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News Archive for Friday Jan. 2, 2009 (later added items first) Goto Current News Page
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2GHz G5 Tower owner notes on 2.7GHz CPU upgrade (problems) |
(Updated with later info/replies, notes, links etc.)
"Subject: G5 CPU Upgrade, Now Fans Go Crazy
I have a G5 with dual 2.0 processors. I found a pair of 2.7 processors on
Ebay and, after a lot more effort than I would have thought possible,
installed them and my machine is running. The processors are running fine and are appearing in system info as anticipated.
However, the fans are now at full blast for the entire time the system is on now. A Google search indicates thermal recalibration needs to be done with Apple System Diagnostic. (This is done even if Apple replaces a defective CPU with the same series/speed.-Mike) I got a copy, burned a CD, rebooted with it and the program tells me there were CPU errors and I need to run thermal recalibration. I do just that and after five minutes the machine simply
shuts down. Each time. (he later said they ran all day (w/fans at high speed) before the thermal recal attempt. Still not clear if that recal finished OK (or if there may have been several versions of apple's recal utility depending on the CPU/model)-Mike)
Did I miss something? Is there a problem? Should I hope I can find leaking
coolant and Apple will give me a new machine? Thanks for any tips you or
your readers may have.
(I asked Dave some questions including:
- Was your dual 2GHz LCS? (liquid cooled - 2.7GHz models were)
- Was the 2.7GHz CPU to heatsink fit good?
- Any more detailed info on the "CPU errors"? (did the thermal recal complete OK, or did it error out?)
- Any info in the logs that indicated thermal shutdown?
- If it will run long enough - have you checked reported CPU temps? (with utils like freeware temperature monitor))
I put some thermal paste on the new processors and now the machine won't boot with the new or old processors. (Too much thermal paste is worse than none. And did Apple use paste or a thermal gasket? - if a gasket and it's in good shape I'd just clean it and not use paste - if not in good shape remove it (carefully, not scratching contact surfaces).-Mike)
The 2.0GHz processors were not liquid cooled. (OK, that means an earlier logic board - from the initial comments on coolant leak I thought it was a later/LCS system.-Mike) Temperature gushe (?) said the 2.7s were running around 80C which I believe is very hot. I am seriously debating running to the apple store down the street and buying a new machine.
-Dave"
The 2.7GHz G5s used LCS - if you had a 2GHz air-cooled (like mine) that may be a factor (not just cooling/heatsink but the earlier logic board/rom, etc.) There's at least 3 different versions of the 970 CPU that I remember (original 970, die-shrink (90nm) 970FX in early 2004 and finally the Dual Core 970MP) and many different logic board versions. But since it won't boot now even with the original 2GHz CPUs installed (another thermal recal may be needed) I wonder if some damage was done during the upgrade. (And I wonder if the 2.7GHz were leftover parts from a failed G5 w/coolant leak.)
(FYI - he wrote on Monday that he's got the 2.7's installed again and running - although the fans are at high speed. He's going to try another thermal recal and report back again.)
Not sure what those 2.7GHz CPUs cost, but personally I'd not have bothered with them even if you had the same series logic board and LCS. Selling the G5 (especially if a reliable air-cooled model) and pooling the sale price + the 2.7GHz CPU's cost may have bought you a used/refurbished Mac Pro with a little boot.
If anyone has done a G5 CPU upgrade (successfully), let me know.
A reader reply to this post with more notes on differences in various models (original 970, later 970FX and final (late 2005 systems) Dual Core 970MP)
"
While I haven't personally tried upgrading a G5 system, I've done enough research to know that the hassle isn't worth it. Bricking a system is very possible so if you're not willing to take that risk, don't even think of it. One of the lesser known things about the G5 chip is that the processors do not initialize themselves when a system is booted, a service processor is used. This chip also handles the set up for thermal calibration and the changing of the front side bus speeds for low power operation. (the original catch-all page on PowerMac G5 info here mentioned this back in 2003 - from the original developer docs on the PowerMac G5 - called "Processor and bus slewing" (downclocking) - variable speeds depending on the Energy Saver Performance Option setting. It also stated if too high a temperature was detected, it would automatically reduce speeds (even if set to "highest performance" option).-Mike.) While the service processor can be an entirely different CPU, I believe Apple has integrated it into the northbridge chip on the PCI-X based G5's. In a pseudo related note, this is why there has been no overclocking of the G5 chips: everything needs to be done in software.
There are three versions of G5 chip: the plain PowerPC 970, the PowerPC
970FX (90nm, announced in early 2004) and the dual core PowerPC 970MP (announced in summer 2005). All 2.5 Ghz and 2.7 Ghz chips are of the PowerPC 970FX variety while there is a mix of PowerPC 970 and PowerPC 970FX chips at 1.8 Ghz and 2.0 Ghz speed grades. (the original 2003 G5s used the 970, FXs were used in later models (including some Xserve G5s (2004 article here)-Mike) There is a chance that all 1.6 Ghz models use the plain PowerPC 970 but I haven't extensively looked into in this. IBM changed a few things regarding power states between the plain PowerPC 970 and the PowerPC 970FX. (There's also notes on 970FX vdd limits in the Xserve G5s 2004 article here). There was also a (later rev) lower power 970FX announced at the same time as the 970MP (dual core).-Mike) Apple was able to accommodate those changes in the G5's firmware so that a
single motherboard can work with either PowerPC 970's or PowerPC 970FX's. I can see an issue arise when a PowerPC 970FX chips is plugged into a motherboard whose firmware lacks support for that version of the G5. Before attempting to try any sort of upgrade, it'd pay to upgrade the G5 motherboard's firmware. (unfortunately apple firmware updates usually have checks to prevent applying them to later/diffrent models.) To further confuse the issue, the processor modules themselves contain a small firmware chip for their individual thermal profiles and clock speeds. The PowerPC 970MP was only used in the ("Late 2005" series) PCI Express based systems. How the PowerPC 970MP handles thermal calibration is very similar to the PowerPC 970FX. However, due to the radical motherboard change alongside the introduction of the PowerPC 970MP, I would not attempt to use a PowerPC 970MP with a G5 motherboard that uses AGP. Apple had no reason to include support for the PowerPC 970MP chips on those early motherboards. (As the 970MP chip was not available when they did the earlier logic board designs, which have twin CPU sockets/bus design - not a single cpu w/2 cores. I would suspect the MP CPU has a different pin count/socket type also, but have not dug up the pkg/specs on it.-Mike)
IBM has a good technical library of the various G5 processors here:
http://www-01.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/products/PowerPC_970_and
_970FX_Microprocessors
Unfortunately, Apple does not publish the similar details for their
motherboards and chipsets.
-Kevin G."
That's the same IBM page linked in the article here from 2004 on Xserve G5 power usage (including 970FX CPU notes).
Here's links from the FAQ's Apple G5 section here to Apple's general specs/info pages on the various PowerMac G5 models
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