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1/16/03 Thursday's News: Story DetailReturn to News Page

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More Comments on iBook Combo drive
CDR Burn Speeds/Media/Drive Brands

Last Updated: 5/12/2003


I've gotten more iBook combo drive owner reports on the low CDR write speed issue noted several times here in the past. Below are tips from some owners that helped them but none seems to be a universal fix for everyone so far. Also included is info on the bundled CDR brand for those that asked about that.

Reader Reports: (most recent first)

Reset/Clear NVRAM Tip: I tend to doubt this is going to be a universal fix (since Zapping the PRAM wasn't for everyone even though one reader said it did earlier this year) but a reader sent a note about resetting the NVRAM (also a tip for other problems in the past like wake from sleep issues and problems w/Firewire ports - although not a fix for everyone with those problems)

" The slow burning problem on my new 14" 800 Mhz iBook occurred to me in both OS X and OS 9, I figured maybe there was a problem with the non-volatile memory.

I had solved a constant crashing from sleep problem with my wife's Quicksilver 933 with the following commands so I tried it on my iBook.
restart computer holding down Command-Option-O-F
at open firmware prompt, type these three commands followed by return:

    reset-nvram
    set-defaults
    reset-all

after pressing return on the last command, your computer will reboot

Since doing this, my computer began recognizing my Verbatim Datalifeplus 48x CDRs and I have successfully burned 6 cds at 16 times.
Who knows how long it will last?
(he later wrote)
I have burned 3 more Verbatim Datalife Plus 48x CD-Rs and got one slow one. (The second was slow, the last one I burned was fast again.)

I guess it seems a bit random, but before I reset the Open Firmware RAM, the burner refused to burn Verbatim CD-Rs at high speed for a whole week, no matter what I did and how many I tried.

Also, it really does seem to depend on the CD-R recognition because while it didn't accept Verbatim CD-Rs, it did accept Mitsumi and Kodak Gold CD-Rs during that week. Then it quit accepting Mitsumi and I got desperate.

So, even though Apple seems to be saying now that 4x burning is normal, this may at least be a step in the right direction until everyone complains enough to get them to release a firmware or driver workaround to the problem.
- Randall V. "

Remember actual burn rates are less than 16x since actual rates vary from the inner edge (slowest) to outer edge (fastest) of the disc. The avg. burn rate across the disc is not 16x with notebook drives at least, but he was able to select 16x as a burn rate consistently. If any other iBook combo drive owners find this solves their problem let me know.
(previous tips/feedback follows)


I would be surprised if this helped others (since I don't see why it would really change anything) but posting it as a FYI:

" Hi there thought I would pass on this information. I have had an iBook 800 for a couple of months now and have never experienced any of the slow burning speed issues... Until now that is. For some reason I got stuck at 4x's burning no matter what media was used!
However I've found a solution!!!!!
On a whim I used the Apple Hardware Test CD that came with my iBook and ran all the tests.... Then when I rebooted- voila!!! I got my 16X's burning back!!!! I don't know what this test did but it corrected it!
Please pass this info on to other iBook owners and urge them to try it! Looking forward to hearing if this works for other people!
Thanks,
Adam S"

Other past tips on this issue below didn't seem to be a universal fix.
Update - another iBook owner noted the above tip helped (strange - no idea why) - here's his email comments:

" I have the iBook 12" 800MHz with a Sony CRX820E combo drive. Although the drive was advertised as 16x, I have always been limited to 4x only. I read the success someone had with checking their computer with the Hardware Test disk, and did that as well. I have since been able to burn a hybrid Mac/PC CD at 16x.
--Chik "

However another iBook combo drive owner replied to that news posting saying running the System Test CD didn't help. (I have no idea why it would... but strange to get 2 reports it did...)

Zapping the Pram Helps? From a reader email - I don't know if this is a solution for every user having this problem though and some sony drive owners noted they didn't have the problem in emails sent me previously, although nothing seemed universally true on this issue.

" Just found in the Apple discussions:

    I was having the same problem with 4x burn speeds on my iBook (with Sony drive)
    On a whim, I reset the PRAM (Option-Command-P-R on startup, I held it until the computer chimed 4 times) and I just burnt a 76 minute cd in 4:58. :)

I tried this right now: seems to work. I tried to load a blank disc in Toast 6 times, each time I got 16x. After that I burned a CD in iTunes in less than 4 min = 16x again. Looks like your suggestion does the trick.
Best Regards
Michael"

Update - as I suspected, this doesn't seem to be a universal fix. Here's a reader reply to this post within hours of it being listed:

"Hello, Mike. I'm DJ.HAN. (reported here prev. on this problem)
I try zapping pram method. But that wasn't solution. My CD-R was almost 4X speed..."

(older info from past news pages follows)

I asked a reader that had reported the iBook Combo drive low CDR write speed issue in a past news page if he saw the same thing in OS 9 and OS X and what brand/firmware his combo drive had:

" I note no difference in behavior after using Toast 5.2 in OS 9. The same two possibilities (drive spins up, speed is okay and drive stays slow, speed is slow) are there.

The drive model is the Toshiba SD-R2212, and the firmware version ("Device Revision" in Apple System Profiler) is 1P19.
Luca "

Another iBook 800 owner wrote that his Sony Combo drive doesn't seem to have the problem:

" Mike,
My 800 Mhz ibook (BTO) uses the Sony CD-RW CRX820E. I've not seen any of the problems reported by other users. It burns great at 16x with all types of media. I am restricted to 4x when burning hybrid Mac/PC volumes using Toast's Data burning function.
Erik "

I'm not clear if this reader with the same sony drive model has the problem but wrote to ask.

" Hi - I wrote earlier to you on this concern, but as a matter of fact nothing REAL changed since. The mentioned thread in the Apple forum ibook/cd etc. (this one I assume-Mike) is meanwhile over 100 entires long and draws a not very convincing picture of Apples customer support. In short, there is a vast number of faulty drives out - I am sure, a good deal of users even didnt notice that - and Apple did not fix the issue until now. The story that topps them all is one person that got an exchange of the drive - he tested the "repair" still in the Apple store with the CDs sold in the store itself and got exactly the same result after the repair 4x! The only definive help that must be provided would be by means of a firmware upgrade - that is I am sure of.
BTW in my iBook is a SONY 820E with the firmware 1.3a (if I remember right, I am sitting at my G4 in this moment)
Regards
Michael "

Another reader commented that this has been reported from both Sony and Toshiba drives (which seems to rule out the drive/firmware as an issue - and if seen in OS 9 and OS X, what's left to blame - the media?)

" Hi mike!
Yeah, this has been a nightmare for everyone, including Apple. I have one of the slow-burn iBooks, and it appears to be a drive/firmware problem. I found that the iBook -can- burn at 16x...right after it wakes from sleep and is cold. After around 15-25 minutes of iBook use, it reverts back to 4x. To me, that sounds like a major heat problem - maybe the drive warps too much when the iBook is on, and the firmware params are set too low for the amount of flex the drive is experiencing? Is there such a setting?
Others on the boards have found that setting the iTunes burn speed to 16x from "Maximum allowed" and rebooting allows them to burn at 16x, which makes no sense but seemed to work for a few people.
And of course, it doesn't happen to every drive; there was one guy who bought two iBooks at the same store at the same time, and one of them exhibited the problem and one didn't. Go figure. Happens with both the Toshiba and Sony drives, though it seems there are more Sony owners on the board.
Anyhow, my Apple caseworker says Apple's working on the problem, and to keep an eye out for an update.
Manuel "

This is the 2nd report (at least - I have not read them all) from a Sony 820E owner noting he's not had the problem:

"Hi there.
I have never experienced any problems with CD-R media - Verbatim, Sony, even all "no name" brands I have tried burned with 16x in Toast 5.2. My iBook is a 12", 800 MHz, 32 VRAM, Combo machine.
This is the data of my iBook Combo Drive supplied by the Apple System Profiler. (to save space I'm just noting the important info-Mike)
Sony CD-RW CRX820E 1.3a (firmware version)
Linus "

Another Sony 820E owner report:

" Hello, my name is DJ.HAN. I'm korean mac user in korea (and I can't write english so well. Sorry)
My iBook specification is following as:
ibook 800/384MB Ram
OS : MacOS X 10.2.3
Drive - Sony 820e / firmware 1.3a
CD-ROM TOAST 5.1.4

I was setup memory buffer of toast at 64MB. And open iTunes preferences, setup cd writing speed as 16X.
I prepare toast image file, then insert Daiyoyuden(That's) CD-R media. OK, I can select 16X writing, push OK button. Toast start CD-R Burning. Well, It's so fast. Yeap! I success 16X writing.
But second try, Toast can't recognize media as 16X speed media! Only 4X is default. If I select 16X speed writing, Toast are automatically burn CD-R as 4X speed.
But, Well, wait. I have more funny story. I sleep the iBook - and awake it, retry the test. Oh, Toast can recognize CD-R Media as 16X speed media, too..!
Yes. I can use 16X recording only one time from iBook was awakened. If I want 16X writing, shut and open my iBook :-(

I reported my iBook CD-R problem to apple korea. But they have no answer. They don't have any plan of repair this problem... I was very disappointed.
DJ "

Another reader wrote regarding the bundled brand of Discs that some said were the only ones that burned at 16x rates. (A reader yesterday had asked about the bundled CDR brand since that was the only media he had used that wrote at faster speeds.)

" Mike,
Tell Luca that the media sent with a recent MDD PowerMac and my not so recent 800MHz TiBook were:
Verbatim, DataLifePlus CD-R. One came with 650MB rated at 1x-16x and the other came with 700MB 1x-24x Rated Media.
I like to use these since I have the best luck with them. Don*t really care about burn speed as I am looking for compatibility with consumer CD players and the Verbatim brand seem to work with all the players that I have.
Just FYI
Mike J. "

Another reader with the Toshiba drive sent a reminder on the zone recording speeds (most drives even for desktops above 16x only reach their 'max' rated speeds at the outer part of the disc - although as others have noted here - one of the issues is that they're not even offered an option to burn at the rated speed )

"Hi mike
I would like to add my contribution to the ibook CDRW reports.
I did a lot of tests and I think I know what the problem is.
First, my drive is the Toshiba SDR2212 with firmware 1P19.
The drive is a Z-CLV drive with a maximum speed of 16x, and actually it's speed is 8x, then 12x and 16x. In my case, when a CD is well recognized (sell later) it starts at 8x, and then after 1/3 if the CD it goes to 12x. It nevers goes to 16x. I think it's supposed to switch to 16x after 2/3 of the CD.
Now here's how the drive seem to fonction to find the max speed of a cd. when a CD is inserted it start spinning up gradually and at a certain point it spins down. It's like if the drives spins up the disk until it cannot read it due to vibrations, and then it kows the max speed. I noticed that the max speed depends of the brand of the CDR. (in some case the disk spins up to a very high speed) On most CDs, Now, the solution given by apple (start writing on disk just after inserting it) if (is? completely false. It's totaly random, sometimes after spinning up very high it won't burn at 8/12x, even if I start immediatly after. And sometimes it will burn at 8/12x after a long delay.

So in my opinion there are 2 problems with the drive:
1) it nevers goes up to 16x (it's impossible to burn at 16x on all the lenght of a CD but it's suppodes to do it at the end at least)
2) it randomly choose to burn only at 4x, ant this has nothing to do with the kind of the CD or the time it is inserted.

Note, the RW speed it 10x CLV for all the disk so why toshiba did only 8x for the begening of CDR?
Julien
( He later wrote)
in my case i am always able to select the 16x speed on toast. And also, when the drive is burning at only 4x speed it makes a strange noise."

Even 40-48x rated ('max') drives only avg under 35x writes speeds, but from the reports, it sounds like those with this problem are not getting near even the expected avg write speeds (or not allowed to select a speed rating in Toast for the drive max speed rating). I'd guess it may be related to the drive firmware/driver but that's just a guess.

(Here's a copy of the earlier item in Thursday's news)

Another iBook owner replied to the previous posts in Yesterday's and Tuesday's news with notes/tips on slow CDR write speeds with some brands of recent iBook combo drives. He comments on testing some of the past tips here on cdr insertion times and increasing toast cache size:

" I saw the recent submission regarding CDR speeds on the new iBooks so I decided to try some of the suggestions. I timed burns with the system clock rather than using Toast 5.2's bogus time indicator. (which seems to always be optimistic in the est. time remaining)

After setting the buffer to 64 MB, I put a 450 MB file in Toast to burn in simulation mode so as not to waste more CDs. I discovered that the drive would indeed display two different behaviors as noted by one of the readers - in one case, it would be slow for a few seconds after inserting it, then it would speed up briefly before slowing down again and staying slow. In the other case, it would start the same but instead of slowing down and staying slow, it would spin up to what seemed to be about half the maximum speed (it sounded about half as loud as the maximum speed heard just after inserting the CDR).

I found that if I hit the "Write Disc" or "Write Session" button (can't really see any difference between the two) [Write session allows adding more data later, disc space willing] while the disc was spinning at the half-maximum speed, it took about five minutes to write the 450 MB file, which represents about a 10x burn speed. If the disc was spinning at the low speed when I hit one of the write buttons, it went glacially slow the entire time, taking four seconds or more for each second to tick down on Toast's indicator. I am estimating a 4x or slower write speed in that case.

So I was able to get the burner to write a bit faster, but it still won't go at the maximum speed. Actually, near the end of one of the faster sessions, it seemed to be going at almost full speed, taking just over a second for each second to tick down on Toast's indicator. That makes me think that it's writing faster near the edge than it is near the center.

I suppose I can live with this, but I really don't want Apple giving me the runaround and saying that it's my media that is at fault. I've tried plenty of media - a Memorex and a number of KHypermedias, Imations and Verbatims, all rated for far above 16x. Perhaps they could at least tell me which media shipped with my iBook, because that's the only one that has burned at a full 16x the entire time. If I could obtain a spindle of the particular Verbatim type that came with my computer, that would be good enough for me. Perhaps I'll call Apple Support about that.
Thanks,
Luca R. "

I don't own an iBook, but if any recent iBook Combo drive owners have never seen this problem, let me know (include your Combo drive's brand and firmware version in reports. Apple System profiler will report the brand and the firmware version (as the "revision"). I'd also be curious if you see different results in OS 9.x vs OS X.


(Copy of Wednesday's news item on the problem follows)

A follow-up to yesterday's news item with another iBook owner report (and apple kbase doc link) on slower than rated speed writing with iBook combo drives:

"Hi Mike
I found something, your readers with an iBook800 might find useful.
When I insert a CD-R there are two possibilities depending on the drives mood. (my iBook is equipped with the toshiba drive) In both cases the drive spins up to full speed after inserting the disc. then it spins down a little bit and now things go random.

case a) Drive keeps spinning at very slow speed.
Then I've never been able to burn 16x, even if i choose 16x in toast. Try re-inserting the disc again.

case b) The drive spins up again.
If this happens, you should open a bottle of champaine (after pressing the write button.)

Maybe some of your readers could acknowledge this phenomenon.
Matthias "

Yesterday I repeated the past tip about inserting a CDR just before burning in Toast (which some said helped in the past to make higher speed selections possible) but some are still hoping for a firmware or other update for the Combo drives to address this.
Another reader sent a reminder on an old tip for Toast (if the disc recognition is not the speed limiter, this may help when the source drive or interface is limiting speeds)

" Upon reading this article, it brought back memories of our G4 733 machines here at the office. We received them with the Sony 8/4/24 burners and I first noticed the drives wouldn't burn at over 4x. Sound familiar?
I managed to get around this after cursing at Apple for a couple weeks and trying various CDR media types to no avail. Finally the solution I came up with was to increase the buffer size in Toast 5.1.4 to 64Mb, which we still have it set at. Seems to work fine with 8x burn speeds now. Haven't had a coaster in a few months.
Perhaps you've already tried this option, but I saw no mention of it in your article. Good luck.
Alex "

Worth a try but if this is a disc detection issue or drive firmware related that won't help. I always ran with a large Toast buffer (before OS X at least) which was help to avoid coasters in the days before buffer-underrun featured drives.

(Copy of Tuesday's news item on the problem follows)

"A few weeks ago I submitted a report on the Toshiba SD-R2212 combo drive which is in the new iBooks. I talked about how it has a 16x CD-R rating but it only burns CDs at 4x or so. Two others noted problems with it not burning CDs at the full 16x. You noted that 16x is the max speed and that it would only be achieved near the beginning of the burn when the drive doesn't have to spin as fast.

I just wanted to say that first of all, I also have used a Toshiba SD-R1202 desktop combo drive, which burns CD-Rs at 16x as well, and it definitely burns CDs faster than this one in my iBook.

Also, I have tried various different media types and they've all burned at a pitiful 4x speed, even the 48x Verbatim ones that I bought directly from Apple for the sole purpose of making sure I'd get the same media as came with the iBook. Well, the Verbatim Data-Life Plus that I got with the iBook burned at 16x but all the ones on the spindle I got from Apple burn at 4x. I have gotten that single piece of media to work at 16x, so I know what this drive is capable of. Finally, after more than a week of calling in and waiting, I got connected with a tech specialist who said that they are aware of the problem and that they're working on a fix for it. There is a lengthy discussion of it at the Apple Support area... Apple > Support > Discussions > iBook > CD/DVD drives.

I hope a firmware patch comes out soon, I am getting annoyed with the problem. I just wanted to let you know the full extent of this problem. I would be very interested to know what percentage of iBook owners are having this problem.
Luca R
(I later asked Luca if he saw the same thing in OS 9 and OS X and what brand/firmware his combo drive had)

I note no difference in behavior after using Toast 5.2 in OS 9. The same two possibilities (drive spins up, speed is okay and drive stays slow, speed is slow) are there.

The drive model is the Toshiba SD-R2212, and the firmware version ("Device Revision" in Apple System Profiler) is 1P19. "

There was a past workaround/tip for Toast when this issue was first noted - I think it was to insert the CDR just before burning if I remember correctly. I also saw an Apple Kbase doc on this issue recently, and found it after searching at Apple's support pages. However it basically notes to use high speed rated media.
PowerBook G4, iBook: Combo Drive Does Not Write CD-R Media at Maximum Speed.

" Combo drives in PowerBook G4 and iBook computers write for a longer time than expected, or do not offer the maximum write speed specified for the drive.

Solution
Use CD-R discs that are capable of writing at 16x speed. The 16x or maximum option should be selected, if available, prior to inserting a blank disc. If so, the Combo drive is behaving correctly.
Combo drives included with iBook and PowerBook computers can detect imbalances in the disc that are caused by poor production quality or the presence of labels and ink on the disc's surface. These imbalances can cause write errors. When blank discs are initialized, if imbalances are detected the writing speed is slowed to between 4x and 8x write speeds (depending on the magnitude of the imbalance) in order to reduce the potential for write errors."

If any readers spot a firmware or other update to address this - let me know.



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