usage - the author later wrote with notes to NOT select the entire HD - he's released v2.3.8 now with a message on that. However see the comments above from the Author of Hardware monitor/Temperature Monitor that this is NOT something you should do. -Mike)

    As a test I ran the Disk Utility/Verify Disk Permissions and received the "Permissions verification complete" message with no errors.
    The ACL issue is a pretty common problem and the utility fixes it. I only used MacPilot to clear the ALCs - It worked perfect.
    (I asked if SuperDuper! would now clone his Leopard drive without the ACL errors it was showing previously)
    It works perfect now the Leopard Droppings are clear. I did a SD backup last night and tested it by booting from the drive. The people at SD have a new 10.5 version but it is not ready for release. Clear the ACL's and the current SD seems to work fine
    -Dick"

    On my Upgraded G5 Tower I never saw the "ACL found, but not expected" errors that many have, although I did have some permissions corrections. (See my DU permissions check results listing in Wednesday's news, below Dick's original post on the ACL/Permissions problem .)
    Update - Normally I'm leery about using 3rd party utils with a 'dot zero' major release and wrote the author of Mac Pilot about the tip posted above earlier today - he replied the feature was added after he'd also been bitten by it:

    " Thanks for the inclusion! I actually wound up adding that feature as I was one of the ACL victims :)... (I had written about the time to complete and no info on the feature in v2.3.7's Help, etc. later wrote)
    Thanks, I'll be sure to add that warning . (v2.3.8 out now). I've added that it should only be run on a home folder, and DEFINITELY not for your entire hard drive.
    Cheers, Josh
    Koingo Software
    http://www.koingosw.com"

    Even though I never saw the 'ACL found by not expected' in 10.5 on my G5, I decided to try the MP clear ACL option. (I had seen some verify/repair permissions messages like (pretty common apparently) " Warning: SUID file "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/ARDAgent.app/Contents/MacOS/ARDAgent" has been modified and will not be repaired." ). I opened the console while MacPilot was churning away on the ACL Wipe and saw thousands of "w.MacPilot[172] chmod: no ACL present"... messages in the console.... (v2.3.8 release notes mention that's been addressed.)
    I didn't follow my own advice on the golden rule "if it ain't broke, don't fix it..." as I had not seen ACL errors in repair permissions before, only the ARDAgent and a few others.
    For those that had used Mac Pilot's ACL Data Wipe (especially on an entire HD as no info on usage was included in the app/help before the new v2.3.8 release) and are now getting "ACL Missing" errors in Disk Utility, repeatedly running Repair Permissions from Disk Utility (and again after a shutdown/restart) doesn't show the "ACL Missing" errors anymore - but I'm also thinking of running repairs on the disk after booting from the Leopard DVD's Disk Utility (in Utilities menu).

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    EyeTV 2.5.1 Feedback (including tip for those w/problems after update)
    I mentioned using EyeTV 2.5.0 (and later 2.5.1) on my G5 tower w/10.5 OK (EyeTV Hybrid USB Tuner for OTA digital broadcasts). Here's a couple reader reports that I'm late posting on the EyeTV v2.5.1 update released Wednesday - including a follow-up from a reader that originally had problems ("no signal") after the 2.5.1 update:

    "...they (ElGato support) got in touch with me yesterday. Most of their suggestions I had already tried, but they also pointed me to the location of the EyeTV Helper: /Library/Application Support/EyeTV/.
    Deleting it and letting EyeTV reinstall it instantly fixed my problem. I guess when EyeTV updated, it installed a corrupt copy. Everything works great now, thanks.
    -Dennis "

    Another reader said it fixed the problem w/remote function in 10.5 he'd seen with EyeTV 2.5.0:

    " Hi Mike, earlier I wrote that with Leopard, EyeTV no longer answers the Apple Remote. This issue has been fixed with version 2.5.1, at least in case of my Rev A Macbook 1.89 GHz.
    (I asked for his EyeTV hardware used)
    I have two EyeTV 410 (FireWire( boxes. Both worked fine from start with Leopard, except the remote functionality with the Apple IR Remote, which now has been fixed.
    Regards, Joerg "

    If you've updated to EyeTV 2.5.1, let me know if you've seen any cons or pros (include info on EyeTV model you're using, etc.).

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