[1.01 Updater Released: A reader just noted that Villagetronic has a v1.01 update (2.8MB) to their MP850 (3Dfx Banshee) graphics card:

" hi
i remember there were some articles on your server how to run quake, unreal etc. without the graphical errors and stuff - well, village tronic apparently recentla (4/9) released a new version of their banshee/nextgen drivers, but nobody noticed it. if you download the new village tronic driver package you get version 1.0.1 of the banshee drivers, unreal seems to run without sound problems now and i guess the found some other bugs, too. just try it... ftp://ftp.villagetronic.com/pub/mac/VillageTronicInstall%28e%29.hqx

-yt "

I've added this info to our original MP850 Glide Performance page as well.-Mike]

[Update: A reader just sent a note that the MP850 manual notes that if 'sparkle supression' is ON that audio might be affected. Perhaps this may be one reason for the audio stuttering reported by most owners-Mike]

Good news, I am happy to report that Quake and Unreal can run without problems with the MP 850 ( some audio problems will soon be fixed)

First of all , I found out that the resolutions available in Unreal or Quake are dependant of the resolution of your monitor BEFORE starting the game. So let's say you want to run Unreal at 920x768, set your monitor's resolution to at least 1024x768. Otherwise, 920x768 won't be available. It is the same thing for Quake. I also realized that the refresh rate of your monitor highly affects the framerate, maybe more than a voodoo II. Somehow, the way the drivers were designed is like the monitor refrsh rate in 2D affects the refresh rate in glide. Maybe this is due to their desire to implement 3D in a window. In that case, 3d rendering would be linked to the 2D monitor refresh rate.

[Updated]: In fact this is what Villagetronic recommends about resolutions : " Please choose a resolution for your desktop that will at least equal the resolution you would like to play your game in. Game settings that would exceed the resolution you chose for your desktop will not be available during the game set up."

They also point out the importance of setting the resolution you want to run the game in BEFORE starting the game. Not doing so will results in image degradation: " The game screen will always be scaled to full screen in case the desktop is set to a bigger resolution than the game actually is. If the difference is very big, you might notice some jagged objects resulting of this scaling process. If you would like to achieve the optimal in graphical quality, try to run the desktop at the same or only a slightly higher resolution than what you decided for your game."

I also found out that using the tweaker is very important. In fact, without it, Quake would not run at all. So here is how to run Quake:

First start the tweaker and do the following settings :

• Frame Ram-4MB
• Vsync default
• Sets Quake
• Texture Ram 4mb

Then save this tweakfile (menu file) in the QUAKE folder (same root as Quake 3DFX). Keep the tweaker open and start Quake 3DFX 1.09. Quake should start fine.

here are some tests I did : ( 75 hz refresh rate for my monitor) (type timedemo demo2 at the console and press "~" again to raise the console)

machine specs: Powermac 7600, G3 PL 220/110 set to 330/132, 512k RAM, 224 MB RAM, 150 Mb allocated to Unreal

Timedemo	Mp 850 (640x480)	Voodoo II (640x480)	Mp 850 (800x600)	Voodoo II (800x600)
demo 2	37.2	43.1	34	29.0

If you set your monitor to lower refresh rates, you will see the score dropping rapidly. For example :

• 60 Hz: 29.9 fps (demo2)
• 67 Hz : 33.1 fps (demo2)
• 75 Hz: 37 fps (demo2)

This reminds me of Descent 3dfx where the maximum frame rate you can get is determined by your monitor refresh rate. If you got a monitor that supports higher refresh rate than 75, send me your score, I bet we could get higher numbers with refresh rates of 90 Hz. Finally, as I reported yesterday, there are still some audio artefacts present that should be corrected in the next beta.

[Updated]:

I spent more time tonight playing with the MacMagic Pro tweaker (version 1.0) and I found very interesting results with Quake. The finding that the Mp 850 seemed to be dependant on your monitor refresh rate opened the door to the possibility that much higher framerates could be obtained. In order to verify this, I turned OFF Vsync (VOFF) with the Tweaker and got the following results :

[Added 3-24-99: scores with MP 750]

machine specs: Powermac 7600, G3 PL 220/110 set to 330/132, 512k RAM, 224 MB RAM, 150 Mb allocated to Quake 3DFX 1.09.

Turning off Vsync litterally reveals the hidden power of the Mp 850 as you can see above, allowing it the become the new king of the Hill for Quake. Turning off Video sync free the card from having to wait for the monitor to display the frame it just rendered. This causes some rendering artefacts from time to time normally , but I did not see rendering errors in my tests with Vsync off. I would have like to test the Microconversion Voodoo II with Vsync off also but this option is not available with this card for Quake. I also add the score obtained with Mike's B&W G3/400-ATI 128 for comparison. Interestingly, the MP 850 keeps pace with the ATI 128 even with Vsync ON at 800x600 and with a much slower CPU( 330 Mhz vs 400), slower bus and slower cache ( 132 Mhz vs 200 Mhz) . I was also surprised to see it performed better than the Voodoo II at that resolution (5 FPS faster for the MP 850). [ just in : According to Villagetronic in-house tests, the MP 850 scores an impressibe 70 fps in a B&W G3/400 for Quake demo1 ]. If you want to see something go really fast, try to run Quakeworld demo with the Mp 850 (VOFF). It gave the fastest score I have seen on a Mac with any cards : 78.4 fps ! The MC Voodoo II scored 52 fps for the same test. I think a B&W G3/400 could break the symbolic 100 fps with the MP 850 running the same demo.

[added MP 750 comments]

I was surprised to see the MP 750 keeping pace with the MP 850 since it has a slower Ramdac (230 vs 250 for the MP 850). [Note: the RAMDAC controls refresh rates and since a 20MHz difference would only result in slightly higher vertical refresh rates at very high res (beyond what games use) I would not expect it to make any difference in game performance at all. The RAMDAC was integral in the Banshee chip I thought, so I'm surprised that it is a different speed in the MP750.-Mike]

The scores with Quake were identical with the MP 850 for all 3 demos with Vsync OFF. With Vsync ON, the MP 850 had a very tiny advantage which I think is not significant.

As we did in the previous analysis, I also wanted to check how would the MP 850 and 750 perform in Quake in a slower Mac. For this, I used my 7600 604e 200 Mhz , 256k L2 cache. The results are as follows for Quake :

The MP 850 and 750 performed less than the Voodoo II in a slower Mac in Quake by about 10 fps at 640x480. Even with Vsync OFF, the Voodoo II still has the advantage by a few fps. At 800x600, the Banshees came back on top, evening the Voodoo II with Vsync ON and beating it by 5 fps when turning Vsync OFF. Again here, the MP 850 and 750 performed the same.

Unreal:

As mentioned above, you have to set your monitor to at least 1024x768 to be able to set Unreal to 920x768. Otherwise, the maximum resolution available will be the one your monitor was set to before starting Unreal. To avoid the weird characters in the menus, start Unreal at the resolution you intend to play the game.Changing the resolution within Unreal will cause rendering degradation. As Villagetronic explains : " The game screen will always be scaled to full screen in case the desktop is set to a bigger resolution than the game actually is. If the difference is very big, you might notice some jagged objects resulting of this scaling process. If you would like to achieve the optimal in graphical quality, try to run the desktop at the same or only a slightly higher resolution than what you decided for your game."

After a lot of tests, the setting called "refresh rate" located in the 3DFX menu of the advanced menu of Unreal does not change anything at all. This is true for the MP 850 and the Voodoo II. After the results I saw after turning off Vsync in Quake, I was eager to test the same thing with Unreal. Since Unreal has its own tweaking settings, it is not necessary I think to use the MacMagic pro tweaker. I tried Unreal with or without and got essentially the same results. I ran Unreal Timedemo using our HQ setting with the refresh rate set to 75 hz for my monitor at 640x480 and 800x600 . Here are the results :

machine specs: Powermac 7600, G3 PL 220/110 set to 330/132, 512k RAM, 224 MB RAM, 150 Mb allocated to Unreal.

I find those results quite interesting since the MP 850 Banshee has only on TMU and can't therefore benefit of multitexturing in a single pass. The fact it is clocked at 100 Mhz as oppose to 90 for the Voodoo II probably compensates. Surprisingly, the turning OFF Vsync added very little benefit for the MP 850 and the Voodoo II. This may indicate that the CPU could be the bottle neck in this case. Villagetronic told me they were now optimizing their drivers. This means we may expect to see some improvements in rendering speed and a fix to the reported audio problems with the beta drivers.

Now let's see if a slower Mac is able to keep the Banshees happy :

On the PC, the Banshee outperformed the Voodoo II with several games , especially in middle range machines like the Pentium II 200. On Mac , with the current banshee glide drivers, the situation is different. The Banshees are not performing as well as in a faster Mac (see above). The scores with Unreal at 640x480 and 800x600 with the HQ setting were less than what you can get with a tweaked Voodoo I (Power3D) or with the Villagetronic MacMagic 8 MB. (see my previous analysis). I was also surprised to see the frame rate being similar at all resolutions, varying by a few fps only. We will see if Villagetronic can come up with drivers optimized for middle range Macs but at this moment, if you own an ATI Rage Pro or a Voodoo I cards and have the equivalent of a 604e 200 Mhz Mac, there are little advantage of getting an MP 750 or 850 to improve your gaming experience.

Conclusion:

I am pleased with the performance, especially in Quake! At this point, I think the MP 850 coupled to a fast G3 will outperform the competition in 3DFX glide games that do not use multitexturing in a single pass because of its higher clock rate. So for most games on the market now, the MP 850 delivers very well. This should be the case for Quake, F18 Korea, Carmageddon (impossible with the Voodoo II), Shattered Steel, Myth TFL, Future Cop etc. In the bargain, it will also be possible to run games at higher resolutions that are not normally available with the Voodoo II. If you own a middle range Mac (604e, 603), I would recommend you to get a voodoo I card though. The reason as show above is that those Macs are not powerful enough to feed those newest 3D cards with the latest games like Unreal

With games that uses Unreal Engine (Unreal, KHG) or Quake II engine I think the Voodoo II and the ATI 128 still have the advantage because of their capacity to do multi-texturing in a single pass. At this point, it is hard to say who will be faster in Quake II or III since these games will require openGL driver. [Many readers are asking about the status of Game Wizard and VillageTronic OpenGL drivers, ATI has theirs I'm sure from reports of Quake II/III running on the Rage128 and past history of OpenGL support-Mike]

Provided that Villagetronic fixes the audio problems encountered with the beta drivers, the MP 850 is a solid product that will satisfy most gamers. Considering the fact it sports a fast 2D engine in millions of colors, it will also satisfy DTP applications users. It will soon offers support for all 3D APIs (Glide, Rave and OpenGl ), has a good 2D performance and soon the capacity to do 3D in a window. Finally, the fact it saves you a PCI slot in the bargain is a great plus.- Frank

[just in from a reader ]

" Hi Mike, I tried the same like Glenn A - i put a Rage128 card from a b/w G3 in a 7300 PowerMac equipped with a Maccelerate!750 (375 MHz CPU/185,5 MHz 1MB BSCache/53,5 MHz Bus) and it works really fine. I used the newest ATI Drivers and got the following results: Unreal (96 MB, no VM/(32bit) hq video/(44,1 KHz) hq audio)

Resolution	ATI 128 from B&W G3 in a 7500, 375Mhz/185.5 1 MB cache, bus 53,3 Mhz)	MP 850 with a Powerlogix 330/132, 512k cache ,bus 43 Mhz)
640*480	28 fps	23.56 fps
800*600	20 fps	19.93 fps

While it is early to draw any conclusions yet, those results indicates that the Mp 850 performance comparison in Unreal vs the ATI 128 promise to be interesting. Above the Mp 850 scored nearly as well as the ATI 128 in a slower G3 Mac. We will keep you informed as soon as the ATI 128 cards are released, not before May 1st according to Bottomline. [Bottom Line got this info from my page posted yesterday on Official ATI Rage128 Status and FAQ-Mike]

Here is a list of compatibilities issues with the latest beta glide drivers:

Myth II:

Myth II ran at 20 fps (our Drawbridge Myth II benchmark utility), at the same speed as my Power3D and my Voodoo II at 640x480. I was not able to run Myth II at 800x600 because the game was then quitting without any notice. I did not see any problems like some reported using the same tweaker setting as I used for Quake.

Myth TFL:

Works fine. Please make sure to set your desktop to 640x480 pixels prior starting the game. Configure Myth in order not to change the display resolution automatically.

Carmageddon 3DFX:

It runs perfectly by using the same tweaker setting I used for Quake. I experienced the same audio problems though as reported above. Villagetronic says : " Please save a Tweakfile into the folder where Carmageddon is located. The "Texture-RAM” needs to be set to "2 MB”. For your convenience MacMagic pro Tweaker offers a preconfigured setting for this game. It is possible that 2D overlays display some garbage."

Tomb Raider II

No problem. Frame rate was at the maximum possible like with all 3DFX cards , 30 fps. Villagetronic indicates " Works fine. However please choose "Lock video mode” in the control panel "Monitors & Picasso” or deactivate the movies within the Tomb Raider setup application. You can find the feature "Lock video mode" in the popup menu "MacPicasso Extras -> MacPicasso Utilities". Changing the resolution during game play with the F1 or F2 key does not work properly. This will be addressed in a future release."

Descent II 3DFx :

It runs fine but in order to make it work you will have to do the following : Set your monitor to 640x480, 75 Hz ( I did not try other resolutions) and open your macpicasson control panel and select Utilities. There, check the box called "lock video resolutions". If I did not do this, I was having an out-of-sync message.

I will test later this week Shadow warrior, Shattered Steel and F18 Korea 3DFX. Shadow warrior 3dFx I hear, has some problems.

Future Cop

Works fine. If you are using a MacMagic pro or an MP 850 and if you would like to play in 1600x1200 pixels, please use MacMagic pro Tweaker and save a Tweakfile into the folder where the Future Cop application is located. In this case the "Texture-RAM” needs to be set to "use 2D”. Please note that the desktop will be distorted after you quit the game. For your convenience MacMagic pro Tweaker offers a preconfigured setting for this game.

F/A-18 Hornet Korea

Works fine as long as you have the latest update of the game installed. Please check http://www.graphsim.com/ftp/ for the most recent version.

about the PRESETS within MacMagic pro Tweaker:

VillageTronic says : " For all games that need a special setting we knew about, we have designed this PRESET feature that makes it more easy for the user to configure a Tweakfile for. You do not have to change the individual needles. It is enough to just choose QUAKE i.e. with the Preset needle. You should notice that all the other needles automatically switch to the settings that are necessary to run Quake. When you have done that you just save the Tweakfile and there you go. "

I will test the MP 850 and the MP 750 in a 604e 200 Mhz later this week and update this page shortly after.

Related Links:

• MP850 Glide Reader Feedback
  (Original reader comments page)
• 3Dfx Message Boards
• 3D Gaming News (Daily news on Mac Games)