Umax 8.5 Caveats Page: One reader sent a note on a special page at Umax called OS 8. Caveats that notes they do not support OS 8.5 or HFS+ and noted disturbing reports of damaged hard drives from the upgrade on both clones and Apple systems. This is very bizarre. See Umax's Support page on OS 8.5 for details on their findings.

PowerCenter Pro Owners: These seem to be the most problematic systems based on reports (but I've gotten more reports of success than failures - esp. if clean installs were used). I'm asking that PowerCenter Pro owners please indicate if you performed a clean install (best choice based on feedback) or a update over the existing OS version, and which version you updated from (7.6, 8.0 or 8.1). Did you disable updating the Hard Disk drivers in the installer? (Often PowerCC machines had IBM drives, which in the past have not been supported by Apple's driver setup drivers). I also wonder if the licensing extension could be playing a part in this (a S900 owner reported in the past that a problem in Word was related to the version of the licensing extension for instance). The licensing extension is supported to report details on the specific hardware design/config of the clone if I remember correctly. Also see Jim Stoneburner's comments and conclusions as well for possible causes of problems. If you've like to send info for including on this page, please contact me with details.

OS 8.5 and Adobe Acrobat: Devin Comiskey writes with a fix for the crashes when trying to create PDF files in Office 98 apps reported by one reader:

" Mike here is the "fix" for the Acrobat item posted this morning:
The workaround is to remove three files from the Acrobat 3 plug-ins folder: ImportPI, OCR and ScanPI. Also, when installing Acrobat under Mac OS 8.5, avoid "Easy Install" and use "Custom Install" to avoid selecting "Acrobat Capture.
Hope this helps the guy with the problem you posted today. His problem likely has nothing to do with Office98.
Adobe stated that all the bugs will not be worked out until Acrobat 4.0 ships some time in the first HALF of '99. You would've figured Apple and Adobe would've worked this out beforehand, especially with such an important program...
-Devin "

Built-in Graphics Extension - Disabled is faster?: A reader reported that in his system (7300/180 w/PowerForce G3/233/512 CPU card, 48 mb of ram, stock video with 2 mb of vram) that disabling the "Built-In Graphics Accelerator" installed by OS 8.5 nearly doubled his graphics performance in Norton's System Info tests. I welcome additional testing reports from Mac owners with onboard video (75/76/85/8600 owners). If you have tested with and without the extension active, please contact me.

OS 8.5 Audio Tips: In the past we've had several reports of OS 8.5 audio problems (dropouts, cutouts, distorted audio, etc.). Paul writes:

" Mike,
I've recieved quite a few good suggestions, and so far the thing that seems to have solved this problem (at least partially) is to simply disable the new 8.5 theme sounds. In the last day and half I haven't noticed that my sound has cut out, where before it would die at least 6 times a day.

It has been suggested that there might be something in the bus timing of the machines with this problem that casues this hiccup in the audio. This seems very possible to me, as this problem often manifests itself when you are really taxing the system (such as capturing video or playing very graphically intensive Director movies). That might be the issue here, but I frankly don't have any time to diagnose something like that. I would assume that Apple has done some internal tweaking to 8.5 to add in this new feature, and it just doesn't like my clone now.

I'll just live without my fancy little accent sounds I guess.
-Paul Carpenter "

Wacom/OS 8.5 Workaround: Mike Morkes responded to today's earlier post with a workaround on the compatibility issue:

" Mike,
One of your readers wrote that OS 8.5, Wacom and sidewinder weren't working. I had a similar problem with my Wacom and 8.5 I was able to fix it by making the Wacom control panel load last ( the conflict seems to stem from ATM 4).
Mike Morkes "

OS 8.5/Wacom Tablet/Sidewinder 3D Incompatible?:

" I have a problem using the Wacom Art Z Tablet and the Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Joystick on my 8600/300 with OS 8.5. Under 8.0 this problem does not happen.

The 8600/300 has 160 Meg Ram and an additional Quantum Viking 4 Gig Drive, SCSI ID 6. I have done a low level HFS+ format of the drive and installed OS 8.5. The Microsoft Joystick and the Wacom Tablet are attached to the ADB: Joystick first, Tablet Next, Keyboard Last (the mouse is connected to the keyboard). The system boots and runs fine. Then I installed the Wacom Driver, v2.5.5 for Graphics Tablet. The Mac goes crazy. It will boot twice -- all the init icons are displayed and then another startup. Then when starting up I get the "sad face" on the Wacom Icon, and the "Couldn't Load Software" message. Removing the joystick "fixes" the problem: no reboots or sad faces. Plugging the Keyboard into Wacom into the Joystick into the ADB reduces the failures but does not eliminate them.

I first did a "install over" 8.0 and there was this conflict: Reboots, red "X" of death on the joystick icon, or the Wacom sad face. A "clean, good, successful" start occurred 20% of the time.
John E. Fuchs "

Several readers noted they had to lower their G3 CPU Card speed under OS 8.5, but John Protopapas writes that he was able to increase it and notes a Twin Turbo extensions issue.

" Dear Mike,
Traced one OS8.5 glitch to the Twin Turbo Upgrade Extension which was identified by CC8.03 as the cause of the desktop being greyed out during init loading; this init was last modified in 1997. - I can live with the "problem" until they decide to fix it.

One other thing I noticed: it looks like the PL G3 275/275/1M which was running at a max speed of 333/222/1M under OS 8.1 in my 180 will run stable at 339/226 under 8.5. I had it running at 341/227, but eventaully caused VPC 2.1/Win95 to get a procssor error. The card is running at 73 deg F with a augmented cooling air blowing down on the card. VPC 2.1 NOW runs fine with Ram Doubler 8.01 enabled. THERE IS A 2-3% MB5 CPU BENCHMARK LOSS DUE TO RD8.01.

So far my PowerBase 180 has taken a PL 275 G3 upgrade card; the Adaptec 2940UW card/Power Domain 3.0; and an IX Micro Twin Turbo Graphics card - plus OS8.5 with only the very slightest of hiccups. All my apps are still working! The unit MB4 and MB5 CPU benchmarks are about 5% better than an Apple 300Mhz G3.

JOHN PROTOPAPAS "

Apple/Umax Investigating Disk Issues: A reader sent word that Apple and Umax are working together on the OS 8.5 disk issues and accord to his mail, there is progress being made:

" Mike,
I read what you said about waiting to Install OS 8.5 until the disk issues are resolved. I'm doing the same thing. I own a UMAX C600, and I am on a SuperMac mailing list. There is a person on there who works for UMAX, and they say that they have been working with Apple, and one of the issues has been discovered, and is being worked on. They have not given any specific details, but I thought you might be interested to know that one of the issues has been found.
Quoted from the E-mail I received, here is the updated information:

'Symptom: Failures during the installation process itself, during which the target volume vanishes from the desktop and the installer stops with an error message. After examining one of our systems that regularly exhibited this symptom, Apple engineers have determined that this one problem was being caused by the FWB hard disk drivers on the drive. Put simply, when the installer checks a disk prior to OS installation, it unmounts the target volume (if possible) before checking it, proceeds with its check and any necessary repairs, and then remounts the volume. If, during the check, the FWB driver sees that the target volume is unmounted, it removes that volume from the queue. Then, when the installer attempts to remount the drive, the "nsDrvErr" (no such drive) error occurs and the installation halts. There is an easy workaround for this symptom: reboot the system after formatting with FWB's HDT. The FWB boot drive doesn't remove disks from the drive queue when they are unmounted, so they can be remounted again when the installer is done checking the disk.'

It does not provide a lot of help, but it does provide a little bit more information for prevention. -Brian "

More on the 8.5 Audio Issues:

" I can also confirm the "system switches mysteriously to 11kHz sound" bug on my Rev. 1 G3/AV minitower. In addition, the XClaimTV that I bought to go with it now has no sound input. ATI has been made aware of the problem; they think it may have to do with the way Apple rerouted the sound input choices to fix some sort of PlainTalk bug.
Regards,
Eric Westby "

Visioneer PaperPort/OS 8.5 Issues: Reader feedback on various version issues:

" PaperPort Desktop 5.0 gives me type 2 errors when I try to open the app. Found this on http://support.visioneer.com/customer/ Visioneer's web site:

"Visioneer is aware that an Extension conflict exists between PaperPort 5.x and one of the Extension in OS 8.5. This conflict can cause the "Finder" to crash when the Title Bar is accessed. Visioneer is currently working on a fix for this conflict and expects to have it available in late Nov. (Can we hurry it up a little? - Bernie) To use PaperPort with OS 8.5 until the fix is available, use "Extension Manager" to prevent the "Control Strip" Extension and the "Control Strip" Control from loading on startup."

Their recommendation didn't help me. Still working it to see if there's another extension conflict....
Bernie "

" Just a note to let you and your readers know that Visioneer's Paperport version 3.7 is compatible with Mac OS 8.5. This is based on my experience with it so far and a note I recieved from Visioneer tech support. Sometimes it pays not to upgrade :-)
Todd Pardun "

" Hi Mike,
I found that using the control strip from OS 8.1 works fine with 8.5 and Paperport Deluxe.
Regards,
Frank Partipilo "

" Mike:
A couple of other conflicts that may not have been reported to you regarding 8.5.:

1. Visioneer Paperport (v 3.7) seems to lose it's "File" menu option sometimes.
2. Vista Scan software (for the UMax 1220S scanner) seems to lose it's "File" menu sometimes.

I am trying my other programs to see if there are other conflicts. It appears to me that a lot of software companies will need to do some "tweaking" for their programs to run completely stable under OS 8.5. I am sure that they will be releasing service updates for their programs.

All in all, I still am glad I updated to 8.5 on my personal machine. Performance is till "snappier" with Speed Doubler (8.1.1) completely enabled. However, it will be awhile before I even consider updating our Macs at work.

Thanks for the great site, and I hope your wife is doing OK given the problems that you reported some time ago.
Take care,
John Nistico
San Diego, California "

OS 8.5/Remus Lite Problems?: I've gotten two reports from Nubus Mac owners that Remus Lite v1.4 is not compatible with OS 8.5, at least in their configurations. Brian Keith Light sent a detailed explanation of the problem. I've asked if he used the Remus Lite 1.4 updater at: http://www.adaptec.com/products/faqs/rem14u.html. That update was before OS 8.5 was released and I'm not sure if it would help. (Brain later said Adaptec said Remus should work fine with OS 8.5.)

Notes on PCPro and Sonnet Cresendo Upgrades:

" Mike
I have a stock PowerCenter Pro 180 and installed 8.5 with no problems, 8.5 booted from the stock CD and I installed it with no problems. I did not upgrade my disk drivers and did not do a clean install either (I had 8.1 installed). I also have the 7200 accel extension running with no ill effects.

I also have an Apple 8100 with a SONNET Crescendo 250 installed in it that I upgraded to 8.5 from 8.1. I have been using it all day at work now for 2 days and have not had one problem. Here is the sequence of what I did to upgrade it:

- Upgraded to a new copy of the Crescendo Extension (Thanks for the info Mike) from the Sonnet web site. One thing to be careful of is the install program does not remove the old extension, so when I rebooted the system hung until I removed the old Crescendo Extension.
- Upgraded Office 98 with 8.5 fixes.
- Booted system with only the base 8.1 extensions turned on. (still running 8.1)
- Installed 8.5 CD and executed the install 8.5 program.
- Followed directions during install.
- Re-booted system and 8.5 ran fine.

Scott Kay "

Type 3 Errors with Quark 3: Alex writes Free PPP 2.6.2 was the culprit. Another reason why I stick with OT/PPP, it's less likely to have future OS compatibility issues.

" Hi Mike-
I figured out what was causing the type 3 errors with Quark 3- Free PPP 2.6.2, of all things. I didnt really need it, so I just removed it and voila- everything works like a charm. Hell, even Quark 4 seems less buggy. Actually, as much as I'm trying to be critical of 8.5, I'm finding it quite a solid update. It just FEELS more stable...

I'll keep you up to date with anything else.
Alex Koyshman "

Networking/Sherlock Errors Fixed:

" couple of interesting things.

1. First off, MacOS 8.5 left an Ethernet (Built-In) extension active in the Extensions folder. In CC8.02, I looked at the version number, compared it to the Apple Enet extension, and then disabled it.

Network transfers are now around 1.2MB/sec.

I did not do a clean install, but just installed on top of the old MacOS folder. Call me lazy. A gambler. Living dangerously, as always.

There's more:

2. Sherlock kept giving me network errors.

Well, I went aheed and used the Apple internet setup assistant, even though I already had everything configured, and now Sherlock works like a champ. Only problem, is it wiped my IC settings, and I had to re-do my .sig, my preferences for home page, preferred search engine...etc. Really a pain in the ass, as I use Emailer for email, and the damned assistant wanted me to use Outlook. I also use MT-NewsWatcher for news, and it wanted me to use Outlook. I also prefer AltaVista...but relented, and let it have it's way, and now use the default Apple search page, as it seems like Sherlock wants it that way for some reason. It could be me.

Really a pain in the patoozi...but everything seems cool now.
s. "

Feedback on multiple Macs/Network Card issues/Performance boost:

" Im running 8.5 on a host of machines after my GM developers copy arrived last week. I have had no problems on a 730/200, 9650/233 (w Jackhammer card), G3 upgraded 8600 (338mhz) with an Initio UW card, and a 9600/200MP. ALl run fine without a hitch. The only problem is when I tried to install an Asnate 10/100 card, I could not get the drivers to work properly. I am able to use built-in ethernet. I have found it to be more stable than 8.1 after heavy testing for the past month and will deploy it on my servers ASAP.

For the guy who complained about not being able to turn of the anit-aliased type, he obviously has not taken the time to check the appearance control panel.

Our internal benchmarks show the OS 8.5 to be 10-15% faster, with network transfers up to 50% faster.
t. "

85/8600 Video Artifacts - Bus Speed Related?:

" The video artifacting problem appears to be directly related the speed of the system bus. I upgraded an 8500/120 (bus running at 40Mhz) to a fixed bus speed 200/604e (bus running at 50Mhz). This setup would only boot after the Apple 256k L2 cache was removed -- so I was running it cacheless. Everything was fine until upgrading to 8.5 and then I started getting the video artifacting you describe. Reverting to the original 604/120 card fixed the problem without touching any software.

My guess is that this is a problem that will show up on a variety of machines anytime you run a system bus beyond the stock speed. [Note - since some 8500's came with 200MHz CPU cards the stock bus speed would have been 50MHz. The board design was a 50MHz rated one-Mike]
Lee Eichelberger "

Added another more reports from PowerCenter pro owners. [9/20/98]

Vimage CPU Upgrade in 7500 A-OK:

" Mike,
Just a follow-up to indicate that the Vimage Vpower G3 300MHz CPU card has no problems at all with OS 8.5 GM. I had reported earlier that it was stable in our 7500 with the Adaptec 2940UW (v3.0) and ATTO ExpressPCI PRO DC (v1.31) under 8.5f7 and nothing has changed since the installation (Clean Install!) of 8.5 GM.

This 7500 is also running a ZYNX 10/100TX card with the old, original NetBlaster ZX345 (12/4/96) driver Extension and has no problems. It loves OT 2.0, with its 6500 KBytes/second 100TX average transfer rates! ;-)
FWIW
-Rod "

OS 8.5 and Audio Playback Issues:

" I have a 8600/200 upgraded with G3 300/300 running at 333/222

Re: the screen artifacts It's caused by the "Built-In Graphics Accelerator" extension. Disabling it cures the problem.

I also had a weird problem where the sound became all garbled as if the system was playing sound at a really low rate (like a really badly encoded RealAudio feed). This sound problem is systemwide, from the finder sound, to Adaptec Jam, to MacAmp. Only cure is to reboot. I noticed that everytime I started up the Apple Video Player appliction (I use this as a mini TV without a TV Tuner card, I use my VCR as a tuner) this sound problem appeared. I had no problems with this before.

[He later wrote:]
I thought it [the sound problem] was the "Sound Quality Output" setting, but it's set to 44khz. After launching the AVP app (there's no problem with the sound in that program because the sound is just being passed through from the RCA inputs), every program's sound is really bad. I'll try to figure out more about it.
Garrett "

If you have any info on the Audio problem please contact me.

IX3D/MacsBug Feedback:

" [Responding to a quote in the weekend news:]'One reader with a G3 upgraded 8600/300 was not happy. A clean install was required to get his ISDN/Router working again and he's complaining of video artifacts and generally slow video performance.'

Noted the same thing here. I think it may be the ix3D drivers, but not certain. The video got snappy again after I yanked some desktop pictures out, and replaced them with standard desktop patterns from the Appearance Menu. I actually got a Type 10 when I option-copied a pattern from one monitor window to another in the Appearance Manager...and I had no choice but to execute a restart, since MacsBug was labelled "obsolete" in ConflictCatcher by MacOS, and is now disabled.

I had A4 MacsBug installed...and thought that was the most-current version...but am now running without it, and feeling naked.

I had one other crash, but it was in a beta of Eudora Planner...(which I still can't get to run on our ASIP6 server in the basement....it's running 8.1, still, as 8.5 is incompatible with ASIP6....but was able to force-quit in MacsBug, and then do a gentlemanly STOPAS and then a G back to the Finder, where I was able to restart gracefully.

Some little bugs in the mix, no doubt. We'll see how fast ixM and other vendors deploy updates...and we'll see how long it takes for MacOS 8.5.1 to hit the street.

Upgraded all the machines here but the server...and wondering if I shoulda waited.
S. "

I believe the original reader post was referring to onboard 8600 video, which is resolved by disabling the builtin graphics acceleration extension he said.

Upgrade Issues w/Personal Web Sharing Enabled:

" Hello Mike,
I just thought I would write to you to mention a small problem I encountered after installing Mac OS 8.5. As your site is a popular one I figured it might help get the word out on an easily fixed problem.

I installed Mac OS 8.5 onto my Powertower Pro 250, I performed a clean system install then used Conflict Catcher 8 to merge the to system folders. I then installed Mac OS 8.5 onto my Powermac 7500 but just installed right over the previous System Folder. Both installs had the same problem.

After the systems would boot up and all icons were displayed on the desktop I would get a dialog box that told me that the file "System Extension" adds functionality to my computer and should be installed into the extensions folder, see attached screenshot. Well this of course baffled me because I knew of no extension by that name.

Well after a lot of trial and error I discovered my problem. Luckily with Conflict Catcher 8 when you do a system merge you can apply labels everything that is old and new, this helped a bunch. Unfortunatly my problem was down at the end of the list so It took a while to discover the culprit. As it turns out I was running Apple's Personal Web Sharing with my prior system and to turn itself on at bootup it puts an alias into the startup items folder. Well aparently the new Web Sharing stuff doesn't need the alias to startup so when the computers got to the startup items folder and tried to run the old webshare alias I got the undescriptive error dialog box.

The fix is simple of course. Just trash the web sharing alias in the startup items folder within the system folder, viola problem solved! I hope this is helpful to anyone else out there who has the same problem. Unfortunatly Conflict Catcher was unable to determine the problem so I was left to figure it out on my own, although I probably goofed on the conflict test...hehe, I've done that before.
Paul Bush "

OS 8.5, Ram Doubler 8 and VM:

" I've used 8.5 with RAM Doulber 8 and VM, and it seems that apps can grab as much RAM as they want rather than being limited to whatever their Max is set to. For example. IE 4.01 is set to 6.5MB and has used as much as 55MB. AOL is assigned 9.0MB and is using 12.4MB as I'm writing this. Not sure if this will happen with some type of VM (either RD 8 or VM) off, but it is very weird...
Mike "

He just replied it also was a problem with RD and VM off and was going to try a clean install to see if it fixes the problem.

PowerCenter/Pro Feedback: Very mixed reports (some fine, others a disaster) from owners of this model (latest reports first):

" I had hard disk corruption problems using 8.5 on my PowerCenter, similar to those reported by Umax on their own systems as well as Apple systems. At one point, I was trying to boot from a partition containing 8.5 but could only get a gray screen freeze. Even booting from a CD failed. It was necessary to open the computer and disconnect power to two problem drives, allowing boot from a CD or the third drive. At that point I reconnected power, and was able to update drivers on the problem drives, then mount them and repair them with Norton. My drives are IBM 5400rpm Fast and Ultra SCSI drives.

I am not certain the cause; at first I thought it resulted from using FWB HDT 2.0.6 drivers on some disks, and allowing the OS 8.5 installer to attempt to update those drivers. But a later experiment suggested that merely booting from a partition containing OS 8.5 may have corrupted the drives. Another suspect is Norton Disk Doctor 4.0.1 that I used to repair the drive corruption the first time it happened following OS 8.5 installation; I previously had problems with drive corruption using DD 4.0, so I remain skeptical of 4.0.1.
Best wishes,
Jim S."
See his Attachement: with details and conclusions.

" Hi !
I'm not having any problems with Mac OS 8.5 on my PowerCenter Pro 240, 160 Mo of RAM, two Ultra SCSI hard drives and an Ultra SCSI CD-ROM on the stock 2930B card, latest versions of applications and extensions.

Power Windows, which allows solid dragging of windows, is MUCH faster with OS 8.5. Overall, responsiveness has greatly increased compared to OS 8.1 ; however, RAM requirements rised sharply (5 to 10 Mo more). After a few hours of use, my system heap reaches nearly 40 Mo... (I use 8 Mo of disk cache.) But who cares nowadays :-) ?

By the way, I'd like to tell other Power Center Pro owners that the 7200 Graphics Acceleration is of no use to them, as these machines have an ATI video and not the original 7200 onboard video.
Thomas "Rorqual" Perrier "

" Hi, Mike!
I have a PowerCenter 166, 128MB RAM, 4GB 7200RPM IBM U/W drive on an Initio Miles card, plus 2GB stock 5400RPM IBM drive. I just attempted to upgrade to 8.5 from 8.1, and ran into a pretty serious problem. I'm running a full extension set but have tried removing potentially troublesome extensions such as Speed Doubler and the like.

In short, my machine won't boot without virtual memory on. After having a handful of random crashes after installing 8.5, I got looking around and found that the Mac OS installer had enabled virtual memory -- obviously a no-no since my boot volume is on the Initio card. But when I shut off VM, the machine won't boot. It appears to boot fine, but it bombs with an "illegal instruction" error a little after the desktop background appears, after all extensions and everything but before desktop icons show up...every time.

I've tried doing the same on my stock SCSI drive, and same things happen when I shut off VM. Darn! I feel sorry for the user who didn't keep a copy of their old System Folder just in case! IMHO, this is pretty weird, because I've *never* had any problems with upgrading the OS before on this machine, from 7.5 to 7.6 to 8 to 8.1. :(
Best regards,
Eric Stacy "

" Hi Mike,
I also had a problem with 8.5 on my PowerCenter Pro. Right after I installed it, I got not sound at all. The Monitors & Sound control panel showed a Sound Output Quality of 0.000 kHz (not changeable). Adjusting the volume slider just caused the machine to crash. I did a clean system install, and everything works fine now.
Jim "

" I've also had problems after installing MacOS 8.5 on my PowerCenter Pro 210. Everything worked well for a while, but then went terribly wrong. About half the time I get a Happy Mac that won't go away and the other half I get garbage to the screen.

In any case, it no longer functions. I've been using, repairing and programming Macs since 1986, and I've never seen anything like this. I thought I'd blown the CPU until I read the other reader's report.

Some things I've tried: zapping PRAM, removing battery, removing SCSI card, removing all RAM, removing L2 cache, reseting cuda. So far, nothing has worked. Aside from an extra 32MB of RAM, my machine is stock.
John West "

" I've been running 8.5 on a PCP210 (stock) for three wks. no problems whatsoever. Clean install over 8.1 Update drivers disabled (The barracuda was formated with Apple disk tools 1.5) Office 98 was installed, I don't know if that particular extension (licensing extension) was present [I was referring to the Mac OS licensing extension-Mike]. Hard drives: Stock 2 GB, 4 GB Seagate Barracuda (system disk)
Jason "

" Mike,
I am running 8.5 on a PowercenterPro 240 with 4.5 and 9.1 GB UltraNarrow drives installed, wth Xclaim VR (3.3) including the ATI extension 1.4.6 for built in graphics, the 7200 accelerator extension and a boatload of other extensions. The only problem I have is that occasionally the startup process halts due to what I believe is NAV 5.0.2, a forced restart usually allows startup with no problems. My startup drive is HFS and the other 3 volumes are all HFS+, all formatted with HDT (not PE) 2.5.2. The scsi card is the adaptec 2930B.
Joe Borzellino "

The worst report on OS 8.5 upgrades so far follows. It sounds similar to the Umax destroyed disks stories linked above:

" Just installed the new OS 8.5 and now all I have is the happy face startup icon that won't go away. I have a modified PowerCenter Pro with a PowerLogix G3 250, Cheetah 9.1 UW and a Jackhammer UW scsi card. The system has performed wonderfully until I upgraded to OS 8.5. I've tried starting up from the CD, from my Jazz drive and I get nothing but the startup icon. I have even tried swapping out the Powerlogix board for the stock PowerCenter Pro 180 card. I've have also tried disconnecting my Cheetah drive. When I use my old OS 7.6 emergency disk, I bomb. I have been trouble shooting MACs for quite a few years and this one has me stumped.
Jim Barnes "

Another reader says he had no problems installing the upgrade:

" Hello Mike,
I'm just writing you to let you know I have had little or no display artifacts on a PCP/180 with both the 7200 graph acceleration and the ATI graphics acceleration extensions enabled.

I've had oocasional glitches with HotLine and WhatRoute, but I attribute those to not being Appearance Manager savvy...
Jonas "

If there are any PowerCenter Pro owners out there running OS 8.5 fine please contact me.

OS 8.5 on Umax S900: Alex Koyshman, author of the Cats-n-Dogs column wrote:

" Hi Mike-
I installed 8.5 on our Umax S900 and, on first look, seemed to install just fine.

HOWEVER, it doesn't seem to behave exactly right. Quark 4 opens fine, for example, but quark 3 doesnt want to open and freezes the computer (Type 3 error). I'll keep you updated what else behaves oddly.
Alex "

More Graphics Problems and Lost File Associations: Note also the comment on Syquest Extension ordering in the update.

" Mike,
I read your news regarding another person with a G3/8600. I have an 8600 w/ Newer G3@300/150. I'm getting strange image artifacts in Adobe Photoshop v5.0. Looks like horizontal dashes, lots of them. They usually redraw themselves out at some point, but not always.

I've checked other image-editing applications, and I haven't been able to duplicate the problem elsewhere, or in any other program. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough. Oddly, I can't coax Photoshop to open by clicking on a graphic file, unless it's saved in Photoshop format. I used to be able to automatically view TIFF and JPEG images in Photoshop just be double-clicking on them. I always get that dialog box prompting me to manuall select Photoshop (or another application) from the list of available apps. I have to do that every time.

I went to the FILE exchange control panel, and spent quite a bit of time setting it up. Still, no dice. I can't figure that one out.

btw: I never saw the video artifacts, or had any kind of video problem with the Beta builds. I used 8.5b6 for quite a while on this same 8600.
[Later update after I suggested disabling the builtin graphics accelerator extension:]

Bingo! Good call. It worked immediately. No more weird image behaviour. I see that as a plus ; - \
I'm still working on the file exchange thing. That may take a while.

One other thing: regarding the Syquest utilities problem noted by another reader, I moved mine to the top of the control panels folder by putting a blank space before the name of the utility. Seems to work fine. Funny that I'm not the only one having that problem, either. My machine would hang in a big way if that Syquest cdev were left to it's own devices. That all started with the beta builds.

btw: your work regarding the RAID stacks internal to the 8600 will be admitted to the hall of fame. Well done.

The hardware, in case anyone's interested:
8600/G3 @300/150 (Newer)
Adaptec 3940uw
Adaptec 2940uw
3 Seagate Barracuda UW Drives: all internal
1 stock Apple drive: internal
Syquest EZ something drive, Zip drive
152mb RAM, 4mb VRAM

Rick "

Bad experience on a G3 Upgraded 8600:

" Mike,
I got 8.5 today and tried installing it on my 8600 with G3 300/150 processor. 224mb of ram. Its a super fast machine. I like it lots. Anyway, first I copied my system onto a new disk and tried to update it.

No luck, for 1. internal mac video gets garbage crap in the windows. Uggh. 2. My network connection doesn't work anymore. I have ISDN and a router, and it basically couldn't find its own ethernet device anymore. 3. I HATE those stupid arrows on the alias icons, I didn't buy a windows computer here. They are totally superfluous and dumb. 4. The transparent & smoothed graphics are totally slow and I can't figure out to turn them off. ... I am so unhappy. I expect alot more from Apple.

SO then I did a clean install onto an empty hard drive. All the same problems as before but I could get the networking to work this time.

Basically I just want sherlock for 8.1 I will keep my stable non crashing non buggy OS and have sherlock with it? Is that possible? [Not that I know of-Mike]

Alternatively how can I turn off all the glitzy crud that I don't need and which slows me down. This new OS was supposed to be faster! What the heck?
-Ira "

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