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B&W G3 ROM Update Feedback
Tracking Update Specific Problems/Solutions/Improvements
Updated: 5/12/99Introduction: Since within an hour of posting a note on the G3 Firmware Update for the new B&W G3 I was getting problem reports, I've created this page to list comments and hopefully resolutions on any issues that are discovered. Current installation is the primary problem area.
I also want to list any performance or other improvements seen after the update as Apple promised improved PCI, Firewire, etc. performance.
Note: I have verified that both the 1.02 and 1.1 firmware update (same firmware file) does not allow a G4 CPU upgrade to be used in the B&W G3 - only 5 tones are heard at boot. XLR8 says ver 1.0x ROM worked with the G4 CPU ZIF I tested.)
(However there are firmware patches for this included with G4 CPU upgrades for the B&W G3 - you just apply them *before* you install the G4 CPU module.)Important: Do not install the Firmware Update on Macintosh Server G3 with Mac OS X Server computers. (Apple's warning)
Update 5/12/99: - If you had problems applying the 1.02 update, Apple has released a B&W G3 Firmware update 1.1. Note that the code is the same as the 1.02 update so unless you had problems with that version you do not need to apply this update.
Dan Knight wrote with a tip on the install:
"Power Mac G3 Firmware Update 1.0.2. Instructions disagree on procedure. Read Me file indicates you should hold the programmer's button until the tone is finished (step 5). Program's internal instructions say to release the button when you first hear the tone. Waiting until the tone is done did the job for me."I flashed my B&W G3 with no problems by following the readme file instructions (waiting for the tone to finish before releasing the programmer's button). In my tests after the update, I see no improvement in 64-bit PCI Ultra2 SCSI performance, Photoshop 5 performance or Rave Quake. I'm still looking for examples of the improved PCI, Firewire, etc. performance noted on Apple's Firmware update page.
If you have comments on improvements, installation tips or problems to report - please contact me with specifics.
David sent a note that Apple has released a B&W G3 Firmware update 1.1 for those owners that had problems installing the 1.02 update. Note that the code is the same as the 1.02 update so unless you had problems with that version you do not need to apply this update. (Update - there are two 1.1 firmware versions in existance 1.1f1 and 1.1f4 (the latter seen on a June 1999 purchased B&W G3 rev 2 machine.) Although the code was said to be the same between v1.02 and v1.1, if in doubt - apply the latest 1.1 update from Apple.)
Problems Fixed by the Update: Two reader reports from the recent main site news: Apparently the Firmware update does help in PCI Card compatibility according to this report (and one other from a Audio card owner):" I have just been able to use an OrangePC card in Apple's new Blue and White G3 after updating the firmware of the G3. Both the OrangePC 660 and 620 now work with the current OrangePCi 3.3 software.
Joel Vink
Director of Engineering
Orange Micro Inc "Another report that the firmware update fixed a lockup problem with a PCI audio card:
" Hi Mike,
I tried the firmware update for my Yose (350 O/Ced to 400 w/ DVD). Updating was a sinch, although, when after the progress bar, my Mac restarted itself about 3 times in a row, there was a moment of terror ;-). Anyway, the one most spectacular improvement of this update was the fact that I was able to install and use my audio board, EMAGIC AudioWerk8, which used to freeze my Yosemite before upon boot. I've only had it in for a day, so I'm not sure about the stability, but it worked, and that's a progress (since EMAGIC itself seems _VERY_ reluctant to do anything about it...won't even answer my e-mails, those bastarz). I think all those who have been having trouble with audio cards should give it a try!
Sincerely,
Satoru Murata "
This reader reports problems running specific software after the update:
"From looking at the reports on the main internet sites for Mac Troubleshooting and etc it would seem that only I have had major problems with the firmware update. I'm running a new B&W G3 350 with DVD, the open GL drivers. Everything was fine until I did the update and then I got bombs when trying to run stuffit expander (latest version) and MacAmp. I've removed these two programs for now and am crossing my fingers, wishing I hadn't done the update.
Lord Xoi"He later reported he downloaded and reinstalled the latest Stuffit and it worked fine.
This report indicates improved Netboot performance after the firmware update, as promised by Apple:
"Hey Mike,
So far, booting NetBoot clients is probably about 10 seconds faster! (Let alone not having to dismiss that dialogue box) I haven't observed any differences on the X Server, but probably the NetBoot is partially a result of that (also applied the 1.0 -1 OS X server patch previously).I'm going to test to see if it will stop freaking out when I move the NetBoot Server to a different zone than the default one. I don't know if the firmware is responsible for that or not..
Aaron "CUDA Reset needed to cure problems:
" This is an update to comments I sent earlier regarding my experiences with the blue G3 firmware update. The update installed without error (once I got the "tone" issue settled). After installing it on my G3/350 + Zip, the USB chain became so unstable that the machine would NO LONGER BOOT if my Entrega (7-port) USB hub was in any way plugged into the computer (or keyboard). It would freeze with a bus error during the startup sequence.My Keyspan USB serial adapter also refused to be recognized unless plugged into port 1 on the G3 (used to work off the hub before applying the Firmware update). And my Gravis USB gamepad pro, when connected, would also lock up the machine.
No amount of PRAM zappage would help. After nearly 2 hours of trouble shooting, moving around various USB devices, and reinstalling system files, I was able to (so far) solve the problem by pressing the CUDA/PRAM reset button on the motherboard. This seems to have returned the computer back to working condition. Hopefully it'll last. BEWARE! Unless blue G3 users have a specific need for the update, I'd wait!
Michael "A reader sent me (and several other sites) some tips on the B&W G3 Firmware update. I'm puzzled by his comment on the ATI/Firewire extensions loading (item D), as I've never personally had this problem nor have any readers reported it.
" Here are a few things to remind users when installing the G3 Firmware Update:1. Hold the programmer's button in front of the computer until the computer stops making that tone. [This was noted earlier in Friday's news and repeated several times on the this page-Mike]
2. After installation, here are a few things to make sure everything works correctly:
A. Reset Startup Disk from both the Control Panel and from the Control Panel folder (do both)
B. Reset PRAM. [see earlier post on USB/Serial adapters-Mike]
C. Rebuild Desktop.
D. Make sure the ATI drivers load AFTER Apple's firewire extention.
After installing the update, I Norton Utilities' System Info reports that video performance has LOWERED. Previously, I had noticed that Apple's Firewire extention did the same thing to video performance and removed it from the Extentions folder since I don't have any firewire peripherals. But now, even with the extention removed, video performance is lowered... It went from about 815 down to about 755 (Norton Utilities' Sys Info). Since the new firmware lowered the video score, I decided to reinstall the firewire extention to see if there would be any further adverse affects... After testing, no, video performance remained at about 755, so I left the extention in.
(ELai72) "I don't consider Norton's graphics benchmark as a very complete one, or one that simulates actual application calls, as does MacBench's scripted Graphics and Pub Graphics tests (which emulate actual application calls during the test).
Rave games:
Just an update on that last mail I sent you regarding the update. It seems that the ROM update is causing some problems with some programs. To make a long story short, while 8.6 causes some instability with the machine, the ROM update has made Myth unstable in RAVE mode (back to 8.5.1). Software rendering seems totally reliable while RAVE mode will freeze the screen at random times. Looks like ATI will have to update their drivers once again (tried the OpenGL beta extensions too). Other than that the ROM update seems to work fine.
Tony" Just upgraded the ROM on my 400 B&W G3. I can confirm that you must wait until the tone ends, before releasing the programmers switch. Interestingly, I also had to zap the PRAM after the update in order to resolve conflicts with devices attached to my Keyspan USB to serial adapter. The Remote Access control panel would not recognize my Teleport 56Kflex, and no applications would recognize my Stylewriter II. The zap did the trick, I'm back in business. Hope this can be of some help.
A Tapia "
Another reminder on the tip above and a note on a possible bug:
"I successfully applied the firmware update this morning to my B&W G3 400. I followed the instructions in the read me file. If I remember right, they say to hold the programmer's button in until the tone completes. I think the instructions in the installer only say to hold the button until you hear the tone. A small difference, I know, but perhaps crucial. [This was noted in the Tip posted earlier today (see intro above)-Mike]I have noted one anomaly: PaintRoundRect using patOr does not seem to be working. This patOr allows you to draw a pattern where black pixels in the pattern are drawn but white ones are not. This is a simple way to get a semi-transparent background over a picture to draw text onto. I can't swear this is due to the firmware upgrade, but it is definitely peculiar to this G3.
Thanks for all your work on your indispensable web site!
Harry Mahoney
SoftStuff Corp."
"Hey,
I installed the update on my 350 last night and it worked flawlessly. I simply followed the instructions in the docs and off it went. So far, no improvement in the way the machine behaves (even though I believe it's a bit faster but that could be wishful thinking) but I'll keep you posted.
Jean-Michel
PS: Great site! Keep it up!"
"Mike,
I concur with Dan Knight on the G3 Firmware update. I was not able to update as per the documentation, only after attempting on several occasions and tweaking the procedure was I able to update the Firmware.
Great site!
Scott"
"Hi Mike,
I installed it successfully, but you have to be very careful about the process.The interrupt switch, I notice, is slightly recessed, at least on my unit, so you probably want to use a pen or screwdriver to hold it down. You need to hold it down till after you hear that little long "tone" right after the startup chord. If you do that, it should "take." [The earlier tip has a similar note - to hold the button down until the tone finishes-Mike]
Wish they could make these firmware updates more certain; every time something of this sort comes out, someone, somewhere, has a problem. [many people apparently - the contradictory instructions in the readme and in the installer don't help any-Mike]
Another consideration: I had to restart twice before the G3 recognized my startup disk again. It kept giving me that disk icon.
Gene "
Another positive install report with important tips:
"Just to let you know the update worked fine on my B&W. It was very neat to do. This is actually the first firmware (not ROM image) update I have ever seen for a Mac - older Macs have had a ROM slot but I have never seen Apple issue a new ROM.The key thing to the firmware update is to READ the README file (and print it out). You must follow it exactly or it will not work. The interupt button must be pressed till the end of the tone. Note this tome is not the startup sound. If you fail to press it down before you hit the power key it will not work. Also the interupt button is fairly stiff. I used the end of a plactic pen that was round to hold it in - a paperclip tip may dent the plastic.
The system will then start itself and the progress bar will come, it is at the bottom of the screen and uses the modern appearance manager (its cool). This was followed by two successive self restarts (perhaps to make sure the pram gets cleared). On the second startup the system came back to life and then idicated the firmaware update was successful. I had to do it twice - the first time I slipped and let go of the reset button too soon and it failed.
Good luck everyone. My system seems very stable after the update (no crashes for over three hours now).
Andrew Edmondson
Systems Admin/Webmaster
The Paradigm Group"My B&W G3 has been rock stable as shipped, so I'm still curious as to what improvements the update offers for most users.
The reader who had the first post of problems (6 failures) wrote back to say he had followed the install tips and had done several iMac ROM updates and so was familar with the update process.
One reader commented on a small increase in benchmark scores (might be within the variation of Macbench if not booted clean each run) and a faster 'feel':
"Dear Mike,
Macbench 4 scores show 2 to 3% boost in processor and disk. The computer "feels faster". It is a noticeable difference.
Oleh Sharanevych"I'll benchmark mine tonight before and after with the current MacBench 5. A clean boot before each run to make sure the cache states are the same.
Another reader problem report:
"Mike:
When I attempted to install the update I got a message indicating that my software could not be recognized, and that it may be more current than the update. I have no idea what that means -- my boot ROM version is 1.0b4.I called Apple, was assigned a case number, and am awaiting resolution from their engineering people.
Dick Platt"More Problems reported:
"Mike, Last night I tried to update the firmware on my B&W using the firmware updater from Apple. I followed the instructions to a tee. Upon restarting my Mac, while holding down the programmers key, I should have heard a tone. I instead heard the startup chime for a second time and booted up into the OS where I was informed that the Firmware was not updated. The error told me to review the instructions...so I did. It then allowed me to attempt another shot at it.When I attempted to perform the update again, I received an error that said "The 'G3 Firmware' file cannot be found. Click OK to find it. " I did that an couldn't find the file. Probably because it is not a file at all, right?
So I tried again and pressed the cancel button this time and received a MacOS error #-43. Clicked cancel and went back to the desktop.
My Mac boots just fine... The way I understand it is, if the firmware cannot be found, the Mac will not boot. Right?
Upon talking to Apple support, I booted into firmware successfully and performed a reset-all, reset-vram (something like that), and another reset function. I thought this would do the trick but it still cannot find the firmware for my machine even though it is there.
Any help from you or your readers would be very appreciated. Specifically about firmware commands that may help my system identify that it has one...
Many thanks,
Glen White
Miami University"I welcome Tips or other feedback that may solve this problem.
From the first post on the main site news:
"I have tried to use the updater on 6 b&w machines (all 400's) each one fails to restart the machine, so I never see the progress bar and I eventually have to restart the machine myself which then says the update failed. Go figure.
Michael "I welcome other feedback on this update.
Other Yosemite/G3 Related Links:
- B&W G3 Compatibility Page
- Rage128 Driver Update Feedback
- Internal Modem Issues/Tips Page
- For info, specs and compatibility tips on the new Blue and White G3, see my Yosemite page.
- Yosemite Performance - Benchmark and Applications test results from both my own tests and reader submissions.
- For games performance results and tips on optimizing your new Yosemite for gaming, see my Yosemite Gaming Performance page.
- For information on all things G3 (tips/upgrade articles on drives and CPUs/compatiblity/troubleshooting/software updates) see the main G3-ZONE page.
- Jumper Block Settings - the first page to document the jumper block speed settings on the new G3s. Warning: Do not attempt this on your G3, it will void your warranty and could result in data loss or hardware failure.
For reviews and tips on CPU Upgrades for other Mac models, or Graphics card, SCSI/Disk or other performance information and daily news, see the main site page at www.xlr8yourmac.com.
This page will be updated with additional information in the future.
If you have comments or input on the new Yosemite G3's please contact me.
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