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Published: 5/15/2000 (Last updates: More CompUSA combo card reports (success), 2 FireWire Direct problem reports, a CompUSA card problem report, and latest OM combo card reports.) Updated 11/26/2001 for OrangeMicro FW/USB 2.0 report:
NOTE: Although not a combo card as far as I know - a reader with a Digital Origin card noted only 1.5MB/sec rates with the card and a fast Oxford 911 Firewire/ata bridge case (the OWC elite drive - reviewed here at the firewire articles page. His comments indicated the card is not OHCI compliant. Other others of the DO card noted in the forums they also has low general file copy performance, etc. Just a FYI to avoid any other complaints of poor performance, even with a fast firewire drive. Here's a clip from a post from the owner of the card:
Note the early OM cards at least, had the NEC firewire chip which had lower write speeds than the TI chip FW cards I tested. (Even with a portable VST drive, the NEC chip Western Digital card had lower sustained write speeds by appx. 6MB, almost half the rate of the TI chip cards I tested like the RocketFire and FWdepot cards. Some readers in 2001 have said that OM may have changed the chip on their Firewire cards however. Contact the vendor if in doubt.
In May of 2000 at the main www.xlr8yourmac.com news page, I asked for owner feedback on combination Firewire/USB cards. I was most interested to know if they worked with only Apple's Firewire 2.3.3 and USB card support 1.4.1 drivers (without any of the vendor's drivers installed). I know that most Firewire-only PCI cards work fine with Apple's Firewire 2.3.3 drivers, but was curious if the combo cards with USB would also work with only Apple drivers.
The answer in most cases seems yes, but a few owners didn't state if they tried both Apple driver sets. I've separated problem reports, but note that like all upgrades, some owners seem to have problems with the same brand card and even Mac model, so make sure you read the success stories and not just the problem reports.
[Updates:]
Although it's not a combo card, I had good luck with the FWdepot.com $69 Firewire PCI card in my S900. This low-cost card performed as well as the RocketFire card with my VST portable drive and Sony Firewire CDRW. A review/comparison of that card is listed on the Firewire topics page. My review of the $69 FWdepot Firewire only PCI card is also there.
One tip - this card and some others include a power supply connector (the FWdepot.com card comes with a cable, some others don't). It may be more reliable to select/connect the power cable option (obtain power from the Mac's power supply cable, not the PCI bus).
RocketFire USB/Firewire Combo Card Tests in S900: [Update: a reader wrote to say that the Rocketfire combo card is now sold by VST, not by Macworks.] I know others have reported the RocketFire card outperforms most other Firewire PCI cards, but I have to say I am impressed at how much faster it is. I just tested the RocketFire USB/Firewire combo card in the S900 which previously had a Western Digital Firewire card installed. I was shocked at the difference it made in performance with the portable FirewireDirect drive. ATTO benchmark sustained write rates were nearly twice as fast with the RocketFire card (6MB/sec faster). Before the card swap I suspected the low write performance may have been due to the older Mac motherboard. All tests used the same Apple Firewire 2.3.3 drivers only (no card vendor drivers used). The Rocketfire uses the same TI chip Apple has on their G4 systems, the WD card uses an NEC controller. I have to say the RocketFire card has earned a spot in my older Macs; providing great performance and freeing up a PCI slot that was used with a USB card. The Rocketfire card is made by Meltdown systems and sells for $129.99 (Firewire only version) to $169.99 (Firewire/USB version) at Macworks. Requirements are a PCI PowerMac running OS 8.6 or later (6500 macs are not compatible according to the manual).
For results of tests between the RocketFirew and WD cards with a bus-powered firewire drive, see the Benchmarks page of my Portable Firewire HD Kit article. (Note - although I have not tested USB speeds, the Rocketfire USB ports do work fine with my USB ZIP 250MB drive.)
Note: See the problem reports section update for two new entries from the forums noting problems with the Evergreen combo card in Macs.
Success Stories: (Most Recent First)
[Added 11/26/2001] Recently purchased and installed and OrangeLink+ FW/USB (2.0) combo card
in my Beige G3 MT (350 mHz upgrade O/Ced to 400 mHz, 384 MB, OS 9.2.1).
Installed in first PCI slot (recommended per documentation) and have
Radeon PCI in 3rd slot. Had to go back to install USB card support from
the 9.2.1 installer and after that it has worked perfectly to date with
testing using Kensington USB mouse. I have also been able to use the
Firewire port to enter Target Disk Mode with my Titanium PowerBook
(550/256/OSX 10.1.1) successfully.
[Added 6/27/2001]
Well, the rumor you heard is true. I just got the new OM FW/USB (1.1)
a couple of weeks ago, and it has the Lucent FW chipset (and an
internal FW port, but still no auxillary power connector), which is
indeed faster than the NEC chip. The write speed on my ClubMac/Maxtor 17.2 GB 5400 rpm FW drive kit increased from 7-8 MB/s to around 12-13
MB/s, and read speeds increased from 11-12 MB/s to 12-13 MB/s. This is equal to the maximum transfer rates the drive achieved when it was
on the 2nd IDE bus of my Biege G3. Thus the card is no longer a
bottleneck for my drive.
My USB devices still work flawlessly (USB 250 MB Zip drive and Epson
750 printer). I have yet to test DV export, and probably won't get
around to it for a couple of weeks, so I'm just reporting what I know
now. We often discuss these combo cards on the 8500/8600 list (info
at http://www.bigfat.com/mac8500-l/). While none are perfect in
legacy Macs, and several people agree the OM combo card is among the
most reliable overall.
BTW, the CompUSA combo card was mentioned by some reports. I noticed
it in the store the other day, and it appears similar to the OM card.
It has the same shape and layout, same internal port, but with a
power connector added. It is a nice bargain at $70, but the OM card
comes with an A/B USB cable and a 4 pin-6 pin FW cable, as well as
video editing software (Premiere 5 LE for Mac, Ulead VideoVision for
PC), better warranty, and excellent tech support, making it a good
value in my mind. Hope this info is helpful.
Recently there was a PowerMac 4400 owner report here that noted he had problems using a Firewiredirect FW/USB combo card. His latest comments noted tests with several other brands and one that finally worked:
FWDirect combo card... As stated previously - doesn't function
completely. Even with direct power (not PCI bus), USB peripherials
don't work. Firewire does work. SANITY CHECK: Inland USB card
(#08307; $10 at Fry's) performed well - with PCI power only.
CompUSA card SKU# 280284... Again, all possible combinations with power
and OS (8.6 and 9.1). FIREWIRE does not work with this card. Every
time a Firewire device begins to be recognized by the finder, the finder
freezes - a force-quit works, but the device won't be recognized. USB
is fine and scanner/printer/Trimedia Reader peripherials work well.
Again, after a complete diagnostic to check for any kind of conflict
with extensions and so forth... No Firewire connection. (Same was
tried with the FWDirect card).
OrangeMicro combo card... Since the trusty PPC 4400 won't be running
Mac OS X and most likely won't ever be able to support USB 2.0, the
final test was with the OrangeMicro combo card (the same as others have tried in this forum). This card does not have a power connector, so
it's only powered by the PCI bus. This card works well with all of my
external devices! USB and Firewire, both work nicely. [Added 6/24/2001]
System:
Installation: Easy
I didn't need to reinstall any Apple Firewire drivers because they got put
in my system with the default install of OS 9.1 whether I had a Firewire
card or not. I never touched the additional CD with drivers from Orange
Micro (it was a year old).
DV: Great
With my Canon Optura, everything worked great in both iMovie 2 and Final Cut
Pro 1.2.5; camera controls worked fine, importing and playthrough back to
the camera worked perfectly. I've found this to be a great card for my DV
camera, which is 2 years old, and my friend's new Canon ZR30. In my
experience, it worked just like an iMac DV 500mhz.
Firewire Drives: Don't Know
USB: Good
Overall: Good
Unfortunately, the new one also does not work. The 8600 crashed like mad
with the card installed. I then tried it in a 7500, and got even worse
results, with text under drive icons disappearing and other ugly video
artifacts. The bad symptoms went away as soon as I pulled the card.
There's no indication on the packaging that CompUSA is using a different
card. But the new one seems to be a real dog, at least in a Mac. And of
course it's now too late to return it.
[she later wrote]
Anyone still looking for a CompUSA card should check the picture on the box.
Just wanted to pass this along, as a heads-up to anyone else who's tempted
to buy one. Unless they get lucky and get the card with the power connector,
it probably isn't going to work. [Earlier reports follow]
My hardware:
I've had an *OrangeMicro OrangeLink Combo card* for a while now, but only
used it for USB.
Recently, I bought an external Firewire card. Attempting to use it
with the OrangeLink card (both with Apple-only drivers and with the
Disk Control 1.1 "FireWire Disk Support" driver) was a disaster. The
drive would mount OK, but any attempt to read or write from the disk
would freeze up the computer after only a few seconds of disk
activity.
In desperation, I went down to CompUSA and bought their *USB/1394 Combo card*.
It cost $70, and uses the Lucent chipset.
Works like a charm.
I get 20.5MB/sec sustained reads and 10.25 MB/sec sustained writes
with all kinds of stuff running in the background (a semi-real world
test; I did not do a clean boot before running the benchmarks).
No software (not that you need any). Four slim pages of documentation
(which, most amusingly, say "This Combo Card is made exclusively for
the IBM-PC or compatible line of computers.").
" Another CompUSA combo card owner reported mixed results (see his comments from the problem reports section below.
[From the 11/22/2000 www.xlr8yourmac.com news page].
So I bought Tango and replaced with the one of OrangeMicro. My Tango is
working just fine with my Firewire HD (RX-35F FW HD case from Planex
http://www.planex.com.tw/product/drive/rx-35f.htm) that did not work with OrangeMicro (especially read mode was not functional at all).
BOOSTER L2 54/64 400 G3 upgrade from Interware (AKA Vimage in USA)
OS: 904J
Hope this info will help others.
[added 7/4/2000] Ratoc Firewire Card Reports: I received several reports on the Ratoc card - surprisingly owners reported it had an NEC Firewire controller chip (which was much slower at writes than the TI chip cards in my tests). Here's a report from a Beige G3 owner that the Ratoc card did not like to coexist with a Wired4DVD card:
This was in a beige G3 minitower with the AV card. The Mac booted fine
with just the Ratoc card. I don't have a USB or firewire peripheral to
test it with however. I bought it in preps of getting some ;-)
The minitower has only 3 PCI slots, and Wired4DVD worked in the one that
once held the Ratoc card when installed by itself. Another Ratoc card owner wrote that Zapping the PRAM solved a sleep problem:
Another owner reported a DOA card and the fact the Firewire chip was from NEC:
Unfortunately the card is dead, when I installed the card in my Rev 3 Beige
MT it would chime but not start up. I've decided to go with the new combo
card from FireWire direct, I'll let you know how it goes.
[added 6/20/2000] Here's the latest feedback on the Evergreen combo card that included a note on extensions:
Beige G3/266 DT rev 2, with an OWC G3/366 CPU upgrade
PCI Slot left* ($C1) - Evergreen FireLine
PCI Slot mid ($B1) - Mark of the Unicorn 324 (2408 audio interface)
PCI Slot right ($A1) - empty
* As seen from the front of the machine
Everything works perfectly so far. I'm using a Keyspan USB hub and an
Intellimouse Explorer on USB, and running iMovie with a Sony TRV-900
on FireWire.
That said, with a previous config I did experience a similar startup
crash as reported by some others. I couldn't startup at all, even
with Shift held because I guess these QT FW extensions are loaded
early:
QuickTime FireWire DV Enabler 2.1.2
PCI was setup like so:
PCI Slot left ($C1) - Radius/DO MotoDV FireWire card
I finally had to disable the QuickTime FireWire DV extensions. At the
time, this was ok since the Radius/DO extensions did their job
anyway. The Radius/DO MotoDV card also uses a Texas Instruments
FireWire chipset.
Since everyone with trouble seems to be focused on the FireWire 2.4
extensions, and not the QuickTime FireWire DV extensions, users might
make sure they have the latest 2.2 versions. I had to get them via
the custom option of the QuickTime Updater.
Thanks for reviewing this card [I didn't review it - but there are comments on the Firewire/USB combo card feedback page-Mike], and the others. I ended up saving
money and grief, avoiding the slow output speed of the NEC FW
chipset. I suspect that's why people with OrangeMicro cards can
capture DV video just fine, but can't print back to the camera.
Peace, One other Evergreen card owner that reported problems orginally said that a clean install of the Firewire and USB (apple) extensions seemed to have helped.
[added 6/19/2000] Although several recent owners reported problems included another one this weekend (see problem reports section below) some Evergreen card owners like this one reported all OK. (I separated the very long text into paragraphs for readability)
I have used the camera successfully with final cut pro and other apps
on g3's and g4s at work. So I was a little hesitant after reading reports of
problems, but decided it was worth it anyway. So I popped the card in the
3rd slot from the top of my trusty 9600/200 with original 200mhz 604e cpu in
it...still waiting for the perfect CPU upgrade. :) I've got 256 megs of
RAM, Voodoo II card, IXMicroUltRez 8mg video card, Mac OS 9.0.4, several
standard scsi-2 internal and external drives, tape drives, syquests, zips,
scanners, wacom tablet, etc, etc...basically fully loaded workhorse machine.
All I had to do was install Firewire 2.4 and USB Card Support 1.4.1 and
everything worked like a charm. USB was able to recognize an imac mouse I
had lying around (didnt test USB too much as Im lacking in the usb
peripheral area). Then I updated Final Cut Pro to 1.2.5 and tried out the
firewire. It talked to my camera perfectly...Was able to control it great
with not a problem. I dont have the best capture rates (dropping a few
frames) because of my slow highly fragmented cheapo quantum drives but its
great for tinkering. I will try dropping in a UltraSCSI drive soon with a
Adaptec card Ive got around here somewhere and see how well I can capture
with some real drive space.
All in all I have had no problems yet but have really done any "production" grade work with it. It is pretty nice though, its got 3 external firewire ports and 1 internal and 2 usb ports. Also it
uses the TI chipset for Firewire and intel chipset for USB. I didnt notice
too much else worth noting as far as any asics on the card are concerned.
The documentation and CD's were all PC based..so they are still in there
shiny plastic wrap..destined to stay there for all eternity...There is not
any info at all about installing on a mac but if you go to there website and
follow this link:
http://www.evergreennow.com/prequal/default.asp?product=fireline
It comes up with a compatibility table for all their firewire products and
there are links to Apples software installers for Firewire and USB (although
the firewire link is for 2.3.3 not 2.4) it also notes minimum requirements
and has a table specifically for Mac compatibility.
I am curious to here more details about the USB issues mentioned by some
other evergreen card owners in your forum as to their exact nature.
Especially the reader who mentioned USB sound issues.
Also if you know anyone who has a spare g3 or g4 upgrade lying around I
would be more than glad to compatibility test it with the Evergreen card for
them... ;)
Anyway, keep up the great work!
I've used my Compact Flash Card reader in the USB port and it worked, as
well as the Sony Video Walkman. I am very happy with it as I had run out
of PCI slots.
The only downside so far is the card only indluded drivers for a windows
machine. The website claims to include the Apple drivers, and included
links for the drivers, but someone without internet access would have
some difficulty. See the later problem reports below for two other owner reports, one noting USB problems, the other noting firewire problems with the Evergreen card.
This thing's got 2 USB ports & 4(!) Firewire ports (3 external + 1
internal). It's working great so far in my 9600/350. I have a USB mouse
and game controller hooked up to USB and I borrowed a DV camera and grabbed
some video into iMovie with it to test the Firewire. It uses the TI
Firewire chipset.
No drivers needed other than Apple's USB 1.4.1 & Firewire 2.3.3. I'm
running 9.0.4.
Just thought others might be interested. I've been looking for a combo
card for a while and this one was the best deal I've seen. I paid ~$112
shipped from buy.com using one of their online coupons
The FAQ link he notes is for their Grappler SCSI card, I could find no OrangeLink Firewire card FAQ at their site. (A later reader mail sent the correct link, which does not seem to be listed at their support or products pages when I checked this sunday. The OrangeLink FAQ is at: http://www.orangemicro.com/faqolmac.html. The other question I had was does the Apple USB Card support drives work as far as USB ports on the combo cards. (I.E. - can you use only Apple's Firewire 2.3.3 and USB Support 1.41 drivers, and not any of the vendor's drivers and still get full card functionality)
I've asked him which Mac model he's using that required moving the card (6 slot mac perhaps, but my S900 has 6 PCI slots and the Western Digital card works fine in the 5th PCI slot (2nd slot from the bottom).
I've asked Adam if he's using Apple's Firewire & USB drivers or Orange Micro's.
The Apple USB extensions work without problems with the card too.
I am quite happy with my setup. I have not seen any slowdown with Q3 Demo (demo1 timedemo tests) since installing this PCI card.
Beige G3/233 (OS 9.0.4, 192MB of RAM), the only other PCI card I have is an ATI XClaim VR 128
I only have Apple and ATI extensions installed on my system and the EL Gato Firewire HD driver
Here are my personal findings (No Benchmarks though)
The Machine:
This is my PowerMachine (i've also got a lombard 400) used for 3D rendering,
digital video, TONS of photoshop etc.
I got the card so I could capture with my FiancČ's Canon GL1, and make use
of the LaCIE 20gb Firewire drive I use for backing up my Lombard (via RATOC
FireWire PCMCIA card) and my VST 6gb Firewire pocket drive.
I've noticed a pretty decent slow down in performance overall using the
Orange Micro card. Considering I sit in front of this thing 4 to 6 hours
every evening, it is something I've noticed in the finder.
Upon FIRST installation of the card, I figured I'd just go with the Apple
USB and Firewire drivers. I had TONS of problems, copies just wouldn't
finish to either of the external drives and the machine would crash, crash,
and crash some more.
So I installed the OrangeMicro drivers, that fixed the crashing problem, but
now the machine seems to be slooooooow.
ALSO, the machine has a lot of problems booting up if a drive is attached
and powered up. Odd no?
I've been using my Microsoft Intellimouse on the USB port without a problem
since day 1. The USB is good, the firewire is a bit buggy in my opinion.
Otherwise a good solution for someone needing USB and Firewire on 1 card,
since all of my PCI cards are full now (I yanked a 100bt card for the
Firewire card...)
It's times like these I wish Apple still made a 6 PCI slot machine. That or
it's finally time to get a G4...
Devices used:
Everything worked with the OrangeMicro Firewire Extensions enabled as
well as disabled.
Extensions enabled:
Regards
A brand new LaCie Pocketdrive (via either USB or Firewire), a
Kensington TurboBall, and a Keyspan PDA adapter all worked fine
before and after the drivers' removal, but now the system is stable
again.
The USB is used for the Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer, USB cradle for a Handspring Visor.
The Firewire ports have only bene used with iMovie, Final Cut Pro 1.2 and a Sony TRV-900 DV
camcorder.
The system works flawlessly... I haven't had a crash which is pretty amazing considering that an upgraded S900 is certainly not one of Apple's recommended configurations for Final Cut.
Anyway the combo card is a great addition to my S900, which is pushing an
amazing 3+ years yet seems as capable as any of Apple's new machines. I must
applaud Apple for writing such great drivers, and essentially allowing
legacy systems to benefit without any additional cost USB and Firewire.
Regards,
I didn't even bother to install the OrangeMicro drivers. I just started
using iMovie with my JVC camcorder (not officially supported), using
Firewire 2.2.3 and the latest USB Card Support (1.4.1 ?). I also have USB
Overdrive installed.
It works perfectly. I haven't tried to export back to the camcorder yet
(I'm in the midst of a Mothers' Day movie project, with clips of my 15 month
old daughter), but everything else worked absolutely flawlessly. No crashes
or problems at all.
BTW I think iMovie and desktop video is nothing short of miraculous. To be
able to shoot and edit movies at home, with so little effort, is
mind-blowing.
I also have a TurboMax PCI card with a 27 Meg. WD drive. As you might
expect, when I try to use the TurboMax drive with iMovie, I get stuttering
and cut-outs (as previously reported/experienced with the TurboMax and my
8500).
Time to buy a bigger internal SCSI hard drive :)
Up until the latest drivers from Apple, I needed to use OM's drivers, but
since the latest release, OrangeMicro has had me remove their drivers and
just use Apple's. I have a (can't remember whose) USB hub and Handspring
Visor USB cradle, SanDisk compact flash card reader, and an Aiwa USB Travan
tape drive for backup. They all have worked flawlessly with OM's card.
I haven't had a chance to test any FireWire equipment with it yet, but hope
to get a Que CD-RW drive in the near future.
With that card, my ATi Orion, 3 SCSI buses, analog A/V in/out, serial
and ADB support, floppy, etc, I would put my 8500 up against any B&W
G3 and know it can hold its own. Granted this 4.5 year-old
motherboard is a bit bus-limited, but it still handles my video work
with aplomb. (Heck, DV makes it even easier). It's case may be a bear
to open, but I think they look better. Thanks to your site I've been
able to keep this thing ship-shape and up-to-date, and for a pretty
reasonable price.
I have a five of these installed in beige Rev. 2 G3's updated with
Newer 466MHz ZIF's and there is no problem. Most are being used to
upload digital photo's from various popular digital cameras. None are
currently used with FireWire drives, but are used with a few USB
scanners.
-Rod
If you examine complaints logged at the MacIntouch site (he has a firewire section) you will see that I was not alone (hundreds, including resellers have had problems with these cards).
My advice (except to the 3 sigma "it works" exceptions) is stay away from Orange Micro firewire cards of any type. Getting my money back was a nightmare, as yours will be if you have problems.[Note: Several Orange Micro owners reported using only the Apple Firewire 2.3.3 drivers worked fine-Mike]
Now for the good. I decided to try a RocketFire 4-port Firewire/USB PCI card. The first one they
sent out (by mistake) was a prototype (backing plate missing). They quickly sent out a replacement. Their card has worked flawlessly using the new Firewire 2.3.3 and USB 1.4.1 Apple drivers. I was able to capture video using both the USB and Firewire. Using the Firewire I was able to seamlessly capture video into Final Cut Pro without dropping any frames. I also
have had no problems with random crashes with the RocketFire. In checking out the card MacWorks told me that the Rocketfire uses the Texax Instruments chipset, which is the same one used by Apple. However, that the Orange Micro uses the NEC chipset. The results speak for themselves. Even my video editor friend was impressed. The performance importing and
exporting video to his Sony 3CCD DSR-PD150 was as good or better than some of the machines they use at his shop (they use everything from upgraded 9600's to G4 500's).
My machine is configured as follows:
Umax S900
A Long Time Site Follower,
[added 7/7/2001] (Email from June 2001 that I just spotted tonight in my overloaded inbox)
CompUSA Combo Card in 7500 Problems:
The Success stories above had some other reports on the CompUSA card.
Firewire Direct Combo Card Problems:
I bought the FirewireDirect Combo USB/FW card about 4-5 months ago.
Quickly noticed that I was having problems printing color output on
my Epson 870. Spent a week or two jiggling things around.. no luck.
This even included doing a totally fresh OS install on a spare
partition, OS 8.6/ OS 9.1. Nothing worked. Tried through a powered
hub, and direct to the card itself. 2 to 18% of the image would
print, then I'd get a message about loosing touch with the printer.
I HAD been using a cheapy (i.e. no cost.. a gift from xlr8 because I
had a lot of trouble with one of their accelerators.. resolved, BTW)
USB card that printed just fine. But now I have a FW based burner,
and with limited slots, I had to go combo.
Wrote to them.. they wrote back, acknowledged that they knew about
this "bug" and were working on a patch or software update to address
this issue. Would be available in about 2 weeks (this is 4 months
ago).
Since that time I'd sent at least half a dozen polite inquiries. All
went unanswered. I checked their site today.. no information at all..
looked at FAQs, looked at a link that implied I'd find compatibility
problems. No mention of this at all.
They continue to sell a product that has KNOWN TO THEM serious
defects.. with NO warning to the public. AND it is clear that they
don't intend to ever fix the problem. $110.00 thrown down the drain.
Do YOU want to ever buy anything from this company (hope they're not
an advertiser!)? I sure as hell won't.
I could print just fine through a xlr8 USB card..which they sent me
free because I was having troubles with one of their accelerators..
(they had to do a board swap).
"
FirewireDirect Combo Card/PowerMac 4400 Problem Report:
Card Specs:
Machine/OS specs:
When I got the card, I loved it. With PCI or direct power, it was fine
for use with a VST Trimedia Reader for USB and for Firewire connection
of my iBook (target-disk mode). I have NEVER had a problem with data
loss, but did find some freezing here and there with transfering of
digital images from CF or Smartmedia on the VST TM Reader. Not
consistent enough to raise suspicions, however. I have done so many
things with my 4400 and have tried so many non-Mac or unsupported
upgrades that I thought that I introduced my own bugs.
Now that I've upgraded the remainder of my peripherials to USB, I'm very
unhappy with the card. The printer (HP Deskjet 932c) and scanner
(Canoscan 1220U) that I've connected (not the VST TM Reader) don't want
to work. I've even used a powered hub and gold-plated cables, etc. I
DO have communication with the printer, scanner, and the Mac (identified
with Apple System Profiler) and I can install software and begin work
with each device. Part-way through a job, however, there is failure to
communicate (the printer dialogue box says that the printer is no longer
connected or powered). The peripherials work flawlessly with the USB of
my iBook, so I'm certain that there are no problems with my printer or
scanner. The VST TM Reader even freezes my iBook occasionally, so there
was little reason to believe that the USB side of the Firewiredirect
card is problematic...
I've tried everything - including removing other PCI cards, installing
and using OS 9.1, diagnosing extension conflicts, getting rid of other
power-drawing internals like the CD-ROM and one of my hard disks...
I've never been able to get the printer or scanner to work.
I believe that the Firewiredirect card is the problem. In the product
literature, they specify a couple of Macs that do not work - the 6500,
for example - because of 2.0 version PCI slots. It turns out that my
4400 has the same kind of PCI slot. The card, apparently, requires a
2.1 compliant slot. Can this be such a problem? Perhaps so, perhaps
not. I'm going to test out another card (the FMI combo cards sounds
promising) and also a cheapo USB card just to see... Some PCI Firewire cards like the fwdepot card
I reviewed have a power connection on the card
- which some say helps with that series of motherboards
where there's less than adequate PCI bus power
if I remember correctly. The FWdepot card came
with a "y" power adapter cable to connect
to the card (the other end connects to a
HD power supply connector)
Not sure that would be a 100% solution
(powered cards or other card models)
but just a comment on the issue noted
last year with some macs.
[added 4/5/2001]
VST Combo Card and Orange Micro Combo Card in Beige G3:
I tried these cards with iMovie 2.0.3 and a JVC GR-DVF21U and could
import, preview, etc but they wouldn't export to the camera. The
camera's tape transport runs, but it doesn't go into record mode. With
the Orange Micro Firewire/USB, but found that if I pressed the record
button on the camera after the tape started moving the camera would
record. I tried this with the VST card and the camera locked up when I
pressed the record button and iMovie reported that the Firewire
connection was lost. I switched back to the Orange Micro card and it
works okay (if I press record).
I reported the problem to VST and they want me to return the card for
repair/exchange, which I'll do when I can free it up. Right now it's in
a PM7500/G3/400 (Sonnet) where I needed its USB, which seems to work
okay.
I'll report back when I get the VST card back and let you know if it
works. I really wanted to go with the VST card in my G3 because it
uses the TI chipset and is reported to be one of the fastest Firewire
cards out there. Not that the speed makes a difference with iMovie,
but I'm planning on getting an external Firewire HD and CD-RW soon, and
expect that the difference between the VST and the Orange Micro card
will be evident.
[added 3/23/2001]
FirewireDirect Combo USB/FW card and USB Printers: A reader ask I post this as a warning to others:
Just got off the phone with FW Direct tech support. There is a compatibility
issue with their USB/FW combo card and USB printers. Supposedly a patch is
due out in the next week or so. Check FirewireDirect's site for an update in the future that may resolve this issue.
[added 7/5/2000]
Evergreen Combo Card/PowerCenter Pro Problem Report:
PowerCenter Pro 180 MT
Everything had been working quite well, but I decided I needed some more
storage and the current IDE disks were really tempting. So I went for
the Evergreen card and the ADS Pyro Firewire/EIDE converter box, plus a
Maxtor 30gb hd.
I proceeded to replace the Entrega USB card with the Evergreen card,
hoping the Intellimouse would keep working; it didn't. In fact, the
computer would just hang during the booting process, right after the
XLR8 extension had loaded. Booting with extensions off didn't help
either, so I had to restart from the OS 9 cd. To cut a long story short,
I had to manually remove the USB extensions (both Apple's and
Microsoft's) and the Intellimouse control panel before being able to
boot from my regular partition.
I had to remove the card, performed a clean install of Apple's USB
drivers (no Intellimouse this time), put the Evergreen card back in and
still no go. I then tried USB 1.2 from Apple [note 1.4.1 is latest-Mike] to no avail. So, in a
nutshell, USB support with the Evergreen card in my system is
non-existant.
I was frustrated to say the least, but hoped for a chance that the
Firewire portion of the Evergreen card would work, so that I could use
my new ADS Pyro and Maxtod drive. With my system folder free of USB
extensions, I installed Firewire 1.4 [2.4 I assume-Mike] from Apple and restarted. So far,
so good. While at the finder, I installed the 2 extensions that come
with the Pyro and restarted again. Still going smoothly. As per ADS
instructions, I turned on the Pyro case (Maxtor already installed in it)
connected the provided firewire cable between the Pyro and the Evergreen
card and after about 10 seconds, the usual notice for an unreadable
drive appeared on screen. So I just proceed to click OK to initialize
the disk as a MacOS Extended volume. The menu bar clock stopped ticking,
the mouse and watch pointer both froze and I literally started crying
beyond relief. I went to my second Mac and started browsing the web for
answers. Like your site.
After about 8-10 minutes, the Maxtor volume finally appeared on the
desktop and the clock and mouse became alive again. Since initializing a
disk usually involves just creating a file directory, it shouldn't have
taken but about a few seconds and not minutes. So I wasn't too excited
about seeing the mounted Maxtor volume. I then tried saving a tiny 10k
text file to the Maxtor by dragging it from another volume and once
again everything froze... took almost 2 minutes for the file copying
process. It made the 7200rpm DiamondMax UDMA66 Maxtor perform like an
80's 5.25 floppy drive... under 50ft of water.
I thought I was loosing my mind but decided to perform the
troubleshooting process just as I did with the failed USB ports. Went
back to Firewire 2.3.3, removed every other PCI card, minimum extensions
set, tried MacOS 8.6 from another volume, you name it.... still the same
results and sometimes it wouldn't mount at all after leaving it for
several minutes aftrer a cold restart. I also tried removing and
reinstalling the latest Quicktime Firewire support as your reader said.
I was able to borrow a second Evergreen card (from a PC user) with the
same ill results. Now, I wasn't expecting to use this setup for DV
capturing, just for my USB mouse and extended and inexpensive external
IDE storage (after all, the cost of the Pyro and Maxtor combined is
still well below similar size SCSI prices). Btw, the ADS Pyro and Maxtor
works great with a G4 and its built in Firewire ports.
So, should I return the Evergreen and go for some of the other
USB/Firewire combo cards providers? Or, could it be that the PowerCenter
Pro is no match for a firewire card? Any other ideas on how to make this
thing work? Evergreen is still mum on the issue, and as your other
reader pointed out, the only current solution is to remove the card. For
the time being, I went back to the Entrega USB card for Intellimouse
support. It is working well, even with all the firewire extensions
loaded (both from ADS and Apple).
I am really sorry for the extremely long letter, but I hope I was able
to describe the problem in hope of a simple solution.
Thanks again for your great site and knowledgeable support. I could only suggets a card like the Rocketfire perhaps - but not sure that
would work with the Intellimouse, as even a Ratoc card owner (see below) reported
probelems with the IntelliMouse.
The support guy said it was due to the way the mouse draws current when the mouse is in
motion; it usually freezes when I move the mouse while something else is
going on (like starting up photoshop). He said that there was nothing to be
done and that other makers cards are affected as well but I have seen no
reports anywhere (including your fine page) of this kind of problem. Anybody
hear of anything like this?
There was some talk of possibly using a hub but
the guy was unsure that would help or not. I have a Que! 8x firewire CD-RW
with which I have had no problems with. Any help/info appreciated.
I have worked with Evergreen tech support and they can only duplicated problems with "sound drivers", such as USB speakers. They were unable to try to duplicate my problem because they didn't have the USB modem or scanner. The tech support people seem pretty cool, just need some more experience on the Mac side with more hardware.
Haven't tried the firewire yet, I just bought a Sony Digital 8 camcorder so
I will try soon. BTW, I also bought an OrangeMicro combo card that works
without any problem. I think the USB chip on the Evergreen card is
inferior.
Other info: PowerMac 8600/300 Upgraded too XLR8 Mach Carrier G4/400, with
Adaptec 2940UW SCSI controller and ATI Xclaim 128 VR. Using latest Apple drivers at the
time (USB 1.4.1 and firewire 2.3.3).
Thanks for an incredibly useful website!
[added 6/15/2000]
In Response To: Evergreen Firewire/USB card by Theo
I also have an Evergreen card, but I have NO problems with the USB. My problem is the FireWire. The USB works fine on mine. I have a Gravis Gamepad Pro, Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 900u monitor (with built-in hub), and an Epson 740. All are recognized on the USB bus. I used the drivers provided at Apple for add-on USB devices. These are for computers without built-in USB, but with a card.
On to my problem! I can't even boot with the FireWire Enabler extension enabled. Even if this is the only extension or control panel that is enabled, my system hangs on boot. The cursor is still active, but the computer just stops. I try rebooting with extensions off and the same thing happens. Had to boot from a CD before it would even finish the boot cycle. Anyway, after removing the FW extension and enabling everything else, my system would boot without sound! Couldn't figure out how to get sound back, but it eventually returned. This is the built-in sound, not USB sound.
As far as the USB, Evergreen has acknowledged there's a problem with the USB, but they have no idea about the FW. Have you tried rebooting with ONLY the USB drivers installed and NOTHING else? Maybe there's something going on? I asked if they would send me another card to try thinking maybe something's wrong with this one, but I haven't gotten a response back yet.
" Theo's post from the forums follows:
Test failed. I got a huge freeze just at the beginning of the copy to the ZIP drive of some big files. Had to force restart, tried no extensions, copied one file to the ZIP, then my Logitech mouse 'lost control with Houston.' :-)
Restarted tried to copy the same file again, at the end of the copy it froze.
Who cares how fast the Firewire section is, I didinít even try it.
Suggestion to Mike: when you test a combo card you have to test BOTH functions. [Note - the only Combo Firewire/USB Card I've tested is the RocketFire card - and both USB and Firewire work fine on it in my experience.-Mike] This card has a generic USB chip on it, which is crap. I did manage to print a nozz;e check test print through my Epson 1270 printer, but that does not mean this cardís USB is to be trusted AT ALL! I am using 9.0.4, btw, with 1.4.1 USB software.
Do not buy it!
Cal had sent a previous mail prior to the forum post above regarding his Evergreen card problems:
I haven't been able to get my system to boot with the FireWire
Enabler extension enabled. FireWire Support seems benign, but the
enabler hangs my system on startup. Cursor still moves, but bootup
stops. I've installed FW 2.4, enabled ONLY the FW extensions with NO
control panels nor other extensions and the problem still occurs.
In order to get my computer back, I have to boot from CD and manually
remove the FW extension from the Extensions Folder (booting with
Extensions Off results in the same hanging problem). After restart
with the restored Control Panels and Extensions, all of my sound
inputs/outputs disappear. I haven't been able to figure out what to
do to get the sound back, but it happens eventually. BTW, this is
NOT USB sound, this is just normal, built-in sound.
I've switched PCI 2 and 3 and still have the same problem. Called
Evergreen Tech and they're working on it. Just wondering if anyone
else has had this kind of experience. As recommended by Evergreen, I
removed the card, rebooted with all extensions enabled including the
FW 2.4 drivers and it started up fine. Seems to me there's a
something about the card and drivers that don't seem to want to mix.
-Cal
[He later wrote:]
I actually sent that as an entry to your combo card page. I
had the same problems with the 2.3.3 drivers. Are the other two
people using Beige G3 Rev 1? The guy at Evergreen is using a 7200
and apparently shows no problems, either. There does seem to be some
USB sound issues that they have discovered, but I haven't experienced
anything like that.
"
[5/16/2000 Update]
Orange Micro Firewire/USB Combo Card Sleep Issue? A reader reports a problem with this card in his Beige G3:
I've asked Vic if he's using only the Apple Firewire 2.3.3 and Apple USB card support
1.4.1 drivers. Based on reports, the Apple Firewire drivers are a better solution that using
the vendor's drivers.
Note: In my S900 running OS 9.04, I'm using a Western Digital Firewire card with only the Apple Firewire 2.3.3 drivers. It does not show up in Apple System Profiler (it's in the 5th PCI slot), but works fine.
Tried the Ratoc Combo card after that and usb worked great, but card would not
recognize the firewire drive unless I used old orange micro extension,
then after a while not even with that. Wouldn't work with either of 2
versions of Ratoc driver.
Tech support from ratoc was email only from japan. Sent it back too. I was using latest apple usb 1.4.1 and tried firewire 233 and 222 versions.
Waiting for Powerlogix combo card to come out, as I only have one slot available.
I recently bought a G4 500Mhz, and read that I could network it with my old machine via firewire using FIRENET from Unibrain (Unibrain.com). Both machines are running OS 9.0.4 and firewire 2.3.3 and I have yet to get it work. Unibrain's repsonse was:
From: George Mastrokostas (gm@unibrain.com)
There might be something wrong with the orange micro card.
Please try to connect 2 Mac's with a built in firewire port and you should
get them runnining.
I haven't received a response from Orangemicro on the problem. I move large photo files from my old machine, which has become my scanning station, to my G4 and it's a small pain to save the file to the VST drive, disconnect, reconnect to the G4, and open the file. Expecially when the drive won't come up on the older machine maybe 15% of the time.
I welcome your comments and experiences regarding Firewire/USB combo PCI cards. Please include your card brand, drivers used and Mac model/OS version.
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