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LibMoto Notes/Issues from Users

7/11/2001 Update: A reader sent a note that Zdnet had a revised version of the old LibMoto extension at their downloads page. * However * - downloading that file despite the 5/23/2001 Zdnet page date shows it's from 1996 and nothing new. (But is named "MathLibMoto" last modified Feb 1996 vs Motorola's "LibmotoSh", dated May 1996.) LibMotoSh as many of you may know was an extension to boost FPU scores in MacBench and other benchmarks, but in my experience didn't do much to help actual applications performance. I stopped using Libmoto years ago due to other issues, some noted here.
12/2000 Update: I didn't think anyone was still using Libmoto with later OS versions (see comments below for why I haven't since OS 7.x) but this reader sent some interesting comments on using it with OS 9.04:

I didn't stumble upon your report on libmoto until recently. I've been using libmoto since OS 7.6, all the way until now, OS 9.0.4, and have never experienced problems related to it, until recently. I installed Intech's CD/DVD Speed Tools 5.6 and USB Overdrive 1.3.7, and immediately started getting random crashes whenever I accessed a hard disk or cd, and sometimes when using photoshop, netscape, or Quake 2. Upon removal, I first noticed slightly faster boot up, and faster response in the Finder. I also regained prior stability in said apps. The strangest effect was Netscapes speed, which appeared to have doubled. Pages load almost twice as fast, and java seems to startup quicker. How an extension that replaces a few math routines causes so much trouble still bewilders me. And to tell the truth, the only time I saw a significant performance boost from libmoto was when I used to play Doom and Marathon on my IIci."

As noted below, the primary gain seen from Libmoto was boosting MacBench FPU scores, and there were other issues noted even in older OS versions and some games.
Update - 5/99:
Steve Hofmann reports that using Libmoto resulted in rendering errors with Carmageddon II. Last year the same problems were reported here in 1997 with the original Carmageddon game.
Update - 2/98:
I no longer use LibMoto for reasons of accuracy, function support (sin and cos, but no tan for instance) and the fact that several games (Hornet 3.0 and Carmageddon for instance) have problems with it. The only time I enabled it is to compare Macbench scores with a past submission that used Libmoto, I'd never use it otherwise.
After months of use I can say I never saw any real boost in the applications I use (certainly nowhere near the 60% boost shown in MacBench). It seems that LibMoto was primarily designed to boost benchmarks scores.
For instance Libmoto only saved 4 seconds on a 5 minute, 44 second rendering in Byrce2, and other tests showed similar literally insignificant benefits. In many cases the application may have been compiled with an already optimized math library. I'm still searching for some real world app that benefits but the lack of full function support and accuracy issues make me caution anyone needing precison to *not* use Libmoto (don't use it to design bridges or buildings).
Quake picked up 1fps max [perhaps it uses only integer math, but Bryce does use floating point and showed no real gain (4 seconds out of 5+ minutes rendering time is within the run/run variation). Bottom line (for me) - it's of no use to me personally and considering the compatibility and accuracy issues I don't recommened you use it.
I suggest you read the LibMoto section of the following page: http://www.macledge.com/netgames/performance_Sys8.html (scroll down to the LibMoto section) [link no longer working unfortunately - and no way to search their site].
Update - 12/6/97:
A Motorola Engineer who worked on LibMoto has offered to help with problems and questions about LibMoto, but asked to be a silent partner - I will honor that request.

Update - 8/6/97:
A Reader sends us the MacBench 4.0 scores of his LibMoto vs PowerFPU test. As we expected the scores were identical and LibMoto is Free.

Although we have used LibMoto without problem on OS 7.5.5, 7.6, 7.6.1, and have seen it run fine on even a OS8 beta, we obviously do not have every extension and software application available, or the range of configurations out there. This page is to provide a "sounding board" for users who have had problems with LibMoto. If you know of a solution to this users problems, use the email link to suggest a fix.

LibMoto Problem Report #1

Eric Kurman reports:

Libmoto and Virex 5.6.6 control panel are not compatible. Libmoto disables it.

(Details forthcoming, original email report is on another machine)

LibMoto Problem Report #2

A reader that asked his name not be used reported:
*unedited, direct Email quotes used*
Downloaded and installed LIBMOTO on an 8500/132, 96mbRAM, OS 7.5.5 and immediately experienced "serious" conflict/crash w/ Kaleidoscope/Now Tabs/Windowshade (wasn't able to further id as I fully trashed copy of LIBMOTO on hard drive due to severe corruption).
My first nasty symptom was an inability to restart as "unknown application cannot quit", followed by Now Tabs unimplemented trap. Took several hours with Norton Utilities to restore full functionality(v3.24) and Conflict Catcher 3 only worsened things ie crashing with 80% of extensions and control panels moved to disabled folders AND INTO KALEIDOSCOPE SCHEMES FOLDERS!!!

We knew that adding a faster CPU required reinstalling Now utilities and that's why we don't use them. See below for a user reporting no problems in a similar configuration - but without Now Tabs.

Reader responds:
I have a very similiar setup with _no_ problems. PowerCenter132, 56mbRAM, OS 7.5.5. Kaleidoscope/Now Utilities/Tab Mania/Windowshade (Nortons, CC4, lots of other exts).

I don't like the flaky Now stuff myself, and will abandon it when I migrate to OS8. The only big diff I could see in the combo listed was the use of Now Tabs, which I didn't install.

LibMoto Problem Report #3

John Klayh reports:
*unedited, direct Email quotes used*

I've got another LibMoto conflict for you: Photoshop 4.0
Photoshop will run fine (for the most part) with Libmoto installed, except under the following circumstances:
- Photoshop cannot edit bitmaps with libmoto installed. Converting the bitmaps to greyscale is a workaround.
- When opening previously saved CMYK files, Photoshop introduces artifacting (random pixel noise) into the image. Removing libmoto solves the problem

Solved! . User was running OS 7.5.5, upgrading to 7.6.1 has resolved the problem he reported today via email. (We could not reproduce the problem running 7.6)

LibMoto Problem Report #4

Brian Beckett reports:
*unedited, direct Email quotes used*
In my experience, libmotosh is incompatible with Symantec's AutoDoubler/DiskDoubler product.
With libmotosh loaded I receive checksum errors when attempting to decompress files or launch applications. Upon removing libmotosh and rebooting, the problem is gone.
(This one was real fun to find at the time because it appeared to be a serious disk problem at first.)
I have a PowerWave 604/120 and this occurs under 7.5.x and 7.6.x.

Update: 5/30/97
Terrell gibbs Replies:
Unable to confirm reported conflict between LibMotoSh and AutoDoubler. With both AutoDoubler and LibMotoSh installed, no errors on decompressing AD-compressed files or launching AD-compressed applications.
AutoDoubler 2.05
CopyDoubler 2.07
System 7.6.1
PowerCenter 166

LibMoto Problem Report #5 (10/13/97)

"SL" reports:
*unedited, direct Email quotes used*
"If you play the game Carmageddon with Libmoto installed, a graphics glitch occurs where large sections of the terrain textures "drop out". Large black flickering patches appear in their place. Removing Libmoto and restarting fixes the problem.
7200/90 (601)
Mac OS 8
120 megs RAM, 1mb Powerlogix L2 cache

I use a special extensions set (a la Conflict Catcher) for games, and it is pretty minimal. Just the bare required Apple stuff, Kensington Startup for my mouse, gamesprockets...
This bug has been confirmed by at least 2 other people on comp.sys.mac.games.action."

Had a problem with LibMoto? Found a solution?
Email me with your story or solutions for posting here.

To learn more about LibMoto - read Motorola's excellent FAQ .
LibMoto for end users was originally available at: http://www.mot.com/SPS/PowerPC/support/rsw_customer_support/mac/libmoto/libmoto_reg_macuser.html, but that link is no longer valid. A reader in June 2001 found it still available at:
ftp://www.motorola.com/pub/SPS/PowerPC/software/mac/libmoto/

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Copyright © , 1997-2001.
No part of this sites content is to be reproduced in any form without written permission. All brand or product names mentioned here are properties of their respective companies.
Users of this web site must read and are bound by the terms and conditions of use.


LibMoto Notes/Issues from Users
7/11/2001 Update: A reader sent a note that Zdnet had a revised version of the old LibMoto extension at their downloads page. * However * - downloading that file despite the 5/23/2001 Zdnet page date shows it's from 1996 and nothing new. (But is named "MathLibMoto" last modified Feb 1996 vs Motorola's "LibmotoSh", dated May 1996.) LibMotoSh as many of you may know was an extension to boost FPU scores in MacBench and other benchmarks, but in my experience didn't do much to help actual applications performance. I stopped using Libmoto years ago due to other issues, some noted here. 12/2000 Update: I didn't think anyone was still using Libmoto with later OS versions (see comments below for why I haven't since OS 7.x) but this reader sent some interesting comments on using it with OS 9.04: I didn't stumble upon your report on libmoto until recently. I've been using libmoto since OS 7.6, all the way until now, OS 9.0.4, and have never experienced problems related to it, until recently. I installed Intech's CD/DVD Speed Tools 5.6 and USB Overdrive 1.3.7, and immediately started getting random crashes whenever I accessed a hard disk or cd, and sometimes when using photoshop, netscape, or Quake 2. Upon removal, I first noticed slightly faster boot up, and faster response in the Finder. I also regained prior stability in said apps. The strangest effect was Netscapes speed, which appeared to have doubled. Pages load almost twice as fast, and java seems to startup quicker. How an extension that replaces a few math routines causes so much trouble still bewilders me. And to tell the truth, the only time I saw a significant performance boost from libmoto was when I used to play Doom and Marathon on my IIci." As noted below, the primary gain seen from Libmoto was boosting MacBench FPU scores, and there were other issues noted even in older OS versions and some games. Update - 5/99: Steve Hofmann reports that using Libmoto resulted in rendering errors with Carmageddon II. Last year the same problems were reported here in 1997 with the original Carmageddon game. Update - 2/98: I no longer use LibMoto for reasons of accuracy, function support (sin and cos, but no tan for instance) and the fact that several games (Hornet 3.0 and Carmageddon for instance) have problems with it. The only time I enabled it is to compare Macbench scores with a past submission that used Libmoto, I'd never use it otherwise. After months of use I can say I never saw any real boost in the applications I use (certainly nowhere near the 60% boost shown in MacBench). It seems that LibMoto was primarily designed to boost benchmarks scores. For instance Libmoto only saved 4 seconds on a 5 minute, 44 second rendering in Byrce2, and other tests showed similar literally insignificant benefits. In many cases the application may have been compiled with an already optimized math library. I'm still searching for some real world app that benefits but the lack of full function support and accuracy issues make me caution anyone needing precison to not use Libmoto (don't use it to design bridges or buildings). Quake picked up 1fps max [perhaps it uses only integer math, but Bryce does use floating point and showed no real gain (4 seconds out of 5+ minutes rendering time is within the run/run variation). Bottom line (for me) - it's of no use to me personally and considering the compatibility and accuracy issues I don't recommened you use it. I suggest you read the LibMoto section of the following page: http://www.macledge.com/netgames/performance_Sys8.html (scroll down to the LibMoto section) [link no longer working unfortunately - and no way to search their site]. Update - 12/6/97: A Motorola Engineer who worked on LibMoto has offered to help with problems and questions about LibMoto, but asked to be a silent partner - I will honor that request. Update - 8/6/97: A Reader sends us the MacBench 4.0 scores of his LibMoto vs PowerFPU test. As we expected the scores were identical and LibMoto is Free.
Although we have used LibMoto without problem on OS 7.5.5, 7.6, 7.6.1, and have seen it run fine on even a OS8 beta, we obviously do not have every extension and software application available, or the range of configurations out there. This page is to provide a "sounding board" for users who have had problems with LibMoto. If you know of a solution to this users problems, use the email link to suggest a fix.
LibMoto Problem Report #1 Eric Kurman reports: Libmoto and Virex 5.6.6 control panel are not compatible. Libmoto disables it. (Details forthcoming, original email report is on another machine)
LibMoto Problem Report #2 A reader that asked his name not be used reported: unedited, direct Email quotes used Downloaded and installed LIBMOTO on an 8500/132, 96mbRAM, OS 7.5.5 and immediately experienced "serious" conflict/crash w/ Kaleidoscope/Now Tabs/Windowshade (wasn't able to further id as I fully trashed copy of LIBMOTO on hard drive due to severe corruption). My first nasty symptom was an inability to restart as "unknown application cannot quit", followed by Now Tabs unimplemented trap. Took several hours with Norton Utilities to restore full functionality(v3.24) and Conflict Catcher 3 only worsened things ie crashing with 80% of extensions and control panels moved to disabled folders AND INTO KALEIDOSCOPE SCHEMES FOLDERS!!! We knew that adding a faster CPU required reinstalling Now utilities and that's why we don't use them. See below for a user reporting no problems in a similar configuration - but without Now Tabs. Reader responds: I have a very similiar setup with _no_ problems. PowerCenter132, 56mbRAM, OS 7.5.5. Kaleidoscope/Now Utilities/Tab Mania/Windowshade (Nortons, CC4, lots of other exts). I don't like the flaky Now stuff myself, and will abandon it when I migrate to OS8. The only big diff I could see in the combo listed was the use of Now Tabs, which I didn't install.
LibMoto Problem Report #3 John Klayh reports: unedited, direct Email quotes used I've got another LibMoto conflict for you: Photoshop 4.0 Photoshop will run fine (for the most part) with Libmoto installed, except under the following circumstances: - Photoshop cannot edit bitmaps with libmoto installed. Converting the bitmaps to greyscale is a workaround. - When opening previously saved CMYK files, Photoshop introduces artifacting (random pixel noise) into the image. Removing libmoto solves the problem Solved! . User was running OS 7.5.5, upgrading to 7.6.1 has resolved the problem he reported today via email. (We could not reproduce the problem running 7.6)
LibMoto Problem Report #4 Brian Beckett reports: unedited, direct Email quotes used In my experience, libmotosh is incompatible with Symantec's AutoDoubler/DiskDoubler product. With libmotosh loaded I receive checksum errors when attempting to decompress files or launch applications. Upon removing libmotosh and rebooting, the problem is gone. (This one was real fun to find at the time because it appeared to be a serious disk problem at first.) I have a PowerWave 604/120 and this occurs under 7.5.x and 7.6.x. Update: 5/30/97 Terrell gibbs Replies: Unable to confirm reported conflict between LibMotoSh and AutoDoubler. With both AutoDoubler and LibMotoSh installed, no errors on decompressing AD-compressed files or launching AD-compressed applications. AutoDoubler 2.05 CopyDoubler 2.07 System 7.6.1 PowerCenter 166
LibMoto Problem Report #5 (10/13/97) "SL" reports: unedited, direct Email quotes used "If you play the game Carmageddon with Libmoto installed, a graphics glitch occurs where large sections of the terrain textures "drop out". Large black flickering patches appear in their place. Removing Libmoto and restarting fixes the problem. 7200/90 (601) Mac OS 8 120 megs RAM, 1mb Powerlogix L2 cache I use a special extensions set (a la Conflict Catcher) for games, and it is pretty minimal. Just the bare required Apple stuff, Kensington Startup for my mouse, gamesprockets... This bug has been confirmed by at least 2 other people on comp.sys.mac.games.action."

Had a problem with LibMoto? Found a solution? Email me with your story or solutions for posting here.
To learn more about LibMoto - read Motorola's excellent FAQ . LibMoto for end users was originally available at: http://www.mot.com/SPS/PowerPC/support/rsw_customer_support/mac/libmoto/libmoto_reg_macuser.html, but that link is no longer valid. A reader in June 2001 found it still available at: ftp://www.motorola.com/pub/SPS/PowerPC/software/mac/libmoto/
= Top of Page = = Back to WWW.XLR8YOURMAC.COM =

Copyright © , 1997-2001. No part of this sites content is to be reproduced in any form without written permission. All brand or product names mentioned here are properties of their respective companies. Users of this web site must read and are bound by the terms and conditions of use.